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Vegas priest who stole church money to gamble sentenced to prison
Los Angeles Times ^ | January 11, 2012

Posted on 01/15/2012 1:03:23 PM PST by Cincinatus' Wife

For years, Monsignor Kevin McAuliffe lived something of a double life.

He was widely admired by his flock at St. Elizabeth Ann Seton, which he helped build into one of the largest Roman Catholic parishes in the Las Vegas area. But at the same time, he was stealing money from the church.

He stole from the gift shop. He stole from the votive candle collection. He stole from a fund for novenas, or Masses in honor of the dead. Over nearly a decade, he pocketed about $650,000.

His motive was all too familiar in slot-machine-heavy Nevada. McAuliffe was a gambling addict.

On Friday, U.S. District Judge James C. Mahan sentenced the priest, who pleaded guilty to charges stemming from the thefts, to more than three years in prison and ordered him to pay restitution. In doing so, the judge waved off the defense's request to give McAuliffe probation.

McAuliffe’s attorney, Margaret Stanish, asked the court to consider his lifelong devotion to the Catholic Church, which started with helping nuns when he was a schoolboy. McAuliffe has also been diagnosed with social anxiety disorder and depression, she said, but in recent months had “excelled” in gambling addiction treatment.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimesblogs.latimes.com ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: catholicpriest; crime; gambling

1 posted on 01/15/2012 1:03:31 PM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

I thought they got sent to Craggy Island.


2 posted on 01/15/2012 1:04:52 PM PST by ClaudiusI
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

He must be a progressive OWS.


3 posted on 01/15/2012 1:06:48 PM PST by Vaduz
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Mr. Torquemada, please report to work immediately.

“Thou shalt not steal”, prison should be nothing for him, according to his own professed belief his real punishment will be eternal.

Oh right, a contrite last minute “confession” wipes the slate clean, how convenient! /S


4 posted on 01/15/2012 1:11:57 PM PST by Loyal Sedition
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
But the judge was more heavily swayed by prosecutors, who focused on the length and depth of McAuliffe's deception. He falsified parish financial reports and shuffled money among accounts to cover his theft, court papers said.

McAuliffe never sought treatment for his betting problem, prosecutors said, though he could have through the church or private counselors. He also left his own savings untouched as he burned through the church's money.

I don't care what the religion is, church 'leaders' that steal from the money church members give to the church in the reasonable assumption that it will be used for church-related purposes deserve no excuses or special treatment. This Monsignor stole well over a half-million dollars from his church so he could gamble it away. Sorry, but I'm not sympathetic to his lawyer's claims of rehabilitation and so on. They all say that when they're caught. He got off relatively easy.

5 posted on 01/15/2012 1:15:14 PM PST by Jim Scott
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To: Loyal Sedition

So once saved, isn’t always saved?


6 posted on 01/15/2012 1:29:41 PM PST by BenKenobi (Rick Santorum - "The Force is strong with this one")
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Nice. A Poster Boy for Bad Priests.

Glad we are rid of him!


7 posted on 01/15/2012 1:38:24 PM PST by Palladin (Vote for Rick Santorum: He is a REAL Catholic.)
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: BenKenobi

Suppose it depends on how you view “Mortal Sins” and ripping of the church.

Even murderers can claim redemption at the last minute, kind of makes the whole “Do not sin, or else” thing rather impotent if you ask me.


9 posted on 01/15/2012 1:46:04 PM PST by Loyal Sedition
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To: ClaudiusI

That would be an ecumenical matter!


10 posted on 01/15/2012 1:50:59 PM PST by FrdmLvr (culture, language, borders)
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To: ClaudiusI

The money was just “resting” in his bank account.


11 posted on 01/15/2012 2:07:33 PM PST by Oratam
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To: ClaudiusI

12 posted on 01/15/2012 2:15:04 PM PST by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: Jim Scott

Where were the Parish Council and the Trustees?


13 posted on 01/15/2012 2:20:23 PM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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To: sillipuddi

You don’t say.

Where does that say that we cannot repent of those sins and be forgiven?


