Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

No-contact order over a student's rosary
http://mynorthwest.com/646/549684/Nocontact-order-over-a-students-rosary ^ | 9/26/2011 | Linda Thomas

Posted on 09/26/2011 2:15:27 PM PDT by Morgana

A high school student from Eastern Washington got a restraining order against his principal, after claiming the school leader threatened to use a pocketknife and to cut off a rosary the teen wears around his neck.

18-year-old Roel Corral, a student at Kiona-Benton City High School, is Catholic and wears a rosary to school. He says principal Wayne Barrett told him to remove it and threatened him, according to the Tri-City Herald newspaper which has been following this story.

Corral won a court hearing that ordered Barrett to stay at least 100 feet away from Corral, but earlier this week the judge's decision was modified to 25 feet on school property or at school events. The principal said the original order would have made it impossible for him to do his job.

If the principal threatened the student, which he denies, that's one issue. The question I have for you - is the principal right or wrong to ask Corral to remove a rosary from his neck? Here's the school's dress code:

(Excerpt) Read more at mynorthwest.com ...


TOPICS: Education; Local News
KEYWORDS: catholic; education; homeschooling; publicschools; rosary; schools
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-73 next last

1 posted on 09/26/2011 2:15:31 PM PDT by Morgana
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Morgana
This is so over the top I wonder if these two have ahistory of headbutting. Also, not defending the educrat’s thuggish behavior, Iknow gangs in the Yakima area have used rosaries as gang identifiers. Does anyone know if Latino bangers have started to do the same in the Spokane area?
2 posted on 09/26/2011 2:26:22 PM PDT by robowombat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Morgana
A rosary is not jewelry.
3 posted on 09/26/2011 2:30:13 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Palin is coming, and the Tea Party is coming with her.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: E. Pluribus Unum

I agree. Yutes these days are more likely to think they are. They should be carried in a pocket and used in prayer.


4 posted on 09/26/2011 2:32:44 PM PDT by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Morgana

It does seem to fit the “Dangling chains of any kind” category.


5 posted on 09/26/2011 2:33:02 PM PDT by USMCPOP (Father of LCpl. Karl Linn, KIA 1/26/2005 Al Haqlaniyah, Iraq)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: robowombat

This is ten miles from me; I have concluded that at some level the Rosary-necklace was intended as a gang symbol. However, the principal’s alleged threatening of actual physical violence (with the knife), if it occurred, seems to surpass the boy’s act in notoriety. I am a Catholic and pray the Rosary daily but would never think to hang it as a necklace.


6 posted on 09/26/2011 2:33:28 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture (Could be worst in 40 years))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Morgana
This student may or may not be a Catholic but he is definitely not devout. So I would not put this in the religious rights category.

A Rosary is not jewelry and should not be worn about the neck as a necklace. It should be carried in the pocket and be brought out for prayers and then returned to the pocket.

7 posted on 09/26/2011 2:33:43 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Morgana

Beam me up, Scottie.

When was atheism declared the Official State Non-religion in the politburo or the supreme soviet?

I mean, if we are now the USSA, let’s at least cross the t’s and dot the i’s, and do it by the book.


8 posted on 09/26/2011 2:37:04 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pontiac

Correct, this is not Catholic practice to wear the rosary outside, as jewelry.

But in a more general 1st Amd, sense, it is protected religious “speech.” Criminy, we now have Sikhs in the Army wearing bloody turbans.

So no way can the Official State Atheism Board rule out wearing a rosary. Unless the hijabs and turbans etc go as well.


9 posted on 09/26/2011 2:39:48 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: robowombat

>>>The principal said the original order would have made it impossible for him to do his job. <<<

I would think the fact that he is a moronic bully already makes it impossible for him to do his job.

I wonder what would happen if he threatened to cut off a muslim student’s head scarf?


10 posted on 09/26/2011 2:40:14 PM PDT by Above My Pay Grade
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: robowombat
I doubt if they have butted heads, robowombat. It is PC run amok in the NW. A rosary is certainly not jewelry. To some, it is a talisman of faith, love, hope--all good things. Does this school system, or the PC flakes who run it object to caps for jews, scarves/headcoverings for religions these things are a talisman/symbol for?

Establishment of a religion--I don't think so.

Now for those spacey systems that make the students dress the part and become, say, Muslims for a day to "understand" that religion, yeah!--that is Waaaaay beyond the pale.

vaudine

11 posted on 09/26/2011 2:40:22 PM PDT by vaudine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Travis McGee

According to whom?

Maybe not by English Catholics, yes, but different cultures have different norms wrt rosary.


