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MI5 files: Was Chaplin really a Frenchman and called Thornstein?
The Telegraph ^ | 17 Feb 2012 | Tom Whitehead

Posted on 02/17/2012 2:13:51 PM PST by Focault's Pendulum

MI5 investigated whether Charlie Chaplin was actually a Frenchman called Israel Thornstein, previously secret files on the Hollywood film star have revealed.

Intelligence officers could find no trace of the actor's birth in Britain despite Chaplin always claiming he was born in London in 1889.

The mystery surrounding his origins emerged when the US authorities asked MI5 to look into the comic actor's background after he left America in 1952 under a cloud of suspicion over his communist links.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Conspiracy; Miscellaneous; TV/Movies; Weird Stuff
KEYWORDS: chaplin; charliechaplin; french; silentmovie

1 posted on 02/17/2012 2:14:04 PM PST by Focault's Pendulum
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To: Focault's Pendulum

A French Jew. Explains his communism.


2 posted on 02/17/2012 2:24:16 PM PST by Beowulf9
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To: Focault's Pendulum

Sacre bleu!


3 posted on 02/17/2012 2:25:25 PM PST by Fiji Hill
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To: Focault's Pendulum
Great story, thanks for pointing it out. My recollection is that Charlie Chaplain never admitted or denied that he was Jewish. In the movie "the Great Dictator" Charlie explicitly played the role of a barber in a Jewish Ghetto. A lot of people regarded it as a sort of tacit admission, and of course the Nazis saw it that way.

Whatever was his true origin story, Charlie was a wonderful entertainer and a great comedian. If he was Jewish, then he is one more among many of the Great Jewish comedians of America. The Marx Brothers, the Three Stooges, Jack Benny, Danny Kaye, Don Rickles, Ed Wynn, George Burns, Milton Berle and others.

Interesting that he felt the need to hide it though. I guess the times were more difficult during that era.

4 posted on 02/17/2012 2:30:21 PM PST by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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5 posted on 02/17/2012 2:38:41 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are here! What will you do?)
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To: DiogenesLamp

Charles Chaplin was neither a Jew, a Frenchman or a member of the Communist party. He was born to two lower-class English music hall entertainers, Charles and Hannah Chaplin and had an older brother, Sydney. He was in and out of London poorhouses as a child. He has a distinct Cockney accent in all of his talkies.

When he was quite young, he and his brother were members of the famous Karno Group, which included Stan Laurel. When they toured America, Chaplin, Laurel and Sydney Chaplin chose to remain in America.

Charlie was way too cheap to pay the dues necessary to be a member of the Communist party.


6 posted on 02/17/2012 2:41:09 PM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: Beowulf9
A French Jew. Explains his communism.

Not necessarily. The great French scholar Raymond Aron, author of L'Opium des intellectuels [The Opium of the Intellectuals] ( Paris: Calmann-Lévy, 1955), a critically acclaimed and influential critique of Marxism and Marxists, was a Jew.

7 posted on 02/17/2012 2:43:54 PM PST by Fiji Hill
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To: Focault's Pendulum
"We're gonna take you back, to the year 1939 when Charlie Chaplin and his Nazi regime enslaved Europe and tried to take over the world..."

"But then an even greater force emerged, the UN"

"....And the UN UN-nazied the world...Forever!"

8 posted on 02/17/2012 2:46:07 PM PST by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: miss marmelstein
Charles Chaplin was neither a Jew, a Frenchman or a member of the Communist party. He was born to two lower-class English music hall entertainers, Charles and Hannah Chaplin and had an older brother, Sydney. He was in and out of London poorhouses as a child. He has a distinct Cockney accent in all of his talkies.

I knew he had an older brother, i've seen him in several of his movies. As far as his accent goes, that can be contrived. (He made two talking movies of which I am aware. "Limelight" and "The Great Dictator." (I own a copy of each.) I would point out that Hugh Laurie does an awesome job playing the role of an obnoxious American Jerk, and Anna Torv does an excellent job as an American FBI agent. I would say we would need something better than his accent as proof. So are you saying the story is incorrect?

When he was quite young, he and his brother were members of the famous Karno Group, which included Stan Laurel. When they toured America, Chaplin, Laurel and Sydney Chaplin chose to remain in America.

I recall reading in Groucho Marx's book "Groucho and Me", that He (Julius Henry Marx) ran across Charlie Chaplain on the Vaudeville circuit, and was quite impressed with him.

