Posted on 09/26/2011 2:15:27 PM PDT by Morgana
A high school student from Eastern Washington got a restraining order against his principal, after claiming the school leader threatened to use a pocketknife and to cut off a rosary the teen wears around his neck.
18-year-old Roel Corral, a student at Kiona-Benton City High School, is Catholic and wears a rosary to school. He says principal Wayne Barrett told him to remove it and threatened him, according to the Tri-City Herald newspaper which has been following this story.
Corral won a court hearing that ordered Barrett to stay at least 100 feet away from Corral, but earlier this week the judge's decision was modified to 25 feet on school property or at school events. The principal said the original order would have made it impossible for him to do his job.
If the principal threatened the student, which he denies, that's one issue. The question I have for you - is the principal right or wrong to ask Corral to remove a rosary from his neck? Here's the school's dress code:
(Excerpt) Read more at mynorthwest.com ...
I agree. Yutes these days are more likely to think they are. They should be carried in a pocket and used in prayer.
It does seem to fit the “Dangling chains of any kind” category.
This is ten miles from me; I have concluded that at some level the Rosary-necklace was intended as a gang symbol. However, the principal’s alleged threatening of actual physical violence (with the knife), if it occurred, seems to surpass the boy’s act in notoriety. I am a Catholic and pray the Rosary daily but would never think to hang it as a necklace.
A Rosary is not jewelry and should not be worn about the neck as a necklace. It should be carried in the pocket and be brought out for prayers and then returned to the pocket.
Beam me up, Scottie.
When was atheism declared the Official State Non-religion in the politburo or the supreme soviet?
I mean, if we are now the USSA, let’s at least cross the t’s and dot the i’s, and do it by the book.
Correct, this is not Catholic practice to wear the rosary outside, as jewelry.
But in a more general 1st Amd, sense, it is protected religious “speech.” Criminy, we now have Sikhs in the Army wearing bloody turbans.
So no way can the Official State Atheism Board rule out wearing a rosary. Unless the hijabs and turbans etc go as well.
>>>The principal said the original order would have made it impossible for him to do his job. <<<
I would think the fact that he is a moronic bully already makes it impossible for him to do his job.
I wonder what would happen if he threatened to cut off a muslim student’s head scarf?
Establishment of a religion--I don't think so.
Now for those spacey systems that make the students dress the part and become, say, Muslims for a day to "understand" that religion, yeah!--that is Waaaaay beyond the pale.
vaudine
According to whom?
Maybe not by English Catholics, yes, but different cultures have different norms wrt rosary.
There is NO religiously, politically, culturally, or First Amendment neutral solution!
1) Removing the rosary has NON-neutral political, cultural, religious, and First Amendment and freedom of conscience consequences!
2) Allowing the rosary has non-neutral political, cultural, religious, and First Amendment and freedom of conscience consequences.
3) Both wearing and not wearing is not an option! Either choice #1 or #2 must be made.
So?....When will conservatives “get it”? A RELIGIOUSLY, POLITICALLY, and CULTURALLY NEUTRAL EDUCATION IS IMPOSSIBLE!!!
ALL GOVERNMENT SCHOOLS ARE FIRST AMENDMENT AND FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE ABOMINATION!
Solution: Begin the process of privatizing all education. Move toward complete separation of school and state.
( And Yeah! I am shouting. I am exasperated that so few conservatives “get it” or see the threat that government K-12 schooling is to our very existence as a free nation.)
If the kid were a practicing Catholic, he would have said “Yes, sir” and put the rosary inconspicuously in his pants pocket or backpack. It is to be prayed, not warn as a personal fashion statement.
“Criminy, we now have Sikhs in the Army wearing bloody turbans”
So. I wore a kippah if I was not otherwise covered.
Ki-Be is near Tri-Cities, not Spokane.
Plenty of gangs though.
This seems more an anti-religious beef than anti-gang.
Wrong crowds complaining.
(or usual suspects not)
As a Catholic, I find it insulting to wear a rosary around the neck. I am on the Principal’s side. I hope the kid gets zero out of this.
Could be a crucifix, not a rosary.
Reporters can’t get a single gun detail correct, it’s possible they don’t know how to to handle articles of Christianity either.
It is impossible to know from the article the religious beliefs of this youth. His religion may be very syncretic ( a combination of pagan Mexican, South or Central American Indian beliefs and Catholicism.)
My husband and I speak Spanish and were asked by our church leaders to join the Spanish speaking congregation in our county. You would be **amazed** at what people believe.
i have three sets but my favorite was my Grandmothers green jade set
Maybe not by English Catholics, yes, but different cultures have different norms....
***
Well, it is not the norm in America to wear a rosary either. It is disrespectful to do so.
Maybe not by English Catholics, yes, but different cultures have different norms....
***
Well, it is not the norm in America to wear a rosary either. It is disrespectful to do so.
“A rosary is not jewelry.”
No it is not. However I have noticed that a lot of people from Latin America wear their rosaries around their neck. I really don’t think they mean disrespect they just want it close to their persons.
No doubt. I have some problems with “that” virgin on the center bit. Kind of a pagan/magical holdover, that now some of the worst criminals call their own.
There is **no** neutral solution. None.
