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Rick Perry Answers the Dreaded "Evolution" Question (Mentions holes in the Theory of Evolution)
Evolution News ^ | 08/09/2011 | David Klinghoffer

Posted on 08/09/2011 5:59:42 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

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To: repub4ever1; RoadGumby
Wolves-—>Dogs....man made evolution on steroids... Humanoids-——>modern man....natural evolution at much slower speed

Well then it should be easy for you to take a bunch of apes and selectively breed them into chess masters. You can do it much faster than nature can. How would you propose to start? What trait would you select for? How about making the chimps play against each other round-robin style, and then breeding the ones with the top scores? How many generations does the theory of evolution say it would take before we get the first 2500+ banana-eating grandmaster?

51 posted on 08/11/2011 1:46:34 AM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode (<<== Click here to learn about Evolution!)
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To: repub4ever1

Nonhumans into non humans? Don’t think so.

Wolves into dogs is still canines, change in form but not a change into a non-canine.

Non-humans, chimps, lemurs, turtles, etc, can’t, won’t, didn’t change or evolve into humans


52 posted on 08/11/2011 4:06:29 AM PDT by RoadGumby (For God so loved the world)
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To: SeekAndFind
Not really a good answer at all, but an incoherent, rambling run-on sentence. Consider:

“There are clear indications from our people who have amazing intellectual capability “

Meaning, I suppose, there are claims of clear indications from (those of) our people, i.e. my co-religionists” (Amazing to whom? In comparison to Rick Perry? Then why are they not announcing their candidature?)

“that this didn't happen by accident and a creator put this in place.”

This would seem to be a reference to Scientific Creationism, a bankrupt and incoherent pseudoreligion in which whatever cannot be explained at present is attributed to the intervention of a Creator. This is a matter of faith, and not a conclusion to be drawn from an interpretation of geology or astronomy.

”Now, what was his time frame and how did he create the earth that we know? I'm not going to tell you that I've got the answers to that. I believe that we were created by this all-powerful supreme being”

By which all-powerful supreme being?

“and (concerning the question of) how we got to today versus what we look like thousands of years ago”

It is revealing that he specifies the time frame of thousands of years ago. We certainly looked and talked much the same as we do today thousands of years ago. It is more a question of tracking ancestry over more than a billion years, unless one is a young earth creationist.

”I think there's enough holes in the theory of evolution to, you know, say there are some holes in that theory..”

If only a complete evolutionary record, in which every single ancestor were itemized, in a list extending back to the first common ancestor, were sufficient evidence, then evolutionary theory is indeed irrefutable, and thus outside the realm of science. However that implicit standard cannot be met by any human knowledge. If this criterion were applied generally, it would be very similar to saying that, since the entire sequence of events leading to the collapse of the twin towers is not known in every single detail, then there must be a cover-up, and the official story is a conspiracy.

53 posted on 08/14/2011 6:54:18 AM PDT by Luminography (Paul Cumming)
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To: Luminography

OK, I get your point, you believe that Rick Perry either is a Creationist or an Intelligent design supporter.

Does this disqualify him to be President in your eyes?


54 posted on 08/14/2011 7:59:59 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (u)
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To: SeekAndFind

God created evolution.


55 posted on 08/14/2011 8:06:42 AM PDT by Andy from Chapel Hill
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To: Andy from Chapel Hill

Would that be the short answer Rick Perry should have given?


56 posted on 08/14/2011 8:13:46 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (u)
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To: SeekAndFind

When I say it, it usually ends the conversation.


57 posted on 08/14/2011 8:26:30 AM PDT by Andy from Chapel Hill
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To: SeekAndFind

Well, it’s none of my business, as I am not an American.
But I am a scientist, so it is my personal preference that political leaders should not have a distorted view of the natural world. Maybe you (and others) are right; it doesn’t matter what they believe, so long as they attempt to provide good government.


58 posted on 08/15/2011 2:30:13 AM PDT by Luminography (Paul Cumming)
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To: Luminography; Polybius; repub4ever1

So how do you explain polystrate fossils? Or the wolemi pine? Or the coelacanth? That’s just for starters too.

101 Evidences for a Young Age of the Earth...And the Universe
http://creation.com/age-of-the-earth

Center for Scientific Creation - In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood
http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/IntheBeginningTOC.html


59 posted on 08/15/2011 12:10:55 PM PDT by BrandtMichaels
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To: BrandtMichaels

I cannot explain those things since I’m not exactly sure what needs explaining. I have seen tree trunks standing in a flooded swamp...sometimes the trees can be 100s of years old (unless you dispute dendrochronology), and perhaps, under rare conditions, subject to subsidance and burial by a series of sedimentary deposits. It certainly isn’t common, nor are coelecanths (possibly a few hundred left) or wolemi pines (100 in the wild, but you can buy the seeds on-line). What is your point? Many islands and isolated ecosystems harbor rare endemic species. Sometimes isolated rare populations survive for a long, long time. Sort of like anachronist young earth creationists clinging to survival in the world of modern science.

And I mean real science, not phony degrees from mail-order bible colleges, like those brandished by (most of) your experts.

For your part, you have a lot of explaining to do, if you think the earth is only 6500 years old: a sedimentary column two miles thick, all neatly sorted in a matter of forty days on the crystaline granite crust, which somehow disappated all the heat from its transition from a molten state, all in a matter of a few years, basking in the light of seemingly distant stars and galaxies.

You, Sir, make me sad, as there will be no disuading you of your folly. A matter of pride, I expect. Which is a sin, perhaps the original sin.

By the way, why do young earth creationists always waffle about the age of the earth, giving some range between 6000 and 10000 years. What is wrong with Bishop Usher’s calculation? If your chronology is so damned accurate, you should be able to give a specific year for creation, and for the flood of Noah/Uttnapushtim. This would have an interesting consequence; you would haev to become very precise about when all the various independent methods for chronology suddenly become unreliable, i.e. at odds with your interpretation of the biblical account; there is not not very much time between the biblical flood and known dynasties in Egypt.

Oh, what’s the point!


60 posted on 08/17/2011 1:02:08 AM PDT by Luminography (Paul Cumming)
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To: Luminography

You state “I cannot explain those things...”
The reason I post is b/c at one time I too was trying to fit long ages and some truth to evolution - that was before I began studying the opposition - creation. Both use the same evidence yet reach different conclusions based upon reason and logic. It’s just that one [creation] does not ignore and hide certain evidence nor make absurd assumptions re: age dating techniques [uniformitarianism].

Lumin: “sometimes the trees can be 100s of years old (unless you dispute dendrochronology)”
Well from Walt’s book [2nd link] you need not 100s of years but millions of years and I don’t know of any tree that can survive millions of years while being slowly buried over eons in sediment. I do dispute carbon-dating, radio-isotopes, astronomical dating, and EVEN GASP dendrochronology when mis-interpreted w/ uniformity assumptions. My 1st link showed there are not any 100% accurate natural clocks AND most all do support a young earth rather than support even 1 million years. Heck if you have any integrity you’ll study both sides of the argument. Why even Einstein showed time is relative in relation to the strength of gravitational fields - calling into question long astronomical dates.

Lumin: “coelecanths...or wolemi pines... What is your point?”
Only that evolution dates these fossils at 65-100’s of millions of years old yet we have living copies w/ no intermediaries in the sedimentary record. Let’s see, the dinosaurs are dated at these same ages yet evolution can not adequately explain surviving soft tissue in a dinosaur femur bone [see my links page for more].

Lumin: “And I mean real science, not phony degrees from mail-order bible colleges, like those brandished by (most of) your experts.”
You would be hard-pressed to show me any mail-order degrees for these scientists in the link below who all support creation over evolution.

Dr. Walt Brown is a Ph.D. from MIT. for crying out loud.
Testimonies of Scientist who Believe the Bible:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2761001/posts

Lumin: “For your part, you have a lot of explaining to do” -That’s why I provide these links b/c they explain far more than I could begin to explain. Oh and it’s not just ‘40 days’ to lay down 2 miles of sediment but that’s in Walt’s book too. The heating you presume is dissipated by sub-terranean water pressurized and heated reaching super critical stage before a fissure erupts circum-navigating the globe [mid-oceanic trench] and an ice-age that followed the flood waters. These flood waters stayed upon the whole earth for 1 year covering even the highest mountain ranges by at least 18 feet. Here’s a hint the pre-flood mountains were no more than 1 mile high - see hydroplate theory in part II of Dr. Brown’s book.

Lumin:”all neatly sorted in a matter of forty days “
40 days is only the amount of time the fountains of the great deep were opened and rained down havoc on the whole earth and in all probability introduced the earth to earthquakes and volcanic eruptions.

