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Native Americans actually came from a tiny mountain region in Siberia, DNA research reveals
Daily Mail ^ | 26 Jan 2012 | Rob Waugh

Posted on 01/27/2012 8:32:48 AM PST by Theoria

Altai in southern Siberia sits right at the centre of Russia. But the tiny, mountainous republic has a claim to fame unknown until now - Native Americans can trace their origins to the remote region.

DNA research revealed that genetic markers linking people living in the Russian republic of Altai, southern Siberia, with indigenous populations in North America.

A study of the mutations indicated a lineage shift between 13,000 and 14,000 years ago - when people are thought to have walked across the ice from Russia to America.

This roughly coincides with the period when humans from Siberia are thought to have crossed what is now the Bering strait and entered America.

'Altai is a key area because it's a place where people have been coming and going for thousands and thousands of years,' said Dr Theodore Schurr, from the University of Pennsylvania in the US.

Among the people who may have emerged from the Altai region are the predecessors of the first Native Americans.

Roughly 20-25,000 years ago, these prehistoric humans carried their Asian genetic lineages up into the far reaches of Siberia and eventually across the then-exposed Bering land mass into the Americas.

'Our goal in working in this area was to better define what those founding lineages or sister lineages are to Native American populations,' Schurr said.

The region lies at the intersection of what is now Russia, Mongolia, China and Kazakhstan.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: altai; china; clovis; dna; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; kazakhstan; mongolia; nativeamericans; russia; siberia; yakut
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1 posted on 01/27/2012 8:33:00 AM PST by Theoria
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To: Godzilla; ejonesie22

Oh noez


2 posted on 01/27/2012 8:35:25 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: SunkenCiv
Walk, ping. Perhaps we could get a comparison with Picard.
3 posted on 01/27/2012 8:35:25 AM PST by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: Theoria
The Altai region is probably the ancestral home to vast numbers of Chinese and Japanese, Philippinos, Polynesians, Eskimo, etc.

This is not news.

4 posted on 01/27/2012 8:36:25 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: Theoria

Ohhhhh I get it now

We really stole our land from the RUSSIANS, not the “Native Ameicans”

Let’s be sure to rewrite history accordingly and also change the public school books


5 posted on 01/27/2012 8:36:41 AM PST by A_Former_Democrat (MERRY CHRISTMAS to the ACLU)
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To: muawiyah

Yep. It’s probably, also one of the origins of our dogs. Kinda makes sense.


6 posted on 01/27/2012 8:40:19 AM PST by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: Theoria
A community of the Altaians; color photograph by S. I. Borisov, c. 1908.


7 posted on 01/27/2012 8:42:20 AM PST by Godebert (NO PERSON EXCEPT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN!)
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To: Theoria

Ah, further evidence that the Book of Mormon is a complete fraud in claiming that American Indians were Jews...

... not that any additional evidence was needed.


8 posted on 01/27/2012 8:44:21 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Proud RINOmney Denialist since 2007!)
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To: muawiyah
I always take these definitive declarations with a grain of salt because they fail to account for the fact that ancient peoples have been migrating in every direction for thousands of years.

Of course, that would include the Altai region, along with others. The Siouxian ancestry in my family line came to the Dakotas and Rocky Mountain states from the Ohio Valley shortly after the turn of the last millennium. Before that, they were in what is now Virginia and the James River area. Before that is anybody's guess.

From what I have seen of DNA testing, it is highly accurate for a few hundred years, maybe a little more. After that, events which brought about cultural blending inject so many additional variables into the mix that the line between science and speculation becomes rather blurred. Just look up Kennewick man as one example.

9 posted on 01/27/2012 8:50:24 AM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Theoria

That is very cool.


10 posted on 01/27/2012 8:50:30 AM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: Theoria

Disinformation. Growing evidence shows that the first Americans came from Europe, long before there was a passable land bridge from Russia to Alaska. That their ancestors now demand the earlier remains not be studied is just more proof.


11 posted on 01/27/2012 8:51:23 AM PST by pabianice (")
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To: Theoria

One tiny little point: they weren’t “indigenous” when they got here and replaced the indigenous population.


12 posted on 01/27/2012 8:52:12 AM PST by SuzyQue (Don't believe everything you think.)
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To: Godebert

They have a tepee


13 posted on 01/27/2012 8:52:32 AM PST by SMARTY ("The man who has no inner-life is a slave to his surroundings. "Henri Frederic Amiel)
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To: Theoria

“Altaic” is used as the name of a language family which includes Turkish, Mongolian, and other languages...but not the languages of the native peoples of North America and South America.


14 posted on 01/27/2012 8:53:14 AM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: SuzyQue

There is growing evidence that there were “indigenous” peoples here who decended from the european Solutrian migration from the end of the last ice age (30-50K years ago). The Siberian immigrants overtook the fewer decendents of the early migration and in some cases intermarried but they pushed out the existing population that preceded them nonetheless. That is exactly the reason why they demand that any studies of remains earlier than 15K years ago be squashed. They were the real first invaders.


15 posted on 01/27/2012 9:06:41 AM PST by RJS1950 (The democrats are the "enemies foreign and domestic" cited in the federal oath)
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To: Tennessee Nana

Oh geez! I wish these people would get over themselves already. Why assume that every other continent in the world had people except this one?


16 posted on 01/27/2012 9:14:35 AM PST by MestaMachine (obama kills)
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To: SuzyQue

Indeed—They should more appropriately be referred to as Native Russians, or something like that.


17 posted on 01/27/2012 9:18:51 AM PST by Arm_Bears (Journalists first; then lawyers.)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Stretch of the day


18 posted on 01/27/2012 9:20:01 AM PST by stuartcr ("In this election year of 12, how deep into their closets will we delve?")
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To: RJS1950

are they worried that they’ll lose the exclusive right to operate casinos if they lose the ‘first one here’ status?


19 posted on 01/27/2012 9:21:15 AM PST by RitchieAprile
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To: stuartcr

“Stretch of the day”

Actually, factually, the BOM is totally bogus. No stretch required.


20 posted on 01/27/2012 9:26:52 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Proud RINOmney Denialist since 2007!)
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To: Theoria

And, here we sit with little asian nations throughout our own nation. My ancestors probably belonged to a tribe at sometime. I think it was the KEEPTHEMAWAYFROMYOURWOMEN tribe. Our family has a long tradition of leaving town just ahead of the mobs the royals stirred up when they caught a family member in the sack with a queen or princess. Kowabunga!


21 posted on 01/27/2012 9:29:10 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: RitchieAprile

They worry that they will lose their “special” status as individual “nations”, which is all PC BS anyway. Various tribes overran and wiped out other tribes long before Europeans came. They were defeated by a stronger tribe; too bad and so sad </sarcasm>.


22 posted on 01/27/2012 9:31:15 AM PST by RJS1950 (The democrats are the "enemies foreign and domestic" cited in the federal oath)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

The stretch was getting it into a thread about Native Americans. Well done


23 posted on 01/27/2012 9:54:03 AM PST by stuartcr ("In this election year of 12, how deep into their closets will we delve?")
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To: stuartcr

No stretch. This article provides evidence that refutes the basis for the mormonic claim that Jesus Christ visited the Americas to go to [Jewish] sheep He had there. A huge unfounded claim, as evidenced [repeatedly] by DNA - including this article.


24 posted on 01/27/2012 10:00:16 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Proud RINOmney Denialist since 2007!)
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To: pabianice
That their ancestors now demand the earlier remains not be studied is just more proof.

Wouldn't that be lack of proof if you don't have something to study?

25 posted on 01/27/2012 10:13:40 AM PST by Sawdring
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Sure, no problem


26 posted on 01/27/2012 10:19:26 AM PST by stuartcr ("In this election year of 12, how deep into their closets will we delve?")
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To: MestaMachine; Theoria

Exactly-every archaelogical find shows that people have always been curious enough about what is “over there”, and whether it might be profitable to trade there to slap together a raft/boat, pack up some stuff to trade, hoist a sail, if they had one, pick up some paddles, launch the boat and go check it out.

It wouldn’t make sense to totally exterminate each other, either-the Bible and other accounts of what went on then certainly show that people fought over just about everything, but I’m betting they also loved the profit from trade. And men have always been interested in mating with foreign women, even if the Greeks and Romans were the first to make it a trademark of their macho-conqueror lifestyle-I doubt people were any different before they knew how to write stuff down.

I’m Hispanic-like most, my ancestors were Native American, from what is now Mexico and the southwest, and people who came there some 3 or 4 hundred years ago from Spain. It doesn’t matter whether they were mongoloid, caucasoid, a mix of the two or something else altogether-we are all so mixed up that no one really knows who was here 15-20 thousand years ago or where they came from-they were likely mongrels, too. I’ve been to see those statues the Olmecs in Mexico made way back when-if those are not images of African people, I’ve never seen one-so where did THAT come from if the “Natives” were only from Mongolia? All humans = itchy feet for unknown places, in my opinion...


27 posted on 01/27/2012 11:29:10 AM PST by Texan5 ("You've got to saddle up your boys, you've got to draw a hard line"...)
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To: Theoria

Now it makes sense, so thats were Chief Borat got his name.


28 posted on 01/27/2012 11:40:32 AM PST by gusty
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To: Theoria

What a bunch of bunk.

What about the many Indian tribes in existence today without outside fertilization throughout Central America to the very tip of South America boarding the South pole.

Don’t feed me that crap.

I was born at noon and not a midnight.


29 posted on 01/27/2012 12:02:04 PM PST by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer) (Y)
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To: RJS1950

It is BS. If they are individual nations, then they shouldn’t be allowed to vote in our elections. I mean, we don’t let Mexicans vote in our elections, do we? Oh, wait...


30 posted on 01/27/2012 1:00:30 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: GatĂșn(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)

I do believe you are correct-I’ve read about (and seen on some NatGeo and History channel shows) archaelogical and DNA evidence supporting that the ancestors of many of those tribes in Central and South America came by sea from their homes in what is now Europe, Africa and Asia right to the southern part of our continent-no land bridge, no climate change imperative-more like curiosity and an incentive to find more people to trade with for more neat stuff. Maybe that is why those Olmec ancestors went there from Africa, or how that coca and primitive tobacco got to Egypt-it was traded for some desirable goods the people from Africa brought over with them.

Similarities in the making of and designs on excavated pottery and textiles that resemble those in far places at the same time period, and trade goods from all over a more widely civilized world than anyone imagined until recently are being found in ruins of settlements and burial sites all the time.


31 posted on 01/27/2012 2:02:13 PM PST by Texan5 ("You've got to saddle up your boys, you've got to draw a hard line"...)
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To: pabianice
"long before there was a passable land bridge from Russia to Alaska. That their ancestors now demand the earlier remains not be studied is just more proof."

I don't know why nobody thinks these people had the brains to build umiats/kayaks and paddle across the straits. If the Polynesians could cross 3,000 miles of empty ocean, these Altaians could have paddled across the Bering Strait, not to mention their ability to walk across the ice in the winter.

32 posted on 01/27/2012 3:54:34 PM PST by redhead (, , , comedian)
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To: Theoria
Of much interest, especially to family historians. I will peruse more carefully when my computer allows a download to the Daily Mail.

The new break through in defining the DNA into racial groups has cause a politically correct outrage. This is the science of the HAPLOGROUP. You will likely be well aware of this. I will put a little out for those who missed the various items on it, quickly dropped like a hot potato.

Myths are about to be shattered as to ancestry. The average Egyptian male has one percent of the DNA of the Egyptian boy king- Tutankhamen. Much of his lineage lies in the Spanish male population. Seventy percent in all.

The Englishman who volunteered his DNA for Family Tree Magazine, got a surprise. His male ancestry came from where China is today. The female side from Mespotamia.

A nomadic species to be sure. Heresy and "racism" is to deny that the birth of man was in Africa. One anthopologist of thirty years study was howled out of university in the 1960'S for saying the four groups evolved separately.The press very leery of touching this subject. Kennewick Man anyone?

33 posted on 01/27/2012 4:56:21 PM PST by Peter Libra
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To: Texan5

Thank you for your comments.


34 posted on 01/28/2012 4:43:40 AM PST by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: GatĂșn(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)

You are very welcome-I’ve always been fascinated by the curiosity and ingenuity of our ancestors, especially those who had the skills (and the balls) to figure out that the same boats they used to catch fish could be rigged to be ocean going, and so to travel the whole world. I read about every new discovery with great interest.

I also think the travel and trading reach of the early empires extended much further than we give them credit for. The Romans were such meticulous keepers of the accounts of ocean voyages and the listing of trade goods on their manifests-they and the Greeks before them refer to places previously unknown in those accounts all the time, and a lot of those descriptions of places, people, and the merchandise they traded for sure sound like they were in the Americas.

Since they were trading with places as far as China on a regular basis for everything from concubines and medicinal plants to rice paper and delicacies for the tables of the well-to-do, why wouldn’t they be sailing in the opposite direction for more exotic goods to sell to the Roman Equestrian and Patrician classes all over the Empire who could afford such rare items?


35 posted on 01/28/2012 12:06:21 PM PST by Texan5 ("You've got to saddle up your boys, you've got to draw a hard line"...)
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks Theoria.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


36 posted on 01/28/2012 2:21:31 PM PST by SunkenCiv (FReep this FReepathon!)
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37 posted on 01/28/2012 2:28:05 PM PST by SunkenCiv (FReep this FReepathon!)
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To: Theoria

Thanks Theoria, that must be a hot spot, IndoEuropeans came from Central Asia as well.


38 posted on 01/28/2012 2:29:49 PM PST by SunkenCiv (FReep this FReepathon!)
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To: Theoria

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. . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:”. . . ./
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39 posted on 01/28/2012 2:57:51 PM PST by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: Theoria
It's obvious when you examine the practices of Russian yoga enthusiasts.


40 posted on 01/28/2012 3:02:01 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: Theoria

“Human populations are tightly interwoven”

How does the Toba bottleneck connect with this?


41 posted on 01/28/2012 3:30:49 PM PST by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: Theoria
Vintage Skulls


42 posted on 01/28/2012 4:10:16 PM PST by blam
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To: SunkenCiv
There's recent talk about these fellows (Strangers In A New Land) migrating into Africa and becoming Modern Humans.

Modern Humans may have their origins in Central Asia.

43 posted on 01/28/2012 4:15:05 PM PST by blam
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To: SunkenCiv
Native American of European ancestry:


44 posted on 01/28/2012 4:42:57 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: Theoria

Very cool.


45 posted on 01/28/2012 6:14:54 PM PST by FrdmLvr (culture, language, borders)
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To: SunkenCiv

Some are more tightly interwoven than others.

http://blog.capertravelindia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Orchha-Khajuraho185kms-5hrs.jpg


46 posted on 01/28/2012 6:22:29 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: Texan5

When I studied anthropology and archaeology 20 years ago, we were taught that there were three basic human bone structures and that they were Caucasian, Asian, and African. We were told that the human specimens found might not be perfect examples of one or the other but they could all fall under the three categories.

And if we aren’t too politically correct, visually, most people do too, with definite mixing all around.

I think there may be some truth to the people here previous to the european last wave (a lot of us) having an Asian bone structure and looks. The Indian / native American often has straight black hair, mid brown skin, almond eyes.

If Asians traveled here and took over a previously European people, it would explain the differences between the looks of native Americans and today’s Asians.

I find it all so fascinating.


47 posted on 01/28/2012 6:36:56 PM PST by Yaelle
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To: Yaelle

One of my cousins is married to an archaeologist who is a paleo-indian expert. He worked at Museo Archaeologico de Mexico for many years before taking a job stateside at a university.

He supervised a lot of neat digs at sites in Mexico, and always invited us to visit them-since my family is Hispanic, I found it particularly fascinating, and have ever since.

He was talking about the politically incorrect theory of well-traveled far ancestors who sailed, traded and mated all over the world long before any land bridges or empires came to be. Many of his collegues thought he was nuts-he is laughing his ass off now every time he is vindicated.


48 posted on 01/28/2012 8:21:01 PM PST by Texan5 ("You've got to saddle up your boys, you've got to draw a hard line"...)
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To: A_Former_Democrat

They are not Russians. Russians are Slavs. These people are another ethnic group whose territory was seized under the Czars.


49 posted on 01/28/2012 8:45:04 PM PST by ZULU (LIBERATE HAGIA SOPHIA!!!!!)
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To: Vigilanteman

Thanks for adding some common sense to the discussion! People can get over zealous when they think they know something.


50 posted on 01/28/2012 9:02:53 PM PST by Bellflower (The LORD is Holy, separated from all sin, perfect, righteous, high and lifted up.)
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