14 posted on 01/15/2012 2:21:03 PM PST by BenKenobi (Rick Santorum - "The Force is strong with this one")
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To: Loyal Sedition

The thief on the cross would probably see it differently.

None of us are worthy of salvation, of God’s great love for us, and yet he still loves us anyways.


15 posted on 01/15/2012 2:22:20 PM PST by BenKenobi (Rick Santorum - "The Force is strong with this one")
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: Loyal Sedition
“Thou shalt not steal”, prison should be nothing for him, according to his own professed belief his real punishment will be eternal. Oh right, a contrite last minute “confession” wipes the slate clean, how convenient! /S

your attempt at humor and your lack of knowledge concerning Catholicism is both apparent and pathetic.. Christ does not condemn people to hell for stealing a few dollars and the person need not make a last minute confession to be forgiven his sins. While Catholics follow the bible and seek to have their sins forgiven through the Sacrament of reconciliation, and protestants figure they can do as they please because all sins were forgiven through the death of Christ, Catholics need not wait until the moment of death to be reconciled with Christ. Most Catholics, recalling the phrase "whose sins you shall forgive they are forgiven, and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained" make frequent and sincere confessions. They are required however, to make restitution (if possible) and to demonstrate true contrition for the sin. We realize, of course, that Christ did indeed die so that sin may be forgiven. However, Catholics believe that we still have some personal responsibility to atone for our sins and strive to eliminate further sins from our lives.

17 posted on 01/15/2012 2:55:09 PM PST by terycarl (lurking, but well informed)
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Donate Today!

18 posted on 01/15/2012 3:45:44 PM PST by RedMDer (Forward With Confidence!)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
finally!....back to traditional Catholic sins like gambling....

give me an old school priest anyday of the week.....

19 posted on 01/15/2012 5:49:20 PM PST by cherry
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To: terycarl

Thin skin?

And BTW, let me formally renounce my “Baptism” right here and now.
It was imposed on me, I wasn’t or given a choice any more than a Muslim is given an honest choice, and it did not stick. LOL!


20 posted on 01/15/2012 6:08:34 PM PST by Loyal Sedition
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To: BenKenobi
>>So once saved, isn’t always saved?<<

So it is a works based salvation?

21 posted on 01/15/2012 6:17:36 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

Apparently it’s not.

If you are saved, then you sin, then you are no longer saved anymore and you are condemned to hell.

Ergo, once saved, always saved is a myth.


22 posted on 01/15/2012 6:20:48 PM PST by BenKenobi (Rick Santorum - "The Force is strong with this one")
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To: BenKenobi
>>If you are saved, then you sin, then you are no longer saved anymore and you are condemned to hell.<<

So you would say that Christ’s sacrifice, unlike the sacrifices in the Old Testament Temple, is not the atonement for sins? You would also say that Christ was not the “perfect, once for all” sacrifice but that men have to finish what He started?

23 posted on 01/15/2012 7:12:18 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

That’s what seems to be the case here.

I’m sure you can see my concern.

If you are saved, then how can your sins ever make you unsaved again?


24 posted on 01/15/2012 7:15:36 PM PST by BenKenobi (Rick Santorum - "The Force is strong with this one")
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To: Loyal Sedition

Nah, a lame confession, a lame repentence does not help. As Jesus said — those who say “Lord, Lord” without true repentence will not be saved. It’s the same about “taking Jesus as your buddy or personal savior” — He’s the savior of the World! One needs to truly repent, believe, be baptised, endure to the end etc.


25 posted on 01/16/2012 3:55:26 AM PST by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: BenKenobi; CynicalBear
Christ saved us, He is saving us and we hope to be saved by His will and the grace of the Holy Spirit.

