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New study shows architecture, arts degrees yield highest unemployment
Washington Post ^ | 01/04/2012 | By Peter Whoriskey

Posted on 01/04/2012 1:23:06 PM PST by SeekAndFind

College kids may choose to spend their campus days studying the glories of Plato, Shakespeare and Le Corbusier.

But, as a new study points out, there may be a steep price to pay.

Recent college graduates with bachelor’s degrees in the arts, humanities and architecture experienced significantly higher rates of joblessness, according to a study being released Wednesday by Georgetown University’s Center on Education and the Workforce.

Among recent college graduates, those with the highest rates of unemployment had undergraduate degrees in architecture (13.9 percent), the arts (11.1 percent) and the humanities (9.4 percent), according to the study.

The recent college graduates with the lowest rates of unemployment had degrees in health (5.4 percent), education (5.4 percent), and agriculture and natural resources (7 percent.) Those with business and engineering degrees also fared relatively well.

“People keep telling kids to study what they love — but some loves are worth more than others,” said Anthony P. Carnevale, one of the study’s authors. “When people talk about college, there are all these high-minded ideas about it making people better citizens and participating fully in the life of their times. All that’s true, but go talk to the unemployed about that.”

The analysis, which was based on 2009 and 2010 data from the Census Bureau’s American Community Survey, comes amid an increasing debate over the value of college education as an economic investment. Over the past two decades, the average amount of debt a student takes on has roughly doubled in real terms, leading to greater scrutiny of the financial returns of college.

Carnevale and his team have also quantified the value of various majors in terms of wages. Over a lifetime, the earnings of workers who have majored in engineering, computer science or business were as much as 50 percent higher

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Arts/Photography; Business/Economy; Education; Society
KEYWORDS: arts; college; unemployment

1 posted on 01/04/2012 1:23:13 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind
An analysis of unemployment based on census figures found that health and education majors faced the best job prospects. Architecture majors fared worst

2 posted on 01/04/2012 1:25:21 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

The architecture ranking surprises me a bit, was it a bad choice, say, ten years ago?


3 posted on 01/04/2012 1:28:14 PM PST by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: SeekAndFind

“...college graduates with bachelor’s degrees in the arts, humanities and architecture experienced significantly higher rates of joblessness...”

No way!


4 posted on 01/04/2012 1:28:18 PM PST by SuzyQue
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To: fishtank

Autocad changed everything.

Everyone wants to be an architect. But the truth is, there is not much demand for them. They aren’t really very useful. A structural engineer or an autocad tech can do the job of an architect in most cases.

Most buildings nowdays are built from pre-approved plans. Hardly anyone hires an architect to build a building anymore.


5 posted on 01/04/2012 1:32:24 PM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: SeekAndFind

Such meaningful degrees in “Diversity”, “Inclusiveness”, “Cultural Relativism”, etc. are all best-suited for joining the SEIU in a Government meaningless job.....


6 posted on 01/04/2012 1:32:42 PM PST by traditional1 (Free speech for me.....not for thee)
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To: fishtank

Architects had trouble finding jobs when I got out of school in the early 80’s.

Lots of kids want to do the artsy-fartsy thing.

Not so many people want to pay someone to do the artsy-fartsy thing.


7 posted on 01/04/2012 1:35:09 PM PST by NVDave
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To: mamelukesabre

That’s intersting, I wasn’t aware. But explains why an architect friend I know is struggling.


8 posted on 01/04/2012 1:38:24 PM PST by bigbob
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To: mamelukesabre

AutoCAD certainly has changed a LOT of stuff... but I don’t think the demand for architects has ever lived up to the imagined prospects of kids going into architecture programs.

AutoCAD certainly has diminished the demand for draftsmen, tho. I took four years of drafting in high school and what I see in AutoCAD (and similar CAD programs) completely changes the number of people necessary to churn out engineering drawings at a manufacturing company.


9 posted on 01/04/2012 1:40:24 PM PST by NVDave
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To: SeekAndFind

So Psychology majors have a lower unemployment than business, law, engineering, life sciences, and computer sciences. Interesting because that’s the degree that gets such a bad rap here at FR.

Psychologists might get a boom of work in November if we beat Obama. Remember when Kerry lost the election in 2004, stats showed an increase in people seeking mental health...


10 posted on 01/04/2012 1:40:59 PM PST by floridarunner01
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To: floridarunner01
The most important part of the article is here:

Carnevale and his team have also quantified the value of various majors in terms of wages. Over a lifetime, the earnings of workers who have majored in engineering, computer science or business were as much as 50 percent higher

Sure, a lot of these graduates are employed, but what salaries are they taking. I will take my degree in Computer Science over a degree in Education or social work any day of the week.