Lumin: “You, Sir, make me sad, as there will be no disuading you of your folly. A matter of pride, I expect. Which is a sin, perhaps the original sin.”
Right back at ya - only what makes me sad is how many think it’s junk science without any real research - just accept the consensus of pride-filled scientists whose work is mostly filtered through the lens of the main stream media - the same ones who brought you global cooling in the 1970’s before global warming 20 or so years later and now followed by ‘climate change.’ Here’s another hint: If you want to encourage scientific cheating and corruption have the government grant ‘experts’ research money, then have the experts ‘peer-review’ each other, and let the media promote or hide whatever conclusions tickle ther fancy - ALL to reach the height of ridiculous conclusions that are all too often juxtaposed one against another.

Lumin: “By the way, why do young earth creationists always waffle about the age of the earth, giving some range between 6000 and 10000 years.” Did I waffle? Any science [incl evolution] involving history is not hard science as it is NOT repeatable. BTW tis a good thing that evos never waffle on their dates ehh?

Oh and one more thing - where in the scientific method are we allowed to ignore, hide or cover-up any evidence not in conformity w/ a scientific theory? Evolutions does this constantly and has had more fraud exposed than all the other fields of science combined. ‘Me thinks you doth protest too much.’

Really if you will not read for yourself then...
“Oh, what’s the point!”


61 posted on 08/17/2011 7:18:32 AM PDT by BrandtMichaels
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To: BrandtMichaels
My late father was a geochronologist; he devoted his career to refining radioisotopic methods for measuring the age of precambrian rocks (the ones deposited at the beginning of the flood! Har!). I guess you are right; he was engaged in a fourty-year long deliberate fraud.
Actually not. It is you who are full of kaka. The universe is ancient. In order to fit your schedule, you have to concoct bizarre pseudonaturalistic explanations for everything. What about the craters on the moon? They cooled off in a mighty hurry, without benefit of some super-heated steam engine. And Neanderthals (100 partial remains have been described) were just miserable arthritic guys with heavy brow ridges. Too bad for you that their DNA has been sequenced. I personally hope that they clone some, raise them better than Nim, and put them on the talk show circuit.

Here is a calculation for you: If you do not dispute continental drift, and if you assume that the flood caused the migration of the continents (never mind the earlier assemblages prior to Pangea), then: How much energy was dissipated when the continents, accelerated to a velocity of 4000 miles per 40 days, i.e. 4 miles per hour, and then screeched to a halt in a matter of days, reassuming their current lethargic motion of an inch per year? Hint: the roots of the continents are 40 miles deep, so you can calculate their mass assuming a mean density of 4 g/cc. Etc. Quite a head of steam! By my reckoning, the entire earth's crust would have heated red hot.

And the flightless birds in the Ark. Well most of them have gone extinct, so perhaps they never really existed. Childish fantasy, wrapped up in desparation. At least I KNOW that I am an arrogant person.

Yes, you can dig up a few of your people at MIT. But there is no serious scientific research being conducted in your field. Just a lot of rubbishy claims that the stars are not really as far away as they seem, cuz, let me think, the speed of light must have been a zillion times faster in the past (which would have made star formation impossible since the radiative heat transfer would have been too fast to sustain a thermonuclear reaction).

Yeps, you got an explanation for everything. You can squeeze a universe-sized square peg through the hole of a donut! Huzza! What comes out the other side? Kaka!

Paul

62 posted on 08/17/2011 10:54:27 AM PDT by Luminography (Paul Cumming)
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To: Luminography

My condolences for the loss of your father.

And also for your inability to read anything you disagree with.

There is nothing of substance in your last post. Just a bunch of straw men arguments. Certainly nothing I feel compelled to defend. The creation account aligns much more closely with all the evidence and fits logically.

Time will continue to discredit macro-evolution and common descent.


63 posted on 08/18/2011 11:49:18 AM PDT by BrandtMichaels
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To: BrandtMichaels
OK, I was lashing out! My bad!

However....I still would like to know how many intermediaries would be sufficient to constitute for you a compelling line of descent for a particular lineage, say birds. Quite a number of feathery reptiles are being described from deposits in China, not to mention ol’ archeopteryx.

And yes, National Geographic got suckered by a pastiche fossil from China a few years ago. And I once bought a fake antique, which does not mean that there are no real ones.

