9-9-9 plan is a tax increase on the disabled and retired.

[SoJoCo]

Not to mention that the taxes paid by the farmers, the truckers, the grocery stores, etc, will ALL BE LOWER therefore reducing the price of everything far more than the 9%.

Will they? If you lower the tax rate but raise the amount a company is taxed on then what corporations pay may go up and not down.

[SoJoCo]

Gross versus Net is a difficult concept for some.

OK, I'm a manufacturer. I don't operate in an Opportunity Zone so I can't deduct my labor costs. About half the goods I buy are imported so I can't deduct those. I don't export so I can't deduct that. My capital investments remain constant. So where before I could take my gross and deduct labor expenses, cost of raw materials, any other operating expenses, and capital expenses in order to find my net which would be my taxable income, under Cain I take my gross and deduct my capital expenses, maybe some of my operating costs, and only half my cost for raw materials to find my taxable income. So my tax rate may go down, but the amount I'm taxed on goes way, way up. Where are the savings I'm supposed to pass on to the consumers?

[Cruising For Freedom]

I’m going to debate this without the “but, prices will drop” argument.

First, your post is putting off a lot of people by speaking for all retired & disabled — not all disabled people draw SSD and not all people getting SSD/SSI are disabled. Nor do all retired people get hurt by 999. 999 is going to be the best thing that happened to people that have saved properly in their 401Ks.

Fact is, the status quo is to use inflation as a sneak way of cutting entitlements, so you’re going to be getting 10% and eventually 20% less for what you’re receiving, with or without 999. Everyone is. Might as well as choose the plan and candidate that is serious about cutting taxes and spending, and you won’t be seeing your spending ability go down by 50% — which is where it’s currently headed.

So why should you pay 18%? Well, why are you entitled to your current net income when it comes at the expense of many 53%ers like me who are bleeding way, way more than 18% in payroll and income taxes?

[hocndoc]

Not much help for the original poster, who had no choice, is locked in.

The new National sales tax is an invitation to government growth, just in building the bureaucracy to collect it.

[PieterCasparzen]

If everyone has to pay income tax at 9%, everyone will think twice about voting for Congressmen who constantly brag about how much money they “bring back” to their home state.

Some old folks keep supporting increased Feral government spending by constantly voting for their favorite politicians. If they had to pay for it themselves in the form of income tax and a national sales tax they would start to see the light on the expanding the “government bubble”.

As things are now - people who earn (sorry, I meant to say EARN) well over $100,000 per year are the only ones who are paying high income taxes.

[USS Alaska]

Since I’m in favor of dirty air and dirty water and letting women die on the floor, why would I give a rat’s ass about an old retired person living on SS? S/off

[ilgipper]

Didn’t anyone take Economics 101?

It is clear that a vast majority of Americans have no clue when it comes to basic economics. We are in a real mess because of 80 years ignoring those principles.

[SoJoCo]

As things are now - people who earn (sorry, I meant to say EARN) well over $100,000 per year are the only ones who are paying high income taxes.

And I think that we can agree that such people will normally vote against someone who is running on a platform of raising their taxes? Since Cain's plan will raise taxes of the people not currently paying income taxes and those paying a low percentage in income taxes, how can anyone expect them to vote for Cain?

[NELSON111]

This is what I like: A poster who posts a thread making an accusation...in the form of a question...and then LEAVES.

You responded one time...which implies that just because YOU can't find it...it must not be there.

Perhaps as the original poster you should come back to the thread and ask some questions about the 9-9-9...especially since many good FReepers are doing an OUTSTANDING job of debunking your fears.

As another poster has said: Do you not understand the taxes that businesses and corporations pass on to you...even in food? Even my dad (RIP)...a UNION yellow dog democrat once told me as a teenager (and I remember it to this day) that businesses should not be taxed AT ALL because businesses don't pay taxes...they pass it on to the consumer.

So...if the businesses...companies...middle men...producers have less tax to begin with (9% as opposed to whatever 20-30% tax rate they are paying now)...that means the end product costs less when it gets to you. That 20-30% in hidden tax becomes 9%. Plus it is a certainty that food would be exempted...as it is here in Texas.

Clear enough?

NOW to play devil's advocate for the rest of the FREEPERS: There would have to be a mechanism in place by which businesses and corporations did not keep the tax as profit once a conversion to 9% happened. I am reminded of the airlines' response to the aviation tax that got rescinded and how many of them kept that money that had been a tax...and just raised the price of the ticket by that much.

