Posted on 01/12/2012 6:23:34 AM PST by JNRoberts
So, does anyone know how I can legally get this handgun from California to me in Texas without me having to drive there to pick it up?
On a revolver, the frame is the gun. It is the piece which requires FFL transfer. For most rifles, it is the receiver (AR’s it’s the lower) whatever actuates the ammo is the firearm.
Fly in full burqa. Or just drive and enjoy the view of the USA while you still have a chance to see it without TSA checkpoints on the roads.
I would say Yes. Why would the law require FFL’s be involved. It is best to check State and Federal Gun Laws. The penalties are severe for violations. 5 years in prison and $5,000, is one example. The FFL will certainly know his responsibilities. I bought a book at a gun show here in Florida, written by a lawyer/member of the NRA. It is a great guide. Don’t be ignorant of the law, it is never an excuse.
You can expect to get different rules depending upon which UPS office you use and which employee waits on you.
My daughter was able to ship after "disassembling" the gun and shipping it in two packages. Neither of the packages was required to be second-day air, signature required, as I believe is UPS policy.
The receiving FFL can supply a code number which permits his FFL to be verified online. This is a good thing to have to assure UPS that the gun is being shipped to an FFL. Make sure that your receiving FFL is willing to do the transfer and follow his directions.
No, it's the frame that is considered a firearm.
I agree with Sudetenland. That’s how my son did it. He had it shipped to the gun shop across the street from his home. No problem.
What if it is your Gun and you have multiple houses in 2 different States, 2 in Kalifornia and 1 in Arizona, Have purchased Firearms in Ca previously and Purchased in AZ recently. Can I “legally” Transport from one home to another??
I had to deal with this issue a few years ago and both researched on the BATFE site and called BATFE to confirm. Then I read the statute.
FFL to FFL is clearly allowed. Each takes their cut. Where I live, the cut is so large that it would be close to half the value of a normal used .38spl revolver to do the transfer. Add in shipping and insurance, and you’re over half the value.
If the owner is permitted to possess the gun in another state (e.g., don’t take an unlicensed gun into MD), then the owner can transfer directly to an FFL in the foreign jurisdiction while physically present there. The FFL can then sell to whomever the FFL wants, including the person who comes in with the owner. This makes sense since the big deal is making sure the gun is shipped only to an FFL and that the background check gets done when the FFL transfers to the 3d party.
Finally, you’re always allowed to ship a gun directly to an FFL. From the BATFE website faq: “ A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
“
Additionally, the only requirement I’ve been able to find for transfer is that you need a FFL in the buyer’s state — there doesn’t seem to be anything requiring the seller / owner to ship the firearm through an FFL in the seller’s state:
“Q: May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State?
A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]
“
Do your own research though — it may be hard to get FFLs to help you because many of them are ignorant of the transfer provisions or they are so legitimately scared of BATFE being arbitrary and capricious in interpreting its own rules that they will insist on the clearly safe FFL to FFL transfer.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#gca-unlicensed-transfer
One more thing. The one thing you CANNOT do is drive to CA to pick up his handgun. You can buy rifles and shotguns from FFLs in other states. All handgun transactions between residents of different states must pass through an FFL.
When I had to drive from Nevada to Alaska I had a couple of handguns, I had a person and an address in Alaska to send parcels.
So I stripped the guns into various bagged components and mixed them into a shipment of hobby tools and HO railroad trains. Sent them by UPS. Not a problem.
Nowadays I would use several shipments of “machine tools” and don’t forget to add some machine tools to the shipment.
You have gotten good answers to your question, but I just wanted to add: The NRA crafted the laws that are the problem to your question. They even coined the phrase “sensible gun control” that the Brady Bunch uses while doing it.
Less than a year prior to that one of those dealers had done a transfer from an out of state manufacturer to me without any qualms.
No matter what the law says you need to talk with FFL at both ends to see what's going on at the time.
Did you do this after 1968? If so, you broke the law by shipping a receiver/frame without sending it to an FFL.
Please follow the laws, people. I hate the BATFE as much as the next gun owner, but you don't want them busting down your door, stomping your cat to death, and killing your pregnant wife.
Ah. I was going with the fact that on an AR they consider the lower receiver the firearm, which contains the trigger mechanism.
So count that as an educated guess.
OK, I apologize dear BATF, I would hate to be on their Santa bad boy list. And I would hate to see my kitties shot and stomped on by their over eager recruits as well and posted on facebook.
Check your state laws—always check your state laws before you do anything. If NYC’s arrest of the marine tells you nothing else, it should tell you that in spades.
I saw an article the other day where some people actually followed a law and asked permission to save a dying sea turtle they found. The thing was suffocating on a blow fish, and they sat around asking for permission?
People are so busy trying not to anger the powers that be that we have ceased to be thinking individuals who have control over our own lives.
I don't blame you for thinking the way you do; no one wants their cat stomped. But we live in a reality where people behave the way the government wants BECAUSE they have been threatened with violence/bankruptcy/imprisonment if they don't. Is that the America we want?
Now back to your regularly scheduled thread topic. :)
I saw an article the other day where some people actually followed a law and asked permission to save a dying sea turtle they found. The thing was suffocating on a blow fish, and they sat around asking for permission?
People are so busy trying not to anger the powers that be that we have ceased to be thinking individuals who have control over our own lives.
I don't blame you for thinking the way you do; no one wants their cat stomped. But we live in a reality where people behave the way the government wants BECAUSE they have been threatened with violence/bankruptcy/imprisonment if they don't. Is that the America we want?
Now back to your regularly scheduled thread topic. :)
Guilty as charged. You're right. And I myself regularly violate little malum prohibitum laws that I find inconvenient.
Yes, we should fight back. But how? The whole GCA '68 should be repealed, as amended, along with the '34 NFA. But HOW? Presidents, Congresscritters and Senators just keep piling on more and more gun laws. We can't even buy a piece of metal milled in 1987 or later, because it violates some idiot law which itself infringes the 2nd.
Still, I don't want to be gunned down by the ATF after they stomped my cats, killed my dogs, and brain-shot my wife.
But I don't know any other way to avoid that than to just go along with their stupid rules right now.
Ideas?
Guilty as charged. You're right. And I myself regularly violate little malum prohibitum laws that I find inconvenient.
Yes, we should fight back. But how? The whole GCA '68 should be repealed, as amended, along with the '34 NFA. But HOW? Presidents, Congresscritters and Senators just keep piling on more and more gun laws. We can't even buy a piece of metal milled in 1987 or later, because it violates some idiot law which itself infringes the 2nd.
Still, I don't want to be gunned down by the ATF after they stomped my cats, killed my dogs, and brain-shot my wife.
But I don't know any other way to avoid that than to just go along with their stupid rules right now.
Ideas?
(format error corrected)
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