However the bird-like fossils represent a snapshot of speciation as occurred in a certain region and epoch, when and where circumstances were particularly favorable for fossilization of soft tissues. It sometimes seems as if only an unbroken sequence of every intermediary form, preferably flash-frozen and hygenically wrapped, would suffice to convince those who reject evolution.

A metaphore from comparative linguistics; only a few sources of anglosaxon literature are extant, by no means representing the entire range of regional dialects that once existed, and not necessarily representing the actual anticedents of modern English, in the manner of Chaucer's court language. But the general principle of development of the English language is well-charted, and we do not believe that English emerged from nowhere.

And the world really is 4.6 billion years old.

Paul

64 posted on 08/18/2011 1:44:19 PM PDT by Luminography (Paul Cumming)
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To: Luminography

Thanks. I do appreciate that most of your posts have been civilized, and I apologize as well for any of mine they may have offended you. Do you mind sharing what scientific degrees / displines from your background?

My profile shows I’m just a lowly B.S. computer geek, but I don’t let that stop me from continuing to study. Simply put more degrees require too much time and money for a family man.

Sorry but I don’t subscribe to archeopteryx as an intermediary fossil (see book ‘10 Icons of Evolution’) nor any other bird-dinosaur shared lineage. Common descent equates to common designer using the creation approach.

Same w/ neanderthals (who iirc share 99.9% DNA) equated w/ modern man so it appears to be another mis-interpretation.

From my perspective more and more highly degreed scientists are moving from the evolution viewpont to creation, but I don’t know of any moving in the opposite direction. Not that I’m subscribing to science by consensus but it is another strong indication that you should review this material before dismissing it outright. Afterall my last link shows scientists w/ many varied multiple disciplines from major accredited universities.


65 posted on 08/19/2011 7:42:10 AM PDT by BrandtMichaels
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To: Luminography

Lumin: “What about the craters on the moon?”
Walt Brown discusses this in his book.

Lumin: “How much energy was dissipated when the continents, accelerated to a velocity of 4000 miles per 40 days, i.e. 4 miles per hour”
Walt includes this calculation in part II of his book re: the Hydroplate theory. 40mph was the calculated speed iirc to explain the sedimentary layering found in the mountain ranges and also explains folding and inverted layers. Also the 40 days were only for the time period where the subterranean waters broke forth from under a 10 mile thick granite crust. Where the water was heated and pressurized to super critical (SCW) levels (i.e. w/ the right heat and pressure, SCW turns explosive where 1 pint = 1 stick of dynamite).

Lumin: “and then screeched to a halt in a matter of days”
I think it was more like slowed down considerably from plates impacting (and forming new mountain ranges which all parallel the mid-oceanic trench btw) w/ each other. They have never screeched to a halt which is why we still have continental drift, volcanoes, & earthquakes.

Lumin: “current lethargic motion of an inch per year?”
This is classic uniformitarianism to extrapolate long ages.
If you doubt the young ages simply begin by reviewing all the unknowns and assumptions w/ the 3 evolutionary age-dating techniques. Oh and please re-consider the xenolith anomolies from the 1980 mount St. Helens volcanic eruption.

Lumin: “the roots of the continents are 40 miles deep”
Or just 10 miles from Walt’s book and sliding/moving due to the SCW underneath.


66 posted on 08/19/2011 8:02:14 AM PDT by BrandtMichaels
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To: Luminography

Lumin: “how many intermediaries would be sufficient to constitute for you a compelling line of descent”
According to Charles Darwin’s own quote [paraphrased]
‘If you don’t find thousands upon thousands of transitional fossils than the theory of evolution [by common descent] completely falls apart’

I could intrepret that as 1000 x 1000 = 1 million but really there should be multitudes [extinct species do not count as transitional].

The fruit fly experiments proved that you can monkey with mutations in the DNA and in a very few generations everything returns to ‘normal’ as per the DNA programmed and highly intelligent [sophisticated way beyond man’s abilities] quadrenary code.

Code that unzips and rezips male/female w/ shared traits.

Code that corrects most every transcription error.

Code that creatse and repairs every major organ.

Code that includes some very high-level functions.

Code not limited to just mankind [i.e. dolphins have sonar, bird and insect can literally read and orient their migration paths according to the movement of the stars).

Code that must all be present rather than evolve (i.e. the bombardier beetle and his explosive defense mechanisms).

Code that allowsa caterpillar to go from goo to butterfly.

Code that screams for a much higher intelligence than mere men.


67 posted on 08/19/2011 8:19:24 AM PDT by BrandtMichaels
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