Posted on 09/10/2011 8:10:42 PM PDT by LouAvul
...... reconcile themselves to Romans 1?
Rom 1:18-32 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness....24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature......27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet..... 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Granted, verse 32 is referring to the second death, viz. Judgment, but it's so obviously a condemnation of homosexuality it's hard to imagine how they ignore it.
They dismiss it as “cultural.”
Or as Paul’s problem.
Or they just more honestly deny that the Bible is the word of God.
Homosexual behavior, or sexual sin of any kind, can’t be reconciled with biblical Christianity.
Sin has a strong power to blind people.
Yep.
Or they listen to the lies of Satan. If it feels good... do it.
The same way a married person justifies an affair, or a thief justifies embezzling or anything anyone does wrong and they know in their heart it’s wrong.
I dunno, how do Roman Catholics justify being democRats? It’s a mystery!
They’re unitarians. Fake Christians.
How do parents deal with grown children who are gay? They still love their children but how do they cope with their lifestyle?
Liberal Jewish synagogues have a similar problem with the “Heblew” members.
At the risk of a pun most vile, being a Heblew must suck.
Not to forget the problem with justifying one’s behavior later on.
Amen!
They tell themselves that what Paul is writing about here is the homosexual lifestyle, not homosexuality itself. In other words they believe that it’s only promiscuity and unkindness or sexual violence that’s wrong, and homosexuality is okay in God’s eyes if they’re doing it in a committed relationship or marriage.
Usually I just use Leviticus 20:13 but nowadays, the sick libtards try to twist their own interpretation of it...the same insulting way libs claim the 2nd Amendment is ONLY for the militia, which is now any law enforcement agency.
Not only do they dismiss this clear admonishment as cultural, they totally disregard the teaching of the church when it comes to sexual purity and the theological significance of marriage and the symbolism of the union of man and woman in marriage.
The theology of those who accept homosexuality is faulty, but their sin does not allow them to see it or to acknowledge that. They prefer the softer, PC Christ to the true One.
because it’s mean to tell them “no”
CINOs
Is there any shortage in history of those who did many wrong things yet claimed to speak for Christianity?
Luke 18:11 perhaps?
I don’t know. We have three gay young men in our family. Two of them go to our church, they support it, they participate in all church activities, yet they and one cousin’s partner are very active.
They do not talk about being gay, even to us cousins whom they were raised close to, they have never acknowledged it. They do not get in your face with it. They just go about their jobs, living their happy lives like anybody else, minding their own business. It doesn’t seem that they need or want somebody’s permission to attend church as they’ve been attending there all their lives. And most of us have respected that.
The third one is an ordained Church of Christ minister who is a missionary and lives in Old Jerusalem in Israel close to the Wailing Wall. I’m not even sure he’s ever acknowledged it to himself...he lives like a monk, at least as far as I know. He works with an inter-faith mission that smuggles basically starving Jewish children out of Russia and places them in orphanages in Poland until they can be adopted into Jewish homes in Israel, as well as smuggles food and goods into Russia for elderly Jews. I say smuggles...I know they have to smuggle the kids out, but they may have an agreement with the government to bring in humanitarian aid for the elderly.
It’s always been a puzzle to me, but then their dispensation is not up to me.
What does a a collector of taxes have to do with it?
they reconcile their christianity the same way that liars, the greedy, the heterosexual who are promiscuous, those who abort their kids, and those of us who are proud not to belong to this list of sinners do:
they either try to remain faithful to God’s will one day at at a time and beg his mercy when they lapse.
Or they become ordinary hypocrites.
Explain, please?
Now that they can marry, they’re legit. No more living in sin, Right....right?
There are the dishonest ways that Persevero suggested (and variations thereon),
and the honest way:
Accepting St. Paul’s teaching (echoing the Old Covenant Law) and struggling to live a celibate life, and either succeeding by God’s grace, or failing, repenting and confessing their sins when they fail and struggling on, praying for God’s grace.
Scissors.
I don’t think our Lord said “Go and sin some more”.
Very true. Paul is frequently disregarded, and I’ve heard the argument that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality, so it really isn’t a sin. I’ve also heard the argument that the Greek’s definition of homosexuality is different from what is practiced now, and that what Paul is really denouncing in that passage is the pagan practice of using young boys as temple prostitutes or something similar.
Anybody deep in the grips of sin will find a way to justify their actions.
>> At the risk of a pun most vile, being a Heblew must suck.
I had to laugh. But then I had to pinch my voicebox off with a pair of Channelock pliers.
The same way some people who profess Christianity get divorced, commit adultery, lie, steal, and cheat.
“he honest way:
Accepting St. Paul’s teaching (echoing the Old Covenant Law) and struggling to live a celibate life, and either succeeding by God’s grace, or failing, repenting and confessing their sins when they fail and struggling on, praying for God’s grace.”
True, but someone accepting the honest way would not be about the business of reconciling homosexual behavior with Christianity.
They would rather be acknowledging that they have a temptation in that area or even a besetting sin, which they must battle and resist.
Just as the “straight” must often battle fornication/adultery.
>> Now that they can marry, they’re legit. No more living in sin, Right....right?
Naybe while you’re still alive... in Massachusets.
After that? Well, I don’t think I’d want to count on living forever, if I were them.
“they reconcile their christianity the same way that liars, the greedy, the heterosexual who are promiscuous, those who abort their kids, and those of us who are proud not to belong to this list of sinners do:”
LadyDoc, you are missing the critical issue of repentance.
Those of us who are liars, greedy, etc., can’t go around saying it’s ok with God for us to do that. We must acknowledge it as sin, and resist it. We must repent - repentance is non-negotiable in the Christian life.
