Skip to comments.How did the enemy know that their were ALOT of Spec Ops guys on THAT helicopter?
Posted on 08/07/2011 9:31:04 AM PDT by US Navy Vet
Makes ya wonder.
You gonna get in trouble!
Agreed. Sometimes sucky things happen in war. When you hear hooves and all that.
With friends like we have in the Middle East, they don’t need spies and we don’t need enemies!
Excuse me? You have your opinion, and I have mine. Cyberspace is still a free area (for now, at least).In fact, it's the only free space left in the world. Please don't try to ruin it for others.
“A chinook is a major target and a slow one at that.
You got that right. Rode a few in VN.
Sat on my helmet but “pucker factor” was still 100%.”
Just spent the morning at the range with a friend who was an FO in Vietnam. He is furious at this. Can’t believe they used a “cargo helicopter”(his words) to insert these troops into a “hot LZ.” “Why didn’t they use several Blackhawks?” He believes someone high up should go down for this.
“Lets assume all the element of surprise was gone and the big, fat chopper was coming in slowly like a sitting duck for several minutes, the perfect target, again, just like Mogadishu.”
Good assessment for the moment. Maybe further intel will eventually explain the tragedy better, even more sinister factors. The Chinook is a reliable heavy lift machine, but could also be described in civilian terms as an ideal target. The tactics of the enemy should not be discounted, as you mention, in Mogadishu. This was the experience repeatedly in Iraq as well. Improvised ambush. A strategy, which, if it works, draws a predictable response. Played out in countless ‘B’ grade western movies.
I understand the feeling.
Hey. Wait a minute. Who said they did? I said I didn't know the story, but there is more to it. I believe there's a bigger picture. Either someone knew it was a dangerous mission but did it anyway, or someone knew later something was going to happen and didn't stop it. I just feel it could have been prevented.
I can have my opinion, and this is it. I'm sticking to it. My conscience wouldn't let me do otherwise.
Someone should tell your friend that chinooks have been the work horses for combat missions in Afghanistan. They can fly higher, faster, and better at those high altitudes than Blackhawks. They are actually preferred there to Blackhawks.
So you think our elite troops participate in mass murdering each other and covering it up, and even do that so casually that they can cross several branches of the military at the same time, knowing that the investigators will what, cover it up, or will they be killed also? You also believe that the government leaders orders such things?
Haven’t heard anything..
All they had to know was that is was a US helicopter. It’s not like they save their ammo just for the special forces. We need some sort of fantasy subsection for some of you people to get this stuff out of your systems since it’s obvious that this is coming from nowhere but your imagination.
What the heck are you talking about? Don't you think Clinton would have kept the story of the Black Hawk crash in Mogadishu a secret if he could have? I'm not blaming the men in the military. I'm talking about the guys who sit behind a desk in Washington.
“Someone should tell your friend that...”
Nope, he was a warrior. I respect his opinion over some stranger on the net. No offense.
I live close to a Chinook base. As it turns out they are cycling today. I got to thinking when I was watering the garden just how easy would it be to take one down. I shouldered my shovel and tracked one from lift off (1.1 miles away) to passing 500 yards away from me at full speed and about 1,000 elevation. 500 yards is easily within the improved RPG range in an arc.
Quite frankly piece of cake with an RPG. Heck a Ma Deuce would do it easily. Even a lucky shot with a 30-06 could cause damage. Helos are very fragile - even the “armored” ones.
there's also been lots of confusion about if it was landing or taking off...
Remember the Afghani who killed the 7 CIA agents. He was workign with us..supposedly..
You need to quit watching the Hollywood movies, you have trouble distinguishing between leftist fantasy, and reality.
This one is soo easy to figure out even an Afghanistanican can do it.
Got PMS or something? Sorry I don't see things your way. That's what makes us all individuals.
I don't take insults personally. Just so you know. I hope you feel better tomorrow. I mean that sincerely.
I agree. AFAIK, they shoot all ALL of the helicopters they can. Sadly, sometimes, they hit them.
“One word....barry. He should be arrested and hung for treason!”
Agree. I expect that Obama knew that this group had TMI re the Osama/Obama connection and the guts of the operation. What else was there to do but herd the group (more than protocol permits) on to one copter and then see that there’s a leak to the appropriate people in the enemy camp. Instant shut-up.
