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How do I (we) counteract the success of this birth control wedge issue? (vanity)
self | self

Posted on 02/18/2012 8:42:00 AM PST by occam's chainsaw

Now that the left is successfully employing this wedge argument over insurance birth control mandates, what can we do on an individual basis to counteract it? I am suddenly seeing local boards and even my face book page being flooded with emotional posts by hysterical women who claim their uteruses (uteri?) are being attacked. They are being successfully distracted from the real issues and seem quite anxious to throw their vote away for red herrings. They have been tricked and I am trying to figure out the best way to dodge their emotional arguments and enlighten them. Some (most) of my are much better at political debate than I am. Any helpful advice?


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Health/Medicine; Religion; Society
KEYWORDS: birthcontrol; debate; herring; obamacare; votes; zerocare
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1 posted on 02/18/2012 8:42:05 AM PST by occam's chainsaw
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To: occam's chainsaw

Tell them:

“Birth control is not a right. Anyone choosing to use birth control should spend their own money on it.”

or,

“I should not be taxed to pay for someone else’s birth control.”

Keep it simple. This should not be on your dime. It is wrong to force you to pay for it.


2 posted on 02/18/2012 8:45:39 AM PST by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: occam's chainsaw
birth control ONLY wedges out liberals who want all their free stuff but don't want to pay more taxes. And those are the only people upset, and they are not needed.
3 posted on 02/18/2012 8:45:49 AM PST by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: occam's chainsaw

I always squelch such arguments by saying “I don’t see why women get the right to commit murder out of convenience and men don’t.”


4 posted on 02/18/2012 8:50:03 AM PST by GenXteacher (He that hath no stomach for this fight, let him depart!)
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To: occam's chainsaw
This is sleight of hand...obama has focused our attention on this ridiculous issue when the object is to get rid of him administration, and obamacare will go along with it...THAT will solve the problem.

Otherwise it's just being used as another pinprick to try and villify those "nasty republicans".

We need to learn to ignore his minutia and focus on the big picture...all of these problems will dwindle in importance if we get the "king" off his throne in November.
5 posted on 02/18/2012 8:51:30 AM PST by FrankR (You are only enslaved to the extent of the entitlements you receive.)
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To: occam's chainsaw

Dude - the women you describe were NEVER going to be pulling the Republican lever anyway.


6 posted on 02/18/2012 8:52:04 AM PST by rhinohunter (Not voting for RINO Romney...no way...no how)
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To: occam's chainsaw

we should be asking...”why not just throw in a requirement to pay for abortions too?”. By the left’s logic, a woman has a right to an abortion, therefore, why shouldn’t a religious organization be forced to pay for that too? ...please explain the difference!

That’s where I’d like to take the discussion...it’d separate those with no problem on the “paying for contraception” but oppose abortion and those that have no problem with either.


7 posted on 02/18/2012 8:53:26 AM PST by fuzzylogic (welfare state = sharing consequences of poor moral choices among everybody)
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To: occam's chainsaw
I reject the premise of the title. What makes you think this is a successful wedge issue?

I don't think American women are as foolish as you're implying...

8 posted on 02/18/2012 8:54:13 AM PST by sargon (I don't like the sound of these "boncentration bamps")
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To: sargon

I just agree with liberals and tell them I am pro-choice...... Then I say, and I choose life, which means you obviously choose death.

Their little, pointed heads go poof!


9 posted on 02/18/2012 8:58:52 AM PST by EQAndyBuzz (Most Conservative in the Primary, the Republican Nominee in the General.)
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To: GenXteacher

The thing you DON’T do is conflate abortion and birth control.


10 posted on 02/18/2012 9:00:36 AM PST by DManA
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To: rhinohunter
Dude - the women you describe were NEVER going to be pulling the Republican lever anyway.

Dude - the women under discussion were NEVER going to vote at all this time around until Obama got them riled up with this red herring. They're disgusted with the pretender in chief. His strategy is to get them so angry with our side that they will still vote.

11 posted on 02/18/2012 9:00:44 AM PST by Pollster1 (Natural born citizen of the USA, with the birth certificate to prove it)
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To: occam's chainsaw

I got a chuckle from a liberal after I posted on my Facebook page that I wanted to vote for a candidate who would force PETA to pay for my pastrami.

