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Rossi E-Cat Destined For Underwriters Laboratory
New Energy and Fuel ^ | January 17, 2012 | Brian Westenhaus

Posted on 01/17/2012 8:10:03 PM PST by Kevmo


Rossi E-Cat Destined For Underwriters Laboratory
January 17, 2012 | 6 Comments
Andrea Rossi, the inventor and energy behind the E-Cat was interviewed by Gary Hendershot and Sterling Allan for the Smart Scarecrow Show last Saturday the 14th of January 2012. The headline remark was Mr. Rossi has sent prototypes to the Underwriters Laboratories (UL). As best can be determined, that remark is in the past tense.

The customary view is the UL accepts products destined for sale in the final form, which is a fact. However, the UL also offers governmental units assistance in establishing reasoned law, regulation and rules. For manufacturers the UL also extends more than just final product tests, they work with manufacturers at the design stage to assure that a final product will in fact achieve an UL label. It’s a highly likely prospect that the design stage is where the UL and Mr. Rossi have started the process. A quick review of the UL policy suggests that the E-Cat is substantially interesting enough to begin the UL Process and that Low Energy Nuclear Reactions are a new field.


For the cheering section, The UL will have to have a working unit running to establish their parameters on the terms set by the UL. At some point, if an application for certification is made, the certainty the E-Cat will offer an alternative power source is essentially – a sure thing.

The UL involvement follows news that National Instruments (NI) is working with Mr. Rossi in designing new control systems for the one-megawatt and home size 10 kilowatt (kw) E-Cat. In the conversation Mr. Rossi offered that now great progress is being made and on his blog he’s indicated that they have been able to achieve stable steam production of 400ºC. This will be important later for the efficient production of electricity.

The NI participation offers a technically proficient and sophisticated set of tools, expertise and products that will improve the E-Cat and impact favorably on its price. There are other hints in the conversation that suggest the operation of an E-Cat is going to be “Plug and Play”, so much so that a home unit is going to come very soon.

First is the E-Cat is being designed to self sustain itself after the first initial warm-up. For an hour the E-Cat is thought to need about 2.8 kw, or about the power of 28 100 watt bulbs. From initiation of self-power, the only requirement is going to be electricity for the electronics and control system. The home E-Cat will produce only heat for now.

It’s going to be very cheap heat. Mr. Rossi is suggesting he can sell the E-Cat for $400 to $500 using the best engineering possible of the production line, automation of all aspects of the factory, and the use of robotics. The goal is to make this technology so affordable that everyone will be able to purchase a system.

The next revelation is E-Cat units would be capable of being re-fueled by individuals, not by technicians – somewhat like changing the ink in a pen. After using a cartridge for 180 service days (counted up as the system is actively in use), the system will indicate it needs to be replaced. An old cartridge would then be sent to Mr. Rossi’s Leonardo Corporation to be recycled as much of the remaining nickel could be salvaged, and it would only need to be re-processed. Previous information has made clear that opening a cartridge is not a good idea as nickel while safe in sizes like coins isn’t when nickel is reduced to the particle size within a cartridge.

To begin with cartridges are expected to cost somewhat more than $10 and over time come down to the $10 regular recycled cost. If a home were to need one unit for both water and space heating at $500 upfront and lasting 5 years and $13 each six months the monthly cost would be $8.34 and $2.17 or $10.51.

The next revelation is the hydrogen needed to feed the reaction is going be sourced from within the reactor. The home E-Cat may utilize a material inside of the reactor core, which can release and absorb hydrogen. While the production of hydrogen isn’t made clear, the reactor may be producing it as well as using it, or some means of scavenging is being used. However its being done, very little in involved. A new core will be loaded with about 10 grams and only picograms are needed for driving the reaction.