12 posted on 09/26/2011 2:41:41 PM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman! 10 percent is enough for God; 9 percent is enough for government)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Morgana
is the principal right or wrong to ask Corral to remove a rosary from his neck?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

There is NO religiously, politically, culturally, or First Amendment neutral solution!

1) Removing the rosary has NON-neutral political, cultural, religious, and First Amendment and freedom of conscience consequences!

2) Allowing the rosary has non-neutral political, cultural, religious, and First Amendment and freedom of conscience consequences.

3) Both wearing and not wearing is not an option! Either choice #1 or #2 must be made.

So?....When will conservatives “get it”? A RELIGIOUSLY, POLITICALLY, and CULTURALLY NEUTRAL EDUCATION IS IMPOSSIBLE!!!

ALL GOVERNMENT SCHOOLS ARE FIRST AMENDMENT AND FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE ABOMINATION!

Solution: Begin the process of privatizing all education. Move toward complete separation of school and state.

( And Yeah! I am shouting. I am exasperated that so few conservatives “get it” or see the threat that government K-12 schooling is to our very existence as a free nation.)

13 posted on 09/26/2011 2:43:25 PM PDT by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Morgana

If the kid were a practicing Catholic, he would have said “Yes, sir” and put the rosary inconspicuously in his pants pocket or backpack. It is to be prayed, not warn as a personal fashion statement.


14 posted on 09/26/2011 2:44:22 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Damage to the Church comes not from opponents, but from uncommitted Christians. - Pope Benedict XVI)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Travis McGee

“Criminy, we now have Sikhs in the Army wearing bloody turbans”

So. I wore a kippah if I was not otherwise covered.


15 posted on 09/26/2011 2:45:12 PM PDT by MeanWestTexan (Beware Obama's Reichstag Fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: robowombat

Ki-Be is near Tri-Cities, not Spokane.
Plenty of gangs though.

This seems more an anti-religious beef than anti-gang.
Wrong crowds complaining.
(or usual suspects not)


16 posted on 09/26/2011 2:46:23 PM PDT by G Larry (I dream of a day when a man is judged by the content of his character)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Morgana

As a Catholic, I find it insulting to wear a rosary around the neck. I am on the Principal’s side. I hope the kid gets zero out of this.


17 posted on 09/26/2011 2:48:05 PM PDT by napscoordinator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: vaudine
I looked up the SD’s site and it does forbid caps or head coverings in classes. How yarmulke’s are treated is a mystery but it would seem the hijab would not be welcome here. I have known devout RC’s who prayed the rosary daily but they carried the rosary in their pocket and found a quiet place in the work area during lunch to conduct their orayrs. Never knew a male who wore the rosary. Ihaveknown plenty of males going back to high school who wore a cross or a St Christopher's medal on a chain under their shirt.
18 posted on 09/26/2011 2:48:28 PM PDT by robowombat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: E. Pluribus Unum

Could be a crucifix, not a rosary.

Reporters can’t get a single gun detail correct, it’s possible they don’t know how to to handle articles of Christianity either.


19 posted on 09/26/2011 2:50:36 PM PDT by sbMKE
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: E. Pluribus Unum; steve86; Pontiac; Travis McGee
A rosary is not jewelry.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It is impossible to know from the article the religious beliefs of this youth. His religion may be very syncretic ( a combination of pagan Mexican, South or Central American Indian beliefs and Catholicism.)

My husband and I speak Spanish and were asked by our church leaders to join the Spanish speaking congregation in our county. You would be **amazed** at what people believe.

20 posted on 09/26/2011 2:51:20 PM PDT by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Morgana
i have three sets but my favorite was my Grandmothers green jade set
21 posted on 09/26/2011 3:00:18 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BenKenobi

Maybe not by English Catholics, yes, but different cultures have different norms....

***
Well, it is not the norm in America to wear a rosary either. It is disrespectful to do so.


22 posted on 09/26/2011 3:03:15 PM PDT by Bigg Red (Another Maryland girl for Palin in 2012)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: BenKenobi

Maybe not by English Catholics, yes, but different cultures have different norms....

***
Well, it is not the norm in America to wear a rosary either. It is disrespectful to do so.


23 posted on 09/26/2011 3:03:15 PM PDT by Bigg Red (Another Maryland girl for Palin in 2012)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: E. Pluribus Unum; All

“A rosary is not jewelry.”

No it is not. However I have noticed that a lot of people from Latin America wear their rosaries around their neck. I really don’t think they mean disrespect they just want it close to their persons.


24 posted on 09/26/2011 3:04:05 PM PDT by Morgana ("Since using your shampoo my hair has come alive!" ----Medusa)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: wintertime

No doubt. I have some problems with “that” virgin on the center bit. Kind of a pagan/magical holdover, that now some of the worst criminals call their own.


