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Taming Unruly Wind Power
NY Times ^ | November 4, 2011 | MATTHEW L. WALD

Posted on 11/05/2011 1:22:31 PM PDT by neverdem

For decades, electric companies have swung into emergency mode when demand soars on blistering hot days, appealing to households to use less power. But with the rise of wind energy, utilities in the Pacific Northwest are sometimes dealing with the opposite: moments when there is too much electricity for the grid to soak up.

So in a novel pilot project, they have recruited consumers to draw in excess electricity when that happens, storing it in a basement water heater or a space heater outfitted by the utility. The effort is rooted in some brushes with danger.

In June 2010, for example, a violent storm in the Northwest caused a simultaneous surge in wind power and in traditional hydropower, creating an oversupply that threatened to overwhelm the grid and cause a blackout.

As a result, the Bonneville Power Administration, the wholesale supplier to a broad swath of the region, turned this year to a strategy common to regions with hot summers: adjusting volunteers’ home appliances by remote control to balance supply and demand...

--snip--

While Bonneville pays for them now, Philip D. Lusk, the power resources manager for the utility department of the city of Port Angeles — the Rothweilers’ retail supplier — said the agency might have to find additional ways of compensating consumers to get the thousands of volunteers it will eventually need to make the system effective.

If the installations are judged to benefit everyone because they improve stability, the cost might be spread among all ratepayers. But if Bonneville decides that they mainly benefit the wind generators because they never have to unplug their turbines, the agency could try to charge that industry.

Either way, said Mr. Johnson, the Bonneville spokesman, the agency will have to come up with a solution to “the cranky nature of wind.”

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Weather
KEYWORDS: windpower

1 posted on 11/05/2011 1:22:34 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem
Image Source,Photobucket Uploader Firefox Extension
2 posted on 11/05/2011 1:24:16 PM PDT by gorush (History repeats itself because human nature is static)
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To: neverdem
Image Source,Photobucket Uploader Firefox Extension
3 posted on 11/05/2011 1:42:44 PM PDT by gorush (History repeats itself because human nature is static)
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To: neverdem

Have altenatives charge battery arrays that can then be used at whatever level needed as stored energy.


4 posted on 11/05/2011 1:50:10 PM PDT by Taking Congress back in 2010
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To: neverdem

What society needs is a way to store electrical energy,
we already know plenty of ways to produce it.


5 posted on 11/05/2011 1:51:11 PM PDT by Repeal The 17th
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To: neverdem

EASY FIX -—> Get super-huge one hundred foot diameter ELECTRIC fans and mount them on towers BEHIND those three-propeller wind turbins. Problem solved: propellers turn 24 hours a day, even when there is no wind, thus producing electricity.


6 posted on 11/05/2011 1:58:52 PM PDT by jmax
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To: Repeal The 17th

“Time-shift” it, more than store it for long periods of time like chemical batteries are designed to do. For example, Wyoming has a great wind resource but has a small population, thus is in a great position to export power from wind generation. The state is also toward the eastern edge of the Mountain Time Zone, which means the wind tends to produce power at a different time of day than in power-hungry California. In this case the shift is favorable but that’s not always the case. Using wind to pump water into reservoirs that can run hydro generators is also being utilized.

I don’t know why otherwise intelligent FReepers exhibit Algore-like scientific tendencies whenever an article favorable to wind power is posted. As conservatives, we should be championing the application of science and engineering - in free markets - to address our energy needs. While there are subsidies today, wind has been moving rapidly toward self-sufficiency and that is the ultimate goal of the industry.


7 posted on 11/05/2011 2:01:16 PM PDT by bigbob
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To: jmax

Even better, just blow up nuclear weapons behind the wind turbines whenever there is no wind. We could call it “nuclear power”.


8 posted on 11/05/2011 2:08:46 PM PDT by palmer (Before reading this post, please send me $2.50)
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To: bigbob

I’ve got solar for incidentals (computer, weather transceiver, etc) Like much of the East I have no wind to utilize. I have no problem researching better ways to create power or implementing cost effective ones. I do have a problem making people pay through taxes or especially through electric rates for feel-good energy sources that don’t add up. I know people with $800 monthly bills in the winter, and I don’t want them suffering for no reason.


9 posted on 11/05/2011 2:13:17 PM PDT by palmer (Before reading this post, please send me $2.50)
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To: bigbob

Our utility here, Georgia Power, has numerous hydro dams across the state.

Lake Oconee was built basically as a storage battery.

Water flows through turbines from Lake Oconee into Lake Sinclair during the day to help supply the base load demand.

At night, when excess power is available, water is pumped upstream from Lake Sinclair back into Lake Oconee, and that water power is used again the next day.

I guess that fits your “time shift” statement.