The enticing clue for the disbelieving set is the proprietary radio frequency generator that has emissions to interact with the reactions inside of the core. Along with the catalysts this is information that will stay secret as long as possible. What did slip is Mr. Rossi compared the use of the radio frequencies to martial arts. Rossi explained that the radio frequency generator allows the forces that would normally prevent the fusion process from taking place (Coulomb forces) to work for you, and not against you. Rossi offers that the full theory of how the system works will be revealed, as he put it, “soon.”
By all means have a look at the full video of the interview. Its does run over 1:50, but for those with cause to be interested, this is a very good use of a couple of hours. There is also a transcript available too.
The Rossi interview follows a video from NASA that discusses the importance of proceeding with LENR research. The over reaction by some of those reporting on the video release is making more of a note than the original news. Or simply put, jumping to the conclusion the NASA video somehow supports the Rossi E-Cat is just false. The gentleman at NASA, Dr. Joseph Zawodny does not mention Rossi name, just that the preponderance of research has become many reasons to get to work.

The NASA video does point out one important thing. While the first to market will be forever a leader, the technology is just now taking off and where it will lead in the decades to come is today anybody’s guess.









TOPICS: Science
KEYWORDS: cmns; coldfusion; ecat; lenr
http://newenergyandfuel.com/http:/newenergyandfuel/com/2012/01/17/rossi-e-cat-destined-for-underwriters-laboratory/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NewEnergyAndFuel+%28New+Energy+and+Fuel%29

The Cold Fusion Ping List

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/coldfusion/index?tab=articles

-------------------------------------------------------------- http://ecatnews.com/?p=1144

Unfortunately, if Rossi did the following:

1) hired a bunch of actors to pretend to be the customer reps,

2) created an elaborate year-long special-effects-derived series of demos,

3) bribed, hypnotised or otherwise fooled Focardi, Levi, Kullander, Essen, Bianchini, Stremmenos

4) arranged for Piantelli, Miley and a host of others to try to fool the world into thinking that cold fusion was real,

5) got NASA, SPAWAR, The Defense Threat Reduction Agency and The Defense Intelligence Agency to say nice things about the field,

6) got Bushnell to make a fool of himself,

7) and convinced his former partners to set up another company called Ampenergo to pretend that they had a contract for The Americas for a substantial sum ----- or that they just did this with no proof because they have worked with Rossi and trust him because he’s such a fine fellow,

8) sold his profitable company to his ex-partners in order to spend that wealth on a multi-million dollar scam; ----- certain that once he got all the above ducks in a row he would pretend to sell the first device ----- and then reel in the true target of his dastardly plan

9) and convinced a bunch of Greek crooks to set up a dummy company called Defkalion ----- to pretend to fight with him over the non-existent eCat, ----- to perpetuate the illusion and spin it off into a competing mirror-scam

[the second (this time genuine) buyer of a 1MW plant that will net him $2 million dollars ----- until they want their money back or sucker a $100 million dollar deal under the table ----- because he has experience in pulling the wool over all these idiotic eyes ----- and knows that they will just take his word for it ----- and not want to test if his 1MW plant can heat a small village without truckloads of coal or oil or a big fat electric cable coming into the container from beneath the floor (no you can’t lift the carpet!) ]

10) and that, in order to pull this off, Rossi had to risk discovery by interviewing all the people he subsequently fooled so that he could only invite the gullible Professors and not the brilliant anonymous posters on the Internet who surely would have found him out

then, yes, all bets are off and I’m with the guys who think that Rossi is an idiot and they are all geniuses.

1 posted on 01/17/2012 8:10:13 PM PST by Kevmo
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To: dangerdoc; citizen; Liberty1970; Red Badger; Wonder Warthog; PA Engineer; glock rocks; free_life; ..

http://newenergyandfuel.com/http:/newenergyandfuel/com/2012/01/17/rossi-e-cat-destined-for-underwriters-laboratory/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NewEnergyAndFuel+%28New+Energy+and+Fuel%29

The Cold Fusion Ping List

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/coldfusion/index?tab=articles

——————————————————————————————— http://ecatnews.com/?p=1144


2 posted on 01/17/2012 8:11:42 PM PST by Kevmo (If you can define a man by the depravity of his enemies, Rick Santorum must be a noble soul indeed.)
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To: All; y'all; et al

Momentous Breakthroughs Announced During Anniversary E-Cat Interview

http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html

“Andrea Rossi, the inventor of the E-Cat (cold fusion energy catalyzer), announced many breakthroughs in the development of his technology... This is the first exotic free energy technology that we know of that has been submitted for UL certification, a major milestone prior to deployment to the market.

