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'Extraordinary' genetic make-up of north-east Wales men
BBC ^ | 19 July 2011 | BBC

Posted on 07/23/2011 7:26:30 PM PDT by Palter

Experts are asking people from north-east Wales to provide a DNA sample to discover why those from the area carry rare genetic make-up.

So far, 500 people have taken part in the study which shows 30% of men carry an unusual type of Y chromosome, compared to 1% of men elsewhere the UK.

Common in Mediterranean men, it was initially thought to suggest Bronze Age migrants 4,000 years ago.

Sheffield University scientists explain the study at Wrexham Science Festival. 'Quite extraordinary'

A team of scientists, led by Dr Andy Grierson and Dr Robert Johnston, from the University of Sheffield is trying to find out how and why this has come about.

Dr Grierson is leading the talk at Glyndŵr University on Tuesday and wants to speak to people with ancestry in the region to discover what is known about their family history - and to provide them with an opportunity to contribute a DNA sample to the project.

"The number of people in north-east Wales with this genetic make-up is quite extraordinary," he said.

"This type of genetic make-up is usually found in the eastern Mediterranean which made us think that there might have been strong connections between north-east Wales and this part of Europe somewhere in the past.

"But this appears not to be the case, so we're still looking to find out why it's happened and what it reveals about the history of the region."

(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.co.uk ...


TOPICS: History; Science
KEYWORDS: basques; bronzeage; dna; epigraphyandlanguage; godsgravesglyphs; greatormecoppermine; helixmakemineadouble; iberia; ireland; spain; unitedkingdom; wales; welsh
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See also: Eastern Mediterranean marker in Northeast Wales
1 posted on 07/23/2011 7:26:32 PM PDT by Palter
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To: SunkenCiv
Common in Mediterranean men, it was initially thought to suggest Bronze Age migrants 4,000 years ago.

ping.

2 posted on 07/23/2011 7:27:04 PM PDT by Palter (Celebrate diversity .22, .223, .25, 9mm, .32 .357, 10mm, .44, .45, .500)
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To: Palter

DNA has a difficult time lying.


3 posted on 07/23/2011 7:29:29 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: blam

Ping.


4 posted on 07/23/2011 7:34:06 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Paladin2

A possibility is that those from the Mediterranean area were interbreeding in Wales all those years ago.


5 posted on 07/23/2011 7:35:35 PM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
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To: Palter
There's a lot to be said about the incredible DNA of Welsh women as well!

Mark

6 posted on 07/23/2011 8:02:48 PM PDT by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

More likely they travelled from the near east to Wales.


7 posted on 07/23/2011 8:10:25 PM PDT by Silver Sabre
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To: MarkL

whatever CZJ’s genes might be she’s made great use of them!


8 posted on 07/23/2011 8:12:57 PM PDT by Enchante (May 1, 2011: Death to Bin Laden, Death to Bin Laden..... al Zawahiri is next!)
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To: MarkL

whatever CZJ’s genes might be she’s made great use of them!


9 posted on 07/23/2011 8:13:04 PM PDT by Enchante (May 1, 2011: Death to Bin Laden, Death to Bin Laden..... al Zawahiri is next!)
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To: Palter
Common in Mediterranean men, ....

1.)The Romans conquer Britannia and Mediterranean genes are introduced.

2.) Centuries pass. The Roman Empire collapses and Britannia is invaded by multiple waves of Germanic and Scandinavian invaders.

3.) The surviving Romano-Britons are pushed out of the indefensible lowlands but are able to mount a successful defense in the mountainous regions of Wales just as the Asturians mounted a successful defense against the invading Moors in their mountainous region of northwest Spain.

4.) Mediterranean genes survive in Wales and are concentrated in Wales.

10 posted on 07/23/2011 8:16:25 PM PDT by Polybius
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To: Silver Sabre

Searching for the Welsh-Hindi link

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4328733.stm

A BBC journalist is urging helpful linguists to come forward to help solve a mystery - why the Hindi accent has so much in common with Welsh.

