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House is not serious about spending.
C-span | 07-28-11 | Sporke

Posted on 07/28/2011 12:27:32 PM PDT by Sporke

We are screwed.

I was watching C-span and the House had a vote on an amendment to cut 11 million from the National Endowment for the Arts.

It failed because 55 Republicans joined all the Democrats in voting against it.

If we can't cut 11 million from a worthless program, what hope do we have?


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: general; politics; spending

1 posted on 07/28/2011 12:27:40 PM PDT by Sporke
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To: Sporke
It's not the correct vehicle to attack our favorite targets. The intention is to get something passed that protects Republican interests in the long run, and still deals with the debt situation.

Steny Hoyer is currently speaking and there can be no doubt that he still wants NEW TAXES (that's the Democrat "shared sacrifice" mantra).

The next step ~ in the 2012 budget and appropriations bills is to ZERO OUT those targets. FY 2012 begins in two months.

2 posted on 07/28/2011 12:31:41 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Sporke
Politics in our Constitutional Republic is anevolutionary, not revolutionary, process

Primary the 55 GOPers and replace them with Tea Partiers in 2012

3 posted on 07/28/2011 12:31:56 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (Giving politicians more tax money is like giving addicts free drugs to cure their addiction)
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To: Sporke
It's not the correct vehicle to attack our favorite targets. The intention is to get something passed that protects Republican interests in the long run, and still deals with the debt situation.

Steny Hoyer is currently speaking and there can be no doubt that he still wants NEW TAXES (that's the Democrat "shared sacrifice" mantra).

The next step ~ in the 2012 budget and appropriations bills is to ZERO OUT those targets. FY 2012 begins in two months.

4 posted on 07/28/2011 12:31:56 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Sporke
Politics in our Constitutional Republic is a revolutionary, not revolutionary, process

Primary the 55 GOPers and replace them with Tea Partiers in 2012

5 posted on 07/28/2011 12:32:06 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (Giving politicians more tax money is like giving addicts free drugs to cure their addiction)
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To: Sporke

You’re right, Social Security and Medicare benefits simply have to be reduced, and the congress is too cowardly to admit it. 11 million from the NEA is not going to solve the problem.


6 posted on 07/28/2011 12:32:58 PM PDT by babble-on
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To: Sporke

It is time for an end to the republican party. Can’t even cut 11 million dollars. There is no group in Washington that cares about cutting expenses.


7 posted on 07/28/2011 12:33:18 PM PDT by Founding Father (The Pedophile moHAMmudd (PBUH---Pigblood be upon him))
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To: Sporke

We can’t expect “artists” to creat new ways to denigrate religious symbols with bodily excretions unless the government adequately compensates them now, can we?..........


8 posted on 07/28/2011 12:33:57 PM PDT by 230FMJ (...from my cold, dead, fingers.)
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To: Sporke

Oh my! These Marxists aren’t serious at all. Why dont these millionaires reach into thir own pockets and pay for the left-wing propaganda that populates NPR and the NEA?


9 posted on 07/28/2011 12:34:04 PM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: Sporke

While I’m no fan of the NEA, 11 million in the grand scheme of things is like scolding your spouse for buying a Snickers bar because it affects your IRA contribution.


10 posted on 07/28/2011 12:34:43 PM PDT by RockinRight (If we're "teabaggers" then they're "d-baggers.")
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To: Sporke
I saw that, I just made comment on another thread about this about 2 minutes ago. EVERY bill maintained spending or increased it!

What a joke!

11 posted on 07/28/2011 12:35:55 PM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: Sporke

Washington is STILL playing politics with America’s future.
Until that changes, nothing about this issue will change.

What needs to happen is some real damage to bring focus on Washington, the Marxist America-hater in the Oval Office, and the overall malfeasance and incompetence of the Congress.

1. We need to suffer a significant downgrade.

2. Regardless of the massive blame-game and tons of lies from Washington and its lapdog media, that will start in Washington, focus will come to bear on those that are responsible. Until these criminals who have destroyed our economic system are held accountable, nothing will happen — but then it will happen. I think the people will get mad enough to clean house in Washington and get real serious about it.

Let the downgrades begin....


12 posted on 07/28/2011 12:37:31 PM PDT by EagleUSA
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To: Sporke

If these people don’t see the frivolous nature of continued funding for something like The National Endowment for the Arts...then NO progress will be made in reducing the debt.

