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Returning Adopted Kids: Unthinkable?
responsibility-project.libertymutual.com ^ | January 26, 2010 | Kathy McManus

Posted on 08/03/2011 3:43:52 AM PDT by lowbridge

Return unused portion for refund. It’s the traditional safety net when a product fails to please or perform.

But should returns be allowed for adopted children?

The Tulsa World reports that parents Melissa and Tony Wescott want to return their 11 year-old adopted son to state custody because they say he had severe behavioral problems not disclosed prior to his 2007 adoption, including reactive detachment disorder, disruptive behavior disorder, major depressive disorder, post traumatic stress disorder, and fetal alcohol syndrome.

The Wescotts say that soon after the adoption, the boy attacked a neighbor child with a board, killed and injured animals, began regularly running away, and hid butcher knives and lighters in his room. “He tried to burn our home down,” said Melissa Wescott. “The note read: ‘I’m sorry you had to die.’”

State documents described the child as “polite and well mannered.”

Because the Wescotts can’t afford the lengthy legal process of having the adoption “dissolved,” they are asking the state to enact a law allowing adoptive parents to return children under certain circumstances.

(Excerpt) Read more at responsibility-project.libertymutual.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Health/Medicine; Miscellaneous; Society
KEYWORDS: adopting; adoption; attachmentdisorder

1 posted on 08/03/2011 3:43:55 AM PDT by lowbridge
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To: lowbridge

“Returning adopted kids - unthinkable?”

This is not just a “kid”, but a torturer, killer of animals and attempted murderer, for starters,

So are they supposed to keep him just to prove a point, or should we let the kid kill them and say “the system worked”.


2 posted on 08/03/2011 3:51:54 AM PDT by Joann37
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To: Joann37

I’d wager that if this kid was a product of their flesh and blood, they would wish they could return the child to the hospital they birthed him/her from too. =.=


3 posted on 08/03/2011 3:55:22 AM PDT by cranked
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To: lowbridge

Many ‘older’ children up for adoption have behavior and mental issues that go unrecognized and undocumented (sometimes just to get them out of the system). These stories seem to be more and more common, esp. with domestic adoptions. Such a shame.


4 posted on 08/03/2011 3:55:39 AM PDT by rintense (God made me a conservative. FR made me a better one. :))
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To: cranked

Why not simply abort the child? Then we could all celebrate their right to choose.


5 posted on 08/03/2011 4:03:23 AM PDT by Hoodat (Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. - (Rom 8:37))
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To: lowbridge

Wow, it’s bad enough adopting an animal that doesn’t work out. I can’t imagine having an adopted kid that is a severe problem. Not sure what the solution is, but I definitely feel for the adoptive parents.


6 posted on 08/03/2011 4:06:05 AM PDT by beaversmom
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To: rintense

People don’t realize how dangerous this “attachment disorder” is; it’s not simply a failure to adjust and get along, but turns the child into a very violent psychopath.

It was very common among Russian adoptions, btw, probably because of the early treatment of these children while in the institutions, but also because some of them were possibly already damaged by conditions such as fetal alcohol syndrome. I was acquainted with a family who had adopted one of these children and eventually ended up spending every dime they had to pay for his permanent institutionalization because he was so dangerous (tried to kill the other children in the family, threatened to rape the mother, etc.).

I don’t know if they give any indication of this condition prior to their adoption, but it’s possible. Russian institutions were famous for never revealing the physical or mental health problems or background of the children they offered for adoption.


7 posted on 08/03/2011 4:12:34 AM PDT by livius
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To: rintense; lowbridge
“Many ‘older’ children up for adoption have behavior and mental issues that go unrecognized and undocumented (sometimes just to get them out of the system).”

It sounds like he was about 8. There's no cure for fetal alcohol syndrome.
It's unconscionable for the adoption agency not to fully disclose a child's problems.

8 posted on 08/03/2011 4:13:01 AM PDT by nuconvert ( Khomeini promised change too // Hail, Chairman O)
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To: lowbridge

“Because the Wescotts can’t afford the lengthy legal process of having the adoption “dissolved,” they are asking the state to enact a law allowing adoptive parents to return children under certain circumstances.”

They think enacting a law like this won’t be a “lengthy process”?


