Is it "conservative" to send American jobs and technology to communist China?

("free trade" vanity)

[Cringing Negativism Network]

Once again, this week we see America declining again.

Our space program - once the finest in history, is dissolving, as our capability for manned space flights is brought to an end.

Now - our (second-best) fighter jet the F-35 is being criticized as too costly - after our finest one was already scuttled.

Our economy is shrinking. Our jobs are heading overseas, and our money is all flowing one direction - out of our country.

Funding the growth of everyone but the USA.

[sten]

communist china is an obvious threat to freedom loving people

they are also essentially slave labor... which is a threat to real labor anywhere in the world.

just let me know that we’re good with slavery and i’ll move on

[radpolis]

I don’t think it is fair to lump all conservatives in the same boat, but there are plenty of conservatives who will always choose their money over the interests of the United States and American people. They are ideologically wedded to Adam Smith and David Ricardo in the same way liberals are wedded to Marx and Engels. You can’t argue with a true believer.

What these clueless conservatives don’t get is that money and freedom don’t mean anything in the big scheme of things if you no longer have a country.

You can have free trade within the United States, you can have free trade with developed countries with the same laws and value systems, but you can’t have free trade with countries who lie, cheat, and steal as a matter of national policy.

[LA Conservative]

So let’s focus on the original issue you bring up, which I interpret as raising tariffs on Chinese imports. What is generally the result of raising tariffs?

Usually, the country who has to pay the tariffs will also raise tariffs, resulting in diminished American exports and higher consumer prices. Furthermore, China owns so much American debt, that if they were to rapidly dump dollars for gold, real estate, or other assets, what would happen to the value of the dollar? There are no other countries large enough to absorb the huge increase in monetary supply and the US Treasury has already brought us past the brink by their Ponzi scheme of buying their own debt.

China is also rapidly growing their military and have laid down the gauntlet by telling us to lay off of Pakistan, one of two major sources of Islamist instability, the other being Iran.

They are going to hang us with our own rope.

It seems like a checkmate on that front. The only thing that I can think of is too engage in a significant austerity program and cut the debt by at least a trillion dollars a year to demonstrate the US Gov’t is taking the debt seriously and will not signal default or devaluation of the dollar as a means of dealing with the debt.

It is a highly complex problem, and one not likely to be solved politically, due to the inefficiencies and corruption of government.

[CowboyJay]

"Furthermore, China owns so much American debt, that if they were to rapidly dump dollars for gold, real estate, or other assets, what would happen to the value of the dollar? There are no other countries large enough to absorb the huge increase in monetary supply and the US Treasury has already brought us past the brink by their Ponzi scheme of buying their own debt."

I think that what we're talking about here is already to some degree inevitable. China was a net seller of UST last year. They've already publicly stated their intent to have USD replaced as the primary reserve currency and for use in international transactions. Barring a return to the gold standard this will happen in the next 10 years. The inflation will hit, it's just a question of when. Inflation is compounded by increasing Chinese demand in all areas.

The biggest thing we can hope to gain by reinstituting tariffs is to provide some protection for manufacturers here in their home market. It's no surprise that the few thriving industries we have left here (pharma, DME, defense) are huge beneficiaries of protectionist policies. This country had tariffs in place on all imports until 1996, and it's not really a surprise that the domestic econonomy started heading south a few years after they were done away with.

'Free Trade', IMO is just sophistry to cover what is actually happening - that is our trade policy by default being put in the hands of the WTO and other organizations with a distinctly anti-American bias. It dovetails nicely with the rest of the globalist progressive agenda, and to me it's disappointing that so many 'conservatives' seem willing to turn a blind eye to the real-world effects in the name of ideological absolutism. I despise labor unions as much as the next Republican, but I would stop somewhere short of scuttling the entire US economy in order to be rid of them.

I think we agree that probably nothing will be done to address the real problems - thanks in no small part due to campaign donations and other soft money being funneled to US politicians by the Chinese. Apparently they have outbid us for the services of our own politicians.

[NCSEADOG]

The following is a quick rant. I don't have much time to rework it or edit it for which I apologize in advance. :-)

There seems to be a huge problem here in America.It is the “elephant in the middle of the room” that no major political leader is acknowledging. We are losing or have already lost jobs to other countries and no political leadership is admitting it is a problem.Not only is it “a” problem but it is “the” main problem with our current economy. It is so obvious that a loss of jobs cause a rise in unemployment. You may say “duh” to that simplistic observation but why is no one saying “duh” or even saying anything?

The loss of manufacturing jobs here in the Thomasville area of NC has led to loss of other jobs as well. One example:The people who were working in the plants had money to spend on cars etc.Since the departure of manufacturing jobs the local car dealerships for Ford & GM have closed.That is just one example of cause and effect.How anyone could argue honestly or without bias that it is good for Americans to lose their jobs to anyone much less to a potentially hostile country is beyond me.
The loss of manufacturing jobs through “our” governments policy changes is wrong.It is obvious,it is dangerous,it is not conservative in it's principles nor is it Patriotic or in the best interest of the American citizens.

It is not because of labor unions here as the plants were not unionized.It is not because of high taxes nor is it the high cost of operation in the US as those factors did not change and thus result in the loss of jobs.
What did change? When did the exodus begin? when we as a nation decided to force our companies and employees to compete with “third world” income and an unacceptable life style. Americans do not want to live in factories and be owned by the employer.We cannot maintain the life style we were used to and compete with people making a few dollars per day.That is never going to work.

The argument that it is jobs Americans will not do is a lie.The Americans were doing the work before the factories closed and before illegal aliens were hired.

The “Buggy Whip” factory argument is a lie and empty as well. Americans still use furniture,wear clothes and use electronics.The buggy whip industry went away because the need for them went away with the event of motorized vehicles...not because they could be made cheaper elsewhere.

That leads me to the question of why? Why has this been promoted and at best tolerated?
One reason is the “Perfect Storm” which has not only created the exodus of good manufacturing jobs but also the influx of illegal aliens to take many of the jobs that were remaining and yes I do think they are connected issues.

The “Perfect Storm” in my opinion is the fact that neither of the two major political parties truly want the “problem” to go away or to be solved. One side seems seems to despise America and jump at the opportunity to “spread the wealth” even to other nations. The other side says they are patriotic but do nothing to curtail the job loses as they are beholden to companies and contributors.
The issues of “free trade” & “illegal aliens” are related because both factors have lowered the quality of jobs and have put downward pressure on the wages of American workers.
Both issues also ignore the American citizen and the importance of protecting us..the US.Whether the job goes overseas or is taken by an illegal “worker” because they will work for much less (and several families live in one house) matters not to the American family who lost the paycheck.

Who will work to restore American dominance?
Why have we allowed the demise?
The first step to recovery is to admit we have a problem.Will we even do that?

[MASS-2 FAC]

Frank, I agree with you regarding the unions killing USA industry but there is another issue that needs to be put on the table.

Look at the revenue of the semiconductor industry as a percentage of the GDP during the mid-1980’s. We in the technology sector were the rising star in generating revenue for this country.

Politicians look at us and found out that they could trade out technology for campaign contributions from the Chinese.
We were forced to hire and train Chinese in all phases of the industry. Then came the “reverse brain-drain” back to China and Taiwan.

Now, they own the technology and we are begging for a piece of the action just to survive. BHO just gave out NASA program to China. Clinton sold out technology to China and Carter agreed to train Chinese engineers on how our semiconductor industry works.

Semper Fi...