Analogy works well.


12 posted on 02/18/2012 9:00:48 AM PST by Claud
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To: occam's chainsaw

“Now that the left is successfully employing this wedge argument “

What are you talking about ?????????????


13 posted on 02/18/2012 9:01:11 AM PST by UB355 (Slower traffic keep right)
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To: Persevero
“Birth control is not a right....etc...

Disastrously wrong answer. Tell them there is no argument about contraception out there, only about the government attacking religious freedom. Explain that they have trusted sources of information who are lying to them, that no one has proposed restricting their right to buy and use birth control and no one ever will.

Tell them they should direct their anger at those who are lying to them and needlessly alarming them for political gain.

14 posted on 02/18/2012 9:02:00 AM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: occam's chainsaw

Pass along the article by Democrat Dick Morris calling out this strategy to try to blur the lines between birth control and abortion. It is pretty damning they are trying to manipulate people. People on all sides should be insulted by this.

http://www.newshounds.us/dick_morris_abc_s_george_stephanopoulos_is_a_paid_democratic_hit_man_02162012

Considering this was one of Clinton’s advisers, you can use the issue to actually turn off Clinton Democrats to Obama.


15 posted on 02/18/2012 9:03:06 AM PST by mnehring
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To: Claud

Analogy does work well.

I told a friend that if taxpayers can be forced to financially support the “rights” of other citizens, then taxpayers need to pony-up and pay for millions of rifles, tactical shotguns and handguns for citizens unable to afford such. And, in order to remain well-regulated, each citizen needs to have access to “free” ammo, likely 200-300 rounds each week.


16 posted on 02/18/2012 9:06:55 AM PST by Brent Calvert 03969-030
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To: fuzzylogic

“we should be asking...’why not just throw in a requirement to pay for abortions too?’.”

Actually, that is what the “morning after” pill does...and it is included in this mandate.


17 posted on 02/18/2012 9:09:03 AM PST by mrs. a (It's a short life but a merry one...)
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To: occam's chainsaw

I would ask questions on the comments and get them to state whatever false claim they are making, then knock it out of the park. There is no issue at hand to ‘take away contraception’. It is purely manufactured. This is low hanging fruit for our side to return the discussion to Obamacare. Whatever BS they state, bring it back to the fed govt control issues. Don’t make it about social issues or personal beliefs. That is what the left is banking on.


18 posted on 02/18/2012 9:09:29 AM PST by ilgipper (Everything you get from the government was taken from someone else)
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To: occam's chainsaw

Facebook friends are going CRAZY over this isssue. One comforting another saying this will be good for O as the “enlightened” women will be supporting him in droves.
They are up in arms about the women being refused to speak (when the hearing was about Presidential overreach) not women’s rights.
They don’t want to hear anything but what fits with their agenda.
So I continue to ruffle their feathers with my conservative perspective. Enlightened Californians VS. hick town gal...


19 posted on 02/18/2012 9:12:58 AM PST by kactus
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To: occam's chainsaw

The answer is simple. We tell the truth. We expose the lies. We stand up for strong principles and we don’t let this distract us from the important issues.


20 posted on 02/18/2012 9:15:13 AM PST by detective
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To: occam's chainsaw

There are good arguments to advance, but there has to be someone at home inside the brain in order to benefit.

Sounds like the comments you read were mostly from women who choose not to think or can’t, even if they meant to.

I would go after Obama and the Dems, straightway, and don’t bother to pass “go”.

What gives the Federal Government the power that they are claiming under Obamacare, to force others...whether religious organizations or insurance companies or whatever, to ORDER someone to pay for another’s birth control???

I would tell them the power to do so is being usurped...the Constitution does not empower this and it’s against everything America stands for and its military has fought and died for.

That a government powerful enough to force someone else to pay for your birth control, whether the someone else is a private insurance business or a religious institution who opposes it on religious grounds, is powerful enough to inspect your child’s sack lunch at school and tell them their mommy didn’t pack a good enough lunch, eat the government’s lunch instead.

I would tell them Obama and the Dems believe they are stupid, or else they wouldn’t try to get their votes by bribing them with a government guarantee of “free” birth control.