REACTOR CORE — The reactor core of the home E-Cat unit is about the size of a cigarette box, and is capable of producing ten kilowatts of power.

SIMPLE REFUELING — It was revealed home E-Cat units would be capable of being re-fueled by individuals, and not by technicians. He claimed it would be like changing the ink in a pen....If the entire world converted all their power producing systems to run off nickel, only 1% of the annual production would be consumed.

NO HYDROGEN CANISTER — Unlike previous E-Cat systems which required the use of a hydrogen canister, the new home E-Cat utilizes a material inside of the reactor core which can release and absorb hydrogen. ...The removal of the hydrogen canister will make the certification process simpler

UNDERWRITERS LABORATORIES — Rossi said that they have sent prototypes to UL, and they are working with them to get the home unit certified for “UL approval”.

CATALYSTS — In regards to a question about the importance of the catalysts, Rossi stated that the system will not work without them.

RADIO FREQUENCY GENERATORS — He claims that the radio frequency generator allows the forces that would normally prevent the fusion process from taking place (Coulomb forces) to work for you, and not against you.

GAMMA RADIATION — The signature of the gamma radiation that has been detected is said to be 511 keV at 180 degrees.”


3 posted on 01/17/2012 8:24:36 PM PST by Kevmo (If you can define a man by the depravity of his enemies, Rick Santorum must be a noble soul indeed.)
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To: Kevmo

“prototypes” The assumption is on the reader that this is true and that they are working prototypes.

Must make Rossi warm and fuzzy inside when he can get the person to fill in the blanks to make a small light a gigantic one.


4 posted on 01/17/2012 8:30:50 PM PST by dila813
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To: Kevmo

This thing is for real and I hope I can be one of the first to buy one.


5 posted on 01/17/2012 8:41:30 PM PST by SpringtoLiberty (Liberty is on the march!)
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To: Kevmo
then, yes, all bets are off and I’m with the guys who think that Rossi is an idiot and they are all geniuses.

Welcome to Mensa!.

6 posted on 01/17/2012 8:52:49 PM PST by BipolarBob (I don't mind you shooting at me, Frank, but take it easy on the Bacardi!)
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To: Kevmo

National Instruments: global leader in measurment and control

Underwriters Labs: premier testing and standards organization in the US

Obviously, further proof that Rossi is nothing but a scammer and fraudster /sarc

Great news!


7 posted on 01/17/2012 9:02:23 PM PST by bigbob
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To: Kevmo

You know, the only thing I see that’s odd is why is Rossi talking about selling the home unit so cheap? First rule of marketing is that prices should be based on value, relative to the next-best alternative. If we’re used to paying, say $50 a month for heat now, he ought to be able to get more than $10 a month for a home ECAT.


8 posted on 01/17/2012 9:12:20 PM PST by bigbob
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To: Kevmo

Millions are going to be built by the end of the year...somehow...in automated factories....somewhere...an will power heat punps...somehow...somewhere.


9 posted on 01/17/2012 9:43:00 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: bigbob

Value pricing works when the competition is sluggish. In this development, competition will be fierce and swift.


10 posted on 01/17/2012 9:53:22 PM PST by Kevmo (If you can define a man by the depravity of his enemies, Rick Santorum must be a noble soul indeed.)
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To: Kevmo; bigbob

Besides, initial units will end up closer to $1000 than $500 due to mandated safety features and the governments where they are sold will slap a tax on the cartridges equal to the lost tax on BTUs they can produce as they replace the nat gas, coal, or electric taxes the consumer was previously paying. Taxes included, the cartridges will cost $200 instead of $10. Remember, carbon taxes aren’t really about pollution, they are about diverting money from wealthy nations to poor nations.


11 posted on 01/17/2012 10:16:06 PM PST by Kellis91789 (The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.)
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To: Kellis91789

That’s here in the USA. Other countries won’t be so quick to slap on taxes for BTUs that were never there in the first place.


