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My employer tells us it's "ok to lie" to get health insurance discount (vanity).

Posted on 09/04/2011 10:30:39 PM PDT by Catmom

During our last contract negotiations at a Seattle area hospital, our employer told union reps (SEIU) that all employees covered by the hospital's health insurance plans would be required to join a "wellness program" or start having a portion of their premiums deducted from their paychecks. They told us they had contracted with an outside vendor to manage this "program".

The program is focused on weight loss and requires all employees who participate to answer quarterly emails where they give their height and weight. Many of my coworkers ARE overweight and took exception to this.

The employer told us this program had become necessary to contain health care costs and enabled them to give us a better deal on health insurance than any other hospital in the area. We were also told that the program requires minimal participation beyond the quarterly email responses. In fact, the director of Human Resources actually told union members it would be okay for employees to provide false responses to the emails just so long as they participated. Employees who choose to opt out will have 20% of their premiums deducted from their paychecks.

Is this where Obamacare has gotten us? Employers who tell their workers to lie to outside vendors so they can "get us a good deal" on a health insurance plan?

Needless to say. I'm going to opt out on this. The "wellness program" is a sham and I refuse to lie to anyone to "get a great deal".

And I'll bet this "wellness program" knows employees do this, too. They're just in it to make bucks off the situation employers find themselves in.


TOPICS: Health/Medicine
KEYWORDS: healthinsurance; obamacare; seiu; vanity
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1 posted on 09/04/2011 10:30:46 PM PDT by Catmom
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To: Catmom

These wellness programs are too narrowly focused. We had “screenings” in late 2007 for heart disease. I had high cholesterol and high triglicerides, and was overweight. But I didn’t smoke and pledged to try to follow the guidelines. In early 2008 I was diagnosed with fatal cancer and kidney failure. The screenings were so narrow that none of this was even hinted at. Maybe it’s just as well... it might have been treated as a pre-existing condition. But the point is there were strong markers something was seriously wrong and these screenings missed all of it.


2 posted on 09/04/2011 10:41:27 PM PDT by TenthAmendmentChampion (Darwinism is to Genesis as Global Warming is to Revelations.)
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To: Catmom
This is only the first step. Pretty soon, the wellness advisor will show up at your house to confiscate your salt shaker and check your refrigerator and pantry for fatty and sugar-laden food.
3 posted on 09/04/2011 10:44:17 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open ( <o> ---)
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To: Catmom
I would also imagine that there is no barrier between the company "managing" the wellness program and the insurance provider. Are they providing information back and forth related to these responses?

I am sure that somewhere in the policy terms and conditions it would preclude coverage for conditions based upon providing false information. Similar to life insurance policies (ie lying about cigarette use to get a non-smoker rate for coverage). Is this a backdoor way for insurers to avoid or deny coverage in select circumstances?

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't blame them for doing so, there should be no benefit to providing false or misleading information. Those with the highest risk based upon personal choices, rightfully, shoulder a higher expense. I don't think I blame you for opting out - in the interest of privacy. It is amazing to me that with HIPPA regulations so many people can "justifiably" gain access to medical information - the more layers involved in care, the less privacy is afforded.

4 posted on 09/04/2011 10:46:21 PM PDT by RobertClark (People sleep peaceably in their beds at night b'cse good men are rdy to do violence on their behalf)
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To: Catmom

SEIU coaching lies? I am shocked!


5 posted on 09/04/2011 10:47:10 PM PDT by jessduntno (Obama shanks. America tanks.)
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To: Catmom
Needless to say. I'm going to opt out on this. The "wellness program" is a sham and I refuse to lie to anyone to "get a great deal".

Well, if you participate, then you do not have to lie.

My company has 2 or 3 wellness programs offered to you They are voluntary to participate. If you choose to participate, they give you a $150 bonus per wellness program you volunteer to take.

