Posted on 09/29/2011 8:43:31 AM PDT by Politics4US
Mark Levin says Rubio is a natural born citizen, and threatens to ban birthers on his social sites.
In before the “he’s an idiot and doesn’t understand the Constitution!” posts!
Sounds good to me.
The standard has been set, Rubio meets that standard, end of story.
Agreed.
By those standards, an Anchor Baby of illegal immigrants could become President.
What kind of popcorn did you bring?
The birthers will now proclaim Mark Levin to have no knowledge of the Constitution and be a secret liberal plant in our conservative movement.
He is correct, but no one will EVER convince a Vattel-birther.
After all, wasn’t natural born citizen found in a translation of Vattel made 10 years after the Constitution was written? And isn’t Vattel the true source of all American law, particularly on citizenship?
Of course, no state, no court and no congressman agrees, but that only means the conspiracy is VAST!
By law, more than likely, yes.
If Obama is an NBC because he was (allegedly) born in the U.S., then Rubio is an NBC because HE was born in the U.S. case closed, end of story.
From the DISSENT in Wong Kim Ark:
“Considering the circumstances surrounding the framing of the Constitution, I submit that it is unreasonable to conclude that “natural-born citizen” applied to everybody born within the geographical tract known as the United States, irrespective of circumstances, and that the children of foreigners, happening to be born to them while passing through the country, whether of royal parentage or not, or whether of the Mongolian, Malay or other race, were eligible to the Presidency, while children of our citizens, born abroad, were not.”
If Obama is an NBC because he was (allegedly) born in the U.S., then Rubio is an NBC because HE was born in the U.S. case closed, end of story.
Good! In any case, I suspect that half of the people posting those things are probably Dem plants trying to stoke the anti-immigrant crowd into attacking one of our more promising young GOP politicos (who is not an immigrant, but that doesn’t matter to them once they get going).
We are now about two miles past the last outrageous marker. Mark is just announcing that he is compromised too. I would like to see a clear definition from him on what he calls a “Natural Born Citizen”.
He seems to be saying that “by blood” is irrelevant, and “by soil” is all that matters. OK, Mark, then if the Russian intelligence agency decided to plant a mole who would become president someday, just bring a Russian woman over to give birth here. There is your “natural born” citizen. Riiiiiight. Mark, what is your problem?
Ask Mr. Levin to explain Minor vs. Happersett (1874)
I see, so native born = natural born, therefore any anchor baby can be president. Does anybody believe that the founding fathers actually had that in mind?
He first came out against birthers in 2009:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mchWfSC8Wv4
Then he talked about them a few months ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qnxegwhiSQ&feature=related
Doesn’t matter what the founding fathers had in mind.
The standard has been set.
Ok, I consider myself a strict Constitutionalist, but I might actually agree with Mark Levin, but not because of the “obama standard”.
I read that after the Spanish-American War, we signed a treaty giving us protectorate status over Cuba, along with the Philippines and Guam.
I may be totally wrong, it wouldn’t be the first time, but if I understand correctly, ANY Cuban citizen could rightfully claim American citizenship, unless that treaty has been formally dissolved.
I know that sounds crazy, and if I am wrong, and the treaty has been dissolved, and had been before the births of Mr. Rubios’ parents, then Mr. Rubio is not a natural born citizen.
You seem to be determined to ignore the SCOTUS Venus merchantman case of 1814, as well as dozens of SCOTUS cases that cite Vattel extensively for definition and reference.
The Venus case regarded the question whether the cargo of a merchantman, named the Venus, belonging to an American citizen, and being shipped from British territory to America during the War of 1812, could be seized and taken as a prize by an American privateer. But what the case said about citizenship, is what matters here.
What the Venus Case says on citizenship:
In the Venus Case, Justice Livingston, who wrote the unanimous decision, quoted the entire §212nd paragraph from the French edition, using his own English, on page 12 of the ruling:
Vattel, who, though not very full to this point, is more explicit and more satisfactory on it than any other whose work has fallen into my hands, says:
“The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives or indigenes are those born in the country of parents who are citizens. Society not being able to subsist and to perpetuate itself but by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights.”
“The inhabitants, as distinguished from citizens, are strangers who are permitted to settle and stay in the country. Bound by their residence to the society, they are subject to the laws of the state while they reside there, and they are obliged to defend it…”
Vattel has long been a significant precedent in American appelate and jurispredential history.
I suppose the special political status of Cubans may be a factor. They aren’t your typical immigrants. Had Rubio’s parents begun the citizenship process at the time of his birth?
If a pregnant U.S. citizen has her baby while traveling overseas, is that child a U.S. citizen?
In any event, if Obama is a Natural Born Citizen, I don’t see why Rubio shouldn’t be.