11 posted on 01/04/2012 1:51:21 PM PST by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters of Freedom, Committee of Correspondence)
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To: SeekAndFind

Tell me about it/
Architecture is in the pitts, I am just barely hanging onto my job and my firm is just barely hanging on to being in business.

And architecture in the pits (still) bodes ill for construction as a whole.


12 posted on 01/04/2012 1:55:25 PM PST by Lorianne
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To: floridarunner01

Psychology gets a bad rap because occupations in those fields tend to pay low wages. Bachelor degrees in psychology tend to lead to social work and while social workers are being sought, they are not paid much. Somewhat similar situation for teachers. Easy to get a job but you will never reach high income levels.


13 posted on 01/04/2012 2:23:08 PM PST by Thunderballer
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To: NVDave

The person wearing the “architect” hat is the boss. Structural engineers, electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, and auto cad techs all work for the “architect”.

Do you think a 22 year old kid with a degree in architecture is going to be the boss? Not gonna happen.

In the old days, a fresh young architect worked his way up to being the boss by making drawings and little models out of cardboard. These positions have been replaced by autocad techs who often have less than 2 years at a community college and they are good. No architect will be able to do their job.


14 posted on 01/04/2012 2:25:12 PM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: NVDave

Hate to tell you but sometimes artsy-fartsy can pay off bigtime. I know several people who are millionaires through the arts (mostly opera singers).

I’m not sure why freepers are so hostile to the arts. I’m in the arts and my husband and I earn a fairly good living that way. And I can tell you, it ain’t easy to be a good artist - whether visual or theatrical. A lot of work, a lot of sweat and sometimes very little payoff. But the world would be a very sad, dreary place without some of these hardworking people.


15 posted on 01/04/2012 2:27:27 PM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: fishtank

The architecture is highly related to the building boom / bust. Architects typically design NEW buildings. For home remodeling, you typically don’t need an architect but can use a drafter and engineer. Foundation repairs and oil drilling employ engineers no longer working in construction, but architects don’t have that fall back.


16 posted on 01/04/2012 2:35:45 PM PST by tbw2
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To: floridarunner01

Psychology is also kept bouyed by the people drugging themselves into artificial acceptance or compliance. Get paid $60-260 for a visit every quarter to give prescriptions for Adderall, sleep aids, happy pills, etc.


17 posted on 01/04/2012 2:37:47 PM PST by tbw2
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To: miss marmelstein

Agreed. I also have an Arts degree and make a decent living. You just have to love what you do, be dedicated, and good. I wonder if the high unemployment rates reported have more to do with the volume of people that get these degrees compared to the others. Most of them may have gone in thinking it would be easy, when in reality, nothing is easy.


18 posted on 01/04/2012 2:42:24 PM PST by grimalkin (This paper by its very length defends itself against the risk of being read. - Winston Churchill)
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To: miss marmelstein

I can tell you why I have no respect for most of the supposed “artists” of today. My state mandates that 2% of any public project be spent on “art”. Consequently all public buildings, bridges, parks, etc. are all full of vulgar and ugly piles of metal and trash which is called “art” and costs the taxpayers millions of wasted dollars. It used to be an artist had to have genuine talent to sell their wares. Now “art” is a guaranteed welfare program for the untalented and unimaginative.


19 posted on 01/04/2012 2:45:23 PM PST by holyscroller ( Without God, America is one nation under)
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To: grimalkin

I really don’t think anyone with an artistic bent goes into these professions thinking it is going to be easy. I’ve been aligned with “artists” my whole life. I’ve never heard one of them say they went into it because it was “easy.” They went into it because it is their vocation. It’s a hard life.


20 posted on 01/04/2012 2:49:12 PM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: holyscroller

You don’t like the art that you see? Then encourage your kids to get into the arts (even on an amateur level) to change the culture. Conservatives long ago ceded the arts to liberal nutcases and you can see the results.

I, personally, will never allow libs to get away with their bad art. My husband and I work every day to promote truth and beauty in the arts. We don’t always succeed but sometimes we do.


21 posted on 01/04/2012 2:53:04 PM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: miss marmelstein; grimalkin

What do you guys do if I may ask? I’m an engineer but sometimes I wish I had done something in the arts. Like I think industrial design would’ve been fun.


22 posted on 01/04/2012 2:59:58 PM PST by Yardstick
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To: Yardstick

I’m a playwright and former actor. My husband is a producer. He only produces the most wonderful of plays. We been rich and we’ve been poor but we’re still here.


23 posted on 01/04/2012 3:09:16 PM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: Yardstick

I have an AA in liberals arts and two bachelors, one in pol-sci, the other in crim. I’ve never been without a job. However, I’ve never been a high wage earner. I returned to school at 40 for an MBA in Healthcare Management. Im rolling the dice but I think Ill be ok.


