Colt on the Outs as Defense Department Opens Bids for Combat Rifles

Fox News ^ | May 25, 2011

[Durus]

As long as the tests are fair a modernised GI rifle is going to walk away with it.

[Durus]

An AK is great for shoving into a peasants hand to kill other peasants.

[donozark]

That may be true, but the AK has claimed thousands upon thousands of lives of Americans in uniform. And sadly, still is...

[Durus]

You can’t keep the enemy at rifle range forever. Once the enemy is up close it doesn’t matter what firearm they carry. We are probably lucky that the AK became so ubiquitous or we would have a much higher death toll.

[flowerplough]

A fair test?

Hackworth: “One of the bulldozers uncovered the decomposing body of an enemy soldier, complete with AK-47. I happened to be standing right there, looking down into the hole and pulled the AK out of the bog. ‘Watch this, guys,’ I said, ‘and I will show you how a real infantry weapon works.’ I pulled the bolt back and fired 30 rounds — the AK could have been cleaned that day rather than buried in glug for a year or so. That was the kind of weapon our soldiers needed, not the confidence-sapping M-16.”

[KeyLargo]

"What we need to do is inflict horrible disfiguring"

Would not work on Muslim women. They are already there.

[donozark]

I have no problem hitting what I aim at @ 200 meters. Beyond that? Kentucky windage and good luck. Polish Special Ops seems to do a pretty good job with them.

There was a poster here years ago who served in Sinai Desert with 101st. ABN DIV. Peacekeeping force. He worked with the regular Egyptian Army. He said their weapons maintenance was non-existent. I suspect their training as well was poor.

There are better weapons, there are worse weapons. If not maintained properly, no weapon is good. They all require it. Wish they didn't. Spent many, many hours cleaning weapons after hunting, shooting, and work.

[Durus]

Nice story. A ak-47 has steel bolt, milled steel (unlined) barrel, and a steel piston assembly that is not a sealed unit. After a year sitting in water it would have been a piece of rust assuming the bullets would even fire after being submerged for a year.

[Durus]

The m4 is basically a 400m carbine. The DoD wants the new rifle to be 600meter capable apparently. That definitly rules out the much vaunted super rifle known as the AK. It also rules out any piston shooting a .223/5.56 and some pistons rifles altogher.

[donozark]

Do you feel the M4 is in fact a 400 meter weapon? Accurate to that range, but I've read many reports it just isn't doing "the job." Never fired M4 so at a loss. But I understand USMC never went to the short barrel for reasons stated.

I own a Colt MT 6700. HB. Very accurate. Although I don't have access to range over 200 meters. Semi-auto of course. But would have no problem "bugging out" with it.

Never have liked those short barrels. Phone booth guns. Perhaps for urban SWAT or certain elite force utilization. But not on battlefield and certainly not from what I know of 'Stan by pics and talks with friends that were there.

[Durus]

It's not the best option for a 400meter weapon. Getting hits at that range is very possible with a 5.56 from an M4, but while the 5.56 is an accurate round, it's effectiveness depends heavily on fragmentation which doesn't happen reliably when it under a certain velocity. 400meters from a short barrel is under that velocity. Still the person you hit at 400meters with a 5.56 from a short barrel is going to have a really bad day.

6.5 Grendel from an 18" barrel is still supersonic at 1000meters. That will get the job done.