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Fights Break Out in Afghanistan as NATO Moves to Recover Downed Helicopter
FoxNews.com ^ | Published August 07, 2011

Posted on 08/07/2011 4:10:37 PM PDT by DBCJR

U.S. soldiers from the 2nd Brigade, 87th Infantry Regiment, 10th Mountain Division, secure the area after existing a Chinoonk helicopter, Helmand Province, southern Afghanistan, in this Sunday, June 18, 2006 file photo. Insurgents apparently shot down a U.S. military helicopter Saturday Aug. 6, 2011 similar to this one shown during fighting in eastern Afghanistan, killing 30 Americans, most of them belonging to the same elite Navy SEALs unit that killed Usama bin Laden, as well as seven Afghan commandos, U.S. officials said.

An Afghan official says there is fighting in the area where a U.S. Army Chinook helicopter was apparently shot down Saturday by the Taliban, killing 38, including more than 20 Navy Seals from the unit that killed Usama bin Laden in May.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Conspiracy; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: afganistan; afghanistan; chinook; helicopter; navy; navyseals; seals; sealteamsix; unit6; usn; usnavy
The Navy SEALS Unit 6 that died in the Chinook that was shot down were some of the same that killed Bin Laden. That is suspicious seeing that the Navy was quick to dump bin Laden's body at sea.
1 posted on 08/07/2011 4:10:42 PM PDT by DBCJR
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To: DBCJR

The media has been saying that the SEALS on the Chinook were NOT involved in the Bin Laden takedown.

They are from the same unit..... SEAL Team 6 - but were not the same men.


2 posted on 08/07/2011 4:15:42 PM PDT by july4thfreedomfoundation (Obama inherited a mild recession from George W. Bush and turned it into a major depression.)
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To: DBCJR

Time for a full court press and clean up the entire area.


3 posted on 08/07/2011 4:16:40 PM PDT by Logical me
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To: DBCJR
Strange that it was released that it was Seal team 6 almost immediately. No waiting for Family notifications. The obama team just gave a big victory to the enemy.

This is sad!

4 posted on 08/07/2011 4:17:30 PM PDT by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: Red_Devil 232

There is no coherent information in the fox report that would give the public accurate information as to what actually happened. Disjointed statements from various “spokesmen”, etc, amounting to diinformation, the way it reads. We have suffered a serious military defeat, blow to morale, and the enemy has gained a propoganda victory.

Who will be held responsible for this disaster?


5 posted on 08/07/2011 4:34:00 PM PDT by ngat
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To: Red_Devil 232

If you only knew the truth, when the news broke about the downed chopper there were high-fives all around in certain areas at the White Hut.....from the ineligible muzzie leader on down! I don’t trust the man as far as I could throw his old lady!


6 posted on 08/07/2011 4:35:05 PM PDT by Tucker39
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To: ngat

He did say he’d stand by his Muslim brothers if things got thick.


7 posted on 08/07/2011 4:40:33 PM PDT by txhurl (Did you want to talk or fish?)
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To: Red_Devil 232
That leak seems to have come from the Afghans.
8 posted on 08/07/2011 4:44:09 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: Red_Devil 232; Logical me; All

The Chinook, a highly sophisticate copter, was taken down by a 60’s generation RPG. That’s a little suspect. Maybe a little lucky on their part, maybe not.


9 posted on 08/07/2011 4:55:06 PM PDT by DBCJR (What would you expect?)
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To: DBCJR

RPG’s are not guided, so it has to be a very lucky hit to bring down a Chinook.

If the cause were instead a bomb brought on-board by the ANA, would they SAY that this were the case?

Never.

I also don’t think the mission was a standard QRF, nope —prolly was a snatch gone bad.


10 posted on 08/07/2011 4:59:15 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: DBCJR

We do NOT use large precision Bombs anymore just blow the enemy to vapor,or have to do Operations like this ,boots on the ground? Need to leave that crap hole or hire some NEW commanders, that know how to win!


11 posted on 08/07/2011 5:02:01 PM PDT by Cheetahcat ( November 4 2008 ,A date that will live in Infamy.)
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To: Tucker39

And how do you know that? From personal observation?


12 posted on 08/07/2011 5:05:36 PM PDT by GAB-1955 (I write books, love my wife, serve my nation, and believe in the Resurrection.)
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To: Cheetahcat

Just WTF are we still doing in Afghanistan anyway?


13 posted on 08/07/2011 5:06:02 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks DBCJR.


14 posted on 08/07/2011 5:06:02 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: dfwgator

“Just WTF are we still doing in Afghanistan anyway?”

