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Alzheimer's disease - a neurospirochetosis.
The Journal of NeuroInflamation ^ | August 4, 2011 | By Judith Miklossy, MD

Posted on 08/26/2011 1:12:38 PM PDT by Swordmaker

Alzheimer's disease - a neurospirochetosis. Analysis of the evidence following Koch's and Hill's criteria.

Judith Miklossy
Correspondence: Judith Miklossy judithmiklossy@bluewin.ch

Journal of Neuroinflammation 2011, 8:90 doi:10.1186/1742-2094-8-90

Published: 4 August 2011
Abstract (provisional)

It is established that chronic spirochetal infection can cause slowly progressive dementia, brain atrophy and amyloid deposition in late neurosyphilis. Recently it has been suggested that various types of spirochetes, in an analogous way to Treponema pallidum, could cause dementia and may be involved in the pathogenesis of Alzheimer's disease (AD). Here, we review all data available in the literature on the detection of spirochetes in AD and critically analyze the association and causal relationship between spirochetes and AD following established criteria of Koch and Hill. The results show a statistically significant association between spirochetes and AD (P = 1.5 x 10-17, OR = 20, 95% CI = 8-60, N = 247). When neutral techniques recognizing all types of spirochetes were used, or the highly prevalent periodontal pathogen Treponemas were analyzed, spirochetes were observed in the brain in more than 90% of AD cases. Borrelia burgdorferi was detected in the brain in 25.3% of AD cases analyzed and was 13 times more frequent in AD compared to controls. Periodontal pathogen Treponemas (T. pectinovorum, T. amylovorum, T. lecithinolyticum, T. maltophilum, T. medium, T. socranskii) and Borrelia burgdorferi were detected using species specific PCR and antibodies. Importantly, co-infection with several spirochetes occurs in AD. The pathological and biological hallmarks of AD were reproduced in vitro. The analysis of reviewed data following Koch's and Hill's postulates shows a probable causal relationship between neurospirochetosis and AD. Persisting inflammation and amyloid deposition initiated and sustained by chronic spirochetal infection form together with the various hypotheses suggested to play a role in the pathogenesis of AD a comprehensive entity. As suggested by Hill, once the probability of a causal relationship is established prompt action is needed. Support and attention should be given to this field of AD research. Spirochetal infection occurs years or decades before the manifestation of dementia. As adequate antibiotic and anti-inflammatory therapies are available, as in syphilis, one might prevent and eradicate dementia.

The complete article is available as a provisional PDF. The fully formatted PDF and HTML versions are in production.


TOPICS: Science
KEYWORDS: alzheimers; alzheimersdisease; bakingsoda; sciencediscovery
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I hope this post will save my fellow Freepers' lives! How? I am going to tell you what we have been telling our patients at my dental office for the past five years... Now that we have scientific PROOF that oral spirochetes DO INDEED CAUSE ALZHEIMER'S DISEASE and most likely also cause these other chronic plaque induced chronic diseases of heart disease and adult onset diabetes!

This is proof of an hypothesis that we have been pursuing in the dental office I manage and several other dental offices we are associated with. We started noticing that in very elderly patients who were alert, healthy, and did not have any chronic diseases of the heart, diabetes, or mental incapacity that their oral health was also exceedingly good. They also had something completely missing in their mouths. They had no oral spirochetes at all! There was a 100% correlation! Other dentists also were observing this fact. Oral spirochetes were observed in 85-90% of the population but about 10% of the population seems to naturally immune to them and in fact show none at all in their mouths.

One exception to this observation was the edentulous... those without teeth at all. Those who had had all teeth removed! They also were in excellent mental health at an old age, had far less chronic heart disease, and far less likelihood of adult onset diabetes... IF their teeth had been removed at an early age. Strange. Hmmmm.

Oral spirochetes are, we have been observing, associated very strongly with patients who have Alzheimer's Disease, age related dementia, chronic heart disease, and Type 2 Adult onset Diabetes, all diseases associated with plaques. This is the first peer reviewed paper that proves that oral spirochetes, the particular bacteria that we have been seeing under our phase contrast microscope, ARE indeed the cause of Alzheimer's disease.