24 posted on 01/04/2012 3:10:00 PM PST by goseminoles
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To: miss marmelstein
I, personally, will never allow libs to get away with their bad art. My husband and I work every day to promote truth and beauty in the arts.

Good for you. I love it when liberals tell me you can't define art. I shoot right back at them with Ayn Rand's definition of art.

Art is a selective re-creation of reality according to an artist’s metaphysical value-judgments.

They never know what to say. They've always been taught that art is undefinable and that, therefore, anything must be accepted as art. It never occurred to them you could actually nail it down.

25 posted on 01/04/2012 3:13:27 PM PST by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)
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To: mamelukesabre

And the CAD jockey will not be able to do the architect’s job.


26 posted on 01/04/2012 3:15:14 PM PST by Lorianne
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To: miss marmelstein

Thank you.
It’s the same thing in architecture.
There is a lot of cr@p out there but instead of complaining, I just design completely differently than 90% of architects, and so far I’ve been pretty successful.
There is always a market for real quality, you just have to position yourself to find it.


27 posted on 01/04/2012 3:19:38 PM PST by Lorianne
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To: miss marmelstein

Thank you.
It’s the same thing in architecture.
There is a lot of cr@p out there but instead of complaining, I just design completely differently than 90% of architects, and so far I’ve been pretty successful.
There is always a market for real quality, you just have to position yourself to find it.


28 posted on 01/04/2012 3:19:57 PM PST by Lorianne
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To: BfloGuy

Funny how the old-timers (ya know like Leonardo and Michelangelo) knew what was good and what stunk. The idea of rebel art and art in conflict with the establishment/religion is a modern idea. When it works, it works. When it fails, it’s bad art.


29 posted on 01/04/2012 3:27:06 PM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: Lorianne

Perspective drawings and cardboard models? Picking out surface treatments and window types? Sidewalk layouts? Floorplans? I think some of them could handle that.


30 posted on 01/04/2012 3:28:49 PM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: Lorianne

Good for you! Keep up the dissident art!


31 posted on 01/04/2012 3:36:44 PM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: mamelukesabre

Oh, please. Have you ever seen cardboard models created by architecure students? They are mindblowing. 25 years ago this was the only way they could show their ideas (I assume it is computer-generated stuff today). The creativity and dexterity of these artists was something to behold.


32 posted on 01/04/2012 3:42:02 PM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: miss marmelstein

“Arts” are like “sports”: a lot more people try than can reasonably expect to succeed. It would be interesting to know what percentage of successful people in “arts” - drama, visual, musical, anything I’ve missed - got a college degree in that field, and what percentage of people who got an arts degree have used their education professionally. Even in today’s economy, not everyone who goes to college intends or needs to use their education to earn a living.

I use my management degree (which included accounting, finance, law, and real estate) for basic survival, with a nuclear family of 12 plus elderly parents, and my Spanish classes for the church, but if I had the chance to do my college years again, I would take some vocal performance classes, and maybe piano, instead of four semesters of Asian history, cool as that was, because it would be more useful now.


33 posted on 01/04/2012 4:03:59 PM PST by Tax-chick (Whatever happens, I'll get through it. Or die trying.)
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To: mamelukesabre

That’s not architecture, those are tasks incidental to architecture


34 posted on 01/04/2012 4:10:57 PM PST by Lorianne
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To: miss marmelstein
I’m not sure why freepers are so hostile to the arts.

So many Freepers consider themselves to be oh so practical people. On these kinds of threads you often see admonition after admonition for everyone to drop the major they have and go into the engineering school and you know the reasonL the monetary payoff .

I've often wondered why we don't just drop the advanced education requirements (you know, history, foreign languages, philosopy, and the such) and set up engineering institutes for these people where they won't bothered by such requirements. They clearly cannot differentiate education from job training.

35 posted on 01/04/2012 4:26:09 PM PST by OldPossum
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To: OldPossum

Because this is America? We can choose life as we wish. The mentality is truly scary. Keep the govt out my education. I can thrill my education as I wish.


36 posted on 01/04/2012 4:53:49 PM PST by goseminoles
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To: fishtank
The architecture ranking surprises me a bit, was it a bad choice, say, ten years ago?

Given that somewhere between 50-60 of formerly practicing architects were unemployed in 2009, the number seems low.

37 posted on 01/04/2012 5:02:20 PM PST by Professional Engineer (Never Again! Except for the next time.)
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To: goseminoles

You can thrill your education?


38 posted on 01/04/2012 5:06:30 PM PST by Tax-chick (Whatever happens, I'll get through it. Or die trying.)
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To: Tax-chick

Yeah, I’ve been scratching my head about that one, too.

And putting the government into education? Heck, I would try to get it out of education, i.e., remove the engineering depts. from govt.-sanctioned universities and place that discipline in private “institutes” where they can’t be bothered with all that “education stuff.” You know?