12 posted on 01/17/2012 10:21:20 PM PST by Kevmo (If you can define a man by the depravity of his enemies, Rick Santorum must be a noble soul indeed.)
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To: Kevmo

Where have all the seagulls gone to?


13 posted on 01/17/2012 10:35:51 PM PST by B4Ranch (Allowing Islam into America is akin to injecting yourself with AIDS to prove how tolerant you are..)
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To: B4Ranch

They always show up, don’t worry. Soon we will be inundated by the pleasant sound of their beautiful chorus of ... cacophany.


14 posted on 01/18/2012 4:03:46 AM PST by Kevmo (If you can define a man by the depravity of his enemies, Rick Santorum must be a noble soul indeed.)
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To: bigbob
National Instruments: global leader in measurment and control

Underwriters Labs: premier testing and standards organization in the US

Obviously, further proof that Rossi is nothing but a scammer and fraudster /sarc

Notice how much of this is nothing more than "Rossi says".

N.I. acknowledged that Rossi had approached them about buying some equipment. That's all. If their agreement with Rossi is anything like the University of Bologna's agreement with Rossi, it means nothing. Rossi has demonstrated that he will create contracts for the appearance of legitimacy when he has no intention of going through with it.

And, as far as U.L. is concerned, I haven't seen any signs of U.L acknowledging this. This is, just like every other aspect of this story, based on nothing more than Rossi's unsubstantiated claims.

Once you remove the "Rossi says" parts of the story, there's no story left.

15 posted on 01/18/2012 6:30:48 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: B4Ranch
Where have all the seagulls gone to?

Photobucket

We are here watching, but seeing nothing worthy of our poop. "Rossi says..." "Rossi says..." "Rossi says..."

Same ole crap is not even interesting anymore, and not worthy of comment.
16 posted on 01/18/2012 6:37:21 AM PST by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 !)
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To: Kevmo

Well, if it’s a scam, at least it will be a safe scam..............


17 posted on 01/18/2012 6:37:26 AM PST by Red Badger (If you are unemployed long enough, you are no longer unemployed.)
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To: Kevmo

Ok, this is neat.


18 posted on 01/18/2012 6:40:11 AM PST by Lazamataz (Every single decision Obama makes is to harm America.)
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To: Kellis91789
"Besides, initial units will end up closer to $1000 than $500 due to mandated safety features and the governments where they are sold will slap a tax on the cartridges equal to the lost tax on BTUs they can produce as they replace the nat gas, coal, or electric taxes the consumer was previously paying. Taxes included, the cartridges will cost $200 instead of $10. Remember, carbon taxes aren’t really about pollution, they are about diverting money from wealthy nations to poor nations.

I dunno. Remember, this will be replacing carbon fuels. It would be hard to justify putting a tax on e-cats and subsidizing solar, wind, and the rest of the "carbon reduction" technologies at the same time. Who knows, they might even subsidize e-cats instead. Logically (but what politicians are ever logical?), it could go either way.

19 posted on 01/18/2012 7:12:10 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Kevmo

This is exciting stuff about refining the design of the device utilizing the expertise of the UL and the instrumentation specialists. Looks like we may be getting close to a commercial product(s)!

As always, I am awaiting confirmation but it is getting more difficult to see this whole Rossi thing as anything other than a legitimate effort to birth a new technology via the small scale commercial route. As opposed to the egghead university route or the huge corporation route. Although there was the possibility of partnering with Home Depot which would be a logical thing to do.


20 posted on 01/18/2012 7:27:00 AM PST by citizen (Conservatives, we must choose: Do you want to beat Romney more than Obama? IMHO, we can't do both.)
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To: Johnny B.

>>...I haven’t seen any signs of U.L acknowledging this...<<

I wonder if the U.L. will respond to an inquiry as to whether they have/will receive his device(s) for assessment? I’d settle for a monosyllabic “Yes” or “No” to that inquiry.

If “yes”, then false/true verification from the U.L is inevitable. If “No”, then it’s a flat-out lie and there’s no reason not to presume the whole thing is a scam.