I volunteer for 2 of them as I am not qualified for the 3rd one (I am a nonsmoker). It is not so hard to do. In fact, I have actually learned quite a bit from them. I am glad they are offered. I have done this for at least the past 4 or 5 years, since first offered.

If I would be forced to join, or pay 20% of my monthly insurance premium, I would join.

I'm guessing a lot of people are fearful of losing their job or seeing an increase in their insurance premium if they are overweight or have something else that hurts them medically, therefore they do not want to participate.

6 posted on 09/04/2011 11:11:58 PM PDT by rawhide
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To: rawhide

I’m 5’ 4” and weigh 130#. I don’t need this “program”, especially the way it’s being handled.


7 posted on 09/04/2011 11:15:38 PM PDT by Catmom
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To: Catmom

If you are in fairly good health, which sounds like you are, then you have nothing to worry about. And you do not pay any penalty for not joining, and you do not have to lie either.


8 posted on 09/04/2011 11:22:12 PM PDT by rawhide
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To: rawhide

I think you’re missing the point of my whole post.


9 posted on 09/04/2011 11:24:45 PM PDT by Catmom
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To: Catmom

My insurance carrier, BC/BS, sent me a statement with an additional $10 added to the premium to participate in THEIR wellness program...whether I opted out of it or not. That began on January 1 of this year, WHEN they also sent me a notice that since I qualified for Medicare that they could no longer be my primary carrier, and only my supplemental carrier. I had no intention of filing yet for Medicare as I had taken a lost cost hospital care policy that covers 100% with a $5,000 deductible. Since I am very healthy and can afford to pay for my own checkups and visits for prescriptions for the sniffles. Now I have been FORCED into Medicare which covers 80/20 for anything and my supplemental costs more than the well patient/hospital care policy.

You talk about one hacked off individual.


10 posted on 09/04/2011 11:29:04 PM PDT by RowdyFFC
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To: TenthAmendmentChampion
You were diagnosed with cancer in 2008? I am so very sorry. I said a prayer for you after reading your post. You said it was fatal cancer and kidney failure, but you're still posting three years later. There is always hope and faith, FRiend.
11 posted on 09/05/2011 3:30:48 AM PDT by MacMattico
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To: Catmom

They told us they had contracted with an outside vendor to manage this “program”.

This is a large part of the health care “problem” today. Too many entities with their collective fingers in the pie. What percentage is this outside vendor getting per member per month? What are his incentives from the payor source? I know, they’ll provide bogus data, collected from cooked information back to an insurance company who says that they want this data but don’t really cuz they don’t know what to do with it.


12 posted on 09/05/2011 3:35:51 AM PDT by Artie
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To: Artie

They probably collect about $100-300 per employee, from what I have seen about these types of programs from their websites.


13 posted on 09/05/2011 4:07:06 AM PDT by Catmom
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To: Catmom

While in local government, my boss, the H.R. Manager, ORDERED me to lie once. And not just lie, but commit perjury during voir dire for a court case. So when I was asked the question, I told the judge, “My boss told me to tell you (blank), but that’s not true. This is true.” Then I provided a copy of the MOU addressing that issue.


14 posted on 09/05/2011 4:13:31 AM PDT by MayflowerMadam ("I know that God's tomorrow will be better than today!" A. H. Ackley)
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To: Catmom
The "wellness program" is a sham and I refuse to lie to anyone to "get a great deal"

These things are a sham and encourage lying - like education encourages 'grading on the curve' and 'dumbing down' to boost their school ratings.

If everyone gets a 4.0 and everyone becomes "Wellness" - we'll all be wicked smart and live forever....layers and layers of people will be paid in these looped farces. It makes the wheels on the buses go 'round n 'round.

"Eat a Book ~Read your Vegetables ~ Get a Free IPod" :>)

15 posted on 09/05/2011 4:23:10 AM PDT by libertarian27 (Agenda21: Dept. of Life, Dept. of Liberty and the Dept. of Happiness)
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: Catmom
director of Human Resources actually told union members it would be okay for employees to provide false responses

...and give the carrier the legal right to deny payment for any and all medical costs on behalf of an individual found to have provided false information.