The only solution is to begin the process of privatizing all education. What's need here is complete separation of school and state instead of judges playing Solomon trying to cut the baby of freedom of conscience in half.
Yes, those are gang members/sympathizers.
The telling thing is that you NEVER EVER see one in Mass wearing the Rosary like that. If you have it is a new one on me.
Well from the article I do not see that this youth was being talked to about a religious display but rather he was approached about a violation of the dress code namely daggling necklaces.
So unless the youth can show that the Rosary in question was more than a necklace to him I believe that the school would be within its rights to prohibit the wearing of the Rosary.
I am a Catholic and would never countenance the wearing of the Rosary as a necklace in our local Catholic school.
That being said wintertime in post 20 mentions that some off shoots of Catholicism may wear the Rosary about the neck. So if the youth can claim membership in such a faith perhaps he could claim 1st amendment protection. But I think the youth would need to provide some proof of his claim. Perhaps a baptismal certificate.
When you do, get back to me.
Many of the members of our congregation from Mexico, and Central and South America come to the church with very syncretic beliefs. The more rural their background the more likely this is to be the case.
Also...From the article is it **impossible** know what the beliefs of this child family are. Catholic? Yeah! Sort of!
The point is that is IMPOSSIBLE to have religiously neutral education .. Government schools are NOT religiously neutral and never have been.
Solution: Work toward closing down all government K-12 schooling. What is needed is complete separation of school and state.
You think it is OK to have to **PROVE** to the government your religion? Huh?
Where is that in the First Amendment?
Fundamentally, a religiously neutral education is impossible. There is no such thing a s religiously neutral government education! For this reason we must move toward privatizing all education in the nation. Let these matter be resolved privately between the parents and the principal of a private school.
You’re in Maryland?
Maryland!= Texas.
And I’d argue that while Baltimore is important the Church here is older than Baltimore.
For me its the threat of the principal to cut it off him that makes it a threat to the individual...not weather or not he is wearing a rosary...many people have them hanging from the mirror in their cars. It could be a reminder to some to say the prayers...
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Agreed.
“So unless the youth can show that the Rosary in question was more than a necklace to him I believe that the school would be within its rights to prohibit the wearing of the Rosary.”
That’s not how the first amendment works.
The spirit of your post I do understand. Just to be a Catholic nerd, talisman refers to an object imbued with magical powers. The rosary is not magical—it is a prayer guide. And as others have said, the rosary should NEVER be worn as jewelry—it cheapens the sacred tradition. So I guess I would side with the principal maybe for a different reason. If the offender is Catholic, a talk with clergy would be a good thing.
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It isn't, but is that why the principal acted as he did?
I don't think so.
There is no such thing and a religiously neutral education and government should get out of it. Work toward complete privatization of all education. That is the only solution that is compatible with the First Amendment and freedom of conscience.
You are not alone. :)
Sheesh. Layers inside of layers to this.
You think it is OK to have to **PROVE** to the government your religion? Huh?
Where is that in the First Amendment?
I see your point and acknowledge that there is a first amendment issue.
But we are working with world as it is not the world as we wish it to be.
Government schools exist and are not likely to go away soon. I doubt the USSC will anytime soon take up the issue of Government schools being incompatible with the 1st Amendment
So I think we will just have to find some way of making a compromise with religious freedom and school dress codes.
I’d post, but you posted so I no longer have to post. Well said.
I disagree. Large and seemingly intractable institutions can and *have** lost their legitimacy overnight. Some examples are slavery, the Protestant Reformation, the American Revolution, the fall of absolute monarchy, Jim Crow, women and the vote...etc.
Nearly every state in the Union ( all?) have some form of charters, vouchers, and tax credits. The waiting lists are enormous for these programs. The legislators are not deaf to the cries and pleas of the families. And....The biggest factor is the state budgets. Vouchers, tax credits, and charters are the quickest and most rational way to balance the state budget and get from under the thumb of the teacher union benefits and retirement.
Also...Taxpayers are sick of the high property taxes ( in some states as high as one parent's entire take-home salary) to pay for government schools that teach atheism and Marxism and fail to teach basic reading and arithmetic.
I am very hopeful.
Besides....It is now becoming common knowledge that it is impossible to have a religiously neutral education. Secularism in our government schools is nothing more that government established religion of atheism. Parents and taxpayers are sick of it.
1) From the article it is impossible to know the religiously beliefs of the youth.
2) A religiously neutral education is impossible and not matter what the government does it will not be religiously neutral in content or consequences either for the youth or the other kids in the school.
3) The only solution that is compatible with the First Amendment and freedom of conscience, not only for the youth but the other students as well, is to work toward complete privatization of all education.
4) This kid is likely a snot! If he had been in a private school from the beginning both he and his parents would likely have had the benefit of feeling the full force of the law of natural consequences, and today, he might not be a brat.
Where in the Constitution does it say you have the free exercise of religion but only have government workers talk to the clergy?
I’d like to clarify. The offense would be wearing the rosary as a piece of jewelry. I was simply suggesting (if the child is part of a Catholic family) that (AWAY from school, etc) the parents would set up a time to talk their parish clergy to have the issue clarified for the child. I don’t know what I wrote that is so upsetting. Wearing of the rosary (at a minimum) is a total distraction in a school setting. Please write me again and let me know what I have said re First Amendment rights. Thank you.
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