Hopefully, someone will make that inquiry and we will know one way or the other soon. I’d love for it to be fully legit, but my expectations remain quite low due to the historic constant of, “if it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn’t”.


21 posted on 01/18/2012 7:36:21 AM PST by jaydee770
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To: jaydee770
I wonder if the U.L. will respond to an inquiry as to whether they have/will receive his device(s) for assessment? I’d settle for a monosyllabic “Yes” or “No” to that inquiry.
I'm sure they wouldn't release that information without the approval of the customer. Of course, if Rossi is legitimate, he would have no trouble giving that approval. But, I'm not holding my breath.

My father spent 25 years getting U.L. listing for all sorts of products. If he were still alive, I'd ask him to make a few calls.

I do have the contact info for the (retired) U.L. Engineer he worked with most often (they were good friends), but I'm hesitant to ask him to investigate this on my behalf. Even if he provided me with useful information, I seriously doubt that he would allow me to publicize it "on the record" (since that would be a violation of company policies), and I'm not going to resort to anonymous claims, as Rossi and his fanboys do all the time.

Just for the record: U.L. doesn't care whether a product performs as advertised. They only care about the safety of the device. As long as you can't be hurt or killed by the device under reasonable operating conditions, it would have no particular difficulty being U.L. Listed.

U.L does require unrestricted access to the device being submitted for testing. It can be a prototype, but it must be identical in material and construction as the production version. So, to even attempt to get a Listing, Rossi would have to provide them with one or more gadgets for them to test however they saw fit. Based on everything I've seen Rossi do, he would never allow that.

22 posted on 01/18/2012 8:19:19 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: jaydee770
For that matter, Rossi claimed to have received CE Certification back in October (LINK), but as far as I've seen, there is no independent evidence to support that claim, either.

Just another "Rossi says".

23 posted on 01/18/2012 8:41:52 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Red Badger

if it’s a scam, bet on Obama and Friend “investing” tons of taxpayer cash on it right before it all blows up.

if it’s not a scam, bet on him blocking it faster than a Keystone pipeline.


24 posted on 01/18/2012 12:22:39 PM PST by WOBBLY BOB (Congress: Looting the future to bribe the present.)
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To: bigbob
Presumably if you have something that costs only $10 available to replace something costing $189 a month (winter average heating costs in the Mid Atlantic) , the demand will be INCREDIBLE ~ and if production can be ramped up to meet it, the price of the alternatives (essentially "coal" burned in power plants in the South, and oil in the North) will CRASH.

Welfare costs for displaced employees formerly involved in the oil, coal and power production and distribution industries could be sufficient to make it difficult for employed folks to pay the taxes to support them.

Rossi's device could very well be OVERPRICED!

25 posted on 01/18/2012 3:06:20 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: WOBBLY BOB; Red Badger
Going back over the traces Obama's friends in Energy Department have been shoveling $90 million per year to Rossi's friends in Rossi's former personally owned company ~
26 posted on 01/18/2012 3:08:49 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Johnny B.

>>...Just for the record: U.L. doesn’t care whether a product performs as advertised. They only care about the safety of the device...<<

Well that’s disappointing.


27 posted on 01/18/2012 5:03:24 PM PST by jaydee770
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To: Kellis91789
Remember, carbon taxes aren’t really about pollution, they are about diverting money from wealthy nations to poor nations.

This could revolutionize the economy because of cheap energy. They would be smart to leave it alone and let taxes come out from increased production and commerce. This should also be able to be used for autos, trucks, ships etc. reducing the cost of transporting the items produced. Everything should become more affordable for the average person and low income countries should benefit greatly as well, providing of course that this is real and the government keeps it's filthy, squelching hands off of the thing.

28 posted on 01/18/2012 5:51:08 PM PST by Bellflower
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To: Kevmo

You mean like all of Europe that has fuel taxes 200% of the cost of the untaxed fuel ?