25 posted on 09/26/2011 3:05:15 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: wintertime
Nice try but the Occam's Razor lex parsimoniae principle of simplest explanation that works is the right one: Gang Symbol. I am acquainted with quite a number of Hispanics around here. Although such a thing seems to exist in Mexico and Central America, I've never encountered a single resident of this area who was influenced on an on-going basis by syncretic beliefs.
26 posted on 09/26/2011 3:08:12 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture (Could be worst in 40 years))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: E. Pluribus Unum; steve86; Pontiac; Travis McGee
Also....Please my post #13.

There is **no** neutral solution. None.

The only solution is to begin the process of privatizing all education. What's need here is complete separation of school and state instead of judges playing Solomon trying to cut the baby of freedom of conscience in half.

27 posted on 09/26/2011 3:09:29 PM PDT by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Morgana
I have noticed that a lot of people from Latin America wear their rosaries around their neck

Yes, those are gang members/sympathizers.

The telling thing is that you NEVER EVER see one in Mass wearing the Rosary like that. If you have it is a new one on me.

28 posted on 09/26/2011 3:11:25 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture (Could be worst in 40 years))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Travis McGee; wintertime
So no way can the Official State Atheism Board rule out wearing a rosary. Unless the hijabs and turbans etc go as well.

Well from the article I do not see that this youth was being talked to about a religious display but rather he was approached about a violation of the dress code namely daggling necklaces.

So unless the youth can show that the Rosary in question was more than a necklace to him I believe that the school would be within its rights to prohibit the wearing of the Rosary.

I am a Catholic and would never countenance the wearing of the Rosary as a necklace in our local Catholic school.

That being said wintertime in post 20 mentions that some off shoots of Catholicism may wear the Rosary about the neck. So if the youth can claim membership in such a faith perhaps he could claim 1st amendment protection. But I think the youth would need to provide some proof of his claim. Perhaps a baptismal certificate.

29 posted on 09/26/2011 3:16:55 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: steve86
Do you visit their homes? Do you invite them over for dinner? Do you go to their homes for dinner? Do you teach their kids piano lessons? Do you run their cub scout troop? Do spend any nights of the week tutoring in reading and math? Do you teach their girls sewing? Are you in the same church choir with them? Do you teach English classes?

When you do, get back to me.

Many of the members of our congregation from Mexico, and Central and South America come to the church with very syncretic beliefs. The more rural their background the more likely this is to be the case.

Also...From the article is it **impossible** know what the beliefs of this child family are. Catholic? Yeah! Sort of!

The point is that is IMPOSSIBLE to have religiously neutral education .. Government schools are NOT religiously neutral and never have been.

Solution: Work toward closing down all government K-12 schooling. What is needed is complete separation of school and state.

30 posted on 09/26/2011 3:20:28 PM PDT by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: wintertime
Relax.
31 posted on 09/26/2011 3:23:33 PM PDT by starlifter (Pullum sapit)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Pontiac
Think about this....**please**.

You think it is OK to have to **PROVE** to the government your religion? Huh?

Where is that in the First Amendment?

Fundamentally, a religiously neutral education is impossible. There is no such thing a s religiously neutral government education! For this reason we must move toward privatizing all education in the nation. Let these matter be resolved privately between the parents and the principal of a private school.

32 posted on 09/26/2011 3:24:35 PM PDT by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Bigg Red

You’re in Maryland?

Maryland!= Texas.

And I’d argue that while Baltimore is important the Church here is older than Baltimore.


33 posted on 09/26/2011 3:25:34 PM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman! 10 percent is enough for God; 9 percent is enough for government)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o

For me its the threat of the principal to cut it off him that makes it a threat to the individual...not weather or not he is wearing a rosary...many people have them hanging from the mirror in their cars. It could be a reminder to some to say the prayers...


34 posted on 09/26/2011 3:26:37 PM PDT by goat granny
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: wintertime
The only solution is to begin the process of privatizing all education. What's need here is complete separation of school and state instead of judges playing Solomon trying to cut the baby of freedom of conscience in half.

*********************************

Agreed.

35 posted on 09/26/2011 3:27:11 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: starlifter
Yes you are right! Stupidity can be irritating.
36 posted on 09/26/2011 3:27:28 PM PDT by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Pontiac

“So unless the youth can show that the Rosary in question was more than a necklace to him I believe that the school would be within its rights to prohibit the wearing of the Rosary.”

That’s not how the first amendment works.