The atonement for sins is/was Christ's one-time sacrifice, the perfect once-and-for-all sacrifice that we participate in, in each Eucharistic celebration (as the Prophet Micah spoke about the prayers being all the time, across the world)

His Salvation saves us in the continuous sanctification.

it's like (a bad analogy) we get on a bus and someone before us has paid for us already. We just have to accept this payment. Of course it's a bad analogy as we ourselves can't pay for the ticket no matter what we do. AND, it's not just "oh, he paid, now let me do what I like" but as Jesus said Repent, believe, be baptised, eat of My body and blood and endure to the end"/

26 posted on 01/16/2012 4:00:33 AM PST by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: Cronos; BenKenobi; smvoice; HossB86; RnMomof7; metmom; boatbums; caww; Iscool; ...
>>it's not just "oh, he paid, now let me do what I like"<<

It’s interesting that Catholics always bring up that line. Not once have they ever been able to show that anyone has ever said that. No one I have ever known has said that. I can assure you that no one who is saved with the indwelling of Christ would ever utter those words or think that anyone would who professes faith in Him.

Look at what Jesus said to the Pharisees.

John 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

He wasn’t commending them in that passage. That was just after He said to the woman caught in adultery “Neither do I condemn thee”. That comment about “ye judge after the flesh” is something that Catholics should ponder and study. It means something. The focus on flesh is rather pervasive in the RCC. It’s not what Jesus and the apostles taught.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

“not in the flesh”? Those who are saved are not in the flesh? What does that mean to a Catholic who focuses so much on the flesh? Constantly they tell us it’s what is done “in the flesh” that is important yet both Jesus and Paul have told us it’s not “in the flesh” that we live or judge. How is that to be understood? Paul again tells us.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

It’s Christ in us that gives us the ability and understanding of what “in the Spirit” means. It’s no longer we who live but Christ lives in us.

Paul says, “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith OF the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.” Galatians 2:20

Notice it says by the faith of Christ. Not >u>my faith in Christ. It’s not our faith we rely on, it’s Christ’s faith which we were promised would sustain us. It’s not our righteousness we rely on which Catholics constantly try to impose.

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: Philippians 3:9

It’s the faith of Christ in us that imparts righteousness to us and not the following of the law of the flesh that Catholics insist is what is needed for salvation. The RCC teaches that it’s by living according to the laws of the flesh that is needed for salvation. True believers are told that it’s Christ Jesus living in us that gives us that righteousness, sanctification and redemption.

But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. 1 Corinthians 1:30-31

It’s God who gets the glory for it is God who works through us and not we who follow some law of the flesh. Now if each of us who truly have accepted Jesus as our savior possess the righteousness of Christ would you please tell me who has more righteousness then Christ?

So if it’s Christ who lives in us and it’s Christ’s righteousness we have been given why would we even want or think to “do anything we want” as Catholics accuse us of? If it’s “not I who live but Christ in me” how can you assume that Christ would cause us to believe we can “do what I like” as you said? Christ told us that we would have the law written in our heart and He told us we would have His Spirit living within us to give us the faith to live by that law “in the Spirit”. “it is not I who lives but Christ who lives in me”.

If Catholics want to live “in the flesh” and think they can do it by their own strength the result will be disappointing to say the least. Accusing others of thinking that if they are saved they can “do anything they want” indicates a lack of knowledge of what “Christ in us” means.

27 posted on 01/16/2012 7:34:35 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
Well said truth to counter the continual stream of misrepresentations of how Spirit filled Christians view sin.

How ironic that we're accused of being followers of Paul and yet Catholics completely ignore what Paul taught about living in sin.

Romans 6 1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. 7 For one who has died has been set free from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?

17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations.For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

28 posted on 01/16/2012 3:15:57 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: CynicalBear; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; ...

Methinks that those who think that just because we are free in Christ that it means that we think we have a license to sin, are projecting.

A lot.

They don’t or can’t understand that we don’t indulge in the flesh because we’re free in Christ and our salvation is assured, don’t understand because that is what they’d do (indulge in wanton sin) if they were in the place of thinking that they were free.

They need the outward restraint to keep them from sinning because they don’t have the inward restraint.


29 posted on 01/16/2012 3:22:38 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom; CynicalBear
I picture them as a group of busy bodies, gossiping about who is doing what, and what a pity, so and so is back to doing what he used to do..Not minding their own bees wax, but buzzing around, searching for a honeycomb of "those in need of ...prayer.. and how going to church more often would certainly help their "walk".

Keeps them focused on everyone but the man in the mirror and God's Word to that man...

30 posted on 01/16/2012 3:50:18 PM PST by smvoice (Better Buck up, Buttercup. The wailing and gnashing is for an eternity..)
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To: metmom; CynicalBear
I picture them as a group of busy bodies, gossiping about who is doing what, and what a pity, so and so is back to doing what he used to do..Not minding their own bees wax, but buzzing around, searching for a honeycomb of "those in need of ...prayer.. and how going to church more often would certainly help their "walk".

Keeps them focused on everyone but the man in the mirror and God's Word to that man...

31 posted on 01/16/2012 3:52:38 PM PST by smvoice (Better Buck up, Buttercup. The wailing and gnashing is for an eternity..)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
You'd have to wonder why, after he lost the first 100k, it didn't occur to him that he didn't have any luck and that God sure wasn't about to help him out. But to keep on stealing and keep on gambling....it does certainly sound like an addiction. Most compulsive gamblers always think, "Just one more bet and I'll win it all back. Just one more bet."

The trouble is when churches encourage gambling with Bingo games and sponsored group trips to casinos. You have to ask if perhaps this wasn't in come way encouraged by the church "winking" at gambling and not providing the proper supervision all those years.

32 posted on 01/16/2012 6:53:46 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: terycarl
While Catholics follow the bible and seek to have their sins forgiven through the Sacrament of reconciliation, and protestants figure they can do as they please because all sins were forgiven through the death of Christ,...

Hold on there, hoss. Since when do "Protestants figure they can do as they please because all sins were forgiven..."??? In the rush to criticize those not Catholic, did you forget that this is NOT what Protestants believe? We certainly DO believe, as Scripture teaches, that "if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (I John 1:9) No true born again, saved by the blood of Christ, redeemed Christian thinks getting saved is a "license to sin". What we DO know - again from Scripture - is that we are not saved by righteous acts of our own but by the grace of God. We are NOT saved because we deserve to be by our own merit, but because God is his mercy has redeemed us from the debt of sin - which is DEATH.

People don't get saved because they are good people. No one is good enough nor can ever be good enough. No one can merit eternal life because even one little sin is payable by eternal separation from God - HELL. But God loved us so much that he gave us his only begotten son, who died for us, so that, through him, he gives to us eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ "to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace that he lavished on us." (Eph. 1:6-8)

So, rather than falsely accuse non-Catholic Christians of "thinking we can do as we please", why not admit what really separates us? We are saved NOT by righteous deeds which we have done, but by the mercy and grace of God. We live lives that honor and glorify God not so that we may one day be saved, but because we are saved. Part of that living holy lives entails admission of wrongs, confession, repentance and reconciliation. If we have wronged another, we are told to go to that person and confess our sin and ask for their forgiveness. We should also make restitution if possible, but we can never "atone" for our sins. Only Christ and his blood makes atonement for our sins. The difference is we can know right now we have eternal life because we have received Christ.

"And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." (I John 5:11-13)

33 posted on 01/16/2012 7:31:00 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: metmom
They need the outward restraint to keep them from sinning because they don’t have the inward restraint.

That is quite insightful!

34 posted on 01/16/2012 8:06:57 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: metmom
They need the outward restraint to keep them from sinning because they don’t have the inward restraint.

yeah,right....that's it (not)

35 posted on 01/16/2012 8:22:11 PM PST by terycarl (lurking, but well informed)
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To: terycarl

What inward restraint do Catholics have to keep them from sinning?


36 posted on 01/16/2012 8:25:33 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Loyal Sedition
Thin skin? And BTW, let me formally renounce my “Baptism” right here and now. It was imposed on me, I wasn’t or given a choice any more than a Muslim is given an honest choice, and it did not stick. LOL

WOW, I've NEVER been called thin skinned before...I'm as tough as nails and cannot be embarrassed by anyone. That having been said, you cannot renounce your baptism and luckily for you, the fact that you might deny Christ means nothing. He came to save all mankind and I would assume that includes you...What you do with your life is, of course, strictly up to you but because you are commenting on this thread, I figure that you have at least some interest in salvation. Your baptism was not imposed on you, it was a priceless gift to you...say thanks

37 posted on 01/16/2012 8:41:04 PM PST by terycarl (lurking, but well informed)
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To: terycarl; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; count-your-change; ..
your attempt at humor and your lack of knowledge concerning Catholicism is both apparent and pathetic.. Christ does not condemn people to hell for stealing a few dollars and the person need not make a last minute confession to be forgiven his sins.

That's no different than the criticism lobbed at Protestants that all our sins are forgiven, even the ones we haven't repented of.

Jesus wouldn't throw someone into hell for stealing?

So, Catholics can do what they want and figure that stealing isn't a big deal for Jesus and they're good to go?

James 2:10-11 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

Protestants don't put sin on a sliding scale of seriousness. Sin is sin, be it a lie or murder.

So for a Catholic to criticize a Protestant over taking sin lightly, this is extremely hypocritical. If Jesus won't send someone to hell for stealing, then Catholics have no reason to not steal. They can steal with impunity because it doesn't affect their salvation.

That's taking sin lightly; thinking that some sin of some kind is not worthy of hell.

However, Catholics believe that we still have some personal responsibility to atone for our sins and strive to eliminate further sins from our lives.

Hebrews 9:22 Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

What part of this verse is so hard to understand? Personal responsibility to eliminate sin from our life? It can't happen because we can't do it. If we die for our own sin, we have just paid the wages due for it and it does not redeem us. Penance, works, sacraments, nothing, can obtain forgiveness except the shedding of righteous blood.

Christ didn't die to finish up what we could do on our own. He died to do what we couldn't do on our own, and that is gain forgiveness for the least sin in our lives.

If works could do it, Christ died for nothing.

If Christ's blood can take care of some of our sins, it can take care of all of them.

38 posted on 01/16/2012 9:13:03 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: terycarl; Loyal Sedition; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; ...
That having been said, you cannot renounce your baptism and luckily for you, the fact that you might deny Christ means nothing.

OH?

So *Once saved, always saved* (OSAS) is mocked and derided, but *Once Catholic, always Catholic* (OCAC) isn't?

So God cannot seal us until the day of redemption with the Holy Spirit, but the Catholic church can seal us into Catholicism forever with water baptism?

So *Once Catholic, always Catholic* can hold even if we *deny Christ*, but the main argument against OSAS is that we can't claim that because we don't know if we're ever going to deny Christ at some unknown date in the future?

So the Catholic church can do what God Himself cannot do, leave an indelible mark or seal on someone's soul and spirit?

What CHUTZPAH!!!!

Your baptism was not imposed on you, it was a priceless gift to you...say thanks

On the contrary, water baptism does nothing for the soul

You want to talk gift? This is what God has to say....

Ephesians 2:4-10 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

39 posted on 01/16/2012 9:29:46 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom
"...we can't claim that because we don't know if we're ever going to deny Christ at some unknown date in the future?"

I've heard this before.

It is why doing the work of God is so important.So that our minds begin to be transformed...thus...2 Timothy 1:7 - For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

No-one who has been GIVEN a sound mind will then deny the very person who gave it to them.It would be proof they never took hold of this gift to begin with.

40 posted on 01/16/2012 10:05:11 PM PST by mitch5501 (It's high time I changed this stupid tagline!)
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To: terycarl

Interest in “Salvation”, you MUST be kidding!

I’m a practical atheist, constantly amused by the antics of the loudly “Devout” and their “Faith”.
Don’t usually comment on them unless they attack me (Usually as a vile “Secular Humanist”), or are such obscene self-serving frauds as this thieving priest.

I recall reading that there ARE ways to void an involuntary “Baptism”, who do I have to offend to get excommunicated? LOL
Not really worth my effort to “Undo” such inane superstition.

