Posted on 10/24/2011 7:35:54 PM PDT by Kevmo
eCat Has European Certification
October 24, 2011 | Author: admin
Many of us have been wondering about Defkalion’s stated progress (or otherwise) regarding official certification of their eCat derivatives. Since their divorce, it is interesting to note that Andrea Rossi states that he has completed CE compliance:
Andrea Rossi October 23rd, 2011 at 8:08 AM Dear Dario: The CE for the business to business has been done. For household applications not yet. Warm Regards, A.R .
The following snips are from the wiki entry:
CE marking (originally EC mark[1]) is a mandatory conformity mark for products placed on the market in the European Economic Area… .
… It means that the manufacturer has verified that the product complies with all relevant essential requirements (such as safety, health, environmental protection requirements) of the applicable directive(s) or, if stipulated in the directive(s), had it examined by a notified conformity assessment body…
…The CE marking is mandatory for certain product groups in the European Economic Area (EEA), consisting of the 27 Member States of the EU and EFTA countries Iceland, Norway, Switzerland and Liechtenstein…
…Depending on the level of risk of the product, the CE marking is affixed to a product by the manufacturer or authorised representative who decides whether the product meets all the CE marking requirements…
It seems as though self assessment is allowed and it is up to the manufacturer to decide on what is needed with reference to product category etc. While I suppose it is always possible to claim CE early in a product cycle without conforming (especially if the product category is not obvious), something as controversial as the eCat, that will likely be high-profile and definitely subject to safety considerations would have to be certified by an authorised body. This can be a private company but must be independent from the manufacturer .
Remembering that AR has extensive business experience in Italy and has dealt with serious amounts of energy before and remembering too that he has fallen foul of the rules in his Petroldragon days, it seems unlikely that his statement is anything other than as it says .
Of course, the rules for business to business are likely to be less stringent than those for sale to the public. ‘How different?’ is an interesting question. Ironically, perhaps by going big and targeting high-energy industries, certification is relatively easy to obtain .
Could this be one reason for going to 1MW?
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The CE mark certifies compliance with some standards. The device won’t give you a shock, catch on fire, radiate dangerous EMI, etc. Pretty much any consumer product has it. Look on the bottom of your laptop/tv/stereo/blender....etc
So who certified the eCat, and on what basis? (These minor details were not in the post/story.)
Does this CE certification require the device to work?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_mark
A snippet of the article:
Legally, the CE marking is no quality mark. But depending on the applicable directive the CE marking factually can be considered to be a quality mark. Deviating from sectoral directives regulating other industrial goods, medical devices have to comply with “essential requirements” as described in Annex I of Directive 93/42/EEC, according to which medical devices have to be not only safe but also function in a medical-technical way as described in the manufacturer’s “intended purpose”. Compliance with these requirements is proved within a certified quality management system according to EN ISO 13485.
It seems if it’s a medical device it does have to do what it says. I don’t see that for other devices although I could be wrong and if I am, I’m sure someone will point it out.
Tick tock, tick tock...
We have had customers who went through CE certification with our products. It’s apparently a big pain in the rear, and there are specialist companies that focus on this process. Most companies give up and go to these vendors.
Waiting for the verification of eCat’s authenticity is like supporters of Sarah Palin waiting for her announcement for the Presidential campaign. I stand on the side of skepticism.
Soon.
Possibly Rossi?
“It seems as though self assessment is allowed and it is up to the manufacturer to decide on what is needed with reference to product category etc”
I think I will just wait and see if the thing outputs the promised hot water as it goes into operation at the university.
I really don't give a crap about the minutia, or the flaming egos of inbred academics.
Other people can base all their beliefs about the world on the rantings of this or that credentialed messiah instead of looking around themselves and observing if they want to though.
So does Greece. :)
As you indicate, some devices have to function according to your documentation. But even that doesn't mean that they work. For example, an EEG machine may blink lights and show some graphs on the screen, but it doesn't mean that it produces any useful output. The standard is only concerned with using it during the test as a customer would.
Most of the compliance testing is done based on honesty of everyone involved. For example, if you are certifying a gadget you test what you are going to manufacture, and not a hand-built and hand-optimized version of it. The lab people wouldn't know the difference because they aren't going to travel to China to see what comes from the production line. A less than honest manufacturer can always test a product that is built well enough, and then manufacture a cheaper version of it. In essence, as long as he is not sued nobody would ever know what he did.
If he wanted he could build a machine as a fountain outside of his office. The fountain would be lifted above the ground on some transparent (Lexan) standoffs, so that everyone can crawl underneath and see that there are no cables. The fountain would be heating the water, so that it's always hot. The fountain could work 24/7, well guarded so that nobody steals the secret sauce. [But is he going to guard *all* his power plants? That's not realistic. His secret will be out in minutes after the first device is sold.]
But otherwise yes, his short runs of the machine are disconcerting. But I have no dog in this race; it's up to the customer to check what they are buying. If I were them I'd be seriously worried about paying money for a power plant that works on a principle that science doesn't understand. For all I know, it could stop working tomorrow, or it could explode, or it could start radiating death rays, etc. Earlier discoverers of radioactivity were oblivious to the danger, with sad results:
Skłodowska–Curie visited Poland for the last time in the spring of 1934. Only a few months later, on 4 July 1934, Skłodowska-Curie died at the Sancellemoz Sanatorium in Passy, in Haute-Savoie, eastern France, from aplastic anemia contracted from exposure to radiation. The damaging effects of ionizing radiation were not then known, and much of her work had been carried out in a shed, without proper safety measures. She had carried test tubes containing radioactive isotopes in her pocket and stored them in her desk drawer, remarking on the pretty blue-green light that the substances gave off in the dark. [link]
We call that a “patina”.
What is that? A car air filter?
For example, Rossi uses an electric heating element, presumably in contact with the water flowing through the system. He would have to document that his device will not electrocute someone because of this. The easiest way of doing this is to buy a heater that is already CE certified to work in that environment, which is probably what Rossi did. He would then have to document that he is using that particular heater, and that he is using it as designed.
I would be interested in knowing whether his application mentions nuclear fusion. It might be that nuclear processes are outside of the jurisdiction of CE, and they might ignore it since it is outside of their jurisdiction.
But, presumably, there is some government organization that does have jurisdiction for any sort of nuclear reactor, and if Rossi is running his reactor without their knowledge and consent, he could be in serious trouble because of it. Especially if he blows up the city when his reactor goes supercritical.
Of course, if he isn't really doing any nuclear process, he wouldn't need to worry about certification from any nuclear agency.
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