37 posted on 09/26/2011 3:28:47 PM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman! 10 percent is enough for God; 9 percent is enough for government)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: trisham
Thank goodness! Someone else who “gets it”. I am not all alone out here in the First Amendment wilderness.
38 posted on 09/26/2011 3:28:52 PM PDT by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: vaudine

The spirit of your post I do understand. Just to be a Catholic nerd, talisman refers to an object imbued with magical powers. The rosary is not magical—it is a prayer guide. And as others have said, the rosary should NEVER be worn as jewelry—it cheapens the sacred tradition. So I guess I would side with the principal maybe for a different reason. If the offender is Catholic, a talk with clergy would be a good thing.


39 posted on 09/26/2011 3:28:52 PM PDT by famousdayandyear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: E. Pluribus Unum
A rosary is not jewelry.

************************

It isn't, but is that why the principal acted as he did?

I don't think so.

40 posted on 09/26/2011 3:30:18 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: BenKenobi
How can some prove what they **think**. What you going to do? Is there some sort of magical MRI than read the intention's of one’s heart?

There is no such thing and a religiously neutral education and government should get out of it. Work toward complete privatization of all education. That is the only solution that is compatible with the First Amendment and freedom of conscience.

41 posted on 09/26/2011 3:31:41 PM PDT by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: wintertime

You are not alone. :)


42 posted on 09/26/2011 3:32:44 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Pontiac

Sheesh. Layers inside of layers to this.


43 posted on 09/26/2011 3:33:41 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: BenKenobi
One more thing: This snot of a kid would likely be better off in a private school where he ( and his parents) would be subjected to the full force of natural consequences.
44 posted on 09/26/2011 3:34:20 PM PDT by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: wintertime; BenKenobi
That’s not how the first amendment works.

You think it is OK to have to **PROVE** to the government your religion? Huh?

Where is that in the First Amendment?

I see your point and acknowledge that there is a first amendment issue.

But we are working with world as it is not the world as we wish it to be.

Government schools exist and are not likely to go away soon. I doubt the USSC will anytime soon take up the issue of Government schools being incompatible with the 1st Amendment

So I think we will just have to find some way of making a compromise with religious freedom and school dress codes.

45 posted on 09/26/2011 3:41:30 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: wintertime

I’d post, but you posted so I no longer have to post. Well said.


46 posted on 09/26/2011 3:45:05 PM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman! 10 percent is enough for God; 9 percent is enough for government)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Pontiac
Government schools exist and are not likely to go away soon.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I disagree. Large and seemingly intractable institutions can and *have** lost their legitimacy overnight. Some examples are slavery, the Protestant Reformation, the American Revolution, the fall of absolute monarchy, Jim Crow, women and the vote...etc.

Nearly every state in the Union ( all?) have some form of charters, vouchers, and tax credits. The waiting lists are enormous for these programs. The legislators are not deaf to the cries and pleas of the families. And....The biggest factor is the state budgets. Vouchers, tax credits, and charters are the quickest and most rational way to balance the state budget and get from under the thumb of the teacher union benefits and retirement.

Also...Taxpayers are sick of the high property taxes ( in some states as high as one parent's entire take-home salary) to pay for government schools that teach atheism and Marxism and fail to teach basic reading and arithmetic.

I am very hopeful.

Besides....It is now becoming common knowledge that it is impossible to have a religiously neutral education. Secularism in our government schools is nothing more that government established religion of atheism. Parents and taxpayers are sick of it.

47 posted on 09/26/2011 3:49:59 PM PDT by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: famousdayandyear
Please read my post #30.

1) From the article it is impossible to know the religiously beliefs of the youth.

2) A religiously neutral education is impossible and not matter what the government does it will not be religiously neutral in content or consequences either for the youth or the other kids in the school.

3) The only solution that is compatible with the First Amendment and freedom of conscience, not only for the youth but the other students as well, is to work toward complete privatization of all education.

4) This kid is likely a snot! If he had been in a private school from the beginning both he and his parents would likely have had the benefit of feeling the full force of the law of natural consequences, and today, he might not be a brat.

48 posted on 09/26/2011 3:59:29 PM PDT by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: famousdayandyear
If the offender is Catholic, a talk with clergy would be a good thing.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Where in the Constitution does it say you have the free exercise of religion but only have government workers talk to the clergy?

49 posted on 09/26/2011 4:01:23 PM PDT by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: wintertime

I’d like to clarify. The offense would be wearing the rosary as a piece of jewelry. I was simply suggesting (if the child is part of a Catholic family) that (AWAY from school, etc) the parents would set up a time to talk their parish clergy to have the issue clarified for the child. I don’t know what I wrote that is so upsetting. Wearing of the rosary (at a minimum) is a total distraction in a school setting. Please write me again and let me know what I have said re First Amendment rights. Thank you.


50 posted on 09/26/2011 4:10:11 PM PDT by famousdayandyear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-73 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson