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Windows 8 secure boot would 'exclude' Linux - Microsoft wants firmware to only start authorised OSes
The Register ^ | 9/21/11 | John Leyden

Posted on 09/21/2011 5:57:26 PM PDT by LibWhacker

Computer scientists warn that proposed changes in firmware specifications may make it impossible to run “unauthorised” operating systems such as Linux and FreeBSD on PCs.

Proposed changes to the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware specifications would mean PCs would only boot from a digitally signed image derived from a keychain rooted in keys built into the PC. Microsoft is pushing to make this mandatory in a move that could not be overridden by users and would effectively exclude alternative operating systems, according to Professor Ross Anderson of Cambridge University and other observers.

UEFI is a successor to the BIOS ROM firmware designed to shorten boot times and improve security. The framework, a key part of Windows 8, is designed to work on a variety of CPU architectures.

If the draft for UEFI is adopted without modification, then any system that ships with only OEM and Microsoft keys will not boot a generic copy of Linux. A signed version of Linux would work, but this poses problems, as tech blogger Matthew Garrett explains.

Garrett writes:

Firstly, we'd need a non-GPL bootloader. Grub 2 is released under the GPLv3, which explicitly requires that we provide the signing keys. Grub is under GPLv2 which lacks the explicit requirement for keys, but it could be argued that the requirement for the scripts used to control compilation includes that. It's a grey area, and exploiting it would be a pretty good show of bad faith.

Secondly, in the near future the design of the kernel will mean that the kernel itself is part of the bootloader. This means that kernels will also have to be signed. Making it impossible for users or developers to build their own kernels is not practical. Finally, if we self-sign, it's still necessary to get our keys included by ever OEM.

There's no indication that Microsoft will prevent vendors from providing firmware support for disabling this feature and running unsigned code. However, experience indicates that many firmware vendors and OEMs are interested in providing only the minimum of firmware functionality required for their market.

Garrett concluded that there is no need to panic just yet.

The upshot of the changes is that considerable roadblocks might be placed in the way of running alternative operating systems on PCs. Anderson describes this as a return to the rejected Trusted Computing architecture – which at that point involved force-feeding DRM copy-protection restrictions – which may be far worse than its predecessor.

The professor said:

These issues last arose in 2003, when we fought back with the Trusted Computing FAQ and economic analysis. That initiative petered out after widespread opposition. This time round the effects could be even worse, as 'unauthorised' operating systems like Linux and FreeBSD just won’t run at all. On an old-fashioned Trusted Computing platform you could at least run Linux – it just couldn’t get at the keys for Windows Media Player.

The extension of Microsoft’s OS monopoly to hardware would be a disaster, with increased lock-in, decreased consumer choice and lack of space to innovate.

Anderson concludes that the technology might violate EU competition law in a rallying call on Cambridge University's Light Blue Touchpaper blog here.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Computers/Internet
KEYWORDS: firmware; linux; microsoft; os

1 posted on 09/21/2011 5:57:35 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: LibWhacker

Does anyone really dual boot OSs anymore? Most folks just run virtual machines, rather than have a 2nd OS installed on the hard disk. Better that way, given that you can run your 2nd OS at the same time as the ‘primary’.

This does stink though. For whatever reason, certain users may NEED to dual boot, and the option should be there.


2 posted on 09/21/2011 6:01:25 PM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: LibWhacker

And that is how the government could shut down the internet...just make everyone buy new “approved” PC’s...(cash for computer)


3 posted on 09/21/2011 6:02:10 PM PDT by Nat Turner (I can see NOVEMBER 2012 from my house....)
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To: KoRn

This isn’t just for dual boots. It’s wired into the firmware, so the system wouldn’t be able to boot Linux *at all*.


4 posted on 09/21/2011 6:03:59 PM PDT by Campion ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies when they become fashions." -- GKC)
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To: LibWhacker
Fine, Microsoft. I've been running a Linux/XP box for several years. Let's see, which one am I gonna live without?

See ya Mr. Gates.

5 posted on 09/21/2011 6:04:19 PM PDT by LaybackLenny (All hail Her Royal Highness Sarah, Queen of The Hobbits)
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To: KoRn

Dual booting isn’t the main issue, it is that you wouldn’t be able to install a different OS on a “windows” box. You possibly wouldn’t be able to take your old Dell, and install linux to turn it into a media server, for example.


6 posted on 09/21/2011 6:05:02 PM PDT by MrShoop
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To: LibWhacker

The whole world’s going to crap. Who knew the system designers were part of Agenda 21?


7 posted on 09/21/2011 6:06:16 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture (Could be worst in 40 years))
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To: LibWhacker

So very Microsoft.

They really do not have any talent...never have.

Gate’s legacy of sleazy business practices has long been successful in giving us junk.

May he rest with dead Ted.


8 posted on 09/21/2011 6:07:12 PM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: MrShoop; Campion

Wow! That’s worse than I thought! (I just skimmed the article)

The PC makers should tell MS to piss up a rope!


9 posted on 09/21/2011 6:11:29 PM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: LibWhacker

Hey Microsoft, take your pick:

Abort

Retry

or

FAIL!


10 posted on 09/21/2011 6:12:28 PM PDT by bigbob
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To: KoRn

I dual boot AND run several virtual machines. I prefer running some things natively for the comparative performance advantages you get.

I don’t see this new boot loader getting much traction. Even if it does, it will be reverse engineered just like other closed Microsoft specifications (ntfs read/write modules as an example come to mind). This is what the open source community does very well — frustrate the makers of closed specifications. There is, however, some lag time in development.


11 posted on 09/21/2011 6:14:28 PM PDT by 3Fingas ( Sons and Daughters of Freedom, Committee of Correspondence)
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To: LibWhacker
There is a small silver lining in this:

Any machine that WILL boot Linux WON'T boot Windows at all.

Good riddance.

12 posted on 09/21/2011 6:16:15 PM PDT by I cannot think of a name
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To: LibWhacker

As long as there continues to be a market for LINUX, I would imagine that the hardward makers would continue to support it, as well as MS.

Possibly some companies—Dell has been mentioned—might not do both. But I would imagine that someone would step in to fill the gap,as long as there was a profit in it.


13 posted on 09/21/2011 6:20:25 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius.)
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To: LibWhacker

Clearly Microsoft needs to be broken up like Ma Bell, when it practices as a monopoly. It is illegal. But then Obama’s Administration never sees corporate greed as a problem, just a doner.


14 posted on 09/21/2011 6:20:25 PM PDT by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: KoRn

To be clear this would be horrible. That said I bet the LINUX crowd finds a hack, fix, workaround, whatever I bet they break it. And yes I run a dual boot on separate drives.


15 posted on 09/21/2011 6:27:24 PM PDT by enduserindy (Conservative Dead Head)
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To: KoRn
This does stink though. For whatever reason, certain users may NEED to dual boot, and the option should be there.”

The option IS there.
Watch this video on Windows 8 boot process from Microsoft themselves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anxyxlMWCXM

You should know better than trust the tabloid, gutter journalism from the notorious British site “The Register”.

16 posted on 09/21/2011 6:40:49 PM PDT by SmokingJoe
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To: 3Fingas

I run boot camp and Windows XP on my mac so I can access my work computer with a usb device. I eventually will end up switching to another version of windows for that capability, but it looks like that will stop with Win8.


17 posted on 09/21/2011 6:50:12 PM PDT by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: American in Israel
Clearly Microsoft needs to be broken up like Ma Bell, when it practices as a monopoly. It is illegal”

Guess who is using their monopoly to crush rivals right now.
Hint: Its sure is not Microsoft.:
Google ‘rigs’ search results, rivals tell senators

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-20109708-93/google-rigs-search-results-rivals-tell-senators/?tag=mncol;1n

But then Obama’s Administration never sees corporate greed as a problem, just a doner

Yeah..that s why Google CEO Eric Schmidt, came out and openly campaigned for the Kenyan communist in 2008, and over 95% of the political contributions of the Google employees went to 0bama and the Democrats.

18 posted on 09/21/2011 6:50:12 PM PDT by SmokingJoe
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To: USNBandit

Go with windows 7 for the other OS. It’s a very good OS. I also have a mac that I sometimes boot to windows. I have second pc, which boots both linux and windows. It’s always good to have options.


19 posted on 09/21/2011 6:59:38 PM PDT by 3Fingas ( Sons and Daughters of Freedom, Committee of Correspondence)
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To: steve86
System designers?

The problem is the lawyers and the licenses.

I hate the unnecessary complexity of software that this dictates.

I have used some flavor of linux since about 1996. I still like it, even prefer it to Windows of any flavor.

If this is what it takes to keep Microsoft in business, I can do without it.

20 posted on 09/21/2011 7:11:53 PM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: Cicero

Dell?

Where did that come from? I personally doubt they have signed on. They sell a lot of Linux servers and just went through a dispute with Microsoft over some overseas supplier enforcement nonsense.

If it is important, I can find out. Have a connection.

I have bought very few packaged machines in my life. Have used lots of company machines, but generally always built my personal ones. From components or from older machines.

Built my first PC in 1982. That has been a while.


21 posted on 09/21/2011 7:18:31 PM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: SmokingJoe

The article is talking about booting to a non-Microsoft, non-signed OS. Of course you can dual boot into other installs of Windows. I do think the article is probably a little hyperbolic - you’d probably be able to disable the functionality.


22 posted on 09/21/2011 7:30:04 PM PDT by MrShoop
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To: LibWhacker
My advice, save yourself the trouble and wait 3 years for Microsoft to release Windows 9 with their usual apologies for Windows 8. Why is it that every time they come up with something that basically works they have to rush out and force some piece of crap on us that is suppose to make 'Apple obsolete".

Someone needs to explain to me why Bill Gates puts out Vista (Windows ME, etc, etc, etc) and Steve Jobs gets cancer??? Where is the justice in that????