Right now the news is that they had come to aid some Rangers in a firefight, and that they were leaving the site of the battle and were hit with a rocket, and that the Rangers have secured the crash site.
If that reporting holds up, then we should be learning the details soon.
The altitude is too high. Only CH47's can carry useful loads at the altitudes where the operations are occurring (7000+ feet)
Interesting. I’ll ask him about that. Thanks for the info.
As a veteran I have run into your type before, your Hollywood view of the military and the American government is insulting and disrespectful.
I know exactly what you're talking about. I'm guessing that 200mg of Aripiprazole (sold under the commercial name of 'Abilify'), twice daily with a little food, might help with that.
As far as your visions being evidence that all opinions on political / military analysis is equal, not so much. Yes, you have your opinion, and it's a free country. Please enjoy it.
As Ronald Reagan once said, "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." Unless you are a board-certified Prophet, I'm afraid we can't take enter your spooky hunches as evidence.
This question MUST be answered.
That's it! I'll bet the military requested additional equipment and was denied from the top. They had no choice but to take the risk and put everyone on board that copter. Because of that, many more died than had to. This could have been prevented. I'll bet this will come out in the end. (No wonder Black Hawk kept coming to mind. Trust your instincts)
Seals, Rangers, etc. are making multiple raids every night. The locals know what it means when they hear choppers flying late at night. So it would not take a Tom Clancy conspiracy to figure out that special operations troops were in the CH47 flying through the mountains at midnight.
And, in this case the news reports say that this was a second Seal squadron on its way to support a first squadron that was pinned down.
A lucky shot from an unguided rocket caused this tragedy.
And, besides the squadron that was in the downed chopped apparently had nothing to do with the OBL raid. (There are at least 300 operators in Seal Team 6 -- only one Seal squadron (around 30 operators) was directly involved in the OBL raid.
Thanks. I appreciate that.
Yeah you’re right. What do current warriors know anyway?
Good reading here: http://barnhardt.biz/
She may not answer all your questions but you might think of some new questions too.
Poor planning to bunch them together.
I understand, but when I made my comment I hadn't heard anything definitive about why the helicopter came down. Even if there were a definitive investigation result, I still wouldn't believe it under this admin.
Think “Ron Brown.”
Not me, the Afghanis are known to shoot their IED's and anything else they may have at anything that walks, flies or drives.........on a regular basis even.
One thing is for sure. This has not been a good week for America.
Didn’t mean to offend anybody. Hence the “no offense.”
After your original comment, someone else wrote something similar about the Chinooks and altitude.
Sorry I stuck my nose into a conversation about which I know so little. I stand corrected.
If that B true then U B a fool.
Spec. Opps didn’t EVER travel in some stumble bum National Guard copter when REAL copters were available.
Also they SELDOM traveled with so many on a single flight.
This was a set up to eliminate those in the know to what REALLY happened to Bin Laden and to keep that Quiet.
I like that alot a lot!
The apparent mission profile for this raid is unremarkable. Hundreds of similar raids have occurred during this war. This raid would have been totally unremarkable but for the chopper going down.
There are similar raids going on right now throughout Afghanistan -- God willing -- we will not hear anything about them.
The Taliban only shoot at full choppers? Whoddathunkit?
I don’t know what it is like right now, but most of the time National Guard pilots have been the best. During the Cold War the National Guard was generally considered superior in aviation to anyone on the planet, because of their massive experience compared to lessor experienced active duty, that was true in Armor also.
"What's that, you say? They got them all?"
if NONE of the Bin Laden team was still alive to tell their story - it was a hit. The Bin Ladin story ends with obummers description of events only.
Rest in Peace, Dear brave young Men. A Grateful Nation Thanks You for your Sacrifice, and we grieve with your Families.
I didn’t think I could hate barry anymore than I already do. I was wrong.
I didn’t think I could hate barry anymore than I already do. I was wrong.
By the way, how are you feeling? I pray you’re getting better.
Who the hell are YOU to tell anyone to do anything? This is a discussion forum and we are discussing ALL possibilities.
If YOU can't handle it I suggest YOU lay off FR for a while.
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