Excellent Point!


15 posted on 08/07/2011 5:14:04 PM PDT by Cheetahcat ( November 4 2008 ,A date that will live in Infamy.)
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To: july4thfreedomfoundation
It is a disgrace that the SEALS were even mentioned in this.

It has given the enemy a propaganda victory.

No one in this administration can keep his mouth shut.

16 posted on 08/07/2011 5:21:12 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (When the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn (Pr.29:2))
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To: ngat

No one.


17 posted on 08/07/2011 5:21:48 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (When the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn (Pr.29:2))
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To: DBCJR

It was an RPG that brought down a Black Hawk helicopter in Somalia. At close range, the RPG can bring down a chopper. There is no doubt. It takes a few bad circumstances coming together. For certain, the pilot must not have known there were ground forces so close to where he was putting the chopper down.


18 posted on 08/07/2011 5:21:51 PM PDT by elhombrelibre ("I'd rather be ruled by the Tea Party than the Democratic Party." Norman Podhoretz)
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To: DBCJR

I hope they level the place so there nothing left...not even a freaking blade of grass...much less a poppy plant left standing...


19 posted on 08/07/2011 5:22:36 PM PDT by RowdyFFC
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To: DBCJR
From Wiki:

The Chinook was initially produced by Boeing Vertol in the early 1960s. (And has) been sold to 16 nations… The CH-47 is among the heaviest lifting Western helicopters.
Improved and more powerful versions...have been developed since the helicopter entered service. (Including) the now-common CH-47D, which entered service in 1982.
The latest...is the CH-47F, which features…upgraded engines, composite rotor blades, a redesigned cockpit to reduce pilot workload, improved and redundant electrical systems, an advanced flight control system and improved avionics…(plus) several major upgrades to reduce maintenance, digitized flight controls…(it)is powered by two 4,733-horsepower Honeywell engines.

It's a great bird, sophisticated - yes, improved - yes, but not so much removed from those '60s RPGs.

PS: By their very nature any hilo is susceptible even to primitive ground fire, particularly in the low and slow insertion and extraction mode.

I'd be more inclined to think the bad guys had observed our ops enough times to have a good idea that they'd have a target and where it would be coming from/going to; and they set up for it.
After all, they are skilled at setting a second bomb to nail the responders to the first bomb and the same concept would apply.

20 posted on 08/07/2011 5:23:11 PM PDT by norton
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To: dfwgator; Cheetahcat
Just WTF are we still doing in Afghanistan anyway?

We HAVE to get those secret underground nuclear sub bases finished.

21 posted on 08/07/2011 5:23:37 PM PDT by bigheadfred ("I consulted all the sages I could find in yellow pages but there aren't many of them")
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To: DBCJR; gaijin

Article says, “apparently” an RPG. Why would we be led to believe a “lucky” shot by a 60s generation RPG caused this?

I’m not buying the meme that this disaster was caused by “bad luck” or we are up against ancient weaponry employed by primitives that get in an occasional lucky shot.

Nothing to see here. Move along.


22 posted on 08/07/2011 5:25:17 PM PDT by ngat
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To: gaijin
Yes, one report said they had a dog and a dog handler with them.

It might have been a trap set by the Taliban, lure them in with a high ranking leader.

23 posted on 08/07/2011 5:25:53 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (When the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn (Pr.29:2))
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To: GAB-1955

Sorry. Guess I hit a nerve! However, it is NOT all that difficult to perceive.

I have SEEN him doing everything in his power to destroy our medical/healthcare system; to destroy our Country financially and finnagle us to the point of Cloward & Piven financial collapse; to ENCOURAGE more illegals to pour into the country and get on the dole ASAP; to blame America first, and make us a laughingstock amongst the other nations of the world.

So in view of all that, why would I be so foolish as to think he cares squat about our military. Here’s a tip for you, for free: Don’t listen to what he SAYS; WATCH what he DOES!


24 posted on 08/07/2011 5:28:35 PM PDT by Tucker39
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To: dfwgator

Nation building.In other words, wasting American lives and money.


25 posted on 08/07/2011 5:28:52 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (When the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn (Pr.29:2))
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To: Tucker39

Zero had these men killed just my opion!


26 posted on 08/07/2011 5:32:34 PM PDT by VastRWCon ("Obama lies, economy dies" - Sarah Palin - 07/15/2011)
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To: fortheDeclaration

Don’t be so sure. CYA and a whitewash are as predictable as hovering helicopters getting shot down, but this was a big enough disaster to warrant an investigation that will at least point in several different directions before the politically-connected are exonerated.


