Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Man passes counterfeit coins at local pawn shop
The Gadsen Times ^ | June 28, 2011 | Lisa Rogers

Posted on 06/29/2011 11:24:45 PM PDT by OneLoyalAmerican

Police are looking for information about a man who sold 40 fake silver dollars to a pawn shop on Friday, Gadsden Police Capt. Regina May said.

The owner of Mal’s Pawn Shop on Broad Street bought the coins, which were sealed in a coin display book, for $1,120, May said. After the man who sold the coins left the store, the coins were more closely inspected and were determined to be steel, May said.

“They are counterfeit and look very authentic,” she said.

(Excerpt) Read more at gadsdentimes.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 06/29/2011 11:24:50 PM PDT by OneLoyalAmerican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: jiggyboy; PA Engineer; blam; TigerLikesRooster; Cheap_Hessian; CJinVA; Jet Jaguar; ...
goldbug ping


2 posted on 06/29/2011 11:28:03 PM PDT by OneLoyalAmerican (In God I trust, all others provide citations.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: OneLoyalAmerican

Since there is no such thing as a 1906 Morgan silver dollar, minting having been stopped in 1904 and resumed for only one year, 1921, I wonder if these are actual, or fake counterfeits?


3 posted on 06/29/2011 11:29:33 PM PDT by Attention Surplus Disorder (Tired of being seen as idiots, the American people went to the polls in 2008 and removed all doubt.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: OneLoyalAmerican

Total silver value was $1,080.36.


4 posted on 06/29/2011 11:30:50 PM PDT by OneLoyalAmerican (In God I trust, all others provide citations.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: OneLoyalAmerican
The shop owner should either invest in a jewelers loop or a magnate. Rick from Pawn Stars would never fall for this.


5 posted on 06/29/2011 11:34:14 PM PDT by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Attention Surplus Disorder

Greetings Attention Surplus Disorder:

In our case, we only purchase melt quality silver coins, so I plead ignorance. Coinflation.com melt value calculator indicates a field for 1878-1921 Morgan Dollars.

Cheers,
OLA


6 posted on 06/29/2011 11:34:51 PM PDT by OneLoyalAmerican (In God I trust, all others provide citations.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: OneLoyalAmerican

Steel? That’s odd. Who would do it in steel, and who would have the talent and equipment to duplicate a coin in steel?


7 posted on 06/29/2011 11:55:24 PM PDT by ltc8k6
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ltc8k6

Greetings ltc8k6:

Roger that. If someone went through all this effort, why not make some silver counterfeits of very rare coin mint dates?

One other thought. Perhaps these are a truly rare item. From a test run through actual dies that were supposedly destroyed.

Cheers,
OLA


8 posted on 06/30/2011 12:03:51 AM PDT by OneLoyalAmerican (In God I trust, all others provide citations.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: ltc8k6

Chinese are making fake US silver coins.


9 posted on 06/30/2011 12:10:07 AM PDT by Kirkwood (Zombie Hunter)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: OneLoyalAmerican

http://coins.about.com/od/worldcoins/ig/Chinese-Counterfeiting-Ring/


10 posted on 06/30/2011 12:11:29 AM PDT by Kirkwood (Zombie Hunter)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: OneLoyalAmerican

It’s Chumlee’s fault, I’m sure...


11 posted on 06/30/2011 12:25:19 AM PDT by richmwill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: OneLoyalAmerican
Why would anyone lay down a thousand plus bucks for coins sealed up where they couldn't be carefully inspected and why would the buyer only look closely at them after the seller has left the store?

Something’s a little off here.

12 posted on 06/30/2011 12:34:05 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kirkwood

Greetings Kirkwood:

Thanks for the link. UP until this point, I didn’t think it was profitable for the Chi-Coms to counterfeit silver coins.

Cheers,
OLA


13 posted on 06/30/2011 12:44:42 AM PDT by OneLoyalAmerican (In God I trust, all others provide citations.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change; richmwill
Greetings count-your-change:

Something’s a little off here.

Roger that. And paid above melt value too. Unless it was Chumlee; not gon'na happen.

Cheers,
OLA

14 posted on 06/30/2011 1:26:24 AM PDT by OneLoyalAmerican (In God I trust, all others provide citations.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: OneLoyalAmerican; jiggyboy

When did public servant (taxpayer supported) Police Depts. become the Pawn Shop Cops?

They should arrest the owner/buyer for 3rd Degree Felony stupidity. If you advertise that you buy gold and such then go to the hardware store and buy a magnet, maybe $2.00. Next step is to buy a gram/dwt scale, $100.00.

Even if the seller knew they were counterfeit, no charges can be filed against him.


15 posted on 06/30/2011 1:51:48 AM PDT by panaxanax (0bama >>WORST PRESIDENT EVER.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: panaxanax
Greetings panaxanax:

When did public servant (taxpayer supported) Police Depts. become the Pawn Shop Cops?

Most likely since July 5, 1865 when Title 18 of the United States Code, Section 3056 was effective.

Cheers,
OLA

16 posted on 06/30/2011 2:14:07 AM PDT by OneLoyalAmerican (In God I trust, all others provide citations.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: OneLoyalAmerican

I’m aware of that, thank you.