9 posted on 08/03/2011 4:31:20 AM PDT by jocon307
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To: Hoodat

If someone sold crystal balls that one could divine what their child will be or do throughout life, they’d be richer than Bill Gates, Soros, Buffett, etc.


10 posted on 08/03/2011 4:41:42 AM PDT by cranked
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To: lowbridge

A relative adopted one such “damaged goods” child, who proceeded to do the same things that this youngster did; however, he succeeded in burning the house down to the ground, the two family dogs dying in the fire. At age 16, he left home and subsequently served a lengthy jail term. He frequently torments and threatens his adoptive parents with middle-of-the night phone calls. They had wanted to return him when they discovered the danger signs, but by then it was too late.


11 posted on 08/03/2011 4:45:08 AM PDT by Salvey
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To: Joann37

I have four well put together adoptive kids. Adopted at birth, privately through and agency.

However dont think that for one minute that genetics and bio parent history is not a factor in adoption/

For the most part, those adopting a child or infant from the state are in for a lifetime of casework management. State kids are often from mentally ill parents. And the state lies about the child’s backgrounds. Years in adoptive support groups have made me very leery of state adoptions. I know a couple of people who have disrupted adoptions. Sad but necessary.


12 posted on 08/03/2011 4:52:54 AM PDT by Chickensoup (In the 20th century 200 million people were killed by their own governments.)
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To: lowbridge
But should returns be allowed for adopted children?

Should returns be allowed for sorry pres - - ents?

Can I have a 100% agreement with my statement?

13 posted on 08/03/2011 5:05:18 AM PDT by Arrowhead1952 (Dear God, please let it rain in Texas. Amen.)
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To: Joann37

I’m with you - liberal social workers lied about his condition - he needs more care than the average family can offer. They should return him ...


14 posted on 08/03/2011 5:13:32 AM PDT by GOPJ (http://www.alt-market.com/articles/198-the-essential-rules-of-tyranny)
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To: lowbridge

Kids come with warranties?


15 posted on 08/03/2011 5:20:34 AM PDT by Fresh Wind ('People have got to know whether or not their President is a crook.' Richard M. Nixon)
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To: Chickensoup

I worked with a woman in her early thirties who had been adopted, she was physically gorgeous, exceptionally intelligent and very capable on the job, doing things that most women didn’t want to touch because of physical demands and technical problems. She was also unreliable to the extreme, you never knew whether she would come to work or not and was finally let go because of her unreliability. One week she missed the night shift for which she was scheduled because she claimed to be sick. I worked the day shift the next day and was amazed to see her come in at eight in the morning to pick up her paycheck looking as if she just stepped off the cover of Vogue. She was wearing an evening dress, high heels and a ton of makeup.

I met her father once and he told me that he and his wife had adopted a boy and a girl, he said that when the adopted son enters a room it is like the sun rising, he radiates joy and happiness but the daughter with whom I worked was the exact opposite.


16 posted on 08/03/2011 5:21:09 AM PDT by RipSawyer (Trying to reason with a liberal is like teaching algebra to a tomcat.)
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To: lowbridge

sort of like a psychological abortion.


17 posted on 08/03/2011 5:23:43 AM PDT by _a_0_0_
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To: lowbridge
One of my colleagues could not have children and adopted four children over the years. Her youngest, had severe problems which included threats to burn down the house, and hiding knives in his bedroom.

She had the resources to seek out and get psychological care.

All the love they gave and still give the boy could not overcome the horrors he experienced prior to going into child services.

He is now in his late 20's and lives at a mental health center.

His folks visit often and when the doctors clear him, comes home for occasional weekend visits.

My friend is very knowledgeable and knew how to seek out the help the boy needed.

Can't say I fault this family. No one is being served by keeping the situation as it is. It is a tragedy waiting for front page headlines.

18 posted on 08/03/2011 5:34:43 AM PDT by mware (By all that you hold dear on this good earth, I bid you stand, Men of the Wes)
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To: lowbridge
Adopted kids don't come with guarantees.
Biological kids don't come with guarantees.

I don't read this story as a story about adoption.
I read this story as preliminary work toward the idea that since abortion is a basic right, and some people grow up to be nothing but trouble, then perhaps euthanasia is also a moral good for society. Perhaps death panels of one sort or another is a "basic moral good".