17 posted on 09/05/2011 4:31:56 AM PDT by Hot Tabasco (FREE YOUR BREASTS! FREE YOUR MIND!)
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To: rawhide
My company has 2 or 3 wellness programs offered to you They are voluntary to participate. If you choose to participate, they give you a $150 bonus per wellness program you volunteer to take.

You could only take 2 because you're not a smoker so you lost out on a $150 bonus. How is that right or fair?

18 posted on 09/05/2011 4:49:34 AM PDT by newzjunkey (Will racist demagogue Andre Carson be censured by the House?)
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To: Catmom

It’s not about whether you tell the truth or not. It’s not even about Obamacare.

The insurance company has set up the hoops to jump through specifically so they can offer a lower priced product but in fact charge a higher price. They know a significant portion of the insured will either refuse to participate or forget to complete the participation which lets them charge more money. It is no more complicated that that.

Out of curiosity, last year I gained and lost about 1000 pounds and at several points my vital signs were not consistent with human life. I never got a call or email from the insurer concerned about my responses. Nobody was looking at the information other than whether I participated or not.


19 posted on 09/05/2011 5:02:11 AM PDT by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: Catmom

If you lie, then later on when they are obliged to cover and expensive medical charge, they will deny it saying you lied and therefore coverage is forfeited.


20 posted on 09/05/2011 5:04:14 AM PDT by jacknhoo (Luke 12:51. Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
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To: MacMattico; TenthAmendmentChampion

Ditto what MacM said...


21 posted on 09/05/2011 5:04:43 AM PDT by TN4Liberty (My tagline disappeared so this is my new one.)
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To: rawhide

“They are voluntary to participate.”

You know how these things go. Voluntary today, mandatory tomorrow. . . .


22 posted on 09/05/2011 5:16:09 AM PDT by webstersII
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To: Catmom

how Shariah compliant. Unfortunately this corruptive philosophy is one reflected in what I was told decades ago
by an agent of the State-when seeking help at the employment office—and what I was told by agents of the VA on benefits.
Like that golden oldie “Money for nothin—and your checks for free.” (oops in Freudian slip I substituted an e for an i and now hasten to escape the iou.... or ei ei o


23 posted on 09/05/2011 5:39:21 AM PDT by StonyBurk (ring)
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To: Catmom

There is already precedence on this. You lie and you’re benefits can be reduced. Example would be a smoker with life insurance. If you lie and get a premium discount and it is later found out you lied - the payout won’t be null and void, but rather adjusted downwards to what you paid and the actuaries considered with the new found facts.


24 posted on 09/05/2011 6:31:02 AM PDT by Usagi_yo
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To: MayflowerMadam

Whoa! Good for you for being very honest! What happened between your boss and you after your testimony?


25 posted on 09/05/2011 6:35:39 AM PDT by rawhide
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To: newzjunkey

Never felt slighted! Why should I?


26 posted on 09/05/2011 6:37:28 AM PDT by rawhide
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To: Catmom

Why would *all* employees be required to join a wellness program?


27 posted on 09/05/2011 6:37:36 AM PDT by ladyjane
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To: MacMattico; TenthAmendmentChampion

I prayed for you too, TenthAmendmentChampion. Thanks MacMattico for encouraging me to do that, as I should have thought to do that earlier. God bless both of you, in the name of the Lord Jesus.


28 posted on 09/05/2011 6:42:04 AM PDT by rawhide
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To: ladyjane

Because they don’t want those who actually need it to feel singled out.


29 posted on 09/05/2011 9:01:37 AM PDT by Catmom
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To: rawhide

“What happened between your boss and you after your testimony?”

I was selected to be on the jury, much to my boss’ dismay. We had a hectic couple of months ahead of us and she wanted/needed me around.