39 posted on 01/04/2012 5:33:01 PM PST by OldPossum
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To: OldPossum

The less government involvement in anything, the better the -thing will be.

If we’re speaking of spherical college degrees in a vacuum (to make a “Big Bang Theory” joke, for those who have a Sheldon in the family), there’s no reason anyone should care what anyone else studies. Each student (or his parents) should attempt to evaluate the cost vs. the financial+non-financial benefit of the education he buys.

Some degrees have a better chance of producing financial rewards, either because Chemical Engineering jobs pay more than Early Childhood Development jobs, or because more people get jobs as accountants than as opera singers. Nonetheless, if a person wants to accept a high risk of failure, or accept a lower-paying field, who else should care?

A legitimate public concern arises when everyone is paying, through government subsidies to schools, grants/loans to students, and so on. A theoretical concern, at least. A twit with a degree in Victim Studies is more of a problem when she gets a civil service job than when she’s just blowing money on the degree.

To me, the more important issue is the percentage of students who attend college for years but never graduate. My oldest son is starting community college next week, and our agreement is that, as long as he’s doing well in the sensible state-approved tuition-free courses he’s taking, he can continue to envision his brilliant future as a starving, lice-ridden alternative rock guitarist. If he actually attempts to embark on that career, he’s financially on his own!


40 posted on 01/04/2012 5:48:17 PM PST by Tax-chick (Whatever happens, I'll get through it. Or die trying.)
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To: Tax-chick

I absolutely love the second sentence in the last paragraph. Beautifully stated.

To copy something I heard long time ago: you perhaps have mistaken me for someone who gives a damn. I really don’t care what goes on in colleges (well, I don’t like the teaching of America as a worthless place by some professors) or how students do or don’t benefit. I have no children and thus no dog in that fight.

I just am bemused by the constant blather of some Freepers who are convinced that they—and only they—know what people should study: ENGINEERING.

At this point in my life (old age) I just hope that this country holds together. It would be a shame for 237 years of war, strife, democracy, constitutional government and other ideals that men and women have stood for to go under.


41 posted on 01/04/2012 6:08:14 PM PST by OldPossum
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To: miss marmelstein

And so can becoming a professional athlete.

For the vast majority of kids, neither pursuit makes economic sense. For the small minorities of kids who have the drive and passion to become the best in those fields, yes, they can (and probably will) cash in.

The difference is that the taxpayers aren’t on the hook for HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of student debt that won’t be repaid for athletic kids who can’t get a job.

When I see kids with artsy-fartsy degrees who are in debt over $100K... and I have a pretty good handle on what their field pays the average/median/exceptional graduate... I can predict quite safely that the next debt-inflated bubble to pop will be the education bubble and ground zero of that explosion will be liberal arts and artsy-fartsy degrees.

Re: your second point: One of the reasons why conservatives are hostile to the arts is NEA. Others are CPB, PBS, public funded art exhibits, museums and so on that make it their mission to offend the sensibilities of the public.

The following quite nicely captures the attitude of public servants and “the arts:”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvNw0P5ZMbA


42 posted on 01/04/2012 9:51:05 PM PST by NVDave
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To: mamelukesabre
Everyone wants to be an architect.

GEORGE: I don’t know what’cha had to tell her that for. You put me in a very difficult position, Marine Biologist! I'm very uncomfortable with this whole thing.

JERRY: You know with all do respect I would think it's right up your alley.

GEORGE: Well it's not up my alley! It's one thing if I make it up. I know what I'm doin, I know my alleys! You got me in the Galapagos Islands livin' with the turtles, I don't know where the hell I am.

JERRY: Well you came in the other day with all that whale stuff, the squeaking and the squealing and…

GEORGE: Look, why couldn't you make me an architect? You know I always wanted to pretend that I was an architect.


43 posted on 01/04/2012 10:16:50 PM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: miss marmelstein

That’s really wonderful. I’m glad you were both able to make it.


44 posted on 01/05/2012 7:39:31 AM PST by midnightcat
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To: Lorianne

That’s not architecture, those are tasks incidental to architecture
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And my point is...ARCHITECTS are incidental to architecture! Hence the unemployment rate.


45 posted on 01/05/2012 9:33:52 AM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: NVDave

You may be describing the OWS movement.


46 posted on 01/05/2012 9:34:53 AM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: Moonman62

ART VANDALAY!


47 posted on 01/05/2012 9:35:18 AM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: mamelukesabre

Except there is a little blip called virtually NO CONSTRUCTION going on and no capital to available to get construction going. Architects being out of work are the leading indicator that the construction industry is not coming back soon.

However, I will agree with you in one way ... that there was/is a glut of architects even before the construction bust.


48 posted on 01/05/2012 10:23:14 AM PST by Lorianne
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