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Svante Paabo: DNA clues to our inner Neanderthal
Daily Exchange ^ | Wednesday, August 31, 2011 | Ted Talks (?)

Posted on 09/03/2011 6:15:38 AM PDT by SunkenCiv

Sharing the results of a massive, worldwide study, geneticist Svante Pääbo shows the DNA proof that early humans mated with Neanderthals after we moved out of Africa. (Yes, many of us have Neanderthal DNA.) He also shows how a tiny bone from a baby finger was enough to identify a whole new humanoid species. Svante Pääbo explores human genetic evolution by analyzing DNA extracted from ancient sources, including mummies, an Ice Age hunter and the bone fragments of Neanderthals.

(Excerpt) Read more at exchangemagazine.com ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; neandertal; neandertals; neanderthal; neanderthals
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Svante Paabo: DNA clues to our inner neanderthal Svante Paabo: DNA clues to our inner neanderthal

1 posted on 09/03/2011 6:15:42 AM PDT by SunkenCiv
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To: SunkenCiv
He also shows how a tiny bone from a baby finger was enough to identify a whole new humanoid species.

Which, in a nutshell, defines the inherent and complete idiocy of claiming that "hominid palaentology" is "science."

2 posted on 09/03/2011 6:17:39 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus ("A gentleman considers what is just; a small man considers what is expedient.")
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; 31R1O; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
There's a link (not an embed) to the mp4 video, I listened to it as well as I could at work yesterday, running it three times in succession because, well, it's work, which is where I work when I work.
The Neandertal Enigma
by James Shreeve

in local libraries
Frayer's own reading of the record reveals a number of overlooked traits that clearly and specifically link the Neandertals to the Cro-Magnons. One such trait is the shape of the opening of the nerve canal in the lower jaw, a spot where dentists often give a pain-blocking injection. In many Neandertal, the upper portion of the opening is covered by a broad bony ridge, a curious feature also carried by a significant number of Cro-Magnons. But none of the alleged 'ancestors of us all' fossils from Africa have it, and it is extremely rare in modern people outside Europe." [pp 126-127]
To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


3 posted on 09/03/2011 6:19:28 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
DNA was found in the finger bone ~ and, as everyone knows, DNA is microscopic YET it controls every physical essence of our being.

So what's idiotic here?

4 posted on 09/03/2011 6:25:22 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
"Yes, many of us have Neanderthal DNA."

Stating the obvious! The Democrat Party and the entire staff of the New York Times, for example, are obviously Neanderthals. We didn't need DNA to prove it.

In fact, judging from the U.S. electorate, homosapiens DNA is probably less prevalent than Neandethal in the population.

5 posted on 09/03/2011 6:25:26 AM PDT by Savage Beast ("That is the great eternal question: Are 'Liberals' evil or stupid?" ~Ann Coulter)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

The inventor of the technique was a young Earth creationist and Biblical catastrophist, so you may be onto something there.


6 posted on 09/03/2011 6:25:50 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Savage Beast

Neandertal ancestry is the only thing western civilization has going for it.


7 posted on 09/03/2011 6:27:59 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

If “modern man” coexisted with the neanderthal, then it wasn’t evolution was it?


8 posted on 09/03/2011 6:33:16 AM PDT by G Larry (I dream of a day when a man is judged by the content of his character)
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To: SunkenCiv
Neanderthal genetic research site at UCSC referred to in the video.
9 posted on 09/03/2011 6:36:10 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (When you've only heard lies your entire life, the truth sounds insane.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Fascinating stuff. I’ve often thought I would like to turn my talents towards examining fossils and learning what ancient life was like. But since I’ve never actually encountered a paleontological/molecular biological research group dedicated to such study, and medical research has tons of opportunities and is quite lucrative, I simply have not seriously looked into making such a career change.


10 posted on 09/03/2011 6:40:42 AM PDT by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: G Larry
If “modern man” coexisted with the neanderthal, then it wasn’t evolution was it?

There is nothing about evolution which precludes newer species from existing side by side with older species.

11 posted on 09/03/2011 6:43:32 AM PDT by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
Which, in a nutshell, defines the inherent and complete idiocy of claiming that “hominid palaentology” is “science.”

when you are scrambling around for minuscule amounts of DNA and the like....your science is limited considerably...

that does not make it not science...on the contrary it makes it exceptional science to be able to eek out what they got from the lack of evidence...This does not make their findings rote gospel...this makes it a great beginning towards the ultimate answers....

