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Last Neanderthals near the Arctic Circle?
Past Horizons ^ | Tuesday, December 27, 2011 | CNRS press release

Posted on 12/29/2011 10:14:08 PM PST by SunkenCiv

Dating of butchery marks crucial

A multi-disciplinary team of French CNRS researchers, working with Norwegian and Russian scientists, studied the Byzovaya site in the Polar Urals in northern Russia. Using carbon 14 dating and an optical simulation technique, the team was able to put an accurate date on sediments and on mammoth and reindeer bones abandoned on the site. The bones bore traces of butchering by Mousterian hunters.

The results intrigue scientists in more ways than one. They show that Mousterian culture may have lasted longer than scientists had originally thought. What's more, no Mousterian presence had ever been identified so close to the Arctic Circle. All other traces are at least 1000 km further south. Lastly, the Byzovaya site, in Eurasia, seems only to have been occupied once, approximately 28,500 years ago, which is over 8,000 years after Neanderthals were thought to have disappeared.

So this discovery raises many questions, not least about how Mousterian society was organised. Did Neanderthal Man live longer than thought? Or could these last bearers of Mousterian culture in fact have been Homo sapiens? If so, the theories explaining that Neanderthals died out because their culture was archaic would be put into question. The studies open up new perspectives on this turning point in human history.

(Excerpt) Read more at pasthorizonspr.com ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: godsgravesglyphs; mousterian; neandertal; neandertals; neanderthal; neanderthals; russia; siberia

CNRS is 'Centre national de la recherche scientifique'.
Byzovaya site. © Photo Ludovic Slimak

Byzovaya site. © Photo Ludovic Slimak

1 posted on 12/29/2011 10:14:13 PM PST by SunkenCiv
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Map showing the location of the Byzovaya site, in the northern Urals. Image: Science/AAAS

Map showing the location of the Byzovaya site, in the northern Urals. Image: Science/AAAS

2 posted on 12/29/2011 10:16:01 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Merry Christmas, Happy New Year! May 2013 be even Happier!)
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? hangs over the Mousterians. Oh, sorry.

Mousterian tool from Byzovaya. © Photo Ludovic Slimak

Mousterian tool from Byzovaya. © Photo Ludovic Slimak

3 posted on 12/29/2011 10:16:41 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Merry Christmas, Happy New Year! May 2013 be even Happier!)
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Ludovic Slimak and Pavel Pavlov examining a mammoth tusk in Byzovaya. © Photo Hugues Plisson

Ludovic Slimak and Pavel Pavlov examining a mammoth tusk in Byzovaya. © Photo Hugues Plisson

4 posted on 12/29/2011 10:16:53 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Merry Christmas, Happy New Year! May 2013 be even Happier!)
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks Renfield. The last refuge of Neandertal is in the human genome.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


5 posted on 12/29/2011 10:17:51 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Merry Christmas, Happy New Year! May 2013 be even Happier!)
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To: SunkenCiv
The last refuge of Neandertal is in the human genome.

The last refuge of Neandertal is FR religion threads. Oh...wait...they are bloodthirsty troglodytes...my bad.

6 posted on 12/29/2011 10:33:15 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: SunkenCiv
My brother-in-law never said anything about relatives up there.

/johnny

7 posted on 12/29/2011 10:47:42 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: SunkenCiv
Mousterian culture? That sounds like something from a Victor Herbert musical.

The Mousterian King was depicted by Tchaikovsky in the Nutcracker.

8 posted on 12/29/2011 10:52:06 PM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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To: SunkenCiv

bookmark


9 posted on 12/29/2011 10:56:55 PM PST by GOP Poet (Time for Bambi and his commie crew to go.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Just a passing thought, but I wonder if they were refugees? Last survivors of the losing side of some ancient, nonviolent conquest/displacement? Forced to live in a marginal environment due to an influx of more aggressive, more adaptable homo sapiens?


10 posted on 12/29/2011 11:12:05 PM PST by Little Pig (Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici.)
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To: SunkenCiv
First came the Meanderthals, they wandered around a lot.

The came the Oleanderthals, bunch of flower pickers.

Finally the Kneeanderthals, couldn't run away from predators because their knees were bad from all that bending down to pick flowers and walking around without Orthotic Insoles in their sandals.

11 posted on 12/29/2011 11:21:55 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Little Pig; SunkenCiv
Last survivors of the losing side of some ancient, nonviolent conquest/displacement?

The history of mankind is brutal, merciless slaughter. Run to the hills. Run for your life.

12 posted on 12/29/2011 11:28:09 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: Little Pig; SunkenCiv; bigheadfred; JRandomFreeper

If I understand correctly, there wasn’t much difference in lifestyle between Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens until about twenty thousand years ago. Then suddenly there was an explosion of advancements in tools, weapons, clothing and especially art and Homo Sapiens vaulted ahead.

It’s still a mystery what got switched on in our heads but I guess the alien monolith from 2001 zapping our ancestors and turbocharging their brains is as good as any.


13 posted on 12/29/2011 11:28:44 PM PST by sinanju
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To: bigheadfred
The history of mankind is brutal, merciless slaughter. Run to the hills. Run for your life.

I LOLed at that. It's spot on true.

We be bad... We mostly own carnivores for pets... imagine a species that uses meat eaters for pets.

I'm ok with it... and so are the catz...

/johnny

14 posted on 12/29/2011 11:34:24 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: sinanju
Last I heard... the French cave neandertals were as advanced as sapiens on tool making 30K years ago. They did have thrusting spears and we had throwing spears... and there may have been interaction..

But I personally think they couldn't handle the weather change. And my former BIL is just a hold-over.

