Posted on 11/29/2011 10:58:46 PM PST by Kevmo
Defkalion: “We have Rossi’s formula”
Av: Mats Lewan
Publicerad igår, 10:13 4 kommentarer
Tomorrow on Wednesday the Greek company Defkalion will present products similar to Andrea Rossi’s 'E-cat', claiming that the technology is developed in-house. But Defkalion earlier told Ny Teknik that it has 'the formula of Rossi' .
“Let’s say I have the formula of Rossi, but I’m not saying it officially. My scientists found a way to make it. They need three months.”
That is what Alexandros Xanthoulis, representative of Defkalion Green Technology’s owners, told Ny Teknik in a telephone conversation on August 5, 2011 .
“I know what he’s got in the reactor, I know everything. It was a spectroscopy made by the University of Siena. (...) They tried his reactor without him understanding what they did,” he continued .
Xanthoulis contacted Ny Teknik the day after Rossi unilaterally terminated his agreement with Defkalion. Among other things, the agreement gave Defkalion exclusive rights in Greece and the Balkans for production and distribution of the “E-cat” – Rossi’s invention that might produce heat through a hitherto unknown form of nuclear reaction .
At a press conference in June 2011 Defkalion presented sketches on a range of products – “Hyperion” – built around Rossi’s technology, with control and regulation systems, remote monitoring, heat exchangers and other peripherals developed by Defkalion .
When Rossi terminated the agreement in August, he stressed that no knowledge of the core technology had been transferred to Defkalion. The Hyperion products thus seemed to have no future .
During the telephone conversation with Ny Teknik, Xanthoulis expressed considerable uncertainty about Rossi’s intentions. However, he made clear that he was not going to use the knowledge of Rossi’s reactor and that he wanted "fair play" .
He also explained that his researchers had found ways to improve the technology. According to Xanthoulis, Rossi could not run the reaction more than 24 hours, and when Defkalion required a 48 hour test it supposedly led to a conflict with Rossi .
“It’s very simple but they didn’t think about it. (...) We solved the problem. Because the problem is that he cannot spread the reaction all over the pipe, and all the heating is concentrated in the middle”, Xanthoulis told Ny Teknik .
A few days after the phone conversation, Defkalion announced that it continued the project, despite the breach of contract. Defkalion has also continued to offer licenses for the production of Hyperion products to EUR 40.5 million per factory .
Tomorrow on Wednesday November 30th, Defkalion has planned a presentation of its products, and has announced that the the technology will be certified and tested by an independent party .
In contrast to Xanthoulis’ information about Defkalion’s possessing ' the formula of Rossi', the company now states that its technology is developed in-house and that it is not based on Rossi’s technology .
Among other things, Defkalion posted in a forum on its website: “E-cats (or energy catalyzers) are E-cats and Hyperions are Hyperions. We can assure you that they are not the same ‘thing’ with just different names.”
On Ny Teknik's request we received the following comment to the conversation in August:
"So much has changed since August, many minor events and issues have taken place making it hard to tie the story together with a few words of Alex back then. Defkalion is working on exothermic reactions between Nickel and Hydrogen. Our products have completely different technologies (encompassing electronics, engineering, materials) than from Rossi, even [if] we have understood where Rossi has made his mistakes."
Ny Teknik also asked for a comment from Rossi who declined, stating that he would never have anything to do with Defkalion again, and that what the company said or did could only be a matter for his lawyers, in the case that would be necessary .
Since the breach of contract in August, Rossi has continued to work on his technology and has made a number of semi-public demonstrations to some criticism of Defkalion which stated that Rossi used some technology developed by the Greek company .
On October 28 a test of a heating plant with a nominal thermal power of one megawatt, consisting of about one hundred E-cat modules, was performed. The test was made by an anonymous customer, according to Rossi a military organization, which officially approved the plant and then bought it .
Thereafter, the same customer has, still according to Rossi, placed an order for a further twelve similar plants which now supposedly are under construction. And yesterday Rossi announced that a heat plant had been sold to a customer who will let "a qualified public" visit it .
Rossi has said he is now taking pre-orders for a consumer version of the E-cat at 10 kilowatts of thermal power, stating that when he reaches 10,000 pre-orders, the interested parties will be offered to accept or decline to purchase the product for 400 Euros per kilowatt nominal thermal output, which would set the prize for a model of 10 kilowatts to 4,000 Euros .
Many have called for an independent test of the E-cat, but Rossi has rejected this and said that he now only has time for customers. According to Rossi, another reason is avoiding that further details of the invention reach his competitors, as it is not yet patented .
In addition to Defkalion, at least a dozen researchers worldwide are actively working with phenomena related to the concept of cold fusion or Low Energy Nuclear Reactions, LENR. However, no one has so far come close to the output power levels Rossi seems to have reached .
Most notable is perhaps Rossi’s compatriot Prof. Francesco Piantelli who previously conducted research with Rossi’s scientific adviser Prof. Sergio Focardi. Among other researchers often mentioned are Americans Michael McKubre, George Miley, Peter Hagelstein, Brian Ahern and Italian Francesco Celani who attended Rossi’s first public trial in January 2011 .
According to reliable sources to Ny Teknik, there are stakeholders who have tried to make commercial agreements with Rossi, and who are now actively seeking opportunities to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in this area .
The concept of cold fusion has generally been regarded as impossibility by the scientific community since the debate following a press conference on 23 March 1989 when researchers Fleischmann and Pons presented their results .
Despite this the phenomenon has since then been confirmed in hundreds of published scientific papers .
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READ MORE: Our complete coverage on Rossi's E-cat can be found here .
FAKTA Excerpt of Ny Teknik’s conversation with Alexandros Xanthoulis August 5
"Let’s say I have the formula of Rossi, but I’m not saying it officially. My scientists found a way to make it. They need three months, but I’m not going to play game behind Rossi. I’m not a cheater. We started together and if he has to be paid, he will. But his problem is scientifically solved by us .
Because we believe that his reactor cannot operate more than 24 hours .
When we requested 48 it was a problem. But my scientists found out the problems. I cannot reveal it right now. But the problem can be fixed by us. It’s very simple but they didn’t think about it. The same way more than a year ago when Rossi had never thought that his invention could create electricity. He had never thought about it until we told him."
(...)
"First of all, the first problem was with 48 hours, that’s for sure. And he had a huge fight with one of my scientists, Mr Hadjichristos, you’ve heard of him most probably, Yiannis, because we were insisting on 48 hours. But we know the problem; we didn’t tell him of course, we know the problem .
I know what he’s got in the reactor, I know everything. It was a spectroscopy (Greek: ‘fasmatoscopy’) made by the university of Siena. It was an equipment made by the University of Siena. It understands everything that’s inside the reactor. So we know the components."
Ny Teknik: Who did that?
"The University of Siena .
They tried his reactor without him understanding what they did. They checked it and we know what’s in the reactor .
So it’s a matter of two or three months that my scientists can reproduce that, but I’m not going to try it. I’m playing a fair game .
We solved the problem. The problems he’s got, we solved them. Because the problem is that he cannot spread the reaction all over the pipe, and all the heating is concentrated in the middle. So we found the solution."
(This quote is slightly adjusted for clarity through advice from Defkalion) .
FAKTA The E-cat
The 'energy catalyzer' is loaded with nickel powder and a number of secret catalysts and is pressurized with hydrogen gas. Excess heat is possibly produced via an unknown nuclear reaction, involving nickel and hydrogen .
Several semipublic tests have been made to demonstrate the release of net energy but no independent tests have yet been done .
On October 28, 2011, a heat plant composed by 107 Ecat modules was tested by an anonymous customer. In a report the customer claimed a released net power of 479 kW in self sustained mode .
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This will be my standard post to moonboy that says you’re not worth trying to have reasonable discussion, also says “buzz off” & doesn’t leave crickets. But if it offends you to the point that you get it removed like my prior innocuous citation then I’ll have to come up with some other ‘ignore button’ post.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/2800058/posts?page=55#55
To: Moonman62
This means I have nothing more to say to you about LENR. Bye.
55 posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:41:07 PM by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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Until someone proves to me otherwise, I will operate on the assumption that you are a member of the mob; after all, there was some discussion on that right here on FR.
If Rossi’s Ecat turns out a scam, one tragedy is that many people will declare themselves vindicated, despite months of poor logic and lousy arguments that will turn out to have been unrelated to the truth when it comes out.
***Yup. Worth repeating & saving for later.
2011/11/25
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-
For example, one of the charges they sent him to jail for was defrauding the stockholders. He himself was the only stockholder, so this was Kafkaesque. Someone in the Italian justice system had it in for him. — Jed Rothwell
When Rossi is arrested -- again -- the reputation of cold fusion is going to be worse than it already is.
Well taking things with a grain of salt due to Europe’s byzantine regulatory system and lack of legal protections that we have here, I’ll admit Rossi’s past is checkered at least on it’s face.
This is why I’ve never jumped on board and am content to sit back and watch. There are several I’ve read outside of Rossi’s circle that says LENR tech in general might be possible, so I’m hoping that even if Rossi’s is not someone else will develop the ball.
This will be my standard post to moonboy that says you’re not worth trying to have reasonable discussion, also says “buzz off” & doesn’t leave crickets. But if it offends you to the point that you get it removed like my prior innocuous citation then I’ll have to come up with some other ‘ignore button’ post.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/2800058/posts?page=55#55
To: Moonman62
This means I have nothing more to say to you about LENR. Bye.
55 posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:41:07 PM by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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This is why I’m skeptical of even the skeptics. You can make anyone look like a crook with the bureaucracies some of these countries have, European ones in particular. If LENR is feasible it will bear itself out, if not with Rossi then someone else.
***Yup. Worth repeating & saving for later.
Don't tell me you think the ecat may turn out to be a scam. You even use a Rossi quote for your tag line.