If I am plagued with creditors and expect rough times ahead... I don’t go out and buy a new Cadillac!


13 posted on 07/28/2011 12:38:14 PM PDT by SMARTY (A claim for equality of material position can be met only by a government with totalitarian powers.)
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To: Sporke

I have been watching the amendments and am amazed at the large number of wasteful amendments that are passing. There is a group of about 50 Republicans who consistently vote with the Dems. Does anyone know who these Rinos are?


14 posted on 07/28/2011 12:38:57 PM PDT by robert14
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To: Sporke

Posting this as many places as possible...

Watch for this: If we do NOT get downgraded after this new Boehner bill passes, gets “modified” in the Senate and passes, and then passes the House again, you will have definitive proof that we were gonna get suckered all along. Moody’s and S&P said that to avoid a downgrade, a plan on par with Ryan’s original bill or at minimum CCB must be passed. This new bill is nowhere close to those and with Senate mods, it will be worse. If the downgrade does not happen, we got hosed, man, we got hosed.


15 posted on 07/28/2011 12:39:47 PM PDT by Eagle of Liberty (Shaking My Head on a daily basis)
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To: Sporke

The Republicants want to spend taxpayers money just as badly as the Dems do. The Dems are just more open about it.
This whole debt limit manufactured crisis is just that, a manufactured crisis............which neither side wants to waste.
When the dust settles, they will both wink and nod that they put one over on old US again.......


16 posted on 07/28/2011 12:41:06 PM PDT by Red Badger (PEAS in our time? Obama cries PEAS! PEAS! when there is no PEAS!..........................)
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To: RockinRight

You are right on point. One of my favorite economic advisors, Tealeye, says her budget consists of, “If I want it and I have money, I buy it. If I don’t have money, I don’t want it anymore.”

The fact is, if you do not fully fund your IRA, you don’t have any business wasting money on a Snickers Bar (my personal favorite candybar), neither does your spouse.

Priorities. Fund needs, then wants. Stop funding when you run out of money.

Contrary to popular opinion, Congress does not spend like a drunken sailor. I know I was one. A drunken sailor stops spending when he does not find any money in his pocket.


17 posted on 07/28/2011 12:41:28 PM PDT by Rodentking (There is no God but Yahweh and Moses is his prophet - http://www.airpower.blogspot.com/)
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To: Sporke

If the tea party folks don’t get all 3 branches we are screwed, the same old same old has died...


18 posted on 07/28/2011 12:45:59 PM PDT by aces
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To: Sporke
Tough talk, little action.

Democrats are willing to let August 2nd come and go unless they get their way. It's standard operating procedure for them since their agenda and political power trumps everything else. In this fight, we should be playing with the same rules. If Democrats refuse to accept any spending cuts without tax increases, then let August 2nd happen and let the chips fall where they may.

This is a battle which must be had, sooner than later.

There is going to be pain. The longer we let the spending disease spread, the more ineffective and painful the eventual cure will be.

19 posted on 07/28/2011 12:47:17 PM PDT by Rational Thought
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To: Founding Father

Keep things in perspective. $11 million is 0.00027% of yearly federal budget. Social security + Medicare + medicaid = 60% of federal yearly budget.

Point is don’t get worked up over ridiculously small items. If you add all such ridiculously small items, it would’nt even amount to 1% of federal budget. Whereas the entitlements are growing at more than double the inflation rate. They will bankrupt us (technically we already are bankrupt if the federal gov’t was a private company) much faster. A $11 million item will take 200,000 years to bankrupt us.


20 posted on 07/28/2011 12:56:30 PM PDT by repub4ever1 (Capitalism is not perfect, but it beats all other systems hands down.)
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To: Founding Father

Sad but true!


21 posted on 07/28/2011 1:04:53 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (When the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn (Pr.29:2))
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To: repub4ever1

I’m not worked up over anything. I always expect the republicans to cave; they always do; nothing new under the sun.


22 posted on 07/28/2011 1:10:01 PM PDT by Founding Father (The Pedophile moHAMmudd (PBUH---Pigblood be upon him))
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To: RockinRight

I agree with you that 11 million is nothing, in the grand scheme of things, but if they can’t even cut 11 million, from a program like that (a want, not a need), then what WILL they cut????

I get tired of politicians saying “if we cut this program, it would only save .05% of the budget” or some drivel like that, when in reality, if they would cut the little things, eventually it would add up to real savings.