29 posted on 01/18/2012 10:08:06 PM PST by Kellis91789 (The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.)
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To: Kellis91789

No, I was thinking more like African nations. Dirt poor, no oil to sell, not enough fresh water but plenty of seawater to desalinate and get some crops going.


30 posted on 01/18/2012 10:14:12 PM PST by Kevmo (If you can define a man by the depravity of his enemies, Rick Santorum must be a noble soul indeed.)
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To: Bellflower

If you believe government is about doing what’s best for its citizens, then sure. If the goal of government is to keep people in their place, then disruptive technologies are ‘dangerous’ and to be avoided. The mere fact that nuclear reactions occur gives the NRC and their equivalent in other countries a greenlight to establish whatever costly oversight they want — paid for by taxing the product so energy is (coincidentally) not much cheaper than other sources.


31 posted on 01/18/2012 10:19:34 PM PST by Kellis91789 (The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.)
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To: Kevmo

Which is what I meant about taxing the crap out of the eCat in wealthy nations to redistribute to poor nations. The eCat could be cheap there and expensive here, right ?


32 posted on 01/18/2012 10:23:22 PM PST by Kellis91789 (The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.)
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To: Kellis91789

Well, there’s always the smuggling option. ;-) In America’s history, this has been a major source of revenue.


33 posted on 01/18/2012 10:32:09 PM PST by Kevmo (If you can define a man by the depravity of his enemies, Rick Santorum must be a noble soul indeed.)
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To: Kevmo; dangerdoc; citizen; Liberty1970; Red Badger; Wonder Warthog; PA Engineer; glock rocks; ...
Kevmo said (ad nauseam):
7) and convinced his former partners to set up another company called Ampenergo to pretend that they had a contract for The Americas for a substantial sum ----- or that they just did this with no proof because they have worked with Rossi and trust him because he’s such a fine fellow,
For your information, Ampenergo no longer exists:

Business record for Ampenergo

It apparently served it's purpose (to provide some phony credibility for Rossi's scam) and has now outlived its usefulness.

You'll probably want to update your rant to include this new information.

34 posted on 01/23/2012 4:04:57 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Kevmo; dangerdoc; citizen; Liberty1970; Red Badger; Wonder Warthog; PA Engineer; glock rocks; ...
Kevmo said (ad nauseam):
7) and convinced his former partners to set up another company called Ampenergo to pretend that they had a contract for The Americas for a substantial sum ----- or that they just did this with no proof because they have worked with Rossi and trust him because he’s such a fine fellow,
For your information, Ampenergo no longer exists:

Business record for Ampenergo

It apparently served it's purpose (to provide some phony credibility for Rossi's scam) and has now outlived its usefulness.

You'll probably want to update your rant to include this new information.

35 posted on 01/23/2012 4:06:06 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.

Thanks for the ping.

That company, Ampenergo, was registered in an office building, sharing its space with a mortgage company, insurance company, and other non-manufacturing businesses. Where is the production of the eCat allegedly taking place?

It looks like the scam is starting to unravel. I guess there’s a limit to how long someone can keep stringing people along before they become suspicious. Even the fanboys would have a couple of doubts after a while.


36 posted on 01/23/2012 5:33:47 AM PST by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: exDemMom
Where is the production of the eCat allegedly taking place?
Just last week, Rossi did a video interview (with "The Most Gullible Man In The World (tm)", Sterling D. Allan) where he claimed to be building a robotic factory in Florida. No evidence has been presented, of course.

It does seem that his lies are starting to catch up with him. We'll see how long the pathological believers hang on as Rossi continues to produce nothing but grandiose claims on his blog.

37 posted on 01/23/2012 5:46:33 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.

• Here’s my standard ‘ignore’ post to Johnny B.
This will be my standard post to you that says you’re not worth trying to have reasonable discussion, also says “buzz off” & doesn’t leave crickets. You’ve proven you’re just here to harass; you have demonstrated that you are not here to discuss things on a level that Free Republic intended.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2832338/posts?page=51#51


38 posted on 01/23/2012 7:05:33 PM PST by Kevmo (If you can define a man by the depravity of his enemies, Rick Santorum must be a noble soul indeed.)
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