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Toyota Develops New Electric Car Battery(1000km per charge)
The Chosunilbo ^ | 10/24/11 | The Chosunilbo

Posted on 10/23/2011 9:57:17 PM PDT by aquila48

Toyota Motor has developed a secondary electric car battery that can last up to 1,000 km per charge, the Nihon Keizai Shimbun reported Monday. That is five times the energy storage capacity of existing batteries.

Toyota came up with the prototype in collaboration with the Tokyo Institute of Technology and the High Energy Accelerator Research Organization. The new battery is based on a solid core and its simplified structure means it does not require fire-retardant materials. It eliminates the disadvantages of lithium-ion batteries, which are based on an easily heatable and combustible liquid core.

Toyota plans to improve the battery and commercialize it sometime in...

(Excerpt) Read more at english.chosun.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: battery; toyota
Now this could be a game changer...
1 posted on 10/23/2011 9:57:26 PM PDT by aquila48
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To: aquila48

Get it to 1000 miles and it’ll be suitable for vacation travel.


2 posted on 10/23/2011 10:02:58 PM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: aquila48

Wow, now all we need is a heap of COAL the size of Nevada, and the EPA to go “F” itself so we can burn the coal to make electricity!


3 posted on 10/23/2011 10:06:07 PM PDT by LyinLibs (All moslems are somewhere on the killing-you spectrum)
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To: aquila48

You still have to modify your household electric just to charge it up.


4 posted on 10/23/2011 10:08:58 PM PDT by Crucial
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To: aquila48

What will it cost?


5 posted on 10/23/2011 10:25:11 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: aquila48

Have to wonder what the recharge time is, if it takes that long to discharge.


6 posted on 10/23/2011 10:28:36 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch ("Public service" does NOT mean servicing the people, like a bull among heifers.)
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To: TigersEye
> What will it cost?

It's a new technology, and cost will depend on wide adoption, mass production, and competition.

At first I expect it will be cost-prohibitive for all but the high-end. But it will plummet if it works and is adopted.

Consider: In the mid 1990's, flash memory was typically $200 for 1MB, and only crazy rich people used it. Today it's around $20 for 16GB, and everybody has a couple "thumb drives" laying around.

That's a cost reduction of more than 150,000:1 in only 15 years! Heck, even 10 years ago, no one in their right mind would have predicted that Flash would become so inexpensive. It's all about competition and mass production, once something is widely adopted.

The "early adopters" always pay a high premium.

7 posted on 10/23/2011 10:35:38 PM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: ApplegateRanch
> Have to wonder what the recharge time is, if it takes that long to discharge.

it all depends on how much heat is generated during charging. If the internal resistance is low, then not much heat, and you can charge it at much higher currents -- that means "faster".

Part of the problem with the present generation of batteries is that they generate a lot of heat when being charged, and you dare not let them overheat, so you are limited in how fast you can charge them.

8 posted on 10/23/2011 10:37:39 PM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: LyinLibs

When fuel taxes dry up they’ll supertax electricity.


9 posted on 10/23/2011 10:40:42 PM PDT by MaxMax
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To: dayglored

That is all a reasonable analysis but those are not the only factors involved in its basic price once they have played their part. Materials and production costs will have some lower limits and will affect how widely it is adopted as well.


10 posted on 10/23/2011 10:41:44 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: ApplegateRanch
Have to wonder what the recharge time is, if it takes that long to discharge.


For a first approximation if it holds five times the charge it will take five times longer to “fill” at the same current.

The present limit is the current available in your household supply - the 30A 220v dryer socket equivalent.

So if the Leaf needs 8 hours for a full charge the new battery will need about 40 hours for a full, but bigger, charge.

A lot more charging infrastructure will be needed - invest in copper...:^)

11 posted on 10/23/2011 10:56:12 PM PDT by az_gila
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To: aquila48
Relax folks it is still a hybrid. The tip off is the term "secondary battery".

5x40 is 200 miles, the other 400 miles is from the primary gas engine.