23 posted on 09/21/2011 7:33:23 PM PDT by txroadkill (Ghandi would have smacked 0bama in the head)
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To: SmokingJoe

I was on the inside of Google briefly. Evil.


24 posted on 09/21/2011 7:59:38 PM PDT by Born to Conserve
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To: Born to Conserve

Gee you mean pc’s will be just like Mac’s were for most of their existence.. how.. dumb.


25 posted on 09/21/2011 8:21:45 PM PDT by Bidimus1
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To: LibWhacker
Here's the thing though: I don't find Linux to be a really viable alternative to Windows on desktop/laptop machines, mostly because the Windows ecosystem is so much bigger, especially with software selection.

Linux as a server operating system is a great idea, but Linux as a desktop operating system, I have my doubts.

26 posted on 09/21/2011 8:29:23 PM PDT by RayChuang88 (FairTax: America's economic cure)
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To: Texas Fossil

My comment was tongue-in-cheek, except for the part about the whole world in the crapper, which was entirely sincere.

I run SUSE and a Debian-derivative called Anti-X on various machines.


27 posted on 09/21/2011 8:42:36 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture (Could be worst in 40 years))
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To: txroadkill

Yep, it’s a rule that every other MS OS is gonna suck bigtime, so I won’t bother with Windows 8 at all.


28 posted on 09/21/2011 8:51:56 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: KoRn
The PC makers should tell MS to piss up a rope!

Yeah, right. Microsoft's likely response: "Right back at ya."

After all...they're Microsoft, doncha know.

29 posted on 09/21/2011 9:23:18 PM PDT by LaybackLenny (All hail Her Royal Highness Sarah, Queen of The Hobbits)
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To: steve86

I have run several flavors of Linux. Started with a UMSDOS version of slackware then Mandrake, Redhat and recently Xubuntu. I really like XFCE window manager, used it on Redhat for years before making the switch to Xubuntu.

I am more a command line guy, but Xubuntu 11.04 is pretty nice. I had to add a number of apps, but I am very happy with this machine.

I would have installed Debian but found that downloading the install disc was a pain so I opted for Xubuntu.


30 posted on 09/21/2011 10:19:03 PM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: rdb3; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; GodGunsandGuts; CyberCowboy777; Salo; Bobsat; JosephW; ...

31 posted on 09/22/2011 6:01:33 AM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: rdb3; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; GodGunsandGuts; CyberCowboy777; Salo; Bobsat; JosephW; ...

32 posted on 09/22/2011 6:02:13 AM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: LibWhacker

I’m sure the linux crowd will be able to figure it out.


33 posted on 09/22/2011 6:26:20 AM PDT by for-q-clinton (If at first you don't succeed keep on sucking until you do succeed)
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To: KoRn

MS will make it a precondition to preload WIndows 8. Just like the early days when every computer included a Windows license even if it was shipped bare with no operating system. If anyone else did that it would be restraint of trade but MS has the DOJ in their pocket and gets away with predatory acts such as this.


34 posted on 09/22/2011 6:49:24 AM PDT by NCjim (Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.)
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To: LibWhacker
As always, microsoft is attempting to raise barriers to entry for any competitors.

How about, instead of worrying about boot times, you design the computer so it doesn't have to boot constantly? I rarely reboot a box, and often go months without having to. Who would really care if a boot process took 10 minutes if it only happened once or twice a year?

I'll never buy a computer that has this kind of vendor lock-in. It all boils down to the question of, "who's computer is it?" Microsoft would love to be able to exert as much control over your property as you're willing to let them get away with. It gives them power over your choices that they wouldn't otherwise have. yeah, that's what I want, to give microsoft more power.

35 posted on 09/22/2011 7:26:07 AM PDT by zeugma (Those of us who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.)
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To: LibWhacker

Some way will be found around this. Either hacking the lockout mechanism or rejection of it by the hardware makers. And yes, I built a dual boot system this year (not that that matters).


36 posted on 09/22/2011 7:26:11 AM PDT by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: Texas Fossil

I started with Mandrake in about 1999 and stayed with it through Mandriva’s end. Switched to SUSE on the main machines then. Demo-ed many other distros for a day or two along the way. Interesting you mention XFCE as I just switched to it on an older Pentium 4M laptop when KDE 4.7 proved a little too bloated, although 4.7 is very satisfactory on the newer desktops.


37 posted on 09/22/2011 9:32:15 AM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture (Could be worst in 40 years))
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To: 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
You can flash the BIOS now for firmware updates, why could you not do that later. Dell also sells machines without any OS now ready for Linux, and they sell machines with Linux. They are not going to give up that business sector.

I use dual boot machines now, because some piece of trash Windows apps don't like anything but a real booted copy of Windows.
38 posted on 09/22/2011 9:40:01 AM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: Da Coyote
So very Microsoft. They really do not have any talent...never have. Gate’s legacy of sleazy business practices has long been successful in giving us junk. May he rest with dead Ted.

It's like dealing with Democrats. When they can't get people to like their ideas (always), they resort to trying to take away their alternatives.

39 posted on 09/22/2011 5:59:55 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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