I'm totally cynical these days. Every news story I see, seems to be laying the groundwork for a horrific society They are planning to have in place twenty years from now.

Philip K. Dick wrote a story ("The Pre-persons") in which the abortion truck would roam neighborhoods. Up until the age of about 12, kids were vulnerable. If the parents were "displeased", they would call the truck and the "little problem" would be loaded in and dealt with.

I don't know if we will arrive at that destination, but I know we're on the road.

19 posted on 08/03/2011 5:37:45 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (The USSR spent itself into bankruptcy and collapsed -- and aren't we on the same path now?)
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To: lowbridge

We clearly need more regulation and a lemon law for adopted children. Hold the birth parents accountable for their damage and make them work 3 jobs to pay for the child’s care in institutions.


20 posted on 08/03/2011 5:40:01 AM PDT by CholeraJoe (When they rename the Paddy Wagon, I'll stop complaining about Racist Democrats.)
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To: lowbridge

I am assuming this is a domestic adoption of an older child. If so, the state knew of his circumstances. Many of the “America’s waiting children” are on medication of all sorts and have horrible history’s of sexual abuse, physical abuse and neglect. That is why I am always OUTRAGED when I read a story about an infant being burned with cigarettes or starved and the birth parents take a parenting class to get the child back. At some point, a child is damaged beyond repair. Sorry to say that but it is true... all the love, patience, understanding in the world WON”T cure them. That is one of the main reasons that my husband and I chose to adopt from China (not that abuse doesn’t occur but the children were younger and there was some medical documentation). We stayed away from Russia because of the RAD... a frightening diagnosis which I interpreted as simply the child will NEVER bond with you in any form. Would I adopt an older child domestically ever? Yes... but only after I fostered the child in my home for at least a year. Just a thought.


21 posted on 08/03/2011 5:55:52 AM PDT by momtothree
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James Madison


Click The Pic

"The people are the only legitimate fountain of power, and it is from them that the constitutional charter, under which the several branches of government hold their power, is derived."


22 posted on 08/03/2011 5:56:19 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are here! What will you do?)
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To: lowbridge
Interesting story, but I'm a bit skeptical.

I've not been directly involved in an adoption before, and I'm sure that there are FReepers who can correct me.

However, I have several close friends and relatives who have adopted children through the state. The number of hoops that they need to jump through are legion (and many of them are ridiculous), and the entire process - from start to finish - took years. Plenty of time to spot warning signs.

For this behavior to "suddenly" show up triggers my BS detector. Not saying that it couldn't happen, just saying that I don't think we're getting the entire story.

23 posted on 08/03/2011 6:08:34 AM PDT by wbill
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To: wbill

I see what you are saying but the parents could have had short visitation while the adoption was going through. With RAD, the child isn’t stupid. He or she knows their best option is to get adopted instead of staying at a foster house. Did your friends adopt young children or infants? The reason that I am asking is that those adoptions go more slowly simply because they are more “desirable”. That is why I said I would choose an adoption of an older child if he or she lived with me for a year. You can hide some psychological damage for a period of time but not that long... it will surface with the child being more comfortable. I guess my main point is this: I fear a law where parents are forced to remain parents if they aren’t handling it well and are doing more damage than good. I have no problem with a parent surrendering a three month old baby when they realize that they can’t cope. Thus, I have no problem with parents surrendering an older child if they can’t cope as well. Not for the parents... but for the safety of the children.


24 posted on 08/03/2011 6:19:51 AM PDT by momtothree
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To: momtothree
The kids' ages ranged from two to around 10.

Like I said - I'm sure that there are exceptions. But, in the instances that I'm familiar with, the adoptive parents were completely familiar with the children that they were adopting.

In fact, in two cases that I can think of, they needed to fight to keep the adoption on track, and ran up substantial legal costs in the process (both cases involved a biological mother who was a drug addict refusing treatment, but also refusing to relinquish parental rights).