12 posted on 10/23/2011 11:01:42 PM PDT by PeaceBeWithYou (De Oppresso Liber! (50 million and counting in Afghanistan and Iraq))
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To: dayglored
" The "early adopters" always pay a high premium. "

Let the liberals, envirowakos burden the early costs of this new technology.
13 posted on 10/23/2011 11:02:04 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: aquila48

Ditto. Now how long will charge last running an AC in summer or heater in winter?


14 posted on 10/23/2011 11:03:57 PM PDT by Sea Parrot (Democrats creation of the entitlement class will prove out to be their very own Frankenstein monster)
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To: dayglored

True, but there’s a limit to how much current a household can draw, which could be the true limiting factor to recharge time. 1,000KM is a lot of drive time hours, so it has to hold a lot of KWH.

“Memory” is another factor. IF the new battery is not affected by that affliction, then one could drive 4 hours; stop for an hour to eat, while leaving it on a charger to partially recharge. Or, could replenish a partially depleted battery nightly, after the daily commute.

If it IS so afflicted, then trips would need to carefully planned so that it runs out of juice where you wish to spend the night, and are able to give it full charge.


15 posted on 10/23/2011 11:05:41 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch ("Public service" does NOT mean servicing the people, like a bull among heifers.)
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To: aquila48

Isn’t 1000 KM about 12 and a half miles? Maybe my calculator is broken.


16 posted on 10/23/2011 11:08:16 PM PDT by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
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To: PeaceBeWithYou

A “secondary battery” is a rechargable battery.

A “primary battery” is a non-rechargable, such as ‘regular’ flashlight & lantern batteries.

It isn’t talking about a hybrid.


17 posted on 10/23/2011 11:09:22 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch ("Public service" does NOT mean servicing the people, like a bull among heifers.)
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To: ApplegateRanch
Have to wonder what the recharge time is, if it takes that long to discharge.

One thing for certain; you won’t be charging it on 120VAC house hold current. You have to put in to a battery more than you will take out of it.

You have to put in to a battery more Kilowatt Hours than you will take out of it to push your car down the road. A battery that can store that much power will need to have at least a 220VAC power supply to charge the battery in a reasonable amount of time. No wimpy lamp cord charger is going to charge this monster.

18 posted on 10/23/2011 11:11:24 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Lazlo in PA

Unless that is sarcasm, 1000KM comes to just over 620 miles.

If it wasn’t sarcasm, it still comes to just over 620 miles.


19 posted on 10/23/2011 11:12:30 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch ("Public service" does NOT mean servicing the people, like a bull among heifers.)
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To: Lazlo in PA

1000 km is about 620 miles.


20 posted on 10/23/2011 11:14:50 PM PDT by PeaceBeWithYou (De Oppresso Liber! (50 million and counting in Afghanistan and Iraq))
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To: dayglored

I recharged an alkaline battery using a car battery. It could only be connected for a few seconds. Even at that it got hot. But, what was a dead battery before had enough juice to power a radio again. Figured it was too dangerous to do so only tried it a coulpe of times.

Im guessing the 12 volt car battery was too much too quick for an alkaline battery which is why it got too hot to touch based on the explanation you offered in your post.


21 posted on 10/23/2011 11:16:05 PM PDT by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
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To: ApplegateRanch

LOL. I must have forgotten to carry the 8.


22 posted on 10/23/2011 11:22:20 PM PDT by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
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To: Lazlo in PA

“Isn’t 1000 KM about 12 and a half miles? Maybe my calculator is broken.”

How on earth did you come up with that number? How about 600 miles.


23 posted on 10/23/2011 11:23:26 PM PDT by aquila48
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To: buccaneer81

Maybe for one person and a small cat providing they had no luggage.


24 posted on 10/23/2011 11:28:14 PM PDT by Grams A (The Sun will rise in the East in the morning and God is still on his throne.)
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To: dayglored
Yep, the first RGB puter I bought with a 20 meg HD was over 1300 $. I just bought a new Acer desktop AX3910-U2032 Pent E6600 3.06Ghz 4GB 640GB DVDRW for under 300 bucks.

Pretty plain Jane vanilla , but for the money suits my needs just fine.

25 posted on 10/23/2011 11:29:04 PM PDT by Sea Parrot (Democrats creation of the entitlement class will prove out to be their very own Frankenstein monster)
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To: aquila48

My abacus is missing some beads. Obviously they are the important ones.