10 posted on 11/05/2011 2:16:56 PM PDT by Repeal The 17th
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To: bigbob

The problem is the huge government investment, using money taken from us (essentially) at the point of a gun.


11 posted on 11/05/2011 2:25:57 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Overproduction, one of the top five worries of the American Farmer each and every year..)
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To: neverdem
Wind power is a meaningless liberal wet dream.

What is needed is reliable, economical, power on-demand. Nuclear can do this if this country would just get its head out of its collective butt.

12 posted on 11/05/2011 2:29:10 PM PDT by DakotaGator (Weep for the lost Republic! And keep your powder dry!!)
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To: gorush

“Non dispatchable power” — solution: require consumers to install energy storage systems at their own expense without any compensation. What an effing stupid idea.

And wait until the hot water tempering valve fails and somebody gets a third-degree burn from the 190 degree water. Let the lawsuits begin!


13 posted on 11/05/2011 2:30:16 PM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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If FR Is Your Garden Of Sanity, Please Feed It


Click The Pic

14 posted on 11/05/2011 2:32:20 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are here! What will you do?)
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To: neverdem; DTogo

Ping.

Wind farm illness: Waubra Disease
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYnNQoTcsHY

Protect yourself.

Acoustic Vibration Disease Hat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El2vVl5Figk

66 percent of Tea Party members would agree with having wind turbines near their homes (Saint Consulting Group, poll of 1,000 in US, June, 2011). 73 percent of men agreed but far fewer women.

Environmentalists are against Wind power
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pODvhqSfyeM

Wind turbine syndrome news report
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRCekFYWsPo

Wind Nimby Spanking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLHOydx2RTA

Wind Nimby Rant
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KurAbrMHu2k

John Stossel Wind Power and NIMBY
[Environmentalists against wind turbines.]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo2rMj8KVtQ


15 posted on 11/05/2011 2:36:26 PM PDT by familyop ("Wanna cigarette? You're never too young to start." --Deacon, "Waterworld")
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To: palmer
I’ve got solar for incidentals (computer, weather transceiver, etc) Like much of the East I have no wind to utilize.

I'm all for people using solar panels to produce their own electricity. What a blessing that would be during an extended power outage. But solar and wind make no sense for centralized generation.

16 posted on 11/05/2011 2:36:40 PM PDT by BfloGuy (Even the opponents of Socialism are dominated by socialist ideas.)
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To: neverdem

Makes no sense because most modern turbines can “feather” their blades so they are at a 90 degree angle to the wind and they stop turning. Did the writer do any research at all?

They can also disconnect the turbines from the grid and lock the blades in place.

As for batteries. There aren’t enough in the world. The large turbines can produce 1.5 to 5 million megawatts an hour each at peak production.


17 posted on 11/05/2011 2:45:25 PM PDT by CCGuy (USAF (Ret.))
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To: bigbob
"I don’t know why otherwise intelligent FReepers exhibit Algore-like scientific tendencies whenever an article favorable to wind power is posted."

Only communists want to control all of the property that they can see. Only socialists receive free PV solar equipment and are too lazy to learn or install it themselves. See surveyed Tea Partier opinion on turbines near their properties in comment #15.

Starve the bipartisan b. Avoid buying anything that you don't need. Become more energy-independent and generally self-sufficient (food, entertainment, etc.). Learn to manufacture something useful as a hobby for now.


18 posted on 11/05/2011 2:46:35 PM PDT by familyop ("Wanna cigarette? You're never too young to start." --Deacon, "Waterworld")
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To: DakotaGator

Just think how many nuke plants they could have built if they really wanted to jump start the economy with the $750 Billion in stimulus. They could have easily put up 100 plants, and displaced coal in the long term. All of the construction jobs, factories humming. No, we will spend it on the unions make work jobs and getting reelected.


19 posted on 11/05/2011 2:50:46 PM PDT by runninglips (Republicans = 99 lb weaklings of politics. ProgressiveRepublicansInConservativeCostume)
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To: bigbob
While there are subsidies today, wind has been moving rapidly toward self-sufficiency and that is the ultimate goal of the industry

You are misinformed about wind power. The wind power industry is addicted to subsidies and mandates. The ultimate goal of the industry is to quietly demand perpetual subsidies while claiming publicly that it wants to end subsidies. Your idea of exporting wind from Wyoming to Califronia is preposterous. The cost of the transmission capacity is staggering.

Please admist that the economics of wind power are backwards. The utility industry is heavily capital intensive. The fuel cost is a minor part of the equation. Peak power demands largely determine the capital needs. Wind power fails miserably in almost all locations because it provides little base-load and peak power.