To insist that your homosexual behavior is ok is not repentance.
These people argue God made them that way, so it must be ok.
Mass delusion...no different than any other similar behavior.
But the thread began with the question of how such people “reconcile themselves” to the passage from Romans, and we should pray they do so in the honest way I proposed.
“Reconciling homosexual behavior with Christianity” is different from reconciling themselves to St. Paul’s teaching, and necessarily involves dishonesty.
Nice try!
Nice try!
Nice try? Did I ask something of YOU?
Yeah, I’m pretty sure you’re right on that one.
Not all sins are forgiven. Perhaps homosexual sodomy is of that type.
The Church of Christ doesn't "ordain" its ministers. Unless you mean the "United Church of Christ."
Bingo
Every Christian, just as every other human being, is a sinner, but the Christian is a forgiven sinner. The sin is in what we do.
The future generation has had 24/7 agitprop—so they will believe up is down.
This was started by the Communist Hays but evolved into a slick marketing plan aimed at our children and grandchildren. They know it is too late to affect people who are not brainwashed in early childhood. That is why zero wants Kindergarteners now to have Sex Ed. Not enough have fallen for the big lie...but Glee sees to it that they pick up the loose ends.
http://www.newswithviews.com/Jackson/nicholas17.htm
Well, I guess you’re the expert, but then he went to TCU, completed his theological studies became an ordained minister, and has been a member of the Church of Christ in my community all his life, which has never been called the United Church of Christ. And he works for an inter-faith mission in Israel through his church who sponsors him.
Now whatever that means to you is fine with me. Call it whatever you like.
Here we see a subtle argument for the acceptance of homosexuality that is unceasingly drilled into our heads: gays are just like the rest of us, they live happy, contented, FABULOUS lives. If only the rest of us could "get over" our irrational homophobia...
Sometimes the truth is acknowledged, that homosexuals are far more likely to lead sad, lonely lives driven by an unending series of transient sexual relationships. But once again, blame is laid at the feet of those who would oppose their lifestyle, who are guilty of making them miserable.
As our Lord alluded, outward appearances are deceiving. I suspect you do not know the real sordid story of what goes on behind closed doors. To blithely characterize the lives of your homosexual relatives as "happy" is presumptuous and belies the wishful thinking by someone who desire to justify their lifestyle.
“How do homosexuals who profess Christianity .........”
Of course, you might just as well substitute the word ‘sinner’ for ‘homosexuals’ and ask the same question.
People are born with tendencies and weaknesses of widely varying type and magnitude. We ALL have temptations to overcome. We do not all have the same ones.
Whether it’s treating one’s body more as an all-night saloon and whore house rather than as a temple. Or a quickness to confrontation. Or a compulsion to truth-stretching. Or a reflexive covetousness for your neighbor’s spouse or earnings. Or a habit of ignoring one’s beam to focus on another’s mote.... when you find that you have NOT the same temptation as do some others, then a whisper of gratitude will find His ear clearer than a ballyhoo of attitude.
Many (not accusing you) seem to think that pointing out one’s own natural aversion to something which would be sin somehow tips their scale toward a more moral balance. Not possibly aware of whether their lack of that particular temptation is simply the result of His knowledge of their weakness.
No doubt it is not all who are tempted which end up participating in dirty homo sex - which clearly is sin. An abomination. But even those who fall to it are NOT guilty of the unforgivable sin.
Nobody who has ever been born of woman is condemned as yet. There is still hope for them. Remember your quote from Paul - that they are ‘worthy’ of death (condemnation). It is not possible that they are actually assigned to spiritual death at this point. And NOT Paul’s call to make, as he would confirm.
ALL who eventually come to Christ have debts only He can pay.
That being said, gays or anyone else who knowingly spreads false doctrine regarding God’s word and Christ’s role are accumulating debts MUCH deeper than those brought on by any personal lack of self control.
Such deception is Satan’s first documented tool. We sometimes forget that it is not always his most productive strategy to encourage individual believers to willing break God’s law. But rather to convince them that, collectively, they have democratically legitimate veto power over it.
It might take that old Devil years to scout and recruit the oversized team he can field quickly by stirring a crowd to vote for the golden calf and a return to heathen subservience. Ask Aaron. Or Hoffa.
To deceive the world requires a plan and a system, not merely an increase in his normal door to door heart knocking route.
Also worth noting is the rosy description of your gay relative living in Jerusalem, which portrays someone living a selfless life of service to Christ. How dare we judge him!
While judgment belongs to God, to praise someone when you do not know the whole story is an uninformed "judgment" at best, and, at worst, a clever attempt to manipulate the discussion by asserting that the person is admirable and "good" - and thus we must not question the morality of his behavior.
I have also lived and ministered in Jerusalem, very imperfectly I must add. The leader of one ministry I worked with eventually destroyed his family as he finally "came out" and acknowledged his homosexuality.
For years this man's ministry and family were portrayed in laudatory terms; few suspected the real truth.
"Man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart."
Try as they might — and with the aid of many a Liberal Theologian — they CANNOT.
Agreed. Not just affair, IMO. Take sex outside marriage, for instance, which seems to be an increasingly accepted behavior nowadays. Even if we don't do it, I wonder how many of us can easily accept our brothers/sisters/neighbors who date and without doubt are having sex with their girlfriend/boyfriend outside marriage. Or to covet our neighbor's wife (modern version of it: drool over Cathrine Zeta-Jones whenever Maureen Dowd's article is posted), something that is mentioned in the Ten Commandment. Isn't such action also condemned by the Bible? Yet, we make light of it, and consider it normal. But any mention of homosexuality, even when the person who confesses his/her struggle as a gay Christian, we tend to condemn them as unforgiven sinner.
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