23 posted on 07/28/2011 1:10:44 PM PDT by Sporke (USS-Iowa BB-61)
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To: muawiyah

Why play the game of picking and choosing winners and losers? Pick a percentage and order the cut across the boards. Let the department heads and middle managers decide how they are going to get to their funding allocation.


24 posted on 07/28/2011 1:31:41 PM PDT by wolfman23601
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To: Founding Father

Agreed on old republicans, not so true of the newer Tea Party inspired republicans. We need to recycle all the fiscal RINO’s out.


25 posted on 07/28/2011 1:32:29 PM PDT by repub4ever1 (Capitalism is not perfect, but it beats all other systems hands down.)
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To: RockinRight
While I’m no fan of the NEA, 11 million in the grand scheme of things is like scolding your spouse for buying a Snickers bar because it affects your IRA contribution.

I did some checking this week and found that the federal portions of the budgets of the National Endowment for the Arts, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, and other "arts" programs adds up to almost $1 billion. To paraphrase Darth Sidious, "Cut them. Cut them all."

26 posted on 07/28/2011 1:41:42 PM PDT by Conservative_Rob
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To: wolfman23601
Playing personnel games is peanuts. You have a single agency ~ Education ~ with $78,000,000,000 in grants!

That's a target to hit.

Simply going after the employees won't touch the grants since the Executive will take existing authority and transfer it to another "agency" ~ maybe the National Security apparatus.

Outside of Food Stamps, USDA (Department of Agriculture) has over $100,000,000,000 in grants and "program" funds available every year.

Just two agencies and I can come up with GRANTS equal to half the entire federal employee salary totals.

You guys spend 10 times the effort in getting rid of a handful of federal government workers.

If you are serious about cutting the cost of government GO AFTER THE GRANTS!

27 posted on 07/28/2011 1:44:03 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: babble-on
People believe they have PAID FOR Social Security and Medicare.

They see no reason why either should be cut as long as you have Department of Transportation giving grants for USELESS high speed passenger rail service. Ray LaHood announced another nearly $10 billion in grants this week.

Education continues to give grants, as does Labor and Commerce and State Department!

28 posted on 07/28/2011 1:47:40 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Sporke

just sent Boehner and my rep. a letter. hold the line.


29 posted on 07/28/2011 1:50:33 PM PDT by RC one (DO NOT RAISE THE DEBT LIMIT!)
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To: robert14
They are mostly pretty Conservative regular Republicans who understand full well that even without named cuts the Senate Democrats are going to REJECT THIS BILL.

That's what Harry Reid told us yesterday and today.

The Democrats will accept nothing less than a major tax increase, and they want the Republicans to give it to them.

The amendments didn't pass because they simply do not achieve the objective, and would otherwise be used as an excuse by Democrats to vote against this rather innocuous bill.

The logic here is kind of like "Hamburger Hill". Nobody wins, but somebody can lose. The Democrats can see that they are trapped and will attempt to withdraw, but the Republicans have some aerial bombing to do in 2 months when FY 2012 begins.

30 posted on 07/28/2011 1:54:51 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Eagle of Liberty
As an out for S&P the House already passed "the Ryan Plan" as a proposed budget for FY 2012.

It's already out there.

Now, for the relevance of S&P, NO ONE uses them as a reference for purchasing US securities ~ maybe your company's securities, but not that of this country. Just doesn't happen.

Besides we have VAST resources which includes 1/3 of the total US land mass. Our federal government's actual wealth DWARFS that of almost every country in the world ~ and is the ultimate asset that backs our credit worthiness.

31 posted on 07/28/2011 2:01:06 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: repub4ever1

If you were a private company that owed $1000 and had property worth $100,000, you would hardly be bankrupt


32 posted on 07/28/2011 2:03:21 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Sporke

America is finished. Face it.


33 posted on 07/28/2011 2:10:50 PM PDT by Logical me
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To: muawiyah
Playing personnel games is peanuts. You have a single agency ~ Education ~ with $78,000,000,000 in grants!

Perhaps, but the NEA is joined at the hip with the teachers' unions and a symbol for those grants.

34 posted on 07/28/2011 2:12:01 PM PDT by trebb ("If a man will not work, he should not eat" From 2 Thes 3)
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To: muawiyah

So you want to cut 100% of all programs that collectively amount to rounding errors in the budget numbers, but leave alone the fraudulent ponzi schemes set up by avowed socialists like Roosevelt and LBJ. What does that make you?