Sonia Mathur, a native Hindi speaker, had her interest sparked when she moved from India to work for the BBC in Wales - and found that two accents from countries 5,000 miles apart seemed to have something in common.

It has long been known that the two languages stem from Indo-European, the “mother of all languages” - but the peculiar similarities between the two accents when spoken in English are striking.

{End of excerpt. More at link.}


11 posted on 07/23/2011 8:19:09 PM PDT by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: AncientAirs

Y haplogroup E1b


12 posted on 07/23/2011 8:27:27 PM PDT by Domestic Church (AMDG...)
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To: Polybius

Roman civilisation started its climb maybe 500 BC or so at its oldest. This study says these genes were introduced circa 2000 BC.


13 posted on 07/23/2011 8:32:07 PM PDT by AlmaKing
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To: Polybius

Seems logical to me.


14 posted on 07/23/2011 8:32:33 PM PDT by Conservative4Ever (Man the pitchforks and torches.......let the revolution begin)
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To: James C. Bennett

One thing that always interested me was how Hindi speakers pick up English so easily and speak with idioms smoothly Whereas, my Asian wife and her cousins have a really hard time putting sentences together. The Hindi/English languages must be constructed similarly or we just think in the same patterns.


15 posted on 07/23/2011 8:35:13 PM PDT by AlmaKing
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To: Palter
These are Brits doing the study, right?

They are burdened by "the English filter" ~ a well known phenomenon where any idea not already accepted by English speakers is simply rejected out of hand and a new answer sought.

I suppose that stimulates more study, but it overlooks a lot of things already known from sources the Brits don't wish to study.

With respect to Eastern Mediterranean sources for y-chromosome purposes it doesn't matter if that didn't happen 4,000 years ago since, in fact, it did happen about 2500 (average) years ago.

The otherwise discredited sources are the Galician version of the Annals of the Kings. This is yet another version of history that was maintained by Gaelic speakers in Northern Spain BEFORE the Milesians invaded Ireland.

The next step in that invasion was when the Irish moved to Great Britain. That happened before the arrival of the Romans.

The Romans were in the habit of bringing foederati to conquered lands ~ so you could have some Eastern Mediterranean types brought to Great Britain at that time ~ remember, it only takes ONE GUY to pull this off.

16 posted on 07/23/2011 8:42:00 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: AlmaKing
Yes:


17 posted on 07/23/2011 8:45:19 PM PDT by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: James C. Bennett

Thanks. I’ve heard of the Proto-Indo-European root but have never seen a tree put together like that. I like it and have saved it.


18 posted on 07/23/2011 8:50:34 PM PDT by AlmaKing
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To: James C. Bennett

there are also similarities between Hinduism and the ancient Celtic religions. example, the “white horse”.


19 posted on 07/23/2011 8:57:50 PM PDT by Elendur (the hope and change i need: Sarah / Colonel West in 2012)
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To: AlmaKing
Roman civilisation started its climb maybe 500 BC or so at its oldest. This study says these genes were introduced circa 2000 BC.

I saw that but the hypothesis seemed to be "Iron Age migration" without considering other factors or explaining why they though the DNA was already there before the Roman conquest at the time of Clauduis.

Maybe the geneticist was used to thinking in terms of peaceful migrations and not in terms of strategic military retreats, desperate military stands and the defensibility of montainous regions as compared to the lowlands.

In Spain, at the shock of the Moorish invasion in 711 A.D., the Visogothic DNA that had been concentrated in central and southern Spain, within a couple of years, became concentrated in Asturias. This had nothing to do with peaceful migrations and everything to do with strategic military retreats and the defensibility of the Cantabrian Mountains.

Iberian Peninsula DNA Project .... In 711 CE, a Moorish Umayyad army from North Africa invaded Visigoth Christian Spain. .... Many of the ousted Gothic nobles took refuge in the unconquered north Asturian highlands. From there they aimed to reconquer their lands from the Moors: this war of reconquest is known as the Reconquista.


20 posted on 07/23/2011 9:00:28 PM PDT by Polybius
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To: AlmaKing

No problem!

There are better charts online, and on some of the old FR threads, though.


21 posted on 07/23/2011 9:09:44 PM PDT by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: Elendur

There was a thread here a couple of months ago, regarding horse burials in Eastern Europe, which followed old Vedic burial instructions to the T, according to it.


22 posted on 07/23/2011 9:14:36 PM PDT by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: Palter
"This type of genetic make-up is usually found in the eastern Mediterranean which made us think that there might have been strong connections between north-east Wales and this part of Europe somewhere in the past. "But this appears not to be the case

Sounds like they might want to rethink that.

23 posted on 07/23/2011 9:30:54 PM PDT by bgill
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To: MarkL
There's a lot to be said about the incredible DNA of Welsh women as well!

Just damn!

24 posted on 07/23/2011 11:12:06 PM PDT by Talisker (History will show the Illuminati won the ultimate Darwin Award.)
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To: Domestic Church

Thanks for the haplogroup. I wondered.


25 posted on 07/23/2011 11:53:35 PM PDT by Havisham
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To: James C. Bennett

I agree.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOgALTFzFbQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdyC1BrQd6g


26 posted on 07/24/2011 2:25:34 AM PDT by Bon mots ("When seconds count, the police are just minutes away...")
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To: Palter; decimon; martin_fierro; blam; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1010RD; 21twelve; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks Palter.
30% of men carry an unusual type of Y chromosome... Common in Mediterranean men
Joooooos!

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


27 posted on 07/24/2011 6:17:02 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: James C. Bennett

Where does the Austrian language fit on that tree?


28 posted on 07/24/2011 6:33:31 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Somewhere in Kenya a village is missing its idiot)
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To: MarkL
CZJ does like somewhat Mediterranean you have to admit.
29 posted on 07/24/2011 6:45:51 AM PDT by beebuster2000
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

German is what is spoken in Austria.


30 posted on 07/24/2011 6:54:35 AM PDT by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: Domestic Church
"Y haplogroup E1b"

You can tell a fellow genealogist a mile away. :)

Catfish 1957(r1b1a2)

31 posted on 07/24/2011 7:17:59 AM PDT by catfish1957 (Hey algore...You'll have to pry the steering wheel of my 317 HP V8 truck from my cold dead hands)
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To: James C. Bennett

He was joking at Obama’s expense, since our idiot president spoke of the “Austrian language” a few years ago.


32 posted on 07/24/2011 7:35:17 AM PDT by Pharmboy (What always made the state a hell has been that man tried to make it heaven-Hoelderlin)
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To: Palter

Lost tribe?


33 posted on 07/24/2011 7:37:33 AM PDT by null and void (Day 913. When your only tools are a Hammer & Sickle, everything looks like a Capitalist...)
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To: catfish1957; Domestic Church
blam:

yDNA = R1b1b2
mtDNA ="V"

My grandmother (Smith) is related to Cheddar Man.

34 posted on 07/24/2011 7:42:44 AM PDT by blam
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To: Palter

English And Welsh Are Races Apart

35 posted on 07/24/2011 7:46:38 AM PDT by blam
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To: Palter

English And Welsh Are Races Apart

36 posted on 07/24/2011 7:46:54 AM PDT by blam
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To: AlmaKing
The Hindi/English languages must be constructed similarly or we just think in the same patterns.

I've worked with a lot of Indians over the years. It's not just a language thing. We do think in the same patterns. The engineering solutions to problems are indistinguishable. Solutions that Chinese, Vietnamese, Philippine or Japanese engineers come up with, although perfectly valid, just 'feel' different. Don't know why.

What I find even more interesting is how close the senses of humor are in both cultures.

37 posted on 07/24/2011 7:48:37 AM PDT by null and void (Day 913. When your only tools are a Hammer & Sickle, everything looks like a Capitalist...)
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To: James C. Bennett
Exact quote:

"It was interesting to see that political interaction in Europe is not that different from the United States Senate. There's a lot of I don't know what the term is in Austrian, wheeling and dealing."