I would tell them to vote on the basis of the economy and the debt and that we are becoming Greece, and that Obama knows it and is fine with our system collapsing...in fact, that’s what he plans to feed off of to gain even more power.

But if I have to explain any of that to them, is there anyone at home in their brains?

**************************************

***I support Newt Gingich, btw, since I believe he is so much better positioned to handle this hogwash and whatever else they throw at us.***


21 posted on 02/18/2012 9:17:40 AM PST by txrangerette ("HOLD TO THE TRUTH...SPEAK WITHOUT FEAR" - Glenn Beck)
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To: occam's chainsaw

There are a couple issues here. If someone is trying to tell you that Santorum is against birth control, tell them that this is a media gotcha concoction. Santorum does not support any banning of birth control. And if he lives a personal lifestyle that is without birth control, well, every president we’ve ever had comes with a lifestyle, and we are under no obligation to follow them, no matter how kinky...

And if they are talking about the catholic church and birth control on their health insurance palette, remind the person that birth control is easily available and isn’t expensive. We don’t need to pay through our premiums for other people’s sex lives. Just as we don’t need government or insurance companies to cover our tooth or hair products, we don’t need them to cover our sex products.

The religious issue is that it is anti-Christian in particular and anti- Constitutional overall. Asking Catholic institutions to cover birth control is like forcing mosques and synagogues to offer bacon. Obama would NEVER force a mosque to serve pork.


22 posted on 02/18/2012 9:18:28 AM PST by Yaelle (Go Santorum!)
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To: ilgipper

I think you simply need to plant the idea of “free” and ask if there is anything in existence that is actually free. The kids happy meal toy at McDonalds....has the cost of the item figured into the happy meal. Free drink with a Meal? That always has the drink cost figured into the meal as well. Free software with the new laptop? The hardware company is already paying via the overall cost of the hardware. The truth is that the President is lost on this notion that he’ll order them to provide something ‘free’. Everything he uses on Air Force One....comes with a cost, and is paid out of some budget....from the bottled water, to the fancy toilet paper. Nothing ever comes out free, if you really think about it.


23 posted on 02/18/2012 9:18:37 AM PST by pepsionice
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To: occam's chainsaw

I support Newt Ging(r)ich...


24 posted on 02/18/2012 9:21:29 AM PST by txrangerette ("HOLD TO THE TRUTH...SPEAK WITHOUT FEAR" - Glenn Beck)
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To: occam's chainsaw

With the help of the media the administration has switched the argument from health care to birth control. Birth control pills are not a prescriptive health remedy. They are a lifestyle choice. If it is right to make health insurers pay for birth control pills, why not mandate that auto insurers pay for tires?


25 posted on 02/18/2012 9:26:54 AM PST by Baynative (Please check this out - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFIcZkEzc8I)
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To: Claud

I got a chuckle from a liberal after I posted on my Facebook page that I wanted to vote for a candidate who would force PETA to pay for my pastrami.


Genius response! Stealing it! Relate it to their own “religions”!

It also works on obama’s new mandate that they just have to offer it. Make PETA just have to offer pastrami in their cafeteria.


26 posted on 02/18/2012 9:29:09 AM PST by Yaelle (Go Santorum!)
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To: occam's chainsaw

I don’t know that it’s successful. Are you thinking it’s successful because the MSM is talking about it? If so, why bother? That will never change.


27 posted on 02/18/2012 9:30:50 AM PST by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)
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To: occam's chainsaw

The “right” to free birth control is predicated on the notion that sex is an entitlement in this country.
Think about it.
It therefore follows that sex should be (must be) without consequences and birth control must be free to all. After all, how else are you going to make abortion “rare”?
Since these women believe that sex is a right, I think the arguement is lost, unless we can convince them that if free birth control for necessary sex is a right, then free food is also a right.


28 posted on 02/18/2012 9:30:50 AM PST by Wiser now (Socialism does not eliminate poverty, it guarantees it.)
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To: Wiser now

I was talking with a friend, Al, an active Roman Catholic BTW, who was vigorously defending Obama’s birth control order. I was vigorously attacking it. In the course of the discussion I mentioned the word “free” in conjunction with the order.