35 posted on 07/28/2011 2:25:13 PM PDT by babble-on
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To: babble-on

You’re the guy who wants to take Social Security payments and spend them on useless highspeed passenger rail systems.


36 posted on 07/28/2011 2:51:47 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

One has to be smoking something really good to think Federal gov’t has assets 100,000 times national debt. The entire world assets amount to only $140 Trillion.

http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2007/01/worlds_assets_h.html

And anyone with Econ101 knows assets are worth only what can be sold on the market. According to your post the Feds have 100,000 times assets of the debt. Even taking the current debt of $14.3 Trillion x 100,000 = 1,400,000 Trillion required to sell federal assets. Only God has that much money. Even the milky way galaxy may not add up to 1,400,00 Trillion.

Like I said one has to be smoking something extraordinary to come up with such fantasy numbers.


37 posted on 07/28/2011 7:44:31 PM PDT by repub4ever1 (Capitalism is not perfect, but it beats all other systems hands down.)
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To: repub4ever1
Do you have any idea what a dozen hydrogen warheads goes for on the open market?

I thought not.

We have assets ~ vast resources ~ all untapped ~ others manufactured.

Our Department of Defense could easily be put to work collecting tribute!

38 posted on 07/28/2011 7:46:55 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Logical me

“America is finished. Face it.”

You’re preachin to the choir. Part of me is amazed how politicians get away with the same crap, year after year after year, and still get reelected. It’s amazing, and amazingly sad if ya think about it.

I honestly think in the not to distant future, our politicians will be unable to return to their districts, because of fears for their lives. We all deserve part of the blame for electing the PsOS, but they have gone above and beyond the call of duty as far as enriching themselves at our expense.

I’m as ready as I can be for the upcoming revolution. It won’t be fun, but it’ll be necessary, and it might even have a happy ending. :)


39 posted on 07/28/2011 7:47:05 PM PDT by Sporke (USS-Iowa BB-61)
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To: repub4ever1
i detect some adult beverages ~ $1000 divided into $100,000 is 100, not 100,000!

But that was just an example.

The point was about PROPERTY. If you are short cash you get a mortgage against your property. Goes on every day.

40 posted on 07/28/2011 7:49:18 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Maybe you can help me out.....what gives the Feds the right to ANY state land?


41 posted on 07/28/2011 7:50:18 PM PDT by Sporke (USS-Iowa BB-61)
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To: repub4ever1

BTW, your chart refers to “financial assets” ~ I was referring to land, thorium, uranium, gold, silver, platinum, copper, coal, oil, gas ~ all the extractives available on vast stretches of public lands.


42 posted on 07/28/2011 7:52:00 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Sporke
What does? Well, several things ~ one of them PRECEDENT.

As you undoubtedly recall the 13 colonies were turned into 13 sovereign nations by the Treaty of Paris. They, in turn, wrote up the Articles of Confederation and one of the deals they all adhered to was they CONTRIBUTED their UNORGANIZED TERRITORIES and CLAIMS to the United States of America.

The largest such territory was called The Northwest Territory. It was subsequently turned into all or parts of states called New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota ~

One of my ancestors handled the sales transactions for virtually all of the public lands in Indiana ~ for the most part that land had been given as grants to important or famous people (George Rogers Clark, the Lees, etc.) or in patents to individual soldiers and contributors to the American Revolution. They had their pick of federal lands.

In the early days the issue you are trying to raise simply did not concern anyone. There was more than enough land for everybody, and as new states came into the Union the public lands were sold to new settlers ~ with the money reverting to the federal government.

The last of the public lands were sold in Indiana in the Early 1900s ~ a very swampy area known as the Limberlost. It actually had to be drained before anyone could figure out what they owned.

Later on other territories were accreted to the United States and that land was divided up and organized as states and the federal government sold lots of land to new settlers.

There was never any doubt in the minds of the founders or two or three generations after them that when the United States acquired vast tracts of land it belonged to the United States and not to any particular state.

States were thought of as being sovereign beings, with authority over private individuals and their needs for civil government.

In the course of time states began to be entered into the union with specific assignments of land ~

That's where you are coming in ~ New Mexico was assigned specific land, as was Utah, Arizona, Nevada ~ and all the rest was retained by the United States until such time as some use could be found for it.

I've flown over some of that nasty stuff ~ the volcanic flats (traps), the sand deserts, the wicked exposed rocks where you would die in hours.

Uncle Sam got STUCK WITH THAT STUFF.

A full 1/3 of the land in the United States is STILL OWNED by the US government. They didn't buy it or acquire it from citizens (for the most part). If it gets organized and placed in private hands it will become subject to the state jurisdiction appropriate to it.

We might even get a Navajo State out in the Four Corners area some day ~ who knows.

Now, to a specific answer ~ the Founders gave the Federal Government the right to unorganized territories acquired by the United States. The constitution gives the Federal Government authority over the erection or creation of new states ~ they are POLITICAL ENTITIES that incidentally operate within certain geographic regions. The dirt isn't really "the state" ~ that's part of this country.

43 posted on 07/28/2011 8:33:37 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Sorry my error from 100 to 100,000.

So it begs the next question...if Uncle Sam has such huge assets as you are implying, why are the rating services about to downgrade Treasury debt?


44 posted on 07/28/2011 10:41:27 PM PDT by repub4ever1 (Capitalism is not perfect, but it beats all other systems hands down.)
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To: muawiyah

Thank you very much! Now I feel like I should have known that, but alas, I didn’t. I assumed (not good) that once a state came into being, the state acquired all the land within it’s borders.

At least Texas owns most of it’s land. :)


45 posted on 07/29/2011 12:54:07 AM PDT by Sporke (USS-Iowa BB-61)
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To: Sporke
To heck with the "balanced budget amendment" - I want the Thomas Jefferson Amendment
46 posted on 07/29/2011 1:07:48 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (For decades they've kicked the can down the road. Sorry, but there's no more road.)
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To: repub4ever1
Why?

Funny you should ask.

It's political street theatre!

47 posted on 07/29/2011 5:08:04 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
Now, for the relevance of S&P, NO ONE uses them as a reference for purchasing US securities ~ maybe your company's securities, but not that of this country. Just doesn't happen.

My only point was that after another round of CRISIS HYSTERIA, if the bill that is eventually signed does not meet the guidelines laid out by these ratings houses and we do not get downgraded, then, as you said WRT to our vast resources, we were taken for suckers once again.

Now, as I understand it, a downgrade would issue in an immediate interest rate increase and this increase would by itself increase our debt. So you would think that if our Congress were REALLY worried, i.e. Reid and other such members of mainly the Senate, they would not even think of passing something that did not meet those guidelines. Therefore, since they are moving in the direction of a non-starter of a bill, that must mean that they never were really worried about a downgrade or at least not worried about the effects of a downgrade.
48 posted on 07/29/2011 5:11:15 AM PDT by Eagle of Liberty (Shaking My Head on a daily basis)
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To: Eagle of Liberty
Reid, et al, are NOT WORRIED because the ratings scores issued by a publisher don't mean all that much when it comes to the power and majesty of the United States government.

We put our bonds on the market and people buy them ~ if they don't buy them at one interest rate, that'll be reset to another one (through established bid mechanisms) and we'll try again.

That's how nation-states do the trick.

Some nation-states are small enough, and not well known enough that they can be dealt with like a large company. For instance, you and I might not have enough information about Azerbaijan to know if their bond offerings at 5% are any good, or will we get clipped. S&P may have studied them and come up with a well educated guess. However, if you had France issuing bonds at 2%, everybody knows (who has sufficient money to buy billions of Euros in bonds) whether or not France is going to pay off.

It's not like the USA is a corner grocery.

Obama wants the money. Reid wants to bully around the House. The TEA Party wants Obama to cut the cost of government PDQ.

In reality the United States does not need to restrict its borrowing to situations where it pledges it's FULL FAITH AND CREDIT. We have vast lands and resources owned by the federal government that can be PLEDGED ~ or MORTGAGED.

Greece was going to sell some government owned islands and the SHTF but we have thousands of mountains to sell, and it's not like someone is going to move a mountain somewhere else!

49 posted on 07/29/2011 5:27:39 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
In reality the United States does not need to restrict its borrowing to situations where it pledges it's FULL FAITH AND CREDIT. We have vast lands and resources owned by the federal government that can be PLEDGED ~ or MORTGAGED.

Right. So we were suckered and everyone in DC KNOWS the American people, sitting glued to the TV or radio watching all of this, were being suckered.
50 posted on 07/29/2011 5:39:52 AM PDT by Eagle of Liberty (Shaking My Head on a daily basis)
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