38 posted on 07/24/2011 7:50:35 AM PDT by Pharmboy (What always made the state a hell has been that man tried to make it heaven-Hoelderlin)
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To: James C. Bennett

Experts don’t necessarily agree:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr7zhnctF4c


39 posted on 07/24/2011 8:09:24 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Somewhere in Kenya a village is missing its idiot)
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To: AlmaKing
The Hindi/English languages must be constructed similarly or we just think in the same patterns.

One of the more striking and convincing evidences of the affinity of Indo-european languages that I've ever seen is the paradigms for the personal pronoun in Anglo-Saxon and Sanskrit.

That not withstanding, educated Indians learn English from an early age and English has been the linga franca of the subcontinent for the last two centuries.

40 posted on 07/24/2011 8:15:59 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Somewhere in Kenya a village is missing its idiot)
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To: AdmSmith; agrace; AnalogReigns; Cacique; caryatid; Celtjew Libertarian; CobaltBlue; ...
Genetic
Genealogy
>> PING <<
Send FReepmail if you want on/off GGP list
Marty = Paternal Haplogroup O(2?)(M175)
Maternal Haplogroup H
GG LINKS:
African Ancestry
DNAPrint Genomics
FamilyTree DNA
GeneTree
Int'l Society of Genetic Genealogy
mitosearch
Nat'l Geographic Genographic Project
Oxford Ancestors
RelativeGenetics
Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation
Trace Genetics
ybase
ysearch
The List of Ping Lists

h/t to SunkenCiv

41 posted on 07/24/2011 8:34:16 AM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: Palter

Praise be to Allah, this proves the Palestinians were in existence way before the Jews but were driven out of their homeland to Wales by the invading oppressors.

All your Welsh women are belong to us.


42 posted on 07/24/2011 8:35:13 AM PDT by wildbill (You're just jealous because the Voices talk only to me.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets; Pharmboy

Oh... LOL!

Thanks!


43 posted on 07/24/2011 8:49:40 AM PDT by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: blam

bump for later


44 posted on 07/24/2011 9:01:29 AM PDT by Ditter
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To: James C. Bennett

Nice tree, but I can’t find Albanian amongst the branches. Am I overlooking something?


45 posted on 07/24/2011 9:20:48 AM PDT by Hawthorn
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To: Palter

John McWhorter makes a good case that the Phoenecians exercised a strong influence on the proto-Germanic language. So if they left grammar and/or vocabulary, why not DNA? See:

http://books.google.com/books?id=UGOMfGDT3KkC&pg=PT105&lpg=PT105&dq=phoenicians+%22proto-germanic%22&source=bl&ots=9esVNCKZXa&sig=8HCgOvFcFZ1i2eYz05Sv3G0_Zdw&hl=en&ei=RkMsTrOKJcjm0QGk7rzkDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=phoenicians%20%22proto-germanic%22&f=false


46 posted on 07/24/2011 9:28:04 AM PDT by Hawthorn
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To: Hawthorn
Indeed.

See :Sea Peoples invade: 1192–1190 BC

47 posted on 07/24/2011 9:35:52 AM PDT by Palter (Celebrate diversity .22, .223, .25, 9mm, .32 .357, 10mm, .44, .45, .500)
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To: Palter

Compare the Welsh to the Irish and Scots.


48 posted on 07/24/2011 9:38:19 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: MarkL

Gavin Henson, Welsh Rugby Player ..

This is a thread about Welsh MEN DNA....

Gethin Jones

49 posted on 07/24/2011 9:52:08 AM PDT by EBH ( Whether you eat your bread or see it vanish into a looter's stomach, is an absolute.)
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To: Polybius

...and you didn’t even have a half-million dollar research grant.


50 posted on 07/24/2011 9:58:21 AM PDT by americanophile ("this absurd theology of an immoral Bedouin, is a rotting corpse which poisons our lives" - Ataturk)
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