Charlie was way too cheap to pay the dues necessary to be a member of the Communist party.

Back in those days, Communism was not known to be the terror that we have since learned that it is. In those naive halcyon times, people actually saw it as an evolutionary improvement on the state of mankind, much as they saw the creation of the American Republic as a welcome break from the stagnant ideas of the past. (Monarchy.)

I can't blame a person for being a communist sympathizer in the 1920s and 1930s, but by the time the 50s rolled around, those people should have understood it to be the essence of pure evil.

While i'm a fan of Charlie Chaplain, I am not that knowledgeable about his history, though I had read of speculation as to whether or not he was Jewish. It doesn't matter to me worth a hill of beans if he is, (or not) he was a great comedian, and the world is a better place for his having been in it.

9 posted on 02/17/2012 3:07:22 PM PST by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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To: Focault's Pendulum
How much can we rely on the fact that British Intelligence was "unimpressed by Washington's claims of communist links?" They go back to a time when that agency was infiltrated at its highest levels by Stalin's "Cambridge Five." This ring of spies actually running large parts of British Intelligence included Philby, Maclean & Burgess.

Britain's political leaders were so bamboozled that their Foreign Secy personally attested to Philby's loyalty - years after Maclean and Burgess had fled into hiding (to later defect to the USSR) - allowing Philby to survive for years before imminent detection also caused him to also defect to the USSR.

"Victim of McCarthyism?" McCarthy may have been a flawed messenger, but his messenger was vindicated by history.

10 posted on 02/17/2012 3:35:20 PM PST by drpix
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To: Focault's Pendulum
CORRECTION:

his messenger was vindicated by history =

his message was vindicated by history

11 posted on 02/17/2012 3:38:34 PM PST by drpix
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To: drpix
The Cambridge Five was a ring of spies, recruited in part by Russian talent spotter Arnold Deutsch in the United Kingdom, who passed information to the Soviet Union during World War II and at least into the early 1950s. Four members of the ring have been identified:
Kim Philby (cryptonym: Stanley),
Donald Duart Maclean (cryptonym: Homer),
Guy Burgess (cryptonym: Hicks)
and Anthony Blunt (cryptonym: Johnson);
jointly they are known as the Cambridge Four.

Several people have been suspected of being the "fifth man" of the group; John Cairncross (cryptonym: Liszt) was identified as such by Oleg Gordievsky

Cairncross eventually confesed as did Blunt, however long after his retirement.

There were more than just the identified five in this ring, probably eight maybe as much as ten.

One special note:

John LaCarre's novel Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy was very loosely based not only on This espionage ring, but the author was the first person to use the term "mole ".

12 posted on 02/17/2012 3:53:20 PM PST by Focault's Pendulum (If Obama was any more thin skinned, he'd have a receptacle end: Dennis Miller)
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To: Focault's Pendulum

Chaplin’s autobiography makes it extremely believable that he spent his earliest years in London.


13 posted on 02/17/2012 3:56:51 PM PST by wideminded
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To: Focault's Pendulum
Neither his nationality nor his religion mean a thing.The fact that he was filthy Communist means a LOT!
14 posted on 02/17/2012 6:14:08 PM PST by Gay State Conservative (Massachusetts...proud home of *two* of Obama's illegal alien relatives!)
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To: DiogenesLamp

Chaplin also made “Monsieur Verdoux” in the 1950s. He did speak with a distinct English accent that sounds very grounded to me. Modern actors like Hugh Laurie are much better trained in doing American accents. Nothing like the old time actors who didn’t travel as much and had very little need to acquire the ability to do foreign accent. Ms. Streep would have been a complete failure, LOL!

So, indeed, he was an Englishman but for some reason the Jewish thing was always rumored. I, too, could care less, but I simply do not think he was a Jew.

His politics came out of his horrible childhood of poverty and insanity (his mother was institutionalized partly because of malnutrition).

I believe it was Groucho Marx’s son, Arthur, who wrote all the books about Grouch. They are a lot of fun.


15 posted on 02/18/2012 3:11:51 AM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: miss marmelstein
Chaplin also made “Monsieur Verdoux” in the 1950s. He did speak with a distinct English accent that sounds very grounded to me. Modern actors like Hugh Laurie are much better trained in doing American accents. Nothing like the old time actors who didn’t travel as much and had very little need to acquire the ability to do foreign accent. Ms. Streep would have been a complete failure, LOL!