It matters to me. And just because an erroneous “standard” has been set does not mean it is right...i.e. roe wade, obamacare, ss, and apparently, natural born citizen. Our country is being destroyed by these unconstitutional “standards.”
The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts.
Why are we having this discussion?
The USA is now a very large banana republic. The Constitution is violated hundreds of times daily by the WH and the congress and the courts.
This is irrelevant because the meaning of the Constitution changes continuously to suit the purposes of our rulers, oops I mean our elected representatives.
And I am not being sarcastic. Discussing the Constitutionality of anything done by Washington is pointless.
anchor baby is a term of immigration law (slang actually).
Those were legally abolished in the 1996 immigration reform bill.
you also forget that cubans had a different status at that time under the law. think political refugees.
there are only two legal classes of citizen. naturalized and native/natural born. It may not be liked but it is the law now.
Well, now the Vattle Birthers are getting all Birthers into trouble by the stuff they keep saying. It is one thing to be common sense suspicious about paperwork and a whole another thing to promote false and bad legal advice about what a natural born citizen is.
I shook off the Mark Levin fairy dust awhile ago. Mark Levin is not the last word on the Constitution and he loves the sound of his own voice a little too much for me. He lost me after his creepy rant on Donald Trump followed up by an on air insult to one of my best friends last week. What idiot insults his own fans on air when they try to call in with some information on the subject at hand? He’s wrong about Rubio also. Most constitutional experts agree with the Vattel version of “Natural Born Citizen”.
Freepers here who want to go along with this combined GOP/Progressive elitist attempt to change the intent of the founding fathers had better sit down and think very hard about it first. The abomination sitting in the White Hut right now is the reason the founding fathers wanted the President to be born in the USA of two citizen parents. No conflicting loyalties.
No. There were rules for entering the country. They still exist.
Roe wade is law too, but is completely unconstitutional because it deprives individuals of their right to life and liberty. Also, regarding the unique case of cubans, did Levin point that out? Seems to me he is saying, born here = nbc, case closed.
What if Rubi was born by c-section? Is he still a natural born citizen??
Yes, that child would be an American Citizen, but also may be claimed as a citizen of the local where born, dependent of the countries laws.
The status of "Natural Born Citizen" in this case however is undecided law.
Nbc like so many other parts of the Constitution has become so bastardized and twisted that many conservatives have given up on the real meaning.
Levin correctly believes that nobody is going to accept the real meaning of NBC.
You said: “Most constitutional experts agree with the Vattel version of “Natural Born Citizen”.”
This is the kind of blatantly false statement stuff that has caused him to ban Vattle Birthers from his website. I would love to see you make a list of “constitutional experts” along with their qualifications, who believe the Vattle stuff.
So, are you saying an a baby born in this country of illegal immigrants is not an nbc under Levin’s definition? Did he state that?
I guess then according to Levin’s definition, the Mexican Drug Cartel leader’s twins that were just born in California are also NBCs and should be eligible to be president, too!!! COOL!~!!!!!
Yeah, good luck with that. Levin is a Constitutional Scholar and has more understanding of the document in his little finger than any 10 Freepers. So, to anyone who dissagrees with Levin on this: "Shut up ya big dope!" :)
“Get off the phone you big dummy.”
The absence of proof for this conspiracy is, itself, proof of just how deep and broad the conspiracy is.
He fails the Sans Nutjob test.
So, how stupid is your friend?
That’s fine if it matters to you. It also used to matter to me.
But it doesn’t matter to any judge, or any legislator, or any attorney general, or any secretary of state. It also doesn’t matter if it’s erroneous, or if it isn’t.
It simply is what it is.
Do you see who is president? Do you see what laws and regulations are about to be hoisted upon us?
That is reality.
And I, for one, am not about to play by a different set of rules than our opponents.
Sorry, but the standard has been set.
“This is the kind of blatantly false statement stuff that has caused him to ban Vattle Birthers from his website. I would love to see you make a list of “constitutional experts” along with their qualifications, who believe the Vattle stuff”
Better yet why don’t you look it up for yourself as it will give you a better understanding of the original intent of the founding fathers by actually reading all of the large body of work on the subject.
A child born to an illeal alien on US soil is NOT a US citizen. Illegal alien parents are not subject to the jurisdiction of the US because they have no allegiance to the US, therefore they can’t pass on citizenship to child.
No, you are crazy: Rubios parents both went through the naturalization process years after he was born.
Anyone born in the US or its holdings (military bases, for example) who is 35 years old and has lived in the US for 14 (I think it’s 14) years is qualified to run for the presidency.
I can give you a LONG list of people who shouldn’t be eligible to be President...but unfortunately are.
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