This will be my standard post to moonboy that says you’re not worth trying to have reasonable discussion, also says “buzz off” & doesn’t leave crickets. But if it offends you to the point that you get it removed like my prior innocuous citation then I’ll have to come up with some other ‘ignore button’ post.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/2800058/posts?page=55#55
To: Moonman62
This means I have nothing more to say to you about LENR. Bye.
55 posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:41:07 PM by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies | Report Abuse]
For example, one of the charges they sent him to jail for was defrauding the stockholders. He himself was the only stockholder, so this was Kafkaesque. Someone in the Italian justice system had it in for him. — Jed RothwellI quote Jed Rothwell (LINK):
> Does anyone have a link for that?So, you can either believe an unsubstantiated rumor being spread by some guy who admits he doesn't really know, or you can believe over a decade worth of newspaper stories that include numerous charges, convictions and jail sentences ( LINK).
>
No, sorry, I do not. That is what I have heard in conversations with various people. It could be an exaggeration.- Jed
If Rossi’s Ecat turns out a scam, one tragedy is that many people will declare themselves vindicated, despite months of poor logic and lousy arguments that will turn out to have been unrelated to the truth when it comes out.You mean like your baseless rumormongering about Rossi's innocence?
I meant to include you in the original post, but forgot to do so.
Yes, that ridiculous assertion came from muawiyah. You may assume whatever you like; however, there is no evidence linking me in any way to the Mob.
As for the assertion that Rossi is using shell companies for his likely-to-be-scam commercial activities, there is ample evidence which is publicly available on State websites. If you choose to ignore this evidence, you should expect the rest of us to call you out on your intellectual dishonesty.
I do not acknowledge the reality of commercially available LENR, only the unproven possibility.
Even commercial installations are subject to standards based equipment design and universally have fire and hazard insurance. When there is damage due to equipment failure, there is liability. For failures of unapproved, nonstandard equipment, the liability falls first on the owner, who will rapidly transfer it to the manufacturer.
Homeowner’s insurance companies don’t assume risk, they manage it. Without a metric for the risk involved, they won’t touch it. There’s just no way to price it.
Again, the Defkalion product brochure pays lip service to agency approvals. Having ushered a few intrinsically safe designs through Factory Mutual approval and even more through UL, I still think certifying a nuclear powered water boiler will be quite a bit more than a slam dunk. Suspending, still for the moment, the disbelief that the device actually works.
He went to the demo and overlooked the fact this sucker was built out of what appears to be something little changed from a brand new "towable" 1Mwh line battery that (thanks to new tech) can last 5.5 hours ~ and he distracts us by claiming Rossi should have run it 8 hours to prove there was no "chemical reaction".
Bwahahahahahahaha!!!!!
I hope you don't think the NASA guy understood what he was looking at.
Some of our most ardent "it's a scam" folks ALSO laugh at the idea this could just be a large battery (of a type they clearly do not understand). They want us to measure the possible flow of hot water, or secret heating wires, or hot plates, or the effect of a power generator in the vicinity and just pass right past the fact this"battery" could, in fact, be a "battery"!
later on you've abandoned "Ampenergo" as meaningful ~ now that we see that the "partners" are also the owners of the LTI they also own.
The "Leonardo Corporation" does not appear to be "LTI" (the name change is significant).
This leaves us with the "It's a Scam" side arguing that Rossi has a shell corporation called Leonardo Corporation, yet he is doing business with another shell corporation called Ampenergo owned by the exact same people as those who own LTI, a company with a $94 million contract with DOE.
On the "We don't know if you have proof that it's a Scam" side we see that Rossi has been around a good long while and the oldest business dealing in the US we find him involved in is back in 1994 ~ earlier he was in Italy ~ to wit, the Petroldragon situation. When he shows up to do business in the US it's as a contractor with LTI then working with Parsons. We do not get a clear link between Rossi and LTI in 1994 other than the references to project events inside the Corps of Engineeers report.
In that same report individuals currently identified as owners of LTI are working on the Parsons project ~ and it seems they might even be DOE employees at the time.
Your side's chief researcher should get us the corporation documents for LTI for 1992, 93, 94 and 95.
You are truly a mental case! Since when did I “abandon ‘Ampenergo’ as meaningful?” Ampenergo shares an office with Rossi’s company. It is yet another one of his scam companies. You must be confusing me with another poster.
Leonardo Corporation is indeed not LTI, but it’s not a “name change,” as you put it—it was a new corporation formed as Leonardo Corporation by Rossi, and is located in a fifth floor apartment in Miami.
Why don’t you go ahead and give us the full name and State of incorporation for the entity you call, “LTI,” and we’ll take a look.
I must apologize to dinodino. I didn’t think anyone would take it seriously but one.
I was joking when I said he was part of the mob. He’s not; it was a joke actually directed at someone else.
It’s ok, Lx. Kevmo and muawiyah have a tenuous grasp on reality—if you had called me a grey alien, they would have believed it.
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