I did not know that he had made another "talkie." Thanks for letting me know about this!

So, indeed, he was an Englishman but for some reason the Jewish thing was always rumored. I, too, could care less, but I simply do not think he was a Jew.

Who can say when the rumors started? Perhaps it was after his movie "the Great Dictator" that people started speculating? As I said, that would be the Nazi response to the movie, and they were quite good at spreading propaganda.

His politics came out of his horrible childhood of poverty and insanity (his mother was institutionalized partly because of malnutrition).

Life was really hard back then. His movies with Jackie Coogan were not really that far outside of their reality.

I believe it was Groucho Marx’s son, Arthur, who wrote all the books about Grouch. They are a lot of fun.

I have only read the one book, and I didn't know it was written by his son. It was certainly entertaining. I still quote bits and pieces of it from time to time. :)

I am aware of the existence of another book called "Harpo Speaks." Have you read it? If you are a fan, you know he could speak just fine, but it was part of his shtick to pretend to be mute. I saw an interview with his son in which he described his father as having a serious Yiddish\Brooklyn accent. He couldn't shake it, and that's why they told him it would be best if he didn't talk. :)

Harpo's real name was Adolph, and given the time period you can understand why he didn't use it. :)

16 posted on 02/18/2012 2:37:47 PM PST by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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To: miss marmelstein
Oh, by the way, I think I read sometime last year that they discovered a heretofore forgotten Charlie Chaplin movie. All I can remember is it was something about Dirigibles.

Internet to the rescue. Here it is!

http://www.historytoday.com/blog/2011/06/first-world-war-propaganda-film-starring-charlie-chaplin-sale

17 posted on 02/18/2012 2:41:07 PM PST by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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To: DiogenesLamp

If you can find a copy of Harpo Speaks, you should get it. It’s one of the best books about the brothers but also a remarkable document of its time. He was a member of the Algonquin Group in NYC, part of Hollywood royalty, and was one of the first Americans to go to Russia in the 1930s. That chapter alone is worth the price of the book. For many years, I lived near their old tenement in the 90s on the East Side.

I believe there is some video available of Harpo talking. I never watched it, though.


18 posted on 02/19/2012 3:56:03 AM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: miss marmelstein
If you can find a copy of Harpo Speaks, you should get it. It’s one of the best books about the brothers but also a remarkable document of its time. He was a member of the Algonquin Group in NYC, part of Hollywood royalty, and was one of the first Americans to go to Russia in the 1930s. That chapter alone is worth the price of the book. For many years, I lived near their old tenement in the 90s on the East Side.

I've been meaning to get a copy for quite some time. I'll have to make more efforts for it.

I believe there is some video available of Harpo talking. I never watched it, though.

After you told me that, I went to Youtube and found it. Harpo had a wonderful speaking voice! I don't understand what his son meant when he said he had a thick accent. His enunciation is perfect.

19 posted on 02/19/2012 5:43:50 PM PST by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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To: DiogenesLamp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19prL2ue4pk

Harpo speaks


20 posted on 02/19/2012 6:18:06 PM PST by PapaBear3625 (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell)
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To: Focault's Pendulum

Never mind Chaplin, maybe MI5 can fill us in on who the usurper in the whitey hut is.


21 posted on 02/19/2012 7:26:29 PM PST by The Sons of Liberty (Psalm 109:8 Let his days be few and let another take his office. - Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin)
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To: Focault's Pendulum; a fool in paradise

No, actually, Israel Thornstein was Elvis Presley’s manager “Colonel” Tom Parker.


22 posted on 02/19/2012 7:30:54 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: PapaBear3625
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19prL2ue4pk

Harpo speaks

That is the very video I watched. (Listened to. :) )

23 posted on 02/20/2012 6:23:07 AM PST by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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To: DiogenesLamp

Go to Amazon and put in for “Harpo Speaks.” They are selling used copies for as low as $5 (and maybe even lower, I didn’t search that hard). It’s a really fun book and considered the best of all the Marx Brother histories.

Yeah, I always thought Harpo would talk just like Groucho. New Yorkese. I know that growing up they spoke Platt Deutche - their parents were immigrants from Alsace Lorraine, I believe. It may have belonged to Germany in those days...


24 posted on 02/20/2012 7:49:03 AM PST by miss marmelstein
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