Man passes counterfeit coins at local pawn shop

The Gadsen Times ^ | June 28, 2011 | Lisa Rogers

[OneLoyalAmerican]

Police are looking for information about a man who sold 40 fake silver dollars to a pawn shop on Friday, Gadsden Police Capt. Regina May said.

The owner of Mal’s Pawn Shop on Broad Street bought the coins, which were sealed in a coin display book, for $1,120, May said. After the man who sold the coins left the store, the coins were more closely inspected and were determined to be steel, May said.

“They are counterfeit and look very authentic,” she said.

[R. Scott]

A couple years ago I bought four “genuine imitation” silver dollars from a man who wandered into my favorite watering hole. They were pretty good fakes but I had been a collector before I had to sell. I talked him down to $20 for all four. I knew they weren’t real but like the designs, particularly the “Trade Dollar”.
When I arrived home I checked eBay, they were selling for $6-10 each.

[rusty millet]

If counterfeits are a concern to you I would suggest junk silver common date dimes, quarters, and halves. Check out the forums on
http://www.tfmetalsreport.com/
for some additional information and discussions that might help you make your decision. Good luck.

[R. Scott]

There are millions of ‘copy’ or ‘replica’ coins on the market.

One that really gets to me is the TV ad for a “tribute” gold coin – the Buffalo one ounce gold coin. According to the ad they are no longer minted because our government ran out of the .999 fine blanks.
I had no problem buying a real one (2010 mint date).
The only noticeable difference is that the mint date is on the reverse side on the fake and on the obverse on the real coin.

[PLMerite]

“...I wonder if these are actual, or fake counterfeits?”

If it’s made to look like a real coin and has “United States of America” and “One Dollar” on it, then it’s probably in violation of some statute.

[Rebelbase]

If the silver buyer can’t tell the difference between steel and silver by simply dropping the coin and listening to the ringing sound they deserve to get taken.

[exit82]

Shame on the pawn shop owner for not doing his due diligence.

A friend of mine was in a coin shop and some lady brought in some coins. The owner got real excited—here is a 1914-D Lincoln Cent—for which he was ready to shell out money for. It was in circulated condition.

My friend says “ Hey, I haven’t seen a 1914-D penny in years, can I see it?”

My friend examines it and says “This isn’t genuine. This is a 1944-D; the first four has been chiseled to become a one, and the mark is plainly evident, plus you can see the ghost of the parts of the “four” that are missing; and the VDB under the bust has been scratched off; in 1914, there were no initials under the bust, having stopped after 1909, and resuming in 1918.”

The owner thanked my friend, and admitted he was just excited about the find that he didn’t do the obvious—check it out VERY CLOSELY.

The lady said she found it in her cash register tray at work.

I am still trying to figure out how you can make a Morgan Dollar out of steel. When a silver round is struck, the silver can “flow” into the die, resulting in a full design. Steel is harder,and doesn’t flow; it has to be stamped. It can’t possibly look like a real Morgan Dollar—the details would probably be too stark from the stamping. The reeding on the edge would be difficult to do in steel. Plus steel is not the same color as a silver coin.

Morgans are being counterfeited in China in tremendous numbers, as well as other gold and silver coins.

[ltc8k6]

Thanks for the replies.

Why out of steel? Seems like a lot of trouble. Steel isn’t easy for your average joe to stamp. You’d need a different die too, I’d think.

The only way this gag will work is with the colleting book of coins.

A steel copy just won’t weigh enough if you try to pass it off one at a time.

With the book, you can’t tell about the weight unless you go to the trouble to take a coin out.

Of course the article may be inaccurate when it says the fakes were steel...

[Attention Surplus Disorder]

“-——or fake counterfeits?-——

The question is were they really counterfeit? If they were not copies of actual coins were they counterfeit? Were they not just objects, say objects of art?”

That is kind of the conundrum I posed. Out of say a hundred people, how many would recognize an apparent Morgan silver dollar as a coin that was once (and still is) a unit of US currency? How many would recognize it as a 90% silver disk containing .7734 tr oz of silver? I would say many, most.

Now what if I handed that same hundred people what apparently was a 2011 Morgan silver dollar?

I think (I sure hope) that a very large number of those people would understand that Morgan dollars haven’t been minted for many decades, so they would assumedly know that such a coin could not be legit.

But it takes a modest amount of specialized knowledge to know that Morgans were NOT minted from 1905 through 1920. Now I believe the legal threshold for counterfeit items is “likely to confuse”. A 1906 SD is clearly in that category.

Sort of an interesting thought experiment...if you got the spare neurons sitting around!

[Attention Surplus Disorder]

Probably true. “Meant to confuse” or “likely to confuse”...and any sort of “one dollar” inscription and it would certainly be c/f.

[OneLoyalAmerican]

Greetings Psalm 73:

Do you think a few rolls of 90% silver coins (Morgan and Peace) are wise to keep on hand for barter in case the SHTF?

My $0.06 (which today is two, 1909-1982 Lincoln Copper Cents):

1. Even a melt quality US coin is instantly recognizable.
2. Unlike paper, US silver coins will never be totally worthless.
3. If SHTF today, a US (Morgan and Peace) silver dollar at today's price purchases at least $26.85 worth of goods and services.
3a. $1.00 US silver purchases an hour of skilled labor worth $26.85 an hour.
3b. Livestock hoof weight is fairly constant, caprine averages $0.25 US silver per pound hoof weight; $4.00 silver purchases a live 16 pound wether.
3c. $0.20 silver purchases 20 loaves of livestock feed grade bread at my local bakery resale shop.

Your mileage may vary,
OLA

[Psalm 73]

Thanks for the reply - that was my thought process going in - also have small qtys of lesser US silver coinage.
1/2-way through "One Second After" - some serious food for thought.

[Jet Jaguar]

Thanks for keeping up the pings. I am in Italy, deployed, and the internet is not widely available.

[Jet Jaguar]

Thanks for keeping up the pings. I am in Italy, deployed, and the internet is not widely available.

[Jet Jaguar]

Thanks for keeping up the pings. I am in Italy, deployed, and the internet is not widely available.

[RC one]

the chinese?

[ltc8k6]

I’d think they’d just counterfeit the bills directly. Maybe that’s harder now with the new bills?

[ltc8k6]

The Chinese ones don’t appear to be steel.

http://home.comcast.net/~reidgold/draped_busts/chinese.html

Steel seems to me to just be too hard to try to work with this way. I’m going to go with the idea that the fakes are Chinese, but the article is incorrect about them being steel.

[RC one]

The Chinese are counterfeiting everything these days and they're getting good at it. Whenever I see a counterfeit/forgery issue, they come to mind first. a cache of ancient Chinese coins were recently found and I expect to be seeing counterfeits turn up for sale in the various china town shops and such.

[scottteng]

http://cgi.ebay.com/4-Morgan-Replicas-1900cc-1901cc-1902cc-1903cc-ExactSize-/220804224005?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item3368f51405
Copies readily available do not think they are ferrous metal they look real good till you find the tiny copy stamped on the back. Maybe the casinos had them made for the slots.