The same researcher, Dr. Judith Miklossy, who is the president of the Alzheimer's Prevention Association of Europe, issued another peer reviewed paper in 2008, in which she reported that examination of the Islets of Langerhans in patients with Type 2 Diabetes were also rife with oral spirochetes—also further confirming our hypothesis—and mentioned in her 2008 paper that they should be investigated as a possible causal infection for diabetes along with other bacteria she noted.

Spirochetes are bad actors... they are the bacteria that cause syphisis, Yaws, Enug, Lyme disease, and a host of other very nasty diseases. The tertiary form of Syphilis the same dementia and is indistinguishable from Alzheimer's. Lyme disease can do the same dementia.

Oral Spirochete movie from Implant Dr DM at our office.

Another Spirochete movie from our office on youtube.

We have seen a spirochete invade a Leukocyte (white blood cell) and kill it, then leave the dead Leukocyte and go on its way, in one of these movies! We have put up movies on YouTube where the doctor has mentioned the futility using of toothpaste and Youtube, being a part of Google has PULLED them every time! So we don't mention it, anymore... Advertising is king.

In our office, as part of our investigation of the linkage of oral spirochetes to these chronic diseases, our investigation has found that there is an historical progression of the advance of the spread of these chronic diseases in the population associated with the usage of toothpaste. It's a trailing indicator of about 20 years or so, because these diseases take about 20 years to actually appear after the bugs develop in the mouth and migrate into the blood vessels through bleeding gums. However, in the 1910s and 1920s the United States pioneered the use of sweetened pumice in the form of toothpaste to clean teeth, replacing the tooth powder that had been almost universally used prior to then. Sweetened pumice toothpaste has essentially no antibacterial effect even today, no matter what is claimed! Pumice is even harder than the enamel of the tooth surface. It did clean the teeth... but it did not kill bacteria. As a result, 20-30 years down the road, we can see an upsurge in the chronic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, and Alzheimer's start to grow in the populations that adopt toothpaste teeth cleaning... and it's consistent as toothpaste oral hygiene spread from America to Europe to Asia, Latin America, and else where in the world, replacing the former usage of Toothpowder.

You may be asking yourselves what was the Tooth Powder our ancestors used that was supplanted by toothpaste. Some of you may already know. It was essentially ordinary Baking Soda with a little bit of common table salt. The table salt is unnecessary! Baking Soda has a FIVE SECOND kill time on bacteria! It's like dumping a load of poisonous rocks on the bug's heads! It is a mild abrasive that will also clean your teeth and leave your mouth smelling far fresher than toothpaste will! It's CHEAP! You probably have a box in your kitchen! Brush your teeth with Arm and Hammer Baking Soda and floss it down into the gums—the nasty bugs LOVE to stay down in the gingeva. If you have bleeding gums, you have a superhighway for them to enter your blood stream! We have started giving each of our patients an 8oz. box of Arm & Hammer Baking Soda (we buy them for 47¢ each at WalMart by the case. You can buy it by the bag for a lot less per pound) instead of the free toothpaste we used to give.

The protocol is to take a heaping teaspoon of Baking Soda—I do it when I am in the shower—and load your toothbrush with the Soda. Then holding the toothbrush at a 45º angle to the tooth, brush into the gums, working the baking soda into the gums. Use all of the Baking soda and hit all off the gums line. Brush your tongue and the back of your tongue with a tongue brush. Leave the residue. Do not rinse. You will get to like the taste.

The second part of the protocol (this is not so palatable... but you can do it) is once or twice a week take a cap full of Clorox™ brand BLUE CAP bleach—do not use an off brand as we do not know the purity of any other brand—and put it in a glass. Add TWENTY caps fulls of water to make a 20 to 1 dilute mixture of water to bleach... and swish that around in your mouth like mouthwash. It is merely very strong "swimming pool water", called Dakin's Solution, but it will KILL any remaining bacteria in your mouth. It is also the only known substance that will dissolve plaque! Don't worry if you swallow any of it. It will convert to ordinary table salt in your stomach!

