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Ind. vouchers prompt thousands to change schools
AP ^ | Aug. 28, 2011 | TOM COYNE

Posted on 08/28/2011 10:39:08 AM PDT by PROCON

SOUTH BEND, Ind. (AP) - Weeks after Indiana began the nation's broadest school voucher program, thousands of students have transferred from public to private schools, causing a spike in enrollment at some Catholic institutions that were only recently on the brink of closing for lack of pupils. It's a scenario public school advocates have long feared: Students fleeing local districts in large numbers, taking with them vital tax dollars that often end up at parochial schools. Opponents say the practice violates the separation of church and state.

(Excerpt) Read more at breitbart.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Education
KEYWORDS: homeschool; indiana; schoolchoice; schoolvouchers; vouchers
I'm sure some "loiyer" will eventually find a judge who will declare this "unconstitutional", but good for Indiana.
1 posted on 08/28/2011 10:39:12 AM PDT by PROCON
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To: PROCON

Opponents could never say it threatens their Marxist mission.


2 posted on 08/28/2011 10:41:21 AM PDT by Mr. Binnacle
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To: PROCON

This is the wrong fight. We need to get over the idea that there are or ever were “good” schools. The whole idea of warehousing children is monstrous and has never had anything to do with education.


3 posted on 08/28/2011 10:46:16 AM PDT by Forgotten Amendments (Days .... Weeks ..... Months .....)
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To: PROCON

The state isn’t FORCING kids into religious schools so how is this violating the separation of church and state?


4 posted on 08/28/2011 10:46:29 AM PDT by nodumbblonde ("The ladder of success is best climbed by stepping on the rungs of opportunity." - Ayn Rand)
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To: nodumbblonde

The state isn’t FORCING kids into religious schools so how is this violating the separation of church and state?/

Lib marxists don’t want to face the fact that PARENTS are in charge of their children, not the state. Good on my Indiana. I live near SB and I have noticed more uniform clothing being bought where I work.


5 posted on 08/28/2011 10:51:51 AM PDT by mardi59
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To: PROCON
People don't realize that all our early colleges were bascially "Christian Run" schools.

Religion is part of the American way.

6 posted on 08/28/2011 10:52:40 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: mardi59
I went to a parochial grade school. I think we had one student that wasn't Catholic (in my class), and she didn't take catechism class.

And that was around 1970.

I'm sure her parents would have loved to have had the county pick up the cost at the time.

7 posted on 08/28/2011 10:56:28 AM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: nodumbblonde

Not only “not forcing” students to go to parochial schools, but actually helping the government schools.

After all, haven’t we heard over and over again how there is not enough money to educate a child now? With all these costs being transferred to the private schools with the loss of each student, each government school should be able to narrow this deficit. /sarc

Oldplayer

Oldplayer


8 posted on 08/28/2011 10:57:20 AM PDT by oldplayer
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To: PROCON

Students fleeing local districts in large numbers, taking with them vital tax dollars....How does that Happen?


9 posted on 08/28/2011 11:01:11 AM PDT by Safetgiver (I'd rather die under a free American sky than live under a Socialist regime.)
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To: PROCON
I'm sure some "loiyer" will eventually find a judge who will declare this "unconstitutional", but good for Indiana.

The have repeatedly and lost in SCOTUS. The last case they lost was last April.

Mueller v. Allen, Zelman v. Simmons-Harris, and Arizona Christian School Tuition Organization v. Winn, 09-987, and Garriott v. Winn, 09-991.

10 posted on 08/28/2011 11:07:08 AM PDT by ALPAPilot
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To: PROCON

The idea that there is a separation of Church and State...is false and was taken right out of the Marxist handbook. The following article is a good explanation of the “evolution” of our Constitution-—it is all the same....repeat the Big Lie and it becomes the Truth.

Everyone should understand WHY this lie was promoted in the 40’s by a Marxist court....and the phrase was taken out of context by a corrupt court to establish atheism/humanism in a profoundly Christian nation. In the 30’s the cultural Marxists (do your research) stated that to destroy America from within you had to destroy the two pillars of Western Civilization: Christianity and the natural family unit.

Since then—they destroyed the Rule of Law—made arbitrary (inequal law) which denies parents the natural right to raise their children with their worldview in local schools (centralized schools are unconstitutional—even state design of curricula). They also destroyed the marriage contract—just like Lenin—to make it meaningless. There is no equal rights in the contract when you allow no-fault which treats people who destroy the contract the same as the one who honors it. Not done in any other “contracts” but the marriage one-—makes it a joke. Lenin did the same in Russia to destroy the natural family.

Ideas matter—they shape events and cultures and the ‘worldview” of children. We have the Marxists shaping our laws and brainwashing in the schools—instead of the Christian paradigm which is the basis of all our laws and philosophy of Natural Law Theory—where Natural Rights come from God.

The worldview of our Founders is being intentionally destroyed which destroys our Constitution when we do not honor its meaning and intent.

You can NOT separate God from our legal system. Marxist do that and worse...they legitimate ALL beliefs like Wicca and godless ones which would have been condemned by the logic of our rational legal system for 200 years. We no longer have “Right Reason according to Nature (Natural Law Theory which presupposes God’s laws and standards of right and wrong.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/987191/posts


11 posted on 08/28/2011 11:11:37 AM PDT by savagesusie
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To: mardi59

Back in my Franciscan HS, we wore unis. The good part is that girls know you’re in HS and sometimes get a discount on some stuff. The bad part: you look like a dork if you go into the city and begging for a beatdown.

Either way, the charter schools usually don’t allow unions into their staff so that is why the MSM-AP is throwing a hissy fit.


12 posted on 08/28/2011 11:20:29 AM PDT by max americana (FUBO NATION 2012 FK BARAK)
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To: max americana

I had to wear a uni until I started public school. I went to Assumption Catholic school then Franklin Public. Sad thing was I was the smartest kid in class. Everyone else seemed to be years behind. Sad


13 posted on 08/28/2011 11:24:29 AM PDT by mardi59
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To: PROCON

Imagine that, Indiana following the lead of a backward Southern state like Louisiana.


14 posted on 08/28/2011 11:28:03 AM PDT by BBell
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To: mardi59

We even had yearly courses on Christian Studies which I aced. Then right after was science, where they teach you about the big boom theory. In Christian Studies, they teach you the Almighty created the world in 7 days, then go to science class and they teach you about dinosaurs etc. Miraculously, our class was a smart one that we could grasp the difference.


15 posted on 08/28/2011 11:38:04 AM PDT by max americana (FUBO NATION 2012 FK BARAK)
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To: max americana

Sadly some do not grasp the difference. I’m glad your class did.

The difference between public and parochial edu. is amazing.


16 posted on 08/28/2011 11:43:38 AM PDT by mardi59
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To: PROCON
Opponents say the practice violates the separation of church and state.

Bu**$h*t

17 posted on 08/28/2011 11:45:37 AM PDT by ThomasMore (Islam is the Whore of Babylon!)
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To: PROCON

The unions know this, and are terrified.


18 posted on 08/28/2011 11:46:46 AM PDT by P.O.E. (Pray for America)
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To: mardi59

>The difference between public and parochial edu. is amazing.<

Gosh, the difference is “hugh” LOL. It’s like comparing a toilet to a throne. BTW, we weren’t exactly saints’ in HS. Our senior class went down in history as the one “that teachers tried to avoid”. But it all worked out well. My class have guys who now work for Microsoft, Vizio, Cisco Systems, BAE etc.


19 posted on 08/28/2011 11:53:35 AM PDT by max americana (FUBO NATION 2012 FK BARAK)
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To: max americana
The bad part: you look like a dork if you go into the city and begging for a beatdown.

Cry me a river. All students have to wear the same uniforms. Guess what. Dress code and uniforms is the first line of defense and offense when it comes to discipline. My grandchildren have all very much benefited from parochial school education and discipline where they have to wear a uniform(that is morally acceptable). And an added benefit. No peer pressure for parents to be dressing them in "designer anything" clothing.

Public schools benefit when they conform to the practice but liberal society has made it politically incorrect. I say "Voucher System" in every state. It's the parents money. Let them spend it on a school of their choice.

20 posted on 08/28/2011 11:54:28 AM PDT by ThomasMore (Islam is the Whore of Babylon!)
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To: max americana

Fantastic! I used to love saying the pledge (including under God) and then going to church before class. It gave a feeling of security.

That’s what a good education does. That’s why libs hate it so much. You get a great education, love of God and country, whereas public schools just don’t care for the most part.


21 posted on 08/28/2011 12:01:08 PM PDT by mardi59
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To: Forgotten Amendments

How is it wrong for parents to CHOOSE to send their kids to parochial schools. This is awesome news. :)


22 posted on 08/28/2011 12:07:43 PM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman!)
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To: mardi59

Actually, it was the Lord’s Prayer and the raising of the flag before entering class. You almost never see that anymore.

We even had a sister school, St Scholastica, where you see in the movies the boys school would visit the coed school? Yeah, that happened every semester. I would make sure to get 10 girls’ phone numbers LOL.


23 posted on 08/28/2011 12:17:36 PM PDT by max americana (FUBO NATION 2012 FK BARAK)
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To: PROCON
It's a scenario public school advocates have long feared:

Yes. Dictators fear a free Republic.
24 posted on 08/28/2011 12:20:35 PM PDT by PA Engineer (SP/XX12: Time to beat the swords of government tyranny into the plowshares of freedom.)
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To: max americana

That sounds about right... the phone numbers. The sisters at our school didn’t take any nonsense and could use a ruler like a Jedi Knight. Oh the memories. LOL


25 posted on 08/28/2011 12:27:18 PM PDT by mardi59
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To: Forgotten Amendments

And your ideal educational environment is...?


26 posted on 08/28/2011 12:35:18 PM PDT by BwanaNdege (“Man has often lost his way, but modern man has lost his address” - Gilbert K. Chesterton)
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To: Sacajaweau

“Most of the colleges in the United States that started over 300 years ago were Bible-proclaiming schools originally. Harvard and Yale (originally Puritan) and Princeton (originally Presbyterian) once had rich Christian histories.

Harvard was named after a Christian minister. Yale was started by clergymen, and Princeton’s first year of class was taught by Reverend Jonathan Dickinson. Princeton’s crest still says “Dei sub numine viget,” which is Latin for “Under God she flourishes.”

In the United Kingdom, the earliest university-type establishment was probably the College, established by the Celtic preacher St. Illtyd in about AD 500. Oxford University was established by various religious orders. Likewise, Cambridge University was established in 1209 by Christian leaders. Saint Andrews, Scotland’s oldest university, was founded principally for the teaching and study of theology. The commitment of these religious founders might be suspect, but many of the later colleges were founded by Bible-believing Christians. The University of Edinburgh had a thoroughly evangelical beginning, being founded under Presbyterian auspices.”

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n3/harvard-yale-princeton-oxford-once-christian


27 posted on 08/28/2011 12:40:50 PM PDT by BwanaNdege (“Man has often lost his way, but modern man has lost his address” - Gilbert K. Chesterton)
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To: BBell

“Imagine that, Indiana following the lead of a backward Southern state like Louisiana.”

You obviously have NOT read the MSM style book.

The phrase is NOT “a backward Southern state”. It must be written “Backward-Southern-State”. There are no other types of Southern states. Florida south of Ft Pierce does not count, as there are sufficient enlightened people from the North to serve as an antidote.

/sarc


28 posted on 08/28/2011 12:49:56 PM PDT by BwanaNdege (“Man has often lost his way, but modern man has lost his address” - Gilbert K. Chesterton)
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To: PROCON

Parents just ought to say I have a right to send my kid to the school I want. My tax dollars, my right. You don’t want to give me a voucher, stop forcing me to pay public school taxes that I don’t use.


29 posted on 08/28/2011 12:50:44 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: PROCON
Taking the money can be a Trojan horse.

They may demand the stings of controlling the curriculum.

30 posted on 08/28/2011 12:56:16 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (We kneel to no prince but the Prince of Peace)
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To: BwanaNdege
And your ideal educational environment is...?

HOME!!!

31 posted on 08/28/2011 1:37:32 PM PDT by Forgotten Amendments (Days .... Weeks ..... Months .....)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks PROCON.


32 posted on 08/28/2011 4:37:18 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Safetgiver
"Students fleeing local districts in large numbers, taking with them vital tax dollars....How does that Happen?"

Schools get tax dollars based on number of students... 1 less student = "x" less tax dollars. 2 less Students = "2x" less tax dollars. Further if I read the Indiana Law right those Vouchers are funded with Tax Dollars. (Though much less than what the public school got for the student)

I wish when my daughter was going to Catholic School we could have gotten a voucher!

33 posted on 08/28/2011 4:48:31 PM PDT by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: PROCON
Students fleeing local districts in large numbers, taking with them vital tax dollars that often end up at parochial schools.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Vital? Really? Vital to whom? Huh?

Answer: Vital to the Union and the Democrat slush fund.

34 posted on 08/28/2011 4:51:19 PM PDT by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
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To: ThomasMore
It's the parents money. Let them spend it on a school of their choice.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It's only partly from the parents. The rest comes from those who do not have children of K-12 age.

Ideally there should be complete separation of school and state. All education (**ALL** )should be completely and totally privatized. If vouchers, tax credits, and charters lead in that direction then I support them. If they lead to government control of private education then I don't.

35 posted on 08/28/2011 4:58:01 PM PDT by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
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To: BwanaNdege; Forgotten Amendments
And your ideal educational environment is...?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The most ideal and natural way to rear up healthy, emotionally confident, and well educated children is to homeschool.

Yes, some children will need to be institutionalized. It is a shame. Some parents are just too stupid, too materialistic, too selfish, too career minded, too mentally ill, too poor, too illiterate, too disorganized, etc., to homeschool. We need orphanages, too, but no one is claiming this is the best way to rear a child.

36 posted on 08/28/2011 5:05:10 PM PDT by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
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To: Sacajaweau

The first colleges in America weren’t “’Christian Run’ schools” ... they were seminaries where religious leaders were trained.


37 posted on 08/28/2011 5:10:57 PM PDT by Stegall Tx (Joined the Obama economy on 19 March, 2010. Found part-time work on 12 Feb, 2011.)
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To: mardi59

Okay, let me get this straight for the liberal rule book I’m trying to put together:

I’m qualified to choose whether or not to abort my baby but not qualified enough to decide where my non-aborted baby receives an education?


38 posted on 08/28/2011 5:17:58 PM PDT by nodumbblonde ("The ladder of success is best climbed by stepping on the rungs of opportunity." - Ayn Rand)
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To: nodumbblonde
I’m qualified to choose whether or not to abort my baby but not qualified enough to decide where my non-aborted baby receives an education?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

In Marxist-land, a 12 or 13 year old is mature enough to “elect” an abortion and find a capable baby butcher, but her parents are too uncaring and too stupid to choose a private school.

39 posted on 08/28/2011 5:27:56 PM PDT by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
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To: nodumbblonde

Keeping the status quo is easier than
innovating. If vouchers are going to “siphon money from government schools” why isn’t the same true in higher education?

I don’t hear state college professors running around crying about Pell grant(”government dollars”)money “unfairly” being used to attend St.Thomas,Gustavus,St.Johns or other private religiously affiliated schools.

What happened to the magic wall between “church and state” there?


40 posted on 08/29/2011 5:53:39 AM PDT by WOBBLY BOB (My mind is like a steel trap: rusty and illegal in 37 states.)
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To: WOBBLY BOB

Wow, that is an excellent point I hadn’t even considered! In that instance, government is directly funding that religion-based education.

You must have to be a complete control freak to be a lib. In every instance, it’s OUR money the government is using to dictate every aspect of our lives. Liberals are encouraging of that on a collective scale and yet would freak out if someone walked into their home, took control of their checkbook and started dictating financial and lifestyle choices on an individual level.

Thanks, Wobbly! You’ve given me something to chew on today! LOL


41 posted on 08/29/2011 7:11:49 AM PDT by nodumbblonde ("The ladder of success is best climbed by stepping on the rungs of opportunity." - Ayn Rand)
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To: savagesusie

Excellent post, savagesusie!


42 posted on 08/29/2011 7:18:46 AM PDT by nodumbblonde ("The ladder of success is best climbed by stepping on the rungs of opportunity." - Ayn Rand)
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To: BBell

Hey, cut us some slack! We ARE trying here! LOL

Have you seen what our poor little state is surrounded by? And we have Gary as a handicap! Lol

I will say I believe the southern influence has helped us. Due to industry, many southerners have migrated here over the years and many even settled our state bringing those southern values with them. Sadly, we also have to deal with the unions those same industries created.


43 posted on 08/29/2011 7:39:03 AM PDT by nodumbblonde ("The ladder of success is best climbed by stepping on the rungs of opportunity." - Ayn Rand)
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To: PROCON
(The First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, also contained in the first Section of the Bill of Rights):

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF."

The ACLU can take a hike. The Supremes won't tamper with this basic right at all.

Leni

44 posted on 08/29/2011 7:40:56 AM PDT by MinuteGal (Too Bad Those of Us who Work for a Living Have to Support Those who Vote for a Living)
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To: PROCON

I’ll bet most anything that these vouchers are actually less than what would have been spent by the state in a public school - reslting in increased savings.


45 posted on 08/29/2011 8:00:35 AM PDT by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Mad Dawgg

This must be Obananomics. If you have less students, it makes sense to me the teacher’s workload is less, thus he shouldn’t be paid more, but less. I understand your point, but this just illustrates how forked up the situation is. In my district they get money by how many kids get free breakfast, free lunch etc. so every damned kid in the district is eligible. They throw out 85% of the food, according to the FACT the pig farmer went from an every other day schedule to pick up food scraps to twice a day since this went into effect (and we have less kids). Pigs are fatter, though.


46 posted on 08/29/2011 12:23:47 PM PDT by Safetgiver (I'd rather die under a free American sky than live under a Socialist regime.)
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To: nodumbblonde
I have a lot of relatives in Indiana and I have lived there myself.

Maybe you can get Gary to secede to Illinois. After all Gary Is like Chicago East. A lot of Lake County is like Chicago east.

47 posted on 08/29/2011 2:56:35 PM PDT by BBell
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To: BBell

I’d be happy to slap a big bow on Gary and give it to Illinois for Christmas.

Oops, it’s Illinois... for “Winter Holiday” or whatever PC term they’re using these days.


48 posted on 08/29/2011 4:47:56 PM PDT by nodumbblonde ("The ladder of success is best climbed by stepping on the rungs of opportunity." - Ayn Rand)
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