The adoptive Parents were special people in both cases. I couldn't have had an issue like that hanging over my head, and been subject to the whims of a drug-addled mother, a bunch of senseless bureaucrats and/or a court. Especially when common sense went out the window completely. For instance, in one case, the adoptive parents are pretty well-to-do. The child was receiving Social Security checks. *AFTER* everything went through, the father looked into getting the checks stopped...they weren't necessary in the least.

He was told - in no uncertain terms - that they could not be stopped, and if he continued to pursue the issue, it would be investigated by Social Services and would put the adoption (the *completed* adoption!!) back in jeopardy. Amazing. So, he said "AllRighty" and banked the checks. His son used the money to go to college, and is now a teacher who works with undrepriviledged kids (he's the wrestling coach...that one of the ways he makes a connection). A happy ending, and tax dollars well spent, IMHO. But completely ridiculous (and honestly, scary..."you'd like to do something sensible, and we'll threaten to take your kids for it") to go through at the time.

25 posted on 08/03/2011 7:02:34 AM PDT by wbill
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To: wbill

We have friends that adopted domestically and they went through the ringer. One baby was put into their care and they wanted so badly to adopt him. (they even had him baptized). The infants was found in the front seat of a “suspicious vehicle”. The birth mom was “retarded” (as defined by social services), a prostitute and a drug addict. The baby was put into the front seat by the mother while she was with (performing) on a john. Okay... you would think that this woman couldn’t take care of a baby (since she wasn’t taking care of herself, right?) No... the baby was returned to his birth mother after a year. She had completed one clean drug test and had gotten into a half way house. Social Services accompanied by the police literally showed up on their doorstep and took the child. (the depression of the couple afterwards was heart breaking)

That is why we chose to adopt a “foreign” child. Plain, simple and possibly selfish to some?! I wanted to know after 2 years and five months of medical tests, criminal background, MVA backgrounds, interviews with a social worker, my other kid’s interviews and medical backgrounds, financial statement, house inspections (etc, etc, etc) that the child put into my arms WAS now MY child. I didn’t want to fear someone from the state taking her. Our group of nine parents all shared the same fear: we all discussed how we didn’t think we could handle it psychologically if a grandparent, Aunt, distant cousin etc... came out of the closet and demanded the “genetic” child be returned to them. Your friends sound like amazing and wonderful people. I truly respect them!


26 posted on 08/03/2011 7:13:43 AM PDT by momtothree
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To: lowbridge; All

when the adoption agency conceals material facts like mental disorders or chronic illnesses not only yes, but yes with a right to damages.

Adoption agencies should not be able to use desperation of wanabe parents as a means of dumping.


27 posted on 08/03/2011 7:13:57 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: ClearCase_guy

The story IS about adoption.

Adoption is an artificial statutory creation.

The documents and contractual obligations undertaken were based on a fraud in the inducement.

like it or not, this child adopted is a product.

if this is allowed to stand it will kill off the entire public adoption agency system.


28 posted on 08/03/2011 7:25:51 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: longtermmemmory
The story IS about adoption.

I agree.

It is also about much more than adoption. The question of "what do we do with unwanted humans?" is part of this picture.

It's not just about adoption.

29 posted on 08/03/2011 7:29:24 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (The USSR spent itself into bankruptcy and collapsed -- and aren't we on the same path now?)
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To: ClearCase_guy

The story IS about adoption.

Adoption is an artificial statutory creation.

The documents and contractual obligations undertaken were based on a fraud in the inducement.

like it or not, this child adopted is a product.

if this is allowed to stand it will kill off the entire public adoption agency system.


30 posted on 08/03/2011 7:32:20 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: ClearCase_guy

The first answer to “what do we do with unwanted humans” is we do not LIE and falsify documents in order to dump them without warning on addoptive parents.

I hope someones head rolls in the state.


31 posted on 08/03/2011 7:40:04 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Allegra; Jersey Republican Biker Chick; Tijeras_Slim

FReerider Ping

32 posted on 08/03/2011 8:47:02 AM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: momtothree
LOL on the house inspections.

Another close friend went through that. Inspector dinged him because the kids' bedroom window only opened 19" instead of the requisite 20".

That's not the funny part. No "fire ladders" were required, and the windows opened up to a 30' drop on to a cement patio. Friend asked the inspector "So having a window not opening wide enough is *bad*, but my kids falling to their death is *OK*?"