In the law there would have to be a means of stopping companies from doing this. For instance...if a $20K car has $4K of corporate taxes built into the price of the vehicle...then what is stopping Gm from saying "OK...the price of the car is not $17,500 now (base plus 95) but still 20K...and they keep the extra as profit? American airlines did it and I would imagine others would too.

[JimRed]

We seem to be missing the big picture, though. The 9-9-9 proposal has opened a discussion that has been needed for a long, long time. The current system is unacceptable, let’s get a new one worked out.

[waynesa98]

the average federal tax you are already paying is 22%. thus cains 999 is a 13% reduction. Get rid of ethanol and you can add another 2-5% reduction in food costs.

[Cruising For Freedom]

You’re right. I’m not wedded to 999 — but I would like to see one flat tax for everyone, no deductions.

I have a sibling who makes significantly less than me. I calculated his taxes one day, and he makes more in net pay than I do because he gets that many more deductions. He gets handouts and entitlements on top of that because he’s “poor.” I’ll admit, I’ve been steamed over that ever since.

The current system is extremely unfair. While cutting spending is the ultimate answer, the 999 debate has been extremely enlightening in that it’s revealed just how many people are paying such few taxes to the extent that raising them to a mere 9% are supposedly a hardship for them.

[Quicksilver]

How'd you come up with that pen name? Is it a reference to "Mercury" or to a motorcycle fairing?

Alas, the story behind the origin of my pseudonym isn't as sexy as a motorcycle fairing.

During the CB radio boom in the 1970s I wanted a handle that was fast and shiny, after some reflection I settled on Quicksilver and it has stuck with me ever since. To this day people call me by that name when I'm out and about.

[Quicksilver]

Fresh steer manure is "used food"; composted steer manure is "new fertilizer".

That's a perfect illustration of the potential issues a national sales tax based on new goods (I suppose all services are new) would have to resolve.

[Arrowhead1952]

Check out the posting history of this individual!!

[PieterCasparzen]

Since Cain's plan will raise taxes of the people not currently paying income taxes and those paying a low percentage in income taxes, how can anyone expect them to vote for Cain?

A few IMHO thoughts on that...

One, I think people from about 50-65 years old at this point are coming to the realization that while both Dems and Repubs may promise to keep both SS and Medicare programs paying out, the payments from these programs are both looking at getting shrunk over the next 30 to 40 years, which, of course, is the time period that effects them.

Little by little these folks are realizing that government employees are squeezing them out of benefits - and that government employees have nice pensions to supplement their own SS.

Many people 50 and over either don't understand what's going on or don't want to - they will always vote Democratic.

All that's needed to elect Cain, however, is for a decent amount of seniors to support him.

I think many older people realize that along with retirees on SS paying very low or no income taxes or receiving checks for EIC - there are a lot of people 18 to 50 years old who also pay little or no income taxes or get EIC. Those are the ones who need to be scooped up into the system to become taxpayers - even if, as Michele Bachmann says, it's only a small amount. Everyone who earns income should pay at least some small amount of income tax.

If having to pay some income tax will put the country on the right track and shrink the government, 20 to 40 years from now SS can still be paying out to today's retirees. I think many seniors and people near retirement are now seeing how the Feral government has spent the OASDI so-called "trust funds" in with general Feral spending on Feral employees and Feral contractors (leaving only $2.5 trillion of unredeemable "securities", and how the "other" spending is growing explosively and beyond all reason. I think they are starting to realize that without a small-government "crazy" Congress and President, their "lifeline" SS and Medicare programs will simply be edged out, with every dollar cut making the SS-retiree's life more painful and the system all the more worthless. I certainly think many people now understand the "big-government" idea squashes small business and therefore dries up tax revenue. I also think that maybe - just maybe - people are starting to see (Europe will probably demonstrate this first) that when the Feral beast borrows out in front of tax revenue that it is only setting itself up for an even more painful bursting of a government debt bubble down the road.

I liken it to having a dozen people on a sinking raft that needs to row back to shore and it will take a few days and they have no food or water. With 6 not rowing and 3 of them elderly, the 3 elderly would certainly paddle in the water with their hands a little and cut their own rations if by doing that the 6 rowers would force the 3 lazies to row and cut their rations as well.

I only hope that these government-mandated defined benefit plans become "legacy" programs that are phased out starting with people around 40 - or even less.