There are millions of ‘copy’ or ‘replica’ coins on the market. Many come in display frames for exhibit. Some are marked “copy”, some are not.

If the seller represented the coin display as genuine with certified (fake) appraisal or like documents, then he could likely be charged for a number of crimes. If he just walked into the store and said “how much do you want to give me for this?”, he will be in the clear.

The Pawn Shop owner/buyer probably saw the ‘key dates’ and was immediately so overcome with greed that he didn’t check them out further. His fault. He then whined to the police when one of his magnetic business cards flew across the room and stuck to the display.

He also probably called them when he found out that the ‘original’ Mona Lisa he bought last year from a homeless guy was actually a copy!


17 posted on 06/30/2011 2:52:09 AM PDT by panaxanax (0bama >>WORST PRESIDENT EVER.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: OneLoyalAmerican
Question:
Do you think a few rolls of 90% silver coins (Morgan and Peace) are wise to keep on hand for barter in case the SHTF?
I thought newer .999 silver dollars would be more commonly counterfeited and older ones would be safer.
Any thoughts?
18 posted on 06/30/2011 4:29:47 AM PDT by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is the War Room".)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: OneLoyalAmerican

Maybe it’s like the Superman episode where Professor Pepperwinkle turns metal into gold- but it turns out the entire process costs more than the gold itself.


19 posted on 06/30/2011 4:37:06 AM PDT by Krankor (i)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Attention Surplus Disorder

-——or fake counterfeits?-——

The question is were they really counterfeit? If they were not copies of actual coins were they counterfeit? Were they not just objects, say objects of art?


20 posted on 06/30/2011 4:45:37 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. N.C. D.E. +12 ....( History is a process, not an event ))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: OneLoyalAmerican

A couple years ago I bought four “genuine imitation” silver dollars from a man who wandered into my favorite watering hole. They were pretty good fakes but I had been a collector before I had to sell. I talked him down to $20 for all four. I knew they weren’t real but like the designs, particularly the “Trade Dollar”.
When I arrived home I checked eBay, they were selling for $6-10 each.


21 posted on 06/30/2011 4:47:50 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Psalm 73

If counterfeits are a concern to you I would suggest junk silver common date dimes, quarters, and halves. Check out the forums on
http://www.tfmetalsreport.com/
for some additional information and discussions that might help you make your decision. Good luck.


22 posted on 06/30/2011 4:52:10 AM PDT by rusty millet
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: panaxanax
There are millions of ‘copy’ or ‘replica’ coins on the market.

One that really gets to me is the TV ad for a “tribute” gold coin – the Buffalo one ounce gold coin. According to the ad they are no longer minted because our government ran out of the .999 fine blanks.
I had no problem buying a real one (2010 mint date).
The only noticeable difference is that the mint date is on the reverse side on the fake and on the obverse on the real coin.

23 posted on 06/30/2011 4:59:53 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Attention Surplus Disorder

“...I wonder if these are actual, or fake counterfeits?”

If it’s made to look like a real coin and has “United States of America” and “One Dollar” on it, then it’s probably in violation of some statute.


24 posted on 06/30/2011 5:08:47 AM PDT by PLMerite (Shut the Beyotch Down!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: panaxanax

If the silver buyer can’t tell the difference between steel and silver by simply dropping the coin and listening to the ringing sound they deserve to get taken.


25 posted on 06/30/2011 5:25:15 AM PDT by Rebelbase
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: OneLoyalAmerican

Shame on the pawn shop owner for not doing his due diligence.

A friend of mine was in a coin shop and some lady brought in some coins. The owner got real excited—here is a 1914-D Lincoln Cent—for which he was ready to shell out money for. It was in circulated condition.

My friend says “ Hey, I haven’t seen a 1914-D penny in years, can I see it?”

My friend examines it and says “This isn’t genuine. This is a 1944-D; the first four has been chiseled to become a one, and the mark is plainly evident, plus you can see the ghost of the parts of the “four” that are missing; and the VDB under the bust has been scratched off; in 1914, there were no initials under the bust, having stopped after 1909, and resuming in 1918.”

The owner thanked my friend, and admitted he was just excited about the find that he didn’t do the obvious—check it out VERY CLOSELY.

The lady said she found it in her cash register tray at work.

I am still trying to figure out how you can make a Morgan Dollar out of steel. When a silver round is struck, the silver can “flow” into the die, resulting in a full design. Steel is harder,and doesn’t flow; it has to be stamped. It can’t possibly look like a real Morgan Dollar—the details would probably be too stark from the stamping. The reeding on the edge would be difficult to do in steel. Plus steel is not the same color as a silver coin.

Morgans are being counterfeited in China in tremendous numbers, as well as other gold and silver coins.


26 posted on 06/30/2011 5:45:40 AM PDT by exit82 (Democrats are the enemy of freedom. Sarah Palin is our Esther.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kirkwood; OneLoyalAmerican

Thanks for the replies.

Why out of steel? Seems like a lot of trouble. Steel isn’t easy for your average joe to stamp. You’d need a different die too, I’d think.

The only way this gag will work is with the colleting book of coins.

A steel copy just won’t weigh enough if you try to pass it off one at a time.

With the book, you can’t tell about the weight unless you go to the trouble to take a coin out.

Of course the article may be inaccurate when it says the fakes were steel...


27 posted on 06/30/2011 11:37:56 AM PDT by ltc8k6
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: bert

“-——or fake counterfeits?-——

The question is were they really counterfeit? If they were not copies of actual coins were they counterfeit? Were they not just objects, say objects of art?”

That is kind of the conundrum I posed. Out of say a hundred people, how many would recognize an apparent Morgan silver dollar as a coin that was once (and still is) a unit of US currency? How many would recognize it as a 90% silver disk containing .7734 tr oz of silver? I would say many, most.

Now what if I handed that same hundred people what apparently was a 2011 Morgan silver dollar?

I think (I sure hope) that a very large number of those people would understand that Morgan dollars haven’t been minted for many decades, so they would assumedly know that such a coin could not be legit.

But it takes a modest amount of specialized knowledge to know that Morgans were NOT minted from 1905 through 1920. Now I believe the legal threshold for counterfeit items is “likely to confuse”. A 1906 SD is clearly in that category.

Sort of an interesting thought experiment...if you got the spare neurons sitting around!


28 posted on 06/30/2011 12:11:01 PM PDT by Attention Surplus Disorder (Tired of being seen as idiots, the American people went to the polls in 2008 and removed all doubt.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: PLMerite

Probably true. “Meant to confuse” or “likely to confuse”...and any sort of “one dollar” inscription and it would certainly be c/f.


29 posted on 06/30/2011 12:12:50 PM PDT by Attention Surplus Disorder (Tired of being seen as idiots, the American people went to the polls in 2008 and removed all doubt.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Psalm 73
Greetings Psalm 73:

Do you think a few rolls of 90% silver coins (Morgan and Peace) are wise to keep on hand for barter in case the SHTF?

My $0.06 (which today is two, 1909-1982 Lincoln Copper Cents):

1. Even a melt quality US coin is instantly recognizable.
2. Unlike paper, US silver coins will never be totally worthless.
3. If SHTF today, a US (Morgan and Peace) silver dollar at today's price purchases at least $26.85 worth of goods and services.
3a. $1.00 US silver purchases an hour of skilled labor worth $26.85 an hour.
3b. Livestock hoof weight is fairly constant, caprine averages $0.25 US silver per pound hoof weight; $4.00 silver purchases a live 16 pound wether.
3c. $0.20 silver purchases 20 loaves of livestock feed grade bread at my local bakery resale shop.

Your mileage may vary,
OLA

30 posted on 06/30/2011 6:52:15 PM PDT by OneLoyalAmerican (In God I trust, all others provide citations.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: OneLoyalAmerican
Thanks for the reply - that was my thought process going in - also have small qtys of lesser US silver coinage.
1/2-way through "One Second After" - some serious food for thought.
31 posted on 07/01/2011 9:56:15 AM PDT by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is the War Room".)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: OneLoyalAmerican

Thanks for keeping up the pings. I am in Italy, deployed, and the internet is not widely available.


32 posted on 07/01/2011 10:59:48 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: OneLoyalAmerican

Thanks for keeping up the pings. I am in Italy, deployed, and the internet is not widely available.


33 posted on 07/01/2011 10:59:48 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: OneLoyalAmerican

Thanks for keeping up the pings. I am in Italy, deployed, and the internet is not widely available.


34 posted on 07/01/2011 10:59:52 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ltc8k6

the chinese?


35 posted on 07/01/2011 5:43:37 PM PDT by RC one (DO NOT RAISE THE DEBT LIMIT!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: RC one

I’d think they’d just counterfeit the bills directly. Maybe that’s harder now with the new bills?


36 posted on 07/01/2011 6:28:00 PM PDT by ltc8k6
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: RC one

The Chinese ones don’t appear to be steel.

http://home.comcast.net/~reidgold/draped_busts/chinese.html

Steel seems to me to just be too hard to try to work with this way. I’m going to go with the idea that the fakes are Chinese, but the article is incorrect about them being steel.


37 posted on 07/01/2011 6:32:10 PM PDT by ltc8k6
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: ltc8k6
The Chinese are counterfeiting everything these days and they're getting good at it. Whenever I see a counterfeit/forgery issue, they come to mind first. a cache of ancient Chinese coins were recently found and I expect to be seeing counterfeits turn up for sale in the various china town shops and such.
38 posted on 07/01/2011 9:38:48 PM PDT by RC one (DO NOT RAISE THE DEBT LIMIT!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: OneLoyalAmerican

http://cgi.ebay.com/4-Morgan-Replicas-1900cc-1901cc-1902cc-1903cc-ExactSize-/220804224005?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item3368f51405
Copies readily available do not think they are ferrous metal they look real good till you find the tiny copy stamped on the back. Maybe the casinos had them made for the slots.


39 posted on 07/05/2011 4:12:25 AM PDT by scottteng (Proud parent of a Life scout)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson