Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Conditions in Nelson's navy uncovered by scientists
Telegraph ^ | Saturday, September 3, 2011 | Nick Collins

Posted on 09/03/2011 7:14:51 PM PDT by SunkenCiv

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-54 next last
More than six per cent of sailors in Nelson's navy, were amputees, many of whom died as a result of operations that went wrong Photo: ALAMY

More than six per cent of sailors in Nelson's navy, were amputees, many of whom died as a result of operations that went wrong Photo: ALAMY

1 posted on 09/03/2011 7:14:56 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]


 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


2 posted on 09/03/2011 7:15:54 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Nelson was an amputee.


3 posted on 09/03/2011 7:18:52 PM PDT by doggieboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

bump ya scurvy cag!

:p


4 posted on 09/03/2011 7:24:07 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
During the run-up to the anniversary of Trafalgar one is reminded that it is still possible to tour HMS Victory, Nelson's flagship at Trafalgar, still commissioned in service to the Royal Navy and serving as a museum. A tour of the ship is a fascinating experience and it makes plain the extreme hardship endured by the crew of the ship standing blockade off the French coast in all weather and in all seas.

The ship was unheated save for one cook stove so it is no surprise that respiratory diseases were rampant among the crew and I would think that it was a far more debilitating cause of casualties than battle with the French or battle against the French disease (syphilis). Once impregnated with salt, the crew's clothes simply never got dry.

As one descends the decks he sees that the headroom shrinks at each level and probably explains why young boys were used as "powder monkeys", described in the article, because they could run at full speed without ducking to retrieve shot and powder from below during battle.

I recommend a visit To HMS Victory to anyone who has the opportunity.


5 posted on 09/03/2011 7:37:50 PM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
Okay...what funny guy added "lesseroftwoweevils" to the key word list??


6 posted on 09/03/2011 7:38:57 PM PDT by Artemis Webb (Perry 2012! A Conservative who can win!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Rum, sodomy and the lash.


7 posted on 09/03/2011 7:42:08 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (O-blame-r)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

I’ll be the first man to admit I could have NEVER made it as a sailor back in those days. Tough bastards all.


8 posted on 09/03/2011 7:42:31 PM PDT by Free Vulcan (Vote Republican! [You can vote Democrat when you're dead])
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nathanbedford

I haven’t toured HMS Victory, but seeing Old Ironsides made much the same impression. Can’t imagine living like that, especially sending kids to sea. Sailors must have been short.


9 posted on 09/03/2011 7:44:09 PM PDT by Jedidah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

They thought they had scurvy, but then discovered they were just british.

10 posted on 09/03/2011 7:44:57 PM PDT by Snickering Hound
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Maybe the lower class sailors that were pressed into service were buried at sea?


11 posted on 09/03/2011 7:47:49 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open ( <o> ---)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Artemis Webb

To the weevil!


12 posted on 09/03/2011 7:48:25 PM PDT by Overtaxed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Snickering Hound

*snort*


13 posted on 09/03/2011 7:56:10 PM PDT by Yardstick
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: nathanbedford

didn’t they also use women as “power monkeys” and who knows what else?


14 posted on 09/03/2011 7:58:47 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Just doesn’t seem proper to disturb “Royal Navy Graveyards” for such..... Sort of like digging up veterans at Arlington two hundred years from now isn’t it ?


15 posted on 09/03/2011 8:00:02 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

“Firstly you must always implicitly obey orders, without attempting to form any opinion of your own regarding their propriety. Secondly, you must consider every man your enemy who speaks ill of your king; and thirdly you must hate a Frenchman as you hate the devil.”

Vice Admiral of the White The Right Honourable Horatio, Viscount Nelson, Knight of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath, Baron Nelson, of the Nile and of Burnham Thorpe in the County of Norfolk, Baron Nelson, of the Nile and of Hillborough in the County of Norfolk, Duke of Bronte in the nobility of the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies, Knight of the Grand Cross of the Order of St Ferdinand and of Merit and a Knight of the Ottoman Empire’s Order of the Crescent,Knight Grand Commander of the Order of St Joachim, Colonel of the Marines, Freeman of Norwich, Bath, Yarmouth, London, Salisbury and Exeter.


16 posted on 09/03/2011 8:00:08 PM PDT by Bean Counter (Obama got mostly Ds and Fs all through college and law school. Keep saying it.....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Artemis Webb
Which it aint a problem to be asayin it!...




P. Killick
17 posted on 09/03/2011 8:02:57 PM PDT by 45semi (If Islamicists possessed anthrax, do you doubt that they would have used it on us?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Overtaxed
The HMS Weevil?
18 posted on 09/03/2011 8:04:35 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Free Vulcan
I'll be the first to say, I would never have gotten on any of those ship to sail to the new world. Never

Send me a post card. (but I'm glad some of mine did)

In fact to go further, I would not have gone WEST, lol. That mode of transportation (wagons),is not for me. (but again glad they did)

19 posted on 09/03/2011 8:14:47 PM PDT by annieokie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: GeronL

Always choose the lesser of two weevils.


20 posted on 09/03/2011 8:16:57 PM PDT by Overtaxed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

of course they weren’t from the lower classes. The press gangs took men from all walks of life and tough sh** if they didn’t like it. Probably took from the middle classes because they were better educated and on the average made better sailors than the lower classes would have.


21 posted on 09/03/2011 8:17:42 PM PDT by calex59
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Geeze. They needed to paw through bones to learn that? A casual search through a good research library would have revealed that.

Seafaring in the sixteenth through eighteenth centuries was a dangerous trade. So dangerous that serving in the navy was probably safer than serving on a merchant vessel. With larger crews they were more likely to survive the hazards of the sea.

John Paul Jones got his first command (of a merchantman) when every officer aboard the ship he was sailing back to Britain on died of disease. No one else in the crew could navigate. Jones was a passenger, and he knew how to navigate, so the crew had him sail the ship back to Britain, and the owners made him captain when he arrived.


22 posted on 09/03/2011 8:26:27 PM PDT by No Truce With Kings (Ten years on FreeRepublic and counting.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: No Truce With Kings

Thanks for sharing that. I love trivia like that. J P Jones was an interesting character.


23 posted on 09/03/2011 8:31:42 PM PDT by unkus (Silence Is Consent)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Who said something about Sodomy, rum and the lash being the three great traditions of the Royal Navy again???


24 posted on 09/03/2011 8:34:42 PM PDT by Nat Turner (I can see NOVEMBER 2012 from my house....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: annieokie

Was totally amazed the first time I crossed the continental divide...with roads some signs would still say Use 1st gear only......you could look down the side of the mountains and alway see some car hundreds of feet below that didn’t make the curve....and to do it in a covered wagon.....they don’t make people like that anymore....soft times make for soft people....coming down the mountain was worse than going up....and we were pulling a camper...yikes, the young are nuts....:O) That was back in the 80’s.....don’t know about the interstates now in that area....


25 posted on 09/03/2011 8:38:09 PM PDT by goat granny
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: calex59

“The press gangs took men from all walks of life and tough sh** if they didn’t like it. Probably took from the middle classes because they were better educated and on the average made better sailors than the lower classes would have.”

Ah. . . no. Not regularly at any rate. That is a myth. Bad novels and bad movies (and even a few bad history books)not withstanding, only “seamen, seafaring men, and persons whose occupations or callings are to work in vessels and boats upon rivers” were subject to impressment. And the press was only used during national emergencies, not during times of peace.

Officers did not want unskilled men on their ships. They could get enough of those. So a press gang that came back with nothing but landsmen — especially middle-class landsmen — were liable to get their grog stopped.

Pressing someone who was in the middle classes — whether a skilled tradesman or a member of the gentry — was also liable to prove expensive to the officer foolish enough to try it. If the victim could prove that he was not liable to the press, he could sue the officer for damages and generally win. A jury of that victim’s peers were not likely to encourage behavior that could get *them* serving involuntarily on a King’s Ship.

Yes, men other than mariners served involuntarily in the Royal Navy. But even that was “voluntary” — they were given a choice between volunteering for patriotic duty in the Royal Navy and being hung for a crime of which they had been convicted.

(And if you are wondering why — if only those liable for the impressment were ‘pressed — the US got into a war with Britain over the British impressing American citizens, it is that those Americans that got ‘pressed were mariners, therefore fair game in British eyes.)


26 posted on 09/03/2011 8:42:02 PM PDT by No Truce With Kings (Ten years on FreeRepublic and counting.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

I love the Age of Sail!

“We’ll render passing honors, Mr. Bush!”


27 posted on 09/03/2011 8:48:55 PM PDT by El Sordo (The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Nat Turner
I believe it was Winston Churchill.

“Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash.”

28 posted on 09/03/2011 9:09:46 PM PDT by El Sordo (The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Great thread!


29 posted on 09/03/2011 9:53:33 PM PDT by The_Media_never_lie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

News flash! Skeletons reveal people living in 18th and 19th century suffer from 18th and 9th century conditions!


30 posted on 09/03/2011 9:56:22 PM PDT by Grizzled Bear (No More RINOs!!! Laz for President!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: goat granny
Oh, you are bringing back memories. I remember those days, in dads old 49 Chevy. Going across NM, AZ to Calif. from Okla.

HOT, oh my, no a/c. Windows all down, water bottle thingy in front of the radiator. Stopping for oil, flat tires, water and to let the car cool down. Bagged Lunch in a rest stop, sleeping outdoors or in the car. If we had enough money (later trips), we would get to stay in a REAL MOTEL, & eat in a real CAFE, rofl.

Up and down those mountains on 2 lane roads,in those cars, yikes. Hold your breath and don't say a word. (Desi and Lucy comes to mind in that trailer).

BUT NO, not in those Wagons, and it was very dangerous in the wild west in those times. Mine made it, as I can atest, wink. Strong women for sure. I do love to think of them often, as I do genealogy and know how they came to America and traveled West.

Very strong men as well, but I said stong women as it was much harder on them.

31 posted on 09/03/2011 10:16:10 PM PDT by annieokie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Artemis Webb

If anybody here hasn’t read the Maturin/Aubrey series by Patrick O’Brian, you are missing out. It is a great set of books.


32 posted on 09/03/2011 10:22:25 PM PDT by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Squantos

That was my first thought . Are they digging up graves to do tests ? If so , disgusting .


33 posted on 09/03/2011 10:40:42 PM PDT by katykelly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: The_Media_never_lie

Thanks! I had little idea that there would be any kind of response at all, I surprised and pleased. :’)


34 posted on 09/03/2011 11:19:45 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Artemis Webb; Overtaxed; GeronL

;’)


35 posted on 09/03/2011 11:22:17 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: GeronL

http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DSU6-A3BXauM
http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DDjd2hFw07NU
http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DCD6oq8Jz8zE
http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DShkEqaGb-GY


36 posted on 09/03/2011 11:23:24 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: doggieboy

“You don’t think we’d eat an admiral like that all at once, do ya?”


37 posted on 09/03/2011 11:24:16 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: nathanbedford; Jedidah; annieokie; goat granny

Thanks all; I’ve never seen HMS Victory, but have been on the USS Constitution, and the low headers would take some getting used to. I love wooden ships, but had I been in the navy, the advent of all-steel vessels would have been very welcome. Y’know, until all navies were built that way, and shooting started again. :’)


38 posted on 09/03/2011 11:30:12 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

bump


39 posted on 09/03/2011 11:32:51 PM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: No Truce With Kings; unkus; Squantos; Grizzled Bear; katykelly

then you really might not want to see this, about John Paul Jones:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2497955/posts?page=28#28


40 posted on 09/03/2011 11:39:22 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Mike Darancette; Free Vulcan; Snickering Hound; smokingfrog; Yardstick; Bean Counter; 45semi; ...

Thanks!

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/back-from-the-dead


41 posted on 09/03/2011 11:42:39 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
>>> Conditions in Nelson's navy uncovered by scientists

The worst part of being in Nelson's navy would have had to be the weekly octopus or squid attack.


42 posted on 09/03/2011 11:58:51 PM PDT by tlb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tlb

I remember hating basketball because my weekly game was the same night ‘Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea’ aired.


43 posted on 09/04/2011 12:16:37 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Lord Nelson

God bless you...you saved us from being less than we are


44 posted on 09/04/2011 12:17:44 AM PDT by wardaddy (I will vote for whomever my dog tells me to)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: El Sordo

The days of iron men and wooden ships


45 posted on 09/04/2011 4:12:27 AM PDT by X Fretensis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

There is a not so subtle difference. John Paul Jones was dug out from under some shop that was built over a cemetery in Paris. His remains were moved to a new crypt in the chapel at Annapolis, where his body lies in a blue grey marble sarcophagus riding on the back of 4 marble dolphins. It is pretty awesome.


46 posted on 09/04/2011 6:49:32 AM PDT by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: X Fretensis

Only proves that people rise to the needs of their day. Just as our people braved the seas to come to a wilderness, fought in terrible wars, and served in wooden coffins at sea. They were made of strong stuff. If pushed, such men and women still walk the streets of England and The United States. I see in the English speaking world great strength. We are —as a group—idealists, and right thinkers who never give up. I recall what a Japanese POW on Tarawa said: “I knew we had lost when the Marine kept coming at us with there guts hanging out.” (or words to that effect). We should be proud of our shared past. We can give more than we think, endure more, and fight harder than most peoples on this fair planet.


47 posted on 09/04/2011 8:12:39 AM PDT by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

“then you really might not want to see this, about John Paul Jones:”

I just write about him. I am not emotionally invested in the man. Besides, he looks than I am likely to when my body has been around that long.

You’ve heard the song Naval Academy midshipmen wrote about Jones?

Everybody works but John Paul Jones!
He lies around all day,
Body pickled in alcohol
On a permanent jag, they say


48 posted on 09/04/2011 8:12:59 AM PDT by No Truce With Kings (Ten years on FreeRepublic and counting.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: USNBandit
How does his work compare with CS Forester's work?

I've meant to get around to O’Brian’s stuff, but I have not. Mainly because I have the complete Hornblower saga in audio format and that, so far, has satisfied my desire for romanticism of the era from the comfort of my desk.

49 posted on 09/04/2011 6:20:01 PM PDT by El Sordo (The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: El Sordo

I hate to say it, but it is better than Hornblower. I think O’Brian does a better job with the details and his written dialog is extremely good. I do love both, but I enjoyed O’Brian’s work more.


50 posted on 09/04/2011 7:59:07 PM PDT by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-54 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson