Posted on 06/03/2011 7:29:16 PM PDT by Winstons Julia
“I used to be a Catholic but ...”
Yeah, right.
Examine yourself briefly.
Mea Culpa,...
These threads can often and easily take away the Grace God gives us.
Agreed. Without Grace, there is no salvation. So as you say, Luther’s “sola fide” is not correct, but “sola gratia” is. Actually there is a passage in the much maligned Council of Trent that makes that clear.
Curiously enough, Milton—who was anti-Catholic—gets it right in Paradise Lost. We have free will; but that free will is enabled by grace. Without the saving Sacrifice of Christ, we would have no truly free will. Freedom of choice was God’s gift to Adam and Eve; it was subsequently lost in the Fall, but given back to us again through the Sacrifice of the Cross.
So, Calvin was wrong on that point. We are not saved in spite of ourselves, like it or not; we are saved because we freely choose to do God’s will, enabled by His Grace and by what Milton calls God’s Umpire Conscience, which as St. Paul says, is “written in the heart” of all men.
Because God is a loving God, He wishes to be freely served, not forced to serve. Again quoting from Paradise Lost, in the words of the Archangel Gabriel, “freely we serve, / Because we freely love, as in our will, / To love or not.” But that freedom had to be restored to us by Christ’s Sacrifice on the Cross.
I’m sorry you were so poorly catechized. Your experience isn’t unique, unfortunately.
One side of my family is Roman Catholic and the other Lutheran although they’re mostly agnostic.
So where do you believe the INFANT GOES?
No works in the name of God are done without Grace. You might think it’s your effort, but that effort is the result of Grace. What you’ve done is open yourself up to receive the Grace, and the Grace then works through you. The misconception is to think you’re the doer. When you understand that it’s the Grace doing the work, and not you, then no egoic mistakes are possible. And usually, if you decide you are the doer after all, the Grace withdraws to get out of your way, and let you find out how much you can actually do on your own, LOL!
Grace is The Gift, our acceptance (or not) is our free choice. That is the first WORK we must do - to accept His Gift. It is often not the last work we must do.
Again, the topic under discussion is grace. Rather than making this into an empty fight about faith versus works, it would behoove us to point out that God’s grace is the source of both faith and works - neither faith nor good works can be ascribed to ourselves, but to God’s grace working in us. We are only ever cooperators.
See? Even on this thread I’m confused by what people are saying.
Are you quoting the Bible? Are you telling me what Catholics believe?
If I am a Protestant ... am I damned? I have had Catholics here on Free Republic tell me that there’s only ONE TRUE CHURCH and it’s theirs?
I don’t want to disrespect you Catholics... but don’t you think you are overcomplicating salvation?
Is there such a thing as “born again” Catholics?
Please excuse my exuberance and clarity ... but I was raised Lutheran... and became an agnostic/atheist .... Jesus saved me in 2005 when I found my stupid self on my knees begging...
I’m just shocked to read Catholics saying I’m NOT saved by that grace.
The Bible does not teach that there are different rules for salvation when one reaches the "age of reason" - whatever that is. Interesting theory but it is not biblical. No amount of works can save us. Nothing but the grace of Jesus Christ can save us. Works are important and should result from someone being a saved Christian however the works themselves do not save us.
I think the whole topic is academic. A saved Christian will benefit from grace and also have works. Cheap grace and ignoring works is not biblical either.
Here is the definitive analysis of the heresies of the Roman Catholic Church:
http://www.buzzardhut.net/index/htm/Dangers.pdf
This is kind of how the early “c”hurch felt about it.
Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
There are roughly 650 laws on the Old Testament. Roman Catholic canon law exceeds 1,700 rules. (It once exceeded 10,000).
As a Catholic you must keep canon law to be saved.
The New Testament teaches salvation by grace though faith - not by the keeping of laws.
Your friend wants to work his way to heaven?
Okay, then what is the amount of good works and which good works must be performed to enter heaven?
Can’t you “Tithe” your way in? (Like Elvis getting a black belt)
Why was it necessary for Christ to die for your sins and wash away your sins by his atonement?
Was Christ a good man? A philosopher? A rabbi?
Grace:
God’s
Riches
At
Christ’s
Expense
What do you care what Catholics believe? Are you upset over hearing what Buddhists believe? The question is, what do YOU believe? Because no matter what religion you end up wtih, only you can choose it.
A million people waving holy books in your face won't tell you a thing. Why even post a thread if you're not going to talk about YOUR considerations, to see where they stand? Everyone has questions, so what? And if Catholics think you're not saved, what does it matter unless you're a Catholic? After all, it's not like were talking about Muslims, who will murder you for disagreeing.
You're sounding like a troll, trying to create factional fights instead of treating age-old questions with the respect they deserve.
You are saved by Grace alone. Works are a response of faith to saving grace.
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