27 posted on 08/07/2011 5:40:17 PM PDT by ngat
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To: fortheDeclaration
"It has given the enemy a propaganda victory."

Yeah, but now the TALLYBAN won't get their "COURAGOUS RESTRAINT" medal......OH, wait that's for our guys. DAMN!

28 posted on 08/07/2011 5:41:59 PM PDT by FW190
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To: bigheadfred
“Just WTF are we still doing in Afghanistan anyway?

We HAVE to get those secret underground nuclear sub bases finished.”

Yes ,Cheney and Halliburton again.

29 posted on 08/07/2011 5:42:50 PM PDT by Cheetahcat ( November 4 2008 ,A date that will live in Infamy.)
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To: norton
I'd be more inclined to think the bad guys had observed our ops enough times to have a good idea that they'd have a target and where it would be coming from/going to; and they set up for it. After all, they are skilled at setting a second bomb to nail the responders to the first bomb and the same concept would apply.

In his autobiography, an officer in the 1930s Indian Army (English officer commanding native -Gurkha- troops) wrote about campaigning India's North-West Frontier, against the same Afghan-Pakistani tribes we see today. He emphasized that the locals are always watching, and that it was imperative to never fall into a predictable pattern. Because if you did the locals, with a lifetime of experience in ambushes, would make you pay dearly.

Our guys know this, and we don't know that the Chinook was shot down. Could have been mechanical failure. Could have been a bomb on board. Could have been shot down by pure dumb luck - just some random slob with an RPG who got lucky.

But the story so far, four man SEAL team ambushed, large SEAL team helicoptered in to save them shot down as it attempts to land, does look a lot like it was planned.

30 posted on 08/07/2011 5:49:05 PM PDT by Pilsner
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To: dfwgator

We need to get our troops out YESTERDAY!!

My son is a Marine who was seriously injured by an IED in Afghanistan back in April. Two with him were killed. Last weekend I met the man who saved my son’s life. He told us that as they were rescuing and administering first aid to the injured, the Afghan army sat at a distance and laughed before they were run off.

I also was told that they will be re-deploying to the same spot next June. And here I thought I was told that we are drawing down our troops over there.

These people are nothing but evil in-breds who don’t appreciate what we are supposedly trying to do for them. Our boys are dying for animals.


31 posted on 08/07/2011 5:51:41 PM PDT by kevslisababy
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To: Tucker39
I agree with your attitude; I think that what Obama has done suffices to throw him out on his ear November 2012 and to cut off his pension and ban his Cabinet from Federal service forever. There's no need to make up stuff. Reality appalls me enough.
32 posted on 08/07/2011 5:51:46 PM PDT by GAB-1955 (I write books, love my wife, serve my nation, and believe in the Resurrection.)
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To: GAB-1955

http://barnhardt.biz/

“From the obituary of Sgt. Patrick Hamburger who served in the Nebraska National Guard as a Chinook Helicopter crewman and crew chief. The family was notified at 5:00pm CDT Saturday afternoon.

Link Here.

From the article:

Sources from the US military say the giant NATO chopper was called into action as backup. A team conducting a night raid on Taliban fighters was in trouble and the chopper went down as it arrived to help.

Requiescat in pace, Sgt. Hamburger, and all the fallen dead.

Sgt. Hamburger had JUST ARRIVED in Afghanistan a couple of days ago. Why was a green National Guard unit flying backup for DEVGRU SPECOPs??????? Where was the 160th SOAR backup??????

My God.


33 posted on 08/07/2011 6:08:05 PM PDT by RummyChick (It's a Satan Sandwich with Satan Fries on the side - perfect for Obama 666)
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To: kevslisababy
Our boys are dying for animals

I look at it this way: our boys aren't dying for animals. They're dying to keep (and, importantly, KILL) the animals over there, rather than over here.

That's a worthy and honorable mission, imho. One you and your son (who is a hero in my book) should be proud of.
34 posted on 08/07/2011 6:08:16 PM PDT by tanknetter
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To: RummyChick

Most National Guard units, at this stage of the war, aren’t green. They’ve been in combat at least twice.


35 posted on 08/07/2011 6:12:31 PM PDT by GAB-1955 (I write books, love my wife, serve my nation, and believe in the Resurrection.)
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To: GAB-1955

Think again..
http://www.omaha.com/article/20110807/NEWS01/110809751/1101

Hamburger joined the Guard when he was a senior in high school but had never been deployed until recently, his brother Chris Hamburger said.