The Texas experience is all that you need to know about the economics of wind power. Texas has more installed wind power than any other state, about 10,000MW at a cost of about $10B. Yet, during peak demand in the summer months, the wind turbines barely deliver. In peak times this summer, the wind turbines only delivered 880MW, about 1.3 percent of power needs. For an investment of $10B, Texas only receives peak power of less than one conventional plant.
20 posted on 11/05/2011 2:52:06 PM PDT by businessprofessor
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To: CCGuy
"Makes no sense because most modern turbines can “feather” their blades so they are at a 90 degree angle to the wind and they stop turning. Did the writer do any research at all?"

True. I like the kind of turbine (10-foot rotor, honest 700 watts in a good wind) that furls in higher winds and even magnetically slows as less current is required from the battery (see Midnite Classic MPPT controller and Clipper for turbines). Building it requires a little steelwork and mechanical experience/study, though, neither of which are enjoyed by government-dependent commie-NIMBYs. (17-footer, honest 3kw in a good wind). ...2-3 times the power with the Classic controller and Clipper.


21 posted on 11/05/2011 2:59:02 PM PDT by familyop ("Wanna cigarette? You're never too young to start." --Deacon, "Waterworld")
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To: CCGuy; DTogo

Engineer’s comments on the Classic MPPT controller for wind turbines with the Otherpower 10-footer (username: halfcrazy, first MPPT controller for both wind turbines and PV arrays).

http://fieldlines.com/board/index.php?topic=138295.0

The Classic has been further engineered since then and is available. [I receive no pecuniary benefits from any vendor in the wind industry. ...only the money that I save for myself in a very windy and sunny place with extreme cold weather. I do all installation work for myself and receive no subsidies. ...not even wealthy enough to qualify for any subsidies and not installing expensive, wasteful, commercial versions of components in order to qualify.]


22 posted on 11/05/2011 3:12:41 PM PDT by familyop ("Wanna cigarette? You're never too young to start." --Deacon, "Waterworld")
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To: CCGuy; DTogo

Oops. That one’s a little old. Here’s some newer info.

http://midnitesolar.com/smf_forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=133.0

http://www.midnitewind.com/


23 posted on 11/05/2011 3:24:47 PM PDT by familyop ("Wanna cigarette? You're never too young to start." --Deacon, "Waterworld")
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To: Repeal The 17th

They were doing pump back in Oklahoma 40 years ago, made for great fishing when they finally let us in.


24 posted on 11/05/2011 3:54:10 PM PDT by itsahoot (There was a bloodless coup in 08, and no one seemed to notice. God help us.)
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To: jmax

You’re with the same bunch who solved the problem of landing on the sun....by going at night.....right?


25 posted on 11/05/2011 4:01:38 PM PDT by stboz
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To: familyop

Save for later. Thanks for the links.


26 posted on 11/05/2011 4:23:28 PM PDT by texas booster (Join FreeRepublic's Folding@Home team (Team # 36120) Cure Alzheimer's!)
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To: bigbob

I have to feel the same way. I cant figure out what is wrong with advocating drilling on our own land, making use of oil sands in North Dakota, Alaska, all of the coasts AND investments in wind, solar, geothermal energy, electric cars and hydrogen fuel cells. I never did get why it had to be either or. And discoruaging people from driving SUVs or trucks if they dont really need them for practical purposes or to do theur jobs effectively.

Simply proclaiming “we need oil” and not addressing the oil need in the aforementioned ways just isnt productive and puts us in continually bad positions, at home and abroad. That is why we have to fight with China, where probably at least tens of millions of people have been getting cars for the first time, over oil, we still have to rely on the folks of the Arabian penninsula for oil (even if we do utilize all our own oil)-and so they can still spread terror cells and hate madrassas from West Africa to the UK to East Asia and ignoring anyone who objects, we will have to make compromises with Mexico allowing them to send more ilelgals, and we have to stress over other nations trying to take Canadian oil. Frankyl I can figure out what about this attitude could be anything remotely resembling patriotic.


27 posted on 11/05/2011 4:26:59 PM PDT by emax
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To: runninglips

Concur!


28 posted on 11/05/2011 8:50:13 PM PDT by DakotaGator (Weep for the lost Republic! And keep your powder dry!!)
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To: texas booster
"Save for later. Thanks for the links."

You're welcome. Hopefully, anyone considering installing alternative energy equipment of any kind will do a weather study of their own place before buying components and materials. It's usually windy most of the winter here (over 9,000 ft. elev., no trees for miles, over 300 sun days per year). That's the downside: weather that most people would avoid (one night down to -15 F so far).


29 posted on 11/05/2011 8:52:22 PM PDT by familyop ("Wanna cigarette? You're never too young to start." --Deacon, "Waterworld")
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To: neverdem
We have a number of these being built in our area. They are 50 and 100 KW generators by CM energy and totally quiet.


30 posted on 11/06/2011 5:55:22 AM PST by Arrowhead1952 (Dear God, thanks for the rain, but please let it rain more in Texas. Amen.)
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