26 posted on 10/23/2011 11:29:12 PM PDT by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
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To: az_gila

Unless E-cat works, and then copper is going to be the most common metal on earth in the future.

If both of them pan out, it would be totally awesome. Cheap energy and a convenient way to move it around.

Here’s hoping!!!


27 posted on 10/23/2011 11:36:49 PM PDT by Ronin (If we were serious about using the death penalty as a deterrent, we would bring back public hangings)
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To: ApplegateRanch

It is still a hybrid and over 2/3rds of it’s range is still from gas - all of it unless you can plug it in somewhere and wait for the charge to trickle in.


28 posted on 10/23/2011 11:43:50 PM PDT by PeaceBeWithYou (De Oppresso Liber! (50 million and counting in Afghanistan and Iraq))
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To: PeaceBeWithYou
Toyota Motor has developed a secondary electric car battery that can last up to 1,000 km per charge, the Nihon Keizai Shimbun reported Monday. That is five times the energy storage capacity of existing batteries.

The story is about the B-A-T-T-E-R-Y, not a C-A-R.

The BATTERY is a new type of rechargeable ("secondary") battery that has much greater capacity than current battery types.

This has NOTHING to do with an engine, gasoline or otherwise.

It may very well be installed in future hybrids, but that is a moot point to this article/discussion.

29 posted on 10/23/2011 11:53:19 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch ("Public service" does NOT mean servicing the people, like a bull among heifers.)
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To: Ronin

Unless E-cat works, and then copper is going to be the most common metal on earth in the future.


Not to worry, even IF e-cat works, the anti nuke people will be ALL over it.


30 posted on 10/23/2011 11:57:20 PM PDT by cableguymn
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To: ApplegateRanch
....developed a secondary electric car battery....

Sounds like they're talking about cars to me.

Does Toyota have a non-hybrid, all electric, car nobody knows about? ....that travels 120 miles per charge?

If so, please share the link.

31 posted on 10/24/2011 12:07:01 AM PDT by PeaceBeWithYou (De Oppresso Liber! (50 million and counting in Afghanistan and Iraq))
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To: aquila48

More importantly, can one of these be used in a cellphone?


32 posted on 10/24/2011 12:22:58 AM PDT by eclecticEel (Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness: 7/4/1776 - 3/21/2010)
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To: Lazlo in PA

http://www.convert-me.com/en/convert/length

1000KM = 621.4 Miles


33 posted on 10/24/2011 12:25:40 AM PDT by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: ApplegateRanch

If this new battery suffers from significant memory effect, it will be useless for transportation applications. Let us hope it does not.


34 posted on 10/24/2011 12:25:52 AM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: eclecticEel
More importantly, can one of these be used in a cellphone?

Too many structural changes required to provide adequate leg room and a steering column in a cellphone.

35 posted on 10/24/2011 1:58:02 AM PDT by NautiNurse (Why does Ron Paul wear false eyebrows?)
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To: aquila48

That 1000 km/621 miles range happens to be the approximate range of a VW TDI Diesel, and the TDI only takes 10 minutes to “recharge”.


36 posted on 10/24/2011 2:15:35 AM PDT by Fresh Wind ('People have got to know whether or not their President is a crook.' Richard M. Nixon)
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To: aquila48

A new and improved coal powered car!

Too bad 0bama wants to put coal out of business, making electricity “neccessarily skyrocket”.


37 posted on 10/24/2011 2:20:40 AM PDT by airborne (Paratroopers! Good to the last drop!)
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To: dayglored

And cell phone contracts continue to rise along witht the cost of hearing aides to name a few...


38 posted on 10/24/2011 2:33:47 AM PDT by Post5203 (Our political class have sullied a good man's name...Washington)
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To: TigersEye

More than 4 cars but just one will work great in a flashlight! ;-)


39 posted on 10/24/2011 3:00:02 AM PDT by Average Al (Forbidden fruit leads to many jams.)
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To: buccaneer81

1000 miles is beyond what the majority of gasoline cars can do. The real question is how much acceleration it offers.