12 posted on 09/03/2011 6:44:33 AM PDT by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: SunkenCiv

I’m confused. He said that Neandethals were never in Africa. And yet “modern man” came out of Africa and mixed with them.

How is that possible? He’s suggesting that two species of humanoids developed completely independantly and yet could interbreed.

I don’t dispute that we probably mixed with whatever was close to us, I do dispute that Neanderthals were never in Africa. Did they not almost have to have ancestors in common or they wouldn’t have been able to breed?

Instruct me, SunkenCiv, where am I going wrong?


13 posted on 09/03/2011 6:52:27 AM PDT by FrogMom (There is no such thing as an honest democrat!)
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To: FrogMom

They (and we) had common ancestors. One of the foolish errors made over and over, perhaps beginning with R. Virchow, is to claim that different looks means different origins.


14 posted on 09/03/2011 6:57:23 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

An interesting question would be “Who has the MOST Neanderthal genetic makeup?”. Since the percentage varies.


15 posted on 09/03/2011 6:58:17 AM PDT by DaxtonBrown (HARRY: Money Mob & Influence (See my Expose on Reid on amazon.com written by me!))
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To: SunkenCiv
The inventor of the technique was a young Earth creationist and Biblical catastrophist

That's the only thing I can see to recommend it. His error, however, is in adopting the flawed mindset of the evolutionist.

16 posted on 09/03/2011 7:00:25 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus ("A gentleman considers what is just; a small man considers what is expedient.")
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To: DaxtonBrown
An interesting question would be “Who has the MOST Neanderthal genetic makeup?”

Mike Tyson.

17 posted on 09/03/2011 7:01:53 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus ("A gentleman considers what is just; a small man considers what is expedient.")
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus; DaxtonBrown
An interesting question would be “Who has the MOST Neanderthal genetic makeup?”

Mike Tyson.


From strictly a genetic point of view: more likely Carrot Top.
18 posted on 09/03/2011 7:03:52 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: G Larry

Thanks, but that’s a pretty stupid thing to say, and it was the first couple of thousand times someone said it on FR.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answers/topic/arguments-we-dont-use

Arguments that should never be used
...

7. If we evolved from apes, apes shouldn’t exist today. (In an evolutionary worldview, mankind did not evolve from apes but from an apelike ancestor, from which both humans and apes of today supposedly evolved.)


19 posted on 09/03/2011 7:04:28 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv
"Neandertal ancestry is the only thing western civilization has going for it."

Neandertal ancestry is the best thing western civilization has going for it.

20 posted on 09/03/2011 7:04:52 AM PDT by blam
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To: muawiyah; PapaBear3625; exDemMom; Vaquero

Thanks!


21 posted on 09/03/2011 7:06:01 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

Defending evolution is pretty stupid, given the lack of fossil evidence.


22 posted on 09/03/2011 7:06:33 AM PDT by G Larry (I dream of a day when a man is judged by the content of his character)
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To: blam

(’: I stand corrected. :’)


23 posted on 09/03/2011 7:08:25 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Troglodyte "The Greatest "Lil' John" Rinaldi sketch ever"
24 posted on 09/03/2011 7:12:31 AM PDT by P.O.E. (Pray for America)
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To: G Larry

IOW, you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about, but you do keep talking.


25 posted on 09/03/2011 7:13:15 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: G Larry
We have DNA. Fossils are a whole 'nuther matter.

Back in the good old days when they were piddling around trying to fit bones together it was hard to get a good fit so you could figure out hair color. Now we know the Neanderthals had red hair, and if you think that's a problem ..... well, it's not a problem. There are 200 million people in this world with red hair and even more with mixed colored hair and they don't think it's funny at all. So, if you want to laugh and joke about it watch your back. They are lurking around night and day ready to fly into a rage, flash those blue/green eyes and use whatever is handy as a cudgel.

It was good for the Neanderthals to be redheads. Life was tough back in the day.

(NOTE DNA researchers say it was a different gene than the modern gene for red hair, but the principle is the same ~ and there's a reason the saber toothed tigers are gone).

26 posted on 09/03/2011 7:15:18 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: SunkenCiv

So you have fossil evidence for transition from one species to another, across the animal kingdom.
That should be rich, there’s lots of folk who’d like to see that.

Why’d they go to all the trouble to invent crazy theories to explain the lack of a fossil record.


27 posted on 09/03/2011 7:21:15 AM PDT by G Larry (I dream of a day when a man is judged by the content of his character)
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To: muawiyah
(NOTE DNA researchers say it was a different gene than the modern gene for red hair, but the principle is the same ~ and there's a reason the saber toothed tigers are gone).

Is the fact that the red hair gene is different a new finding?

The first time I ever saw the proposition that Neanderthals and homo sapiens had interbred, part of the evidence presented was that both Neanderthals and modern humans have members with red hair. I'll admit that I was not convinced by the argument; it's completely possible for color pigments in different species to arise independently. (With the new genetic evidence, I'm still on the fence about the whole thing; if Neanderthals and homo sapiens were interbreeding, then they weren't different species.)

28 posted on 09/03/2011 7:25:53 AM PDT by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: G Larry

Don’t you know that all fossils are transitional?

Begging the question is so easy that even a Neanderthal can do it...


29 posted on 09/03/2011 7:26:22 AM PDT by GourmetDan (Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
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To: G Larry

Don’t you know that all fossils are transitional?

Begging the question is so easy that even a Neanderthal can do it...


30 posted on 09/03/2011 7:26:24 AM PDT by GourmetDan (Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
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To: muawiyah; G Larry

Unfortunately, with DNA evidence on people long dead, you have much the same problem as the old bone-splicers of old - which is that modern investigators are piecing together disparate pieces of evidence to make them fit the picture that has already been pre-determined. In other words, the evidence tends to be made to fit the theory, instead of the other way around.


31 posted on 09/03/2011 7:27:05 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus ("A gentleman considers what is just; a small man considers what is expedient.")
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To: G Larry
So you have fossil evidence for transition from one species to another, across the animal kingdom. That should be rich, there’s lots of folk who’d like to see that.

Why’d they go to all the trouble to invent crazy theories to explain the lack of a fossil record.

Of course, it was the plethora of such evidence that led to the formulation of the theory of evolution. Without the abundant evidence, I doubt anyone would have come up with such a theory... or else, it would have been relegated to crackpotdom, much like those shows I see on the history channel featuring "experts" explaining their "theories" that life on Earth was seeded by extraterrestrials.

32 posted on 09/03/2011 7:30:13 AM PDT by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

DNA is the new standard because the fossil ‘record’ didn’t work out. It will take a few years for ‘science’ to figure out that DNA doesn’t support evolution either, but never fear, there will be a new standard by then with lots of wiggle-room that just happens to support evolution.


33 posted on 09/03/2011 7:30:13 AM PDT by GourmetDan (Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
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To: exDemMom
In England interspecies breeding happens all the time ~ they've even stopped trains to watch.

But, that's a different issue. There's NO REASON to think of the Neanderthal as a different species ~ more like a different "race" I am sure.

One hypothesis about how they survived the Northern climate during SEVERAL ice ages is that they had twins in every pregnancy. That kicked their reproductive rate up to match the need.

That probably gave them four active mammaries.

Again, we digress. I'm still POd at the dentist for busting through that bony plate the first time I had Novocaine. It hurt.

34 posted on 09/03/2011 7:32:27 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
Unfortunately, with DNA evidence on people long dead, you have much the same problem as the old bone-splicers of old - which is that modern investigators are piecing together disparate pieces of evidence to make them fit the picture that has already been pre-determined. In other words, the evidence tends to be made to fit the theory, instead of the other way around.

The evidence fits the theory because the theory is just that good.

It also has great predictive power; without the theory of evolution to use as a guide, I'm not sure how we would use evidence collected about, e.g., a metabolic pathway in one species to make predictions about a similar metabolic pathway in a different species.

35 posted on 09/03/2011 7:34:20 AM PDT by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: exDemMom
"Of course, it was the plethora of such evidence that led to the formulation of the theory of evolution. Without the abundant evidence, I doubt anyone would have come up with such a theory... or else, it would have been relegated to crackpotdom, much like those shows I see on the history channel featuring "experts" explaining their "theories" that life on Earth was seeded by extraterrestrials."

Of course. That's why Chapter 6 of Origins was titled "Absence or Rarity of Transitional Varieties" and Chapter 10 of Origins was titled "On the Imperfection of the Geological Record".

36 posted on 09/03/2011 7:36:54 AM PDT by GourmetDan (Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
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To: muawiyah
"That probably gave them four active mammaries."

Now there's an argument against 'natural selection'...

37 posted on 09/03/2011 7:38:25 AM PDT by GourmetDan (Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
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To: GourmetDan
Yet, you and I have different alleles of certain genes ~ and there's a reason for that.

We are usually not identical copies of each other. DNA is probably a far more complex chemical than we realize. There are probably super computers in there coded in a way we do not yet understand ~ and presumably they work in very small dimensions using quantum processes. What those processes might tap into is unknowable at present.

It is tempting to think DNA is linked to a great universal overmind ~ which enables it to not only be all things to all men, but also to be all men, all critters, all living things anywhere, under virtually all conditions.

38 posted on 09/03/2011 7:39:01 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: exDemMom
"It also has great predictive power; without the theory of evolution to use as a guide, I'm not sure how we would use evidence collected about, e.g., a metabolic pathway in one species to make predictions about a similar metabolic pathway in a different species."

Let's see. Metabolic pathways between dog and wolf, similar. Metabolic pathways between dog and fungus, dissimilar.

Yep, where would we be without 'evolution' to help us solve the deep questions of life...

39 posted on 09/03/2011 7:40:54 AM PDT by GourmetDan (Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
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To: GourmetDan
DNA is the new standard because the fossil ‘record’ didn’t work out. It will take a few years for ‘science’ to figure out that DNA doesn’t support evolution either, but never fear, there will be a new standard by then with lots of wiggle-room that just happens to support evolution.

Well, the thing is, people tend to treat DNA as if it were some sort of magic wand that answers all questions. It's not. DNA is merely a piece of evidence, just like fossilised bones are pieces of evidence.

The trick comes in how people choose to interpret the evidence. Evolutionists often choose to do so circularly.

40 posted on 09/03/2011 7:41:45 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus ("A gentleman considers what is just; a small man considers what is expedient.")
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To: GourmetDan
A resource you might enjoy.
41 posted on 09/03/2011 7:45:51 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus ("A gentleman considers what is just; a small man considers what is expedient.")
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
NO...not Mike Tyson...

the Africans do not have the neanderthal genes...the Africans that left Africa 35000 years ago and became the European Cro Magnon until they mated with neanderthal(according to what some believe including myself) and became the European Homosapiens...

42 posted on 09/03/2011 7:46:16 AM PDT by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: blam
Neandertal ancestry is the best thing western civilization has going for it.

AMEN!!!!

43 posted on 09/03/2011 7:48:09 AM PDT by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: muawiyah
"Yet, you and I have different alleles of certain genes ~ and there's a reason for that."

Wow, that is profound.

"We are usually not identical copies of each other."

Wow, the pearls of wisdom just keep flowing.

"DNA is probably a far more complex chemical than we realize."

Oh my, you're getting close to my post #33.

"There are probably super computers in there coded in a way we do not yet understand ~ and presumably they work in very small dimensions using quantum processes. What those processes might tap into is unknowable at present."

And we all know that supercomputers design and program themselves.

"It is tempting to think DNA is linked to a great universal overmind ~ which enables it to not only be all things to all men, but also to be all men, all critters, all living things anywhere, under virtually all conditions."

People used to fixate on fossils, now it's DNA. In a few years it will be something else. All purported to 'support' evolution until the don't by which time 'science' is off to the next great thing which won't support evolution when it is fully understood either.

Yet 'science' never learns that the evidence doesn't support evolution because evolution is a philosophy supported by fallacy.

44 posted on 09/03/2011 7:48:09 AM PDT by GourmetDan (Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
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To: muawiyah

I’m just reading a book by Gilbert Ling which suggests that DNA is just a toolkit used by the cell which is actually the cytoplasm.


45 posted on 09/03/2011 7:50:11 AM PDT by MetaThought
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

I’m actually the list-owner for the TrueOrigin yahoo group.


46 posted on 09/03/2011 7:54:38 AM PDT by GourmetDan (Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Which scientist do you believe? NOVA ran a series this week on the evolution of man. They said in this show that the entire Neanderthal genome has now been sequenced and that from this evidence there was no interbreeding between modern man and Neanderthals for 200,000 years.


47 posted on 09/03/2011 7:58:47 AM PDT by DManA
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To: GourmetDan

Where are the fossils filling the transition gap between species A and Species B, in the cases where theorists allege such a transition occurred?


48 posted on 09/03/2011 7:58:58 AM PDT by G Larry (I dream of a day when a man is judged by the content of his character)
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To: GourmetDan
You missed a very subtle point. I didn't mention evolution in that litany.

Why do you find it necessary to bring it up?

49 posted on 09/03/2011 8:00:46 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Because that’s what I was talking about and you responded to me.

Is that hard to understand?


50 posted on 09/03/2011 8:02:03 AM PDT by GourmetDan (Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
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