/johnny

15 posted on 12/29/2011 11:39:06 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper
Ancient Mouseterian hunter gatherers
16 posted on 12/30/2011 12:02:09 AM PST by 47samurai (The last real conservative)
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To: SunkenCiv

I find it interesting that the Neanderthals died out right about the time that the interglacial warming period began. I don’t make anything of that but the timing is interesting. Just their bad luck?


17 posted on 12/30/2011 12:14:43 AM PST by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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The Neandertal Enigma
by James Shreeve

in local libraries
"Frayer's own reading of the record reveals a number of overlooked traits that clearly and specifically link the Neandertals to the Cro-Magnons. One such trait is the shape of the opening of the nerve canal in the lower jaw, a spot where dentists often give a pain-blocking injection. In many Neandertal, the upper portion of the opening is covered by a broad bony ridge, a curious feature also carried by a significant number of Cro-Magnons. But none of the alleged 'ancestors of us all' fossils from Africa have it, and it is extremely rare in modern people outside Europe." [pp 126-127]

18 posted on 12/30/2011 12:21:43 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Merry Christmas, Happy New Year! May 2013 be even Happier!)
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To: Little Pig; bigheadfred; sinanju; JRandomFreeper; TigersEye

whoops, forgot to ping.


19 posted on 12/30/2011 12:34:40 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Merry Christmas, Happy New Year! May 2013 be even Happier!)
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To: bigheadfred; JRandomFreeper; afraidfortherepublic; count-your-change; 47samurai

LOL!


20 posted on 12/30/2011 12:35:42 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Merry Christmas, Happy New Year! May 2013 be even Happier!)
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To: JRandomFreeper
I personally think they couldn't handle the weather change.

Finding the most recent Neanderthal traces so far north would seem to back that up. It's possible that Neanderthals followed the glaciers north as they receded.

21 posted on 12/30/2011 1:11:39 AM PST by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: count-your-change

Beeanderthals, first to discover honey
Weeanderthals, Ancestors of Santa`s elves at the North Pole
Gleeanderthals. a happy bunch
Treeanderthals, first to come down and walk
Me-anderthals, Obummer`s ancestors
Pleaanderthals, ancestors of all lawyers
Cleananderthals, first to discover soap
Feeanderthals, discovered banking
Rearenderthals, discovered the neck brace
Seeranderthals, first to discover big round glass balls
Steeranderthals, first to domesticate cattle
Weirdanderthals, a genomic aberration that exists today in
Harvard


22 posted on 12/30/2011 3:02:32 AM PST by bunkerhill7 (Neanderthals at the North Pole? Who knew?)
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To: Straight Vermonter
They show that Mousterian culture may have lasted longer than scientists had originally thought.

...alive and thriving throughout the middle east

Neanderthals all.

23 posted on 12/30/2011 3:13:55 AM PST by spokeshave (Ron Paul finally lit a match after dousing himself with gasoline)
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To: bunkerhill7

Very good! You’re a scholar of no mean sort. Cheers!


24 posted on 12/30/2011 3:40:30 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: sinanju

Could it have been extraterrestrials?

Photobucket

25 posted on 12/30/2011 3:45:12 AM PST by airborne (Paratroopers! Good to the last drop!)
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To: airborne
(let's try this again)

Photobucket

26 posted on 12/30/2011 3:49:00 AM PST by airborne (Paratroopers! Good to the last drop!)
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To: bunkerhill7

Don’t forget “FREEPERANDERTHALS”, the first critics of cave tribal government!


27 posted on 12/30/2011 4:46:49 AM PST by mdmathis6 (Christ came not to make mankind into God but to put God into men!)
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To: bigheadfred
Run to the hills. Run for your life

Iron Maiden.

28 posted on 12/30/2011 5:00:39 AM PST by humblegunner (The kinder, gentler version...)
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To: TigersEye

I find it interesting that the Neanderthals died out right about the time that the interglacial warming period began. I don’t make anything of that but the timing is interesting. Just their bad luck?

No. The were leaving anyway. The last straw was the melting of their ice cities. So they got into their ice ships and headed for a colder planet ...


29 posted on 12/30/2011 5:12:42 AM PST by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
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To: SunkenCiv

A computer search of Mousterian indicates this is also characteristic of early MOdern Man.


30 posted on 12/30/2011 6:09:11 AM PST by ZULU (LIBERATE HAGIA SOPHIA!!!!!)
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To: JRandomFreeper; weighted Companion Cube

As you say ‘cube...


31 posted on 12/30/2011 6:47:03 AM PST by null and void (Day 1074 of America's ObamaVacation from reality [Heroes aren't made, Frank, they're cornered...])
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To: JRandomFreeper

As far as I know, the Neanderthals never developed anything that could be called “art.” And by the same token, no indications of any religion.

But the fact that they were unable to conceive of projectile weapons (throwing spears, arrows, darts, slings, boomerangs, etc.) is highly indicative of a fundamental difference in their brains.


32 posted on 12/30/2011 6:49:44 AM PST by sinanju
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To: bunkerhill7
Me-anderthals, Obummer`s ancestors

Yes, but it did take considerable inbreeding to produce the Me-me-me-anderthal in the White House.

33 posted on 12/30/2011 6:51:53 AM PST by null and void (Day 1074 of America's ObamaVacation from reality [Heroes aren't made, Frank, they're cornered...])
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To: bunkerhill7
Might I add Fleanderthals, ancestors of OWS protesters...


34 posted on 12/30/2011 7:03:17 AM PST by null and void (Day 1074 of America's ObamaVacation from reality [Heroes aren't made, Frank, they're cornered...])
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