Yup. Bureaucrats are not known for their sense of humor.

Buddy put in a fire ladder (he was planning to, anyway) and had the local volunteer fire chief "inspect" his property and write a letter stating that remediation measures were adequate. Problem solved.

I'm sure that you have your share of horror stories, too.

33 posted on 08/03/2011 9:36:07 AM PDT by wbill
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To: martin_fierro

that sign is used for DISCLOSED obsolete or defective product.

in this case these adoptors were lied to and decieved.

they should do what that mother returned the defective adoptive child to a russian adoption agency. She dumped him right on their doorstep and they had to take it back.


34 posted on 08/03/2011 9:54:43 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: nuconvert; livius; rintense

My nephew and his wife adopted (at great expense) a Russian baby when he was 1 year old. He was a beautiful child and seemed just fine until a couple of years ago when behavioral problems began to crop up.

Since then, he’s been in and out of counseling and temporary institutional situations. It’s been a very heavy financial and emotional burden on their family, especially his younger brother.

Naturally, there was absolutely nothing in the records to show his family’s mental health history, much less how he was treated in that orphanage for his first year of life. Very sad situation all around.


35 posted on 08/03/2011 9:55:23 AM PDT by EDINVA
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To: lowbridge

I have no problems with these folks sending the kid back to a government agency. In essence, the law will take him pretty soon anyways...

Now, as it comes to celebrities, if they decide that they didn’t get a big enough PR boost from adoption, not as favorable. I wonder, are there any high profile cases of that having happened? I’d think the media would be all over that, unless they got bought off.


36 posted on 08/03/2011 10:03:01 AM PDT by Professional
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To: EDINVA

One of the main reasons Russia was removed from my adoption list. The majority of children have fetal alcohol syndrome which greatly affects their development, not to mention the almost feral conditions at Russian orphanages.


37 posted on 08/03/2011 10:36:20 AM PDT by rintense (God made me a conservative. FR made me a better one. :))
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To: EDINVA

There is probably some organic problem there (possibly fetal alcohol syndrome), as well. Sometimes that’s not that detectable at birth, unless it’s so severe it results in physical abnormalities, but I’m sure the family’s history was known to the Russians and they just preferred not to disclose it.

It is very sad. The family I knew had adopted 2 brothers, one of whom (the younger) was fine, but the older child began to have problems in the first year of adoption and they eventually ended up institutionalizing him, after having taken part in every therapeutic program in the US or probably in the universe.

There was a horrible case in Connecticut a couple of years ago where two men carried out the home invasion robbery of the home of a doctor, killing (after raping and torturing) the wife and daughters by setting fire to the house, believing that they had already killed the doctor (who was tied up and unconscious in the basement). The leader of the pair was a Russian adoptee who had been bad from the start and too hard for his family to handle. He had been caught torturing small animals and breaking into houses from about the age of 8.


38 posted on 08/03/2011 10:59:07 AM PDT by livius
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To: Hoodat

Perhaps orphanages that can manage and civilize the difficult to manage kids would be more appropriate.


39 posted on 08/03/2011 11:06:35 AM PDT by Chickensoup (In the 20th century 200 million people were killed by their own governments.)
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To: jocon307

They think enacting a law like this won’t be a “lengthy process”?

But it will be affordable in a way that hiring a lawyer is not.


40 posted on 08/03/2011 11:10:23 AM PDT by Chickensoup (In the 20th century 200 million people were killed by their own governments.)
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To: jocon307

They think enacting a law like this won’t be a “lengthy process”?

But it will be affordable in a way that hiring a lawyer is not.


41 posted on 08/03/2011 11:10:24 AM PDT by Chickensoup (In the 20th century 200 million people were killed by their own governments.)
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To: wbill

I think the most amusing incident occurred when the Social Worker asked us, “Will you tell your daughter that she is adopted?” (um.... we’re white and she will be Chinese?!!) My husband and I just looked at each other and said, “NO, absolutely not. We plan on keeping it a secret for as long as we live”. The social worker said, “I have to ask that question...” (what she didn’t know was there was no way to answer it without sarcasm!!!) LOL!!


42 posted on 08/03/2011 12:15:41 PM PDT by momtothree
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