40 posted on 10/24/2011 3:20:44 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Lazlo in PA

perhaps you are thinking centimeters


41 posted on 10/24/2011 3:24:06 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver

Unfortunately, it’s only 621 miles (1000 km). If this new battery is for a hybrid with a smaller gas engine than the Prius then the government-subsidized Chevy Volt sales are going to get worse. If, however, this battery is for a fully-electric vehicle, it will be a game-changer. Fleet sales may become more viable.


42 posted on 10/24/2011 4:56:56 AM PDT by 12Gauge687 (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice)
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To: aquila48

Definitely an improvement, but think of all the other things in your vehicle that would also have to run off that battery and thus reduce the mileage. It is unavoidable to need headlights, heaters, defrosters and windshield wipers while driving. Most drivers would not be too likely to give up air conditioning, the stereo system or power windows (especially if you want to avoid using the air conditioning). Batteries also do not perform well when the temperatures are below freezing or above 100 degrees. That 1000km range might be theoretically possible under ideal conditions like driving in daylight, over flat roads, with no wind and 70 degree temperatures, but in real world conditions could I trust that battery to take me on vacation?


43 posted on 10/24/2011 5:20:59 AM PDT by The Great RJ ("The problem with socialism is that pretty soon you run out of other people's money" M. Thatcher)
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To: aquila48

Charge time? How much $ for a full charge? I haven’t seen many comparative reports for electric vehicles and corresponding electric bill increases.


44 posted on 10/24/2011 5:24:35 AM PDT by Caipirabob ( Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: dayglored
Very true point about flash drives, however consider: They were designed around existing technology. Anyone could use them. You didn't have to buy a new computer to use the flash drive. There was a demand for small, portable storage devices and this met the market demand. There were no compromises nor set backs for maintenance nor performance.

When we're discussing a 40-60K expense after a price decrease, the comparison to a $200 first generation flash drive don't necessarily add up to making this a viable purchase.

I have not seen any in depth analysis as to whether or not our electrical grid in this country can truly sustain a massive fleet of civilian electric vehicles. Seems to me we need to address that first before progress in this arena can be made.

As I see it now, there's no "durable value" in promoting electric vehicles to civilian consumers outside of novelty.

Maybe after the larger issue of energy is thoroughly addressed.

45 posted on 10/24/2011 5:31:41 AM PDT by Caipirabob ( Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: 12Gauge687
Unfortunately, it’s only 621 miles

That's still a greater range than typical for current cars. My Camry gets about 450 (+/- 20) miles on a full tank.

46 posted on 10/24/2011 5:32:43 AM PDT by kevkrom (This space for rent.)
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To: kevkrom
I would bet that 1000km/621 miles is like the estimated MPG on a new car window sticker, your mileage will vary(be less).

In the case of a hybrid/electric quite a bit less.

47 posted on 10/24/2011 10:10:10 AM PDT by PeaceBeWithYou (De Oppresso Liber! (50 million and counting in Afghanistan and Iraq))
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To: driftdiver
1000 miles is beyond what the majority of gasoline cars can do.

Yes, but gasoline cars can be refueled in five minutes. I have been known to drive well over 600 miles a day on the way to a vacation spot. I can drive from Columbus to Panama City Beach today in 12 hours with a total of 15 minutes in fuel stops. With a 600 mile electric, I'd have to stop in Montgomery for the night and waste a vacation day...in each direction.

48 posted on 10/24/2011 12:30:45 PM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: dayglored
it all depends on how much heat is generated during charging.

All that heat is wasted energy, reducing the efficiency of the whole process. So a battery that charges with low heat would not only be safer, it would be a lot more efficient.

49 posted on 10/24/2011 12:47:06 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: The Great RJ

Found an excellent blog on the effects of cold weather on electric cars. And this is a pro-electric car site.

http://www.thecarelectric.com/content/electric-cars-in-cold-climates.php

They say it is likely that really cold weather, MN/MI/MT type, will cut range by 50% or more. Also cuts power proportionately. Climbing in the mountains will also burn juice like crazy. In cold weather you might have trouble even climbing at a reasonable speed.

The possible consequences of a car running out of juice in extremely cold weather in a remote area might be interesting. In the Chinese sense.


50 posted on 10/24/2011 1:27:56 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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