After that, things were tense ‘cause I no longer trusted her. This was in city government. The City Manager didn’t like my boss much and she was encouraged to look elsewhere, which she did. When she got situated in another city, she called me and asked me to look in an employee’s personnel file and give her information (to use against the City Manager). I responded, “You know I can’t give you confidential personnel information; you taught me well.” She got angry and hung up. I reported the call to the C.M.’s assistant.

I learned there were other issues, as a big investigation began soon after. (What it is about the Catberts of the world? I hate H.R.)


30 posted on 09/06/2011 1:40:40 PM PDT by MayflowerMadam ("I know that God's tomorrow will be better than today!" A. H. Ackley)
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To: MayflowerMadam

You are an honest person. I am glad to know you. Take care and God bless you!


31 posted on 09/06/2011 1:53:13 PM PDT by rawhide
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To: dangerdoc
You gained and lost 1k pounds in one year????????

WOW!!!

32 posted on 09/06/2011 2:40:58 PM PDT by Osage Orange (Marine Sniper - "You can run, but you'll just die tired!")
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To: MayflowerMadam
I think maybe you heard something you didn't.

How do you feel about the incident?

I think your bathroom breaks should count against your vacation.

Workplace wellness is a serious issue. DEAL WITH IT!

33 posted on 09/06/2011 2:48:26 PM PDT by Osage Orange (Marine Sniper - "You can run, but you'll just die tired!")
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To: Osage Orange

I gained and lost a thousand pounds. Unfortunately, I ended up exactly where I started. My biggest victory was losing about 80 pounds over two weeks. Unfortunately I gained a hundred pounds the next week. Before I got bored I logged my calories, I was eating about 22,000 calories a day and losing weight and then cutting back to 500 and gaining weight.

The computer made a fancy graph.


34 posted on 09/06/2011 5:02:00 PM PDT by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: dangerdoc
Holy smokes!!!

Do you have some cardiac or kidney dz?

35 posted on 09/06/2011 5:13:43 PM PDT by Osage Orange (Marine Sniper - "You can run, but you'll just die tired!")
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To: Osage Orange

Nope just frustration over having to fill out stupid forms to get a discount on my health insurance.


36 posted on 09/06/2011 5:32:48 PM PDT by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: Catmom

Well this sure as hell isn’t Overlake Hospital thats for sure........


37 posted on 09/06/2011 5:38:03 PM PDT by cmsgop ( The left always accuses the right for the sins of the left. from FReeper Just Lori, RIP)
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To: dangerdoc
Okay.

But I'd think you have some other problems....

Hope you get them addressed.

38 posted on 09/06/2011 5:38:21 PM PDT by Osage Orange (Marine Sniper - "You can run, but you'll just die tired!")
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To: Catmom
I would notify the Washington State Department of Insurance. This is fraud.

RCW 48.135.010

(1) "Insurance fraud" means an act or omission committed by a person who, knowingly, and with intent to defraud, commits, or conceals any material information concerning, one or more of the following:

(a) Presenting, causing to be presented, or preparing with knowledge or belief that it will be presented to or by an insurer, insurance producer, or surplus line broker, false information as part of, in support of, or concerning a fact material to one or more of the following:

(i) An application for the issuance or renewal of an insurance policy;

(ii) The rating of an insurance policy or contract;

(iii) A claim for payment or benefit pursuant to an insurance policy;

(iv) Premiums paid on an insurance policy;

(v) Payments made in accordance with the terms of an insurance policy; or

(vi) The reinstatement of an insurance policy;

39 posted on 09/06/2011 5:44:47 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Osage Orange

Your missing his point I think. I understood.


40 posted on 09/06/2011 5:52:21 PM PDT by listenhillary (Look your representatives in the eye and ask if they intend to pay off the debt. They will look away)
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To: listenhillary; dangerdoc
Here's dangerdoc's post....

I gained and lost a thousand pounds. Unfortunately, I ended up exactly where I started. My biggest victory was losing about 80 pounds over two weeks

I said he / she has other issues.....

I think my point is sound.

If I missed some obvious or obscure point up thread...I'm sorry.

Losing 80 pounds in two weeks...isn't healthy or normal. Something is out of whack there.

Enough said........

41 posted on 09/06/2011 6:01:53 PM PDT by Osage Orange (Marine Sniper - "You can run, but you'll just die tired!")
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To: Osage Orange

See post 6 and 36. I think there us a relationship between the two posts.


42 posted on 09/06/2011 6:08:55 PM PDT by listenhillary (Look your representatives in the eye and ask if they intend to pay off the debt. They will look away)
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To: listenhillary
I read both posts in context.........

I've not changed my mind.

43 posted on 09/06/2011 6:23:33 PM PDT by Osage Orange (Marine Sniper - "You can run, but you'll just die tired!")
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To: Osage Orange

Do you think it is possible to lose a thousand pounds?


44 posted on 09/06/2011 6:26:00 PM PDT by listenhillary (Look your representatives in the eye and ask if they intend to pay off the debt. They will look away)
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To: Osage Orange; dangerdoc

Hello? The good doctor was saying he/she was filling the required forms out with BS data, and that no one was concerned about the health of the patient.

Sarcasm and BS don’t always translate well in print.


45 posted on 09/06/2011 6:27:04 PM PDT by Semper911 (When you want to rob Peter to pay Paul, you'll always have the support of Paul.)
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To: Osage Orange

We were required to keep the computer log to get a discount on our health insurance. I was frustrated by the requirement and also curious to see if anybody actually paid attention. I entered more impossible numbers every week to see if it would trip an alarm to notify me that I had a problem.

Nope, it happily logged all my gains and losses and gave me a yearly summary showing me that for the year I had no change in weight.

The whole program was as useless as I assumed it was and the whole point was to create a program so tedious that an average person would get bored and quit, losing their discount on the premiums. If it weren’t for the experiment, the fun of watching the graph swing wildly and the hilarious computer generated encouragement I would get to keep working when I gained 40 pounds or congratulations when I lost a hundred pounds, I would have never made it through the year.

This year, I have to download a motivational .pdf every week to get my discount.

I’m sorry my post confused you, I was responding to the title, “ok to lie” to get health insurance discount. By the time you got my post, the thread had veered away from the title a bit.

In case you were actually worried, my weight never varied more than a few pounds over the entire year.


46 posted on 09/06/2011 6:29:58 PM PDT by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: Semper911

I definitely need to work on my delivery.

I thought the entire thing was hilarious, I think my wife may have actually used the word juvenile.


47 posted on 09/06/2011 6:32:12 PM PDT by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: dangerdoc
I definitely need to work on my delivery.

Your delivery is great -- no need to change a thing,

It came through loud and clear on this end, and yes, hilarious.

48 posted on 09/06/2011 6:34:33 PM PDT by Semper911 (When you want to rob Peter to pay Paul, you'll always have the support of Paul.)
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To: MayflowerMadam

“I learned there were other issues, as a big investigation began soon after.”

Years ago I was told by my manager to lie on my timesheet that I had worked on some government contract they had. He tried to give some excuse of “It’s a lump sum contract so it’s not like stealing, but we need to show some more hours spent. And you haven’t been billable, so that will help you keep your job.”

I didn’t do it. A few years later (I had left them) and they were in the news for fraud and stuff on the their government contracts. Yep - this kind of stuff is often just the tip of the iceberg.


49 posted on 09/06/2011 6:36:25 PM PDT by 21twelve (Obama Recreating the New Deal: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2185147/posts)
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To: Osage Orange

Was your post correctly directed to me? Not pertinent to anything I’ve posted that I can tell.


50 posted on 09/07/2011 4:34:59 AM PDT by MayflowerMadam ("I know that God's tomorrow will be better than today!" A. H. Ackley)
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