He said what are you talking about, it’s not free.

A neutral third friend confirmed that the Obama ordered free birth control.

Al looked abashed and said, well yea, that’s different. It shouldn’t be free.


29 posted on 02/18/2012 9:36:47 AM PST by DManA
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To: BfloGuy

I don’t think its successful at all. It gets the lefties panties in a wad but that’s a comfortable and familiar feeling to them.

In fact I’m looking forward to the big atheist march in DC next month just because America needs to take another good look at the left.


30 posted on 02/18/2012 9:38:17 AM PST by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: occam's chainsaw
They are trying to pretend that being against something being free is the same thing as wanting to outlaw it.

Simply point out the idiocy of this logic.

People with two brain cells in a row will recognize the idiocy.

The others are incapable of rational thought, so there is no point in bothering with them further.

31 posted on 02/18/2012 9:40:00 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the fascists.)
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To: DManA
Al, an active Roman Catholic BTW, who was vigorously defending Obama’s birth control order....He said what are you talking about, it’s not free.

LOL. So then what did he think the whole order, which he was vigorously defending, was all about?

32 posted on 02/18/2012 9:40:59 AM PST by kevao
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To: mnehring
I received two emails from an obviously lib friend, this week. The first email had a link to the WH website with a "whiteboard" explanation of how expensive OCommieCare would be to repeal!!!. The other email was detailing all of the "bad" stuff the Keystone pipeline would cause...especially the "pollution" from the refinery area..."and, we already have too much pollution". Gag!!!!

The contraception issue has become the buzzword of the real issue...the loss of our liberties.

33 posted on 02/18/2012 9:41:55 AM PST by Jane Long (Soli Deo Gloria!)
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To: occam's chainsaw
Here's an interesting read. The Trouble with "free" birth control
,
With all the birth control available today why is this happening? For Women under 30, most births occur out of wedlock

What about all the STD's that occur with/or without BC pills or abortificant (sp?) pills?

34 posted on 02/18/2012 9:42:40 AM PST by Girlene
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To: occam's chainsaw

Just tell them to walk into any pharmacy; they already have access to very inexpensive BC. But *you* shouldn’t have to pay for theirs. IOW, tell them to keep their ovaries off your rosaries!


35 posted on 02/18/2012 9:43:21 AM PST by kevao
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To: occam's chainsaw
There are several fronts on which to counter this; the very first and most important is to not have a knee jerk reaction, which some already have; Next, we don't argue Catholicism vs the state, we argue the first amendment... The left has tried to set up a conundrum whereby if you argue lessor points than the very basis of American strength and freedom they trump you with the rights of a woman's health being more moral, even than the Catholic Church.

Then we argue that what President Obama has done is no different than a King ladening a "Royal Mandate" upon his subjects. In light of the constitution and bill of rights, we must repulse this notion of free citizens becoming subject King Obama or any president and his proclamation... and voice our repulsion, LOUDLY! Both as regards the mandate to purchase healthcare insurance and the demand that contraception be provided free of charge.

Lastly, we go back to the beginning of this thing, Obama Care. It was ramrodded through congress with not a republican voting for it... We must argue this or any other piece of legislation that gets through congress by single party vote should be rated as invalid. It goes without saying that any law passed along party lines only, without at least modest consent from the opposition party, that law is lopsided and cannot "fairly" applied across the land.

36 posted on 02/18/2012 9:44:26 AM PST by dps.inspect (the system is rigged...)
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To: Brent Calvert 03969-030

Oh, that’s good! I’ll try that as well.

Universal firearm insurance LOL


37 posted on 02/18/2012 9:48:20 AM PST by Claud
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To: occam's chainsaw
How do I (we) counteract the success of this birth control wedge issue? (vanity)

Shut up about it. Especially if your initials are R.S.

38 posted on 02/18/2012 9:52:03 AM PST by Jim Noble ("The Germans: At your feet, or at your throat" - Winston Churchill)
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To: MrEdd
birth control ONLY wedges out liberals who want all their free stuff but don't want to pay more taxes. And those are the only people upset, and they are not needed

You couldn't be more wrong.