Never attended a day of ANY church since I was old enough to escape it, the “Sunday School” indoctrination did not work.
So far as I know the silly “Baptism” was my only day in Catholic clutches, ever.
Granny passed several years ago, I have no idea what she was thinking, SHE was not a true believer, and so far as I know not even Catholic!

I did attend a friends Catholic funeral service, forgot what they called it.
Found the ceremony demeaning to my friend, he was clearly an afterthought, he was barely mentioned, but the church was praised over and over!
Got to love the symbolic cannibalism too!


41 posted on 01/16/2012 11:46:28 PM PST by Loyal Sedition
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To: metmom
>>If works could do it, Christ died for nothing.<<

Rom. 11:6 "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."

It’s either grace or works. It’s not grace and works. It’s a serious thing to teach that somehow works or effort on our part is required for salvation or even adds to our righteousness. What we do adds nothing to our righteousness.

Gal. 2:21, I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.

Our righteousness comes through our faith in Christ. It’s His righteousness that we are clothed with.

Phil. 3:9, "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."

The comforting thing is that it’s not even our faith that we need to rely on. It’s the faith of Christ in us that sustains us.

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: Philippians 3:9

It’s His faith that is given to us when we accept Him.

Paul says, “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith OF the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.” Galatians 2:20

When we understand that it’s totally Christ who wraps us in the His righteousness and works in us to do His will we can give glory to Him rather then vainly think we have pleased Him on our own.

Isaiah 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. 1 Corinthians 1:30-31

42 posted on 01/17/2012 4:46:43 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: metmom
>>So *Once saved, always saved* (OSAS) is mocked and derided, but *Once Catholic, always Catholic* (OCAC) isn't?<<

The contradictions we learn of are astounding.

43 posted on 01/17/2012 4:52:04 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

As is the hypocrisy.


44 posted on 01/17/2012 7:24:29 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom
AS Adam Clarke comments,

The Gospel proclaims liberty from the ceremonial law: but binds you still faster under the moral law. To be freed from the ceremonial law is the Gospel liberty; to pretend freedom from the moral law is Antinomianism.[11]

Noted commentator Albert Barnes states

The laws of the Jews are commonly divided into moral, ceremonial, and judicial. The moral laws are such as grow out of the nature of things, and which cannot, therefore, be changed - such as the duty of loving God and his creatures. These cannot be abolished, as it can never be made right to hate God, or to hate our fellow-men. Of this kind are the Ten Commandments, and these our Saviour has neither abolished nor superseded. The ceremonial laws are such as are appointed to meet certain states of society, or to regulate the religious rites and ceremonies of a people. These can be changed when circumstances are changed, and yet the moral law must be untouched. A general in an army may command his soldiers to appear sometimes in a red coat and sometimes in blue or in yellow. This would be a ceremonial law, and might be changed as he pleased. The duty of obeying him, and of being faithful to his country, could not be changed. [12]

See also REFORMATION FAITH + WORKS

45 posted on 01/17/2012 11:22:46 AM PST by daniel1212 (Our sinful deeds condemn us, but Christ's death and resurrection gains salvation. Repent +Believe)
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To: daniel1212; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; ...

Nor do they understand that freedom doesn’t mean freedom to do what you want, but freedom from the bondage and penalty of sin.

I now have the freedom to choose to do right and good, whereas before I was still a slave to sin and to sin was my default setting, the natural and automatic reaction to everything that happened to me.

It appears that Catholics think that people (and themselves) are basically good until they chose to sin, and then they reject Christ and that by their own effort they can attain that goodness by refusing to sin.

They don’t realize that the human race is sold as slaves to sin, bound in its power until set free by the Son in the new birth experience. Only then can we be considered *good* and even then, it’s not our own inherent goodness but rather the goodness of Christ imputed to us.

The unredeemed man is not basically a good man who sins occasionally, but rather a reprobate who sometimes manages to do good.


46 posted on 01/17/2012 12:15:43 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

Right on, metmom. Hopefully, some with drop their pride and ‘get it’ and realize it’s ALL about what Jesus already did! They won’t find that teaching in the CC who wants to control them.


47 posted on 01/17/2012 11:27:22 PM PST by presently no screen name
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