If you follow this protocol, you will kill the bacteria that live in your mouth and hopefully prevent any future infection that may cause Alzheimer's, Heart Disease, and adult onset Type 2 Diabetes. We do NOT yet know the life cycle of the Spirochetes... we think they have to reproduce in the mouth... but we are not certain. Dr Miklossy, and other scientists looking at this, hypothesizes the plaques in the brain, Islets of Langerhans, and in the arteries and blood vessels are the left over bodies of dead, twisted entertwined spirochetes... mixed with who knows what... and no one knows if the body can clean up the mess of twenty to thirty years of that build up... but we gotta start somewhere. Cleaning up the source in the mouth seems like a good place!

You can STILL brush your teeth with toothpaste if you like... the Fluoride is still a good idea... but don't be fooled: Even the Arm & Hammer Baking Soda Tooth Paste doesn't have enough baking soda in it to make a difference... Alcohol based mouthwashes don't do it, either.

1 posted on 08/26/2011 1:12:44 PM PDT by Swordmaker
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To: Swordmaker
How can you tell if you have oral spirochetes?

Are they killed by antibiotics?

2 posted on 08/26/2011 1:19:26 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Palin is coming, and the Tea Party is coming with her.)
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To: Swordmaker

bumpety bump


3 posted on 08/26/2011 1:19:37 PM PDT by silverleaf (Common sense is not so common)
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To: Swordmaker

OK. Besides your sage advice on oral hygiene, am I to extract from this that spirochetes correlates with venereal syphilis, correlates with oral sex, correlates with Alzheimer’s?


4 posted on 08/26/2011 1:21:02 PM PDT by null and void (Day 945 of America's holiday from reality...)
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To: ~Kim4VRWC's~; 1234; Abundy; Action-America; acoulterfan; AFreeBird; Airwinger; Aliska; altair; ...
This is NOT an Apple/Mac Ping... I am pinging you in hopes of saving your life.

A medical researcher has just published a peer-reviewed paper in the Journal of NeuroInflamation which proves the hypothesis that the Dental office I manage has been working and researching for five years along with several others around the country.

Essentially, this researcher has found the causal link that shows what we have been telling our patients is true:

Alzheimer's Disease is caused by Oral Spirochetes invading your body through bleeding gums!

We think that in addition to Alzheimer's Disease, several other plaque related diseases, Chronic Artery Disease and Heart Disease, and Adult Onset Type 2 Diabetes, are also caused by Oral Spriochetes invading the body over long term exposure.

The full peer-reviewed paper is available at the link. It is heavy reading but well worth the time.

I am providing you with the prevention protocol we have been giving to our patients for the past five years in hopes it will save both your mind and your life.

Swordmaker

5 posted on 08/26/2011 1:25:28 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft product "insult" free zone.)
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To: Swordmaker

I was wondering if the blue cap bleach is a specific brand or is it Clorox bleach with a blue cap on the bottle?


6 posted on 08/26/2011 1:26:19 PM PDT by momtothree
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To: null and void
OK. Besides your sage advice on oral hygiene, am I to extract from this that spirochetes correlates with venereal syphilis, correlates with oral sex, correlates with Alzheimer’s?

No, Oral sex has nothing to do with it. You can get Oral Spirochetes by just living in the world. Eating anything... kissing... talking... they are everywhere. Some people, about 10% of the population, are naturally immune to them. Why? We haven't a clue. But 90% of our patients have naturally occurring oral spirochetes in their mouths. So long as they keep their gums healthy, they shouldn't be too much of a problem. The gums are a natural seal that keeps the only place the skeleton sticks through the skin... the teeth. That's why the edentulous who lost their teeth early are also healthier... no break in the skin means no access!

7 posted on 08/26/2011 1:30:36 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft product "insult" free zone.)
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To: Big Giant Head; Swordmaker

Scary ping. I wonder if this is directly related to the other thread, a drink a day keeps alzheimer’s away? Maybe the daily drink helps kill the little buggers.


8 posted on 08/26/2011 1:32:04 PM PDT by Marie Antoinette (Proud Clinton-hater since 1998.)
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To: Swordmaker

Interesting. Thanks.


9 posted on 08/26/2011 1:32:16 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: Swordmaker

OK, perhaps I’m not doomed after all...


10 posted on 08/26/2011 1:32:27 PM PDT by null and void (Day 945 of America's holiday from reality...)
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To: Swordmaker

Do you do the baking soda daily? Also, do you floss before or after the baking soda? I’ve always liked baking soda as a toothpaste but my dentist discouraged it as it is a bit abrasive. Very interesting.


11 posted on 08/26/2011 1:34:23 PM PDT by drjulie
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To: Swordmaker

Listerine kills them.

“First, if you look at what kills spirochetes making plaque in your mouth, you will notice that the key ingredients include four essential oils present in products like Listerine.
Further, we have been working with biological chemists who are extracting a wide range of natural chemicals from various botanicals. Some grow bacteria and others kill bacteria but hurt human membranes. Others kill bacteria and are profoundly safe.”

From here...
http://www.publichealthalert.org/Articles/jamesschaller/18_reasons_lyme_treatments_fail.htm


12 posted on 08/26/2011 1:35:03 PM PDT by netmilsmom (Happiness is a choice)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
How can you tell if you have oral spirochetes?
Are they killed by antibiotics?

We use a very expensive Nikon Phase Contrast Microscope... they are hard to see otherwise.

And yes, they can be killed by antibiotics... which ones I am not sure. The article says that Alzheimer's patients are affected by antibiotics "at first" but then continue on the course of the disease. That may be because it is a long term 20-30 year problem and it is too late by the time the dementia starts showing and the damage is done. Now that we KNOW the cause, earlier treatment may be effective, before the plaques have time to build up and cause the physiological changes to the brain.

13 posted on 08/26/2011 1:35:31 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft product "insult" free zone.)
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To: drjulie

I can’t use baking soda either. I have veneers. I was told NOT to use baking soda or salt because it scratches them.


14 posted on 08/26/2011 1:37:23 PM PDT by netmilsmom (Happiness is a choice)
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To: Swordmaker

Would you please check into the Listerine (because I can’t use baking soda) which kind works best and clarify about the “blue cap” bleach?

I’m 50 with Alzheimers in my family.


15 posted on 08/26/2011 1:39:25 PM PDT by netmilsmom (Happiness is a choice)
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To: momtothree
I was wondering if the blue cap bleach is a specific brand or is it Clorox bleach with a blue cap on the bottle?

It's the Clorox™ brand-name with a blue cap on the bottle. Clorox uses the caps to indicate specific sub-branding. The Blue Cap indicate pure bleach without any additives. No scents, etc. You really don't want any other chemicals added. We strongly don't recommend any other brand because we DON'T know what they have in them. The Clorox™ brand has stuck with this designation for years and is reliably chemically pure.

16 posted on 08/26/2011 1:40:28 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft product "insult" free zone.)
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To: Marie Antoinette
Scary ping. I wonder if this is directly related to the other thread, a drink a day keeps alzheimer’s away? Maybe the daily drink helps kill the little buggers.

Well, Alcohol is antibacterial, but... it's not as effective, nor does it really get all of them. But something is better than nothing, I guess. I haven't heard of flossing with whiskey...

17 posted on 08/26/2011 1:42:07 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft product "insult" free zone.)
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To: Swordmaker

Thank you for the information and posting, Swordmaker. I have used peroxide with baking soda a few times a week. However, I will also add the newer recommendations!


18 posted on 08/26/2011 1:44:35 PM PDT by momtothree
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To: Swordmaker

bump alzheimers and teeth/plaque


19 posted on 08/26/2011 1:46:01 PM PDT by Taffini ( Mr. Pippen and Mr. Waffles do not approve and neither do I)
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To: null and void
OK. Besides your sage advice on oral hygiene, am I to extract from this that spirochetes correlates with venereal syphilis, correlates with oral sex, correlates with Alzheimer’s?

Oh, If I recall the full article correctly, she did find a correlation with the spirochetes that cause syphilis in AD patients, but it was only 69% while the Oral spirochetes were 95%. It's hard to tell how much was what in those cases... The symptoms of both are almost identical in the tertiary stages...

20 posted on 08/26/2011 1:46:16 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft product "insult" free zone.)
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To: Swordmaker
Makes ABSOLUTE SENSE.

Will read over the weekend.

Consider yourself *HIGHLY* commended.

Cheers!

21 posted on 08/26/2011 1:46:32 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Swordmaker; Judith Anne; SunkenCiv; decimon; 60Gunner; Myrddin; Robert A. Cook, PE; neverdem; ...
*PING* (Possibly controversial but well worth reading.)

Thanks, Swordmaker.

22 posted on 08/26/2011 1:49:05 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Swordmaker

Wow, that’s some dental office you’ve got there! Thanks for the info.


23 posted on 08/26/2011 1:49:49 PM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: netmilsmom
Listerine kills them.

Sorry, no. It doesn't. Trust me... we've been researching these bugs for five years. The doctor who's office I manage is one of the top impantologists in the world... and essential oils in Listerine just do not kill the spirochetes well enough to do the job. We wish it did.

24 posted on 08/26/2011 1:49:54 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft product "insult" free zone.)
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To: momtothree

I rinse my mouth daily with colloidal silver solution. Should do the trick! And NO, I am not turning blue.


25 posted on 08/26/2011 1:50:01 PM PDT by Gadsden1st
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To: Swordmaker

Sorry, Swordmaker, another question popped in my mind. Can children use the clorox with water as a rinse as well? My youngest is 5... can she use it as well?


26 posted on 08/26/2011 1:50:26 PM PDT by momtothree
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To: netmilsmom

It makes sense that baking soda would scratch veneers. My mom has alzheimer’s and type 2 diabetes. It really motivates me to keep up with the research. Interestingly, she was diagnosed with both of these diseases at the same time.


27 posted on 08/26/2011 1:50:42 PM PDT by drjulie
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To: Swordmaker
Very interesting. I had an old aunt whose husband died of a massive heart attack. A couple of months prior he was experiencing pain in his chest. The old country doc said he needed to extract all my uncle's teeth immediately. My aunt begged her husband not to have his teeth pulled. She blamed herself for his heart attack until the day she died.

I always thought it was the ramblings of a crazy old lady...

28 posted on 08/26/2011 1:51:08 PM PDT by old and tired
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To: Swordmaker

I was told that H2O2 would weaken enamel. What would laundry bleach do?


29 posted on 08/26/2011 1:52:41 PM PDT by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: drjulie
I’ve always liked baking soda as a toothpaste but my dentist discouraged it as it is a bit abrasive.

Interesting because I had been brushing with Baking S prior to my last dental visit and told my hygienist of that fact and she applauded me.......

30 posted on 08/26/2011 1:52:56 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (FREE YOUR BREASTS! FREE YOUR MIND!)
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To: netmilsmom
I can’t use baking soda either. I have veneers.

I have veneers also and the Baking soda has no effect on them........FWIW

31 posted on 08/26/2011 1:54:55 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (FREE YOUR BREASTS! FREE YOUR MIND!)
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To: Swordmaker
How do oral spirochetes react to

1) Sucrose

2) Glucose

3) Fructose

4) HFCS

5) Insulin

6) Glucagon

??

You can STILL brush your teeth with toothpaste if you like... the Fluoride is still a good idea... but don't be fooled: Even the Arm & Hammer Baking Soda Tooth Paste doesn't have enough baking soda in it to make a difference... Alcohol based mouthwashes don't do it, either.

I once read that alcohol-based mouthwashes have a dessicating effect on the tissues of the mouth and so over time are associated with oral carcinomas.

I switched to cetylpyridinium chloride 0.07% rinse.

Also -- do you know if any OTC preparations such as "PLAX" are effective at breaking up the plaque?

Cheers!

32 posted on 08/26/2011 1:55:20 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Swordmaker
a neurospirochetosis.

That's what I've been saying all along!

33 posted on 08/26/2011 1:56:43 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: Swordmaker
It's the Clorox™ brand-name with a blue cap on the bottle.

What about diluted Hydrogen Peroxide?

34 posted on 08/26/2011 1:56:43 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (FREE YOUR BREASTS! FREE YOUR MIND!)
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To: Swordmaker

I brush my teeth with a mixture of hydrogen peroxide and baking soda. Maybe I’m on to something and didn’t even know it.


35 posted on 08/26/2011 1:56:47 PM PDT by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: Swordmaker
Does 3% or 1.5% hydrogen peroxide either kill spirochetes or break up plaque?

Cheers!

36 posted on 08/26/2011 1:57:23 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: netmilsmom
“First, if you look at what kills spirochetes making plaque in your mouth, you will notice that the key ingredients include four essential oils present in products like Listerine. Further, we have been working with biological chemists who are extracting a wide range of natural chemicals from various botanicals. Some grow bacteria and others kill bacteria but hurt human membranes. Others kill bacteria and are profoundly safe.”

Another thing that that link has wrong is his assertion that the essential oils will do anything to the plaques... he is wrong. There is only one thing that will affect the plaques in the mouth... that is the Sodium Hypochlorite—bleach—that is found in Clorox. It will dissolve it. Unfortunately it will also dissolve human skin.

37 posted on 08/26/2011 1:57:31 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft product "insult" free zone.)
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To: momtothree
I was wondering if the blue cap bleach is a specific brand or is it Clorox bleach with a blue cap on the bottle?

Oh, I forgot to mention. You have to make the 20-1 solution up new every day. You can't make up a big batch and keep it. It doesn't keep beyond a few hours at best.

38 posted on 08/26/2011 1:59:26 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft product "insult" free zone.)
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To: Swordmaker

Bump for later and thank you!!


39 posted on 08/26/2011 2:00:36 PM PDT by DLfromthedesert
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To: grey_whiskers
Thanks for the ping. As an undergraduate in pathogenic bacteriology I was certain that we had already discovered all the bacteria associated with disease. Then along came Helicobacter pylori, causative agent of stomach ulcers and as of earlier this year, implicated in Parkinson's of all things. Guess we didn't really knew what we thought we did.

So I'd be reluctant to dismiss this one out of hand. And yeah, I'd vote to fund a study or three, if the drowning polar bear studies can spare the cash.

40 posted on 08/26/2011 2:00:48 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Swordmaker

What about hydrogen peroxide instead of the Clorox?


41 posted on 08/26/2011 2:03:15 PM PDT by old and tired
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To: Liberty Wins

Check this out! And a simple cheap preventative!


42 posted on 08/26/2011 2:05:36 PM PDT by Valpal1 ("No clever arrangement of bad eggs ever made a good omelet." ~ C.S. Lewis)
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To: drjulie
Do you do the baking soda daily? Also, do you floss before or after the baking soda? I’ve always liked baking soda as a toothpaste but my dentist discouraged it as it is a bit abrasive. Very interesting.

Daily. Floss with the baking soda... work it down into the gums. And your dentist is an idiot. Pumice is far harder than the enamel of your teeth... while baking soda is only 90% as hard as enamel, so it can't scratch it. Pumice in toothpaste will erode your enamel, baking soda will not.

The dentist at my office started as an engineer in the space program... and works with dental materials science... and is a full professor at the University of Alabama Mobile, Department of Dental Materials. They made him one just so he could give two lectures a year there! He has more alphabet after his title of DDS than we have room for on his letterhead. He was the Keynote speaker at the Indian Society of Oral Implantology in Pune India, just outside of Mumbai, in January, where they made him a National Scholar (although he's not Indian), with a special funny hat and orange scarf and all that... sort of an Indian Nobel (without the money). Trust him.

43 posted on 08/26/2011 2:09:33 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft product "insult" free zone.)
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To: Swordmaker

Will hydrogen peroxide work instead of bleach? Many years ago an old dentist told me to use baking soda as a teeth cleaner and then rinse with hydrogen peroxide. He said tooth decay is caused by the acid produced when bacteria eat the substances on our teeth and the acid eats into the teeth. The baking soda neutralizes the acid and the HP3 kills the bacteria. Sounded like a win-win.


44 posted on 08/26/2011 2:10:40 PM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (I retain the right to be inconsistent, contradictory and even flat-out wrong!)
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To: netmilsmom
I can’t use baking soda either. I have veneers. I was told NOT to use baking soda or salt because it scratches them.

Bull Pucky... It's softer than the material of the veneers! Don't use salt. What did they make their veneers out of? Plastic???

45 posted on 08/26/2011 2:11:45 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft product "insult" free zone.)
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To: netmilsmom

What if you just mixed them with water and used one of those irrigators at the gum line?


46 posted on 08/26/2011 2:13:37 PM PDT by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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To: Swordmaker
While it might be unfair to make a judgment on the basis of an abstract and your less than rigorous anecdotal evidence following the abstract; I do not see in what's presented here that Koch and Hill postulates are really being followed to imply causality.

Hill (it has always seemed to me) is somewhat more subjective and I won't address Hill's criteria. But there are two problems in the Koch postulates as applied in the abstract, to wit:

First Postulate:

"The microorganism will occur in every case of the disease and can explain the pathology and clinical changes associated with the disease (specificity)"

You don't make the claim that spirochetes are seen in all cases, just 90%. That is actually a violation of Koch, not a confirmation.

For example: long before AIDs mechanisms were known or even hypothesized, a number of other candidate viral causes (HTLV, Cytomegalo virus) were ruled out because these were not seen in all cases, whereas HIV was. [But HTLV particularly was seen in the early days in "nearly" all cases.]

Second Postulate:

The microorganism must be shown to be distinct from any others that might be found with the disease.

Again, there is no evidence that you have made this finding to the exclusion of all other possibilities, and indeed seem to muddy the waters by claiming that multiple spirochetes have to be present. OK, then, what else might also necessarily be present? And please note that although you satisfy the third Koch requirement: that the result can be produced in vitro, that mitigates against, but does NOT entirely answer the issue with the 2nd criterion, because it is always possible that effects produced in vitro still require additional precursors, catalysts, or factors in vivo.

Are these issues actually addressed in the full article?

47 posted on 08/26/2011 2:18:09 PM PDT by FredZarguna (Skeptical, particularly of claims that a conspiracy of bad oral hygiene is responsible.)
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To: Swordmaker

This is an interesting hypothesis, BUT - not only has it been around for a long time, but it has been held questionable for a long time. Try this 1993 reference:

http://journals.lww.com/neuroreport/Citation/1993/07000/Alzheimer_s_disease_and_spirochetes__a.1.aspx


48 posted on 08/26/2011 2:23:56 PM PDT by BlazingArizona
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To: Swordmaker

I do trust this. I use baking soda and peroxide 3x/week. Make a paste and floss it into the gum line. When I started doing this, about 20 years ago, my physician relatives all snickered and made comments about my being impressed with the foaming action. I have ignored them, as they have been wrong about H. pylori and several other newer therapies that work.

I have a couple of questions, though:

1) Does baking soda or peroxide or bleach solution damage bonding? While I have bonding on 3 teeth, I have only had degradation on one incisor. I was blaming the baking soda/peroxide, even though it didn’t make sense, since the other bonded teeth were fine.

2) I have been on a low dose doxycycline for posterior stye (chalazion) off and on for a few years. I notice when I am on doxy, my mouth is much fresher in the morning. I assume it is attacking oral bacteria. Doxycycline is also used in Lyme’s therapy. Do you have any info on that?


49 posted on 08/26/2011 2:27:52 PM PDT by reformedliberal
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To: netmilsmom
Would you please check into the Listerine (because I can’t use baking soda) which kind works best and clarify about the “blue cap” bleach?

Blue cap bleach is CLOROX™ brand bleach with out additives... make it fresh every day you use it. That alone will do the trick... if you won't use the baking soda... but make sure you get it down into the gums. Don't use the Clorox every day. It will dissolve your skin.

I don't know why your dentist told you that baking soda was so abrasive (MOHS hardness scale 2.5) but it is very low compared to toothpaste... which has PUMICE (MOHS hardness scale 6), lava suspended in it... mostly ground volcanic glass. That is about 20% harder than your own enamel (MOHS hardness scale 5) of your teeth... and will scratch porcelain (MOHS hardness scale 3.5 to 6). Even if your veneers were plastic (MOHS hardness scale 3.5) baking soda would not scratch it! NetMilMom, this is science and engineering... and this is not open to opinion. You can look these things up on the net.

You are free to believe your dentist... but he is an engineering idiot who apparently slept through class.

Again, my doctor was also a full professor of Dentistry at University of California San Francisco... he has 30 years of experience in Dental Materials science. I think I'd believe him.

50 posted on 08/26/2011 2:28:53 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft product "insult" free zone.)
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