Free female contraception = the right to fornicate.

Americans are in love with fornication (and pornography). They can't get enough of either one.

A candidate having questions about birth control means a candidate who disapproves of fornication. And the American electorate, drowning in their sins and hypnotized by the flickering images on their monitors, won't have any of it.

39 posted on 02/18/2012 9:55:28 AM PST by Jim Noble ("The Germans: At your feet, or at your throat" - Winston Churchill)
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To: occam's chainsaw

Attack the Democrats for spreading STDs.


40 posted on 02/18/2012 9:59:26 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: occam's chainsaw

The right to bear arms is an actual right that is actually written in the constitution. But although the federal government has protected that right for over 200 years, it has never forced every man woman and child to own a gun, nor has it ever forced any gun distributor or manufacturer to distribite guns to every person for free.


41 posted on 02/18/2012 10:03:10 AM PST by douginthearmy (Obamagebra: 1 job + 1 hope + 1 change = 0 jobs + 0 hope)
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To: sargon
I don't think American women are as foolish as you're implying...

Don't get out much, huh?

Obama has added +18 to his already overwhelming lead among single women since this started. Obama was leading this demographic 54-37 in November. He is now leading 65-30.

In 2008, there were 30.5 million single female voters. In 2012, this number may well be larger.

This issue, essentially invented by Obama and Axelrod, is a gigantic winner for their side, and they will ride it as long as they can.

42 posted on 02/18/2012 10:07:05 AM PST by Jim Noble ("The Germans: At your feet, or at your throat" - Winston Churchill)
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To: occam's chainsaw

It was planned this way by the people who wrote the health care bill. The whole idea is to add up enough mandates that it busts the insurance companies and makes everybody dependent upon government for their care.

As things stand now, am I the only one in this group that is wondering wether to drop my insurance and just pay cash?


43 posted on 02/18/2012 10:11:16 AM PST by Dogbert41 ("...or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. " -Jesus)
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To: occam's chainsaw

You wanna try reasoning with simpletons?


44 posted on 02/18/2012 10:11:42 AM PST by gundog (Help us, Nairobi-Wan Kenobi...you're our only hope.)
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To: Jim Noble
Shut up about it. Especially if your initials are R.S.

Yeah, screw that 1st amendment crap. Religious beliefs should be kept behind closed doors.

Sheesh when did conservatives become such cowards.
45 posted on 02/18/2012 10:12:15 AM PST by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: occam's chainsaw

Santorum had been in Congress for 16 years. Find a SINGLE time where Santorum, in public life, called for banning or otherwise regulating contraceptives (except maybe to kids without parents knowing about it).


46 posted on 02/18/2012 10:15:53 AM PST by BobL (I don't care about his past - Santorum will BRING THE FIGHT to Obama)
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To: Jim Noble
I was not wrong in any way shape or form. the fact that you personally lack both the integrity and intellect to acknowledge that fornication without consequences and on someone Else's dime is a liberal value.. changes.not one thing.

The bloom is off the rose.

Fornication may be your highest personal value, but it is not and never has been a conservative position.

47 posted on 02/18/2012 10:18:06 AM PST by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: occam's chainsaw

Ignore it. They blew their wad too soon, by the time real votes are being cast in October this “issue” will be played out. They really screwed up driving this thing so hard in February, the life span of a wedge issue is 1 month, 2 if it’s really juicy, then the public gets bored, then they feel badgered.


48 posted on 02/18/2012 10:24:28 AM PST by discostu (How Will I Laugh Tomorrow When I Can't Even Smile Today)
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To: occam's chainsaw

Ask “Where’s my free gun? It’s clear the second amendment gives me the right to have one, so someone needs to pay for one for me. “


49 posted on 02/18/2012 10:28:59 AM PST by jdsteel (Give me freedom, not more government.)
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To: occam's chainsaw
My personal opinion is, if any women is going to cast her vote this fall solely on whether the government gives her free birth control or not when we have the worst economy and unemployment since the great depression and we are so awash in debt that we'll be in the same situation as Greece by 2016, then she is too damn stupid to be voting in the first place and I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince her of anything.
50 posted on 02/18/2012 10:29:42 AM PST by apillar
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