Patrick Hamburger had been in Afghanistan less than two weeks and had arrived at Forward Operating Base Shank a few days before climbing aboard the helicopter with U.S. Navy SEALs and other troops to rush to the aid of a U.S. Army Ranger unit under fire from insurgents.


36 posted on 08/07/2011 6:22:00 PM PDT by RummyChick (It's a Satan Sandwich with Satan Fries on the side - perfect for Obama 666)
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To: ngat
I’m not buying the meme that this disaster was caused by “bad luck” or we are up against ancient weaponry employed by primitives that get in an occasional lucky shot.

We have the technology to decoy advanced guided missiles so that they do not impact the aircraft.

We cannot decoy a rocket propelled grenade.

37 posted on 08/07/2011 6:47:33 PM PDT by Doe Eyes
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To: RummyChick
The 2-135th General Support Aviation Battalion is not a green unit, even is SGT Hamburger was a green individual on his first rotation.

It's admirable that you are so passionate about the military situation in Afghanistan. I mean that sincerely. Clearly, you care about how things are not being run correctly there. They aren't, and they haven't been for a very long time. Part of me is happy the more people realize that, because the military has largely been left high and dry at a stupid, pointless task.

That said, you also really don't have a strong grasp of military operations, and seem committed to finding some kind of nefarious angle to a very sad but otherwise standard wartime event.

The difference between a 'green unit' and a 'green Soldier' is like the difference between a Freshman student and the Freshman class. The 160th SOAR is a limited asset that can't be everywhere at once. They do suffer breakdowns. If need be, SOF units will demean themselves to ride a mere National Guard airframe without checking the crew chiefs' resume.

The fact that you find that reckless or inexcusable just indicates you're pretty far removed from how the war really is conducted.

Anyway, I don't mean to demean your love of the troops or support of the mission, but it's irresponsible to try second guess commanders on the ground and rile people up at home with when you clearly aren't familiar with the subject matter.

38 posted on 08/07/2011 6:54:09 PM PDT by Steel Wolf ("Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master." - Gaius Sallustius Crispus)
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To: Steel Wolf

I have sent 100’s and make that with an “s” care packages to soldiers in Afghanistan.

I may not now the tactical aspect but there are some things I do know....and that is they are under supported...in many ways...and I also know that many are very unhappy about the Rules of Engagment..and I also know that there are some that are no longer in the military that think something is odd about this story.


39 posted on 08/07/2011 7:11:05 PM PDT by RummyChick (It's a Satan Sandwich with Satan Fries on the side - perfect for Obama 666)
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To: Doe Eyes

The point is, information is being leaked to leave an impression before the facts have been established.

PS. So what you are saying Chinooks are invulnerable to MANPADS. Please.


40 posted on 08/07/2011 7:26:34 PM PDT by ngat
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To: DBCJR

The Chinook airframe entered service in the 60’s. Has been upgraded numerous times, but is an old system, really. A very good one, but old. Do not underestimate the effectiveness of an RPG either. An aluminum skin is no match for an RPG.


41 posted on 08/07/2011 8:11:57 PM PDT by ExpatGator (I hate Illinois Nazis!)
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To: DBCJR

Waste ‘em!


42 posted on 08/07/2011 8:29:02 PM PDT by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: RummyChick

National Guard units have been cycled in and out, but there are going to be new people in each unit.


43 posted on 08/08/2011 3:02:01 AM PDT by GAB-1955 (I write books, love my wife, serve my nation, and believe in the Resurrection.)
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To: tanknetter

I am very proud of him and all the troops over there. They are fighting with their hand tied behind their backs though, and paying for it.


44 posted on 08/08/2011 5:03:08 AM PDT by kevslisababy
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To: ExpatGator
An aluminum skin is no match for an RPG.

The father of a friend of mine is a member of the 100-mission club for B-52 ops over Vietnam.

On one mission his aircraft had some kind of mechanical issue and had to divert to a South Vietnam airbase instead of going directly back to Guam. While waiting for his airplane to get fixed, a friend let him tag along on a mission in a UH-1.

The Huey he was in started to draw groundfire, and he instinctively ducked behind the door. The doorgunner was greatly amused, pulled out a pen and punched the thing clean through the stressed aluminum skin.
45 posted on 08/08/2011 5:24:38 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: tanknetter

Yep, Helo skin is to keep things in, not out.


46 posted on 08/08/2011 7:52:10 AM PDT by ExpatGator (I hate Illinois Nazis!)
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