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Pastor's daughter dies from injuries suffered in accidental church shooting
ABC News ^ | February 18, 2012 | Jennifer Moore

Posted on 02/18/2012 1:45:45 PM PST by exhaustguy

A pastor's daughter who was rushed to Bayfront Medical Center after she was accidentally shot in the head at church has passed away, according to the Pinellas County Sheriff's Office.

Read more: http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_pinellas/pastors-daughter-dies-from-injuries-suffered-in-accidental-church-shooting#ixzz1mlsofSi2

(Excerpt) Read more at abcactionnews.com ...


TOPICS: Religion
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; banglist; church; florida; idiot; shooting
Words fail me.
1 posted on 02/18/2012 1:45:46 PM PST by exhaustguy
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To: exhaustguy
Zambrana had removed the gun's magazine and was in the process of telling the two young men about firearm safety when the gun went off.

Just like that.

2 posted on 02/18/2012 1:49:07 PM PST by ClearCase_guy ("And the public gets what the public wants" -- The Jam)
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To: exhaustguy

What a moron.

My wife’s new Ruger LC9 has a magazine safety built in. If the magazine is removed it won’t fire even with a round in the chamber. It’s idiots like this guy that forced them to design this feature.


3 posted on 02/18/2012 1:53:11 PM PST by 2111USMC (Not a hard man to track. Leaves dead men wherever he goes.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Sounds like he was clearing the chamber and it fired. What are the odds?


4 posted on 02/18/2012 1:54:55 PM PST by traderrob6
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To: 2111USMC

A magazine safety is probably a good idea, but you’d never want to count on it.


5 posted on 02/18/2012 1:56:02 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: traderrob6

Until it’s cleared it would be wise to treat the gun like it’s not cleared — point it in a safe direction like down.


6 posted on 02/18/2012 1:57:16 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Nope. Rule # 1: Every gun is loaded.


7 posted on 02/18/2012 1:58:14 PM PST by 2111USMC (Not a hard man to track. Leaves dead men wherever he goes.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Isn’t it the cardinal rule that when one is clearing a chamber especially when it’s status is unknown that a weapon should ALWAYS be pointed at the ground.


8 posted on 02/18/2012 1:59:50 PM PST by traderrob6
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To: exhaustguy

Looking at a firearm in church ? Looks to me like neither the firearm owner or either of the respective young buyers have any business owning a firearm. According to the news article the gun went off. Correction, was it was fired. Thats what happens when you pull the trigger with a round in the chamber.

Concealed carry permit holder surely at least had a firearms safety class right ?

Poor girl and her family.


9 posted on 02/18/2012 2:00:57 PM PST by Newbomb Turk (Hey Newbomb, Where's your brothers El Camino ?)
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To: 2111USMC

“My wife’s new Ruger LC9 has a magazine safety built in. If the magazine is removed it won’t fire even with a round in the chamber. It’s idiots like this guy that forced them to design this feature.”
___________

Brilliant feature. I hope it catches on.


10 posted on 02/18/2012 2:01:36 PM PST by elvis-lives
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Get out of my mind, you answered my question before it was asked.


11 posted on 02/18/2012 2:02:22 PM PST by traderrob6
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To: exhaustguy
First, prayers up for the family. To lose a child is horrific.

Second, the rules: Don't point a weapon at anything you don't want destroyed, and don't put your finger in the trigger guard until it's time to shoot.

Parents, teach your children in the way that they should go, and they will not depart from it.

/johnny

12 posted on 02/18/2012 2:04:08 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: exhaustguy

This man will never get over what he did.

Not intentionally, but negligently, killing his own daughter.

His life is in utter ruin.

What about the rest of the family?

She’s dead, he’s her killer and a basket case.

May God have mercy on them...


13 posted on 02/18/2012 2:04:29 PM PST by txrangerette ("HOLD TO THE TRUTH...SPEAK WITHOUT FEAR" - Glenn Beck)
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To: traderrob6

Of course I’m not sure where in the church this happened, or if there was another occupyable/occupied floor (basement) beneath. Up (not in anybody’s face of course) might be a safer direction than down depending on such parameters.


14 posted on 02/18/2012 2:06:46 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: txrangerette

“Not intentionally, but negligently, killing his own daughter”

The pastor didn’t kill his own daughter. Reread the article


15 posted on 02/18/2012 2:10:21 PM PST by jimmyo57
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To: txrangerette

This is almost like getting struck by lightning. There was a little bit that could have been done to head it off, like having lesson 1 be that the gun is to be treated as loaded until proved otherwise, and removing the magazine is not enough to prove that. What’s perhaps almost as unfortunate is that all anti gun nuts will be jumping on this tragic bumble from now till doomsday, and so somebody will end up getting scared out of carrying self defense that he or she will need, and will get accosted and hurt or killed by someone whom the gun would have warded off.


16 posted on 02/18/2012 2:12:23 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: 2111USMC
2111USMC said: "Nope. Rule # 1: Every gun is loaded."

I think better phrasing is, "Treat every gun as if it's loaded".

The statement, "Every gun is loaded" is false. The problem is that one can never be sure and that it is better to be safe than sorry. We don't want people to think that their knowledge of the state of the gun can override the rule.

17 posted on 02/18/2012 2:15:00 PM PST by William Tell
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To: 2111USMC

“What a moron.

My wife’s new Ruger LC9 has a magazine safety built in. If the magazine is removed it won’t fire even with a round in the chamber. It’s idiots like this guy that forced them to design this feature.”

Almost 20 years ago I had an accidental discharge with a S & W 40 that had a lever safety and a magazine safety. The magazine was removed and the lever safety were on as I tried to remove a soft nosed round hung up on the edge of the chamber. It missed my thigh and blew out a glass panel on my sliding glass doors. I sheepishly took it back to the gun shop and suffered the humiliation of relating my story in front of the owner and 4-5 hangers-on. When the laughter died each and every veteran gun owner related a story of their own accidental discharge in a somber tone.

BTW Smith and Wesson contacted me and bought the two year old gun back for exactly what I paid for it.


18 posted on 02/18/2012 2:17:45 PM PST by Cyman
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To: HiTech RedNeck; txrangerette

Not sure what floor, but he was showing it off in a storage closet. And from earlier articles I don’t think it was the pastor that had the gun - but obviously whoever it was will have a hard time dealing with it.

Just last weekend there was a shooting near me. Guy at a party put his gun in the safe ‘cuz he knew he would be drinking. Midway through the party he showed it off to his buddies - keeping the magazine in the safe. After showing it off put it between the bed mattress. And later still showed it off again, and pointed it at a wall and pulled the trigger to show them it was “empty”.

Same thing - hit a 20 year old girl in the head on the other side of the wall. Killed her. All because of an “empty” gun.

He was a legal concealed carry, but still an idiot.


19 posted on 02/18/2012 2:21:22 PM PST by 21twelve
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To: exhaustguy

RIP.


20 posted on 02/18/2012 2:26:23 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj
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To: elvis-lives
elvis-lives said: "Brilliant feature. I hope it catches on."

It can be a mistake to try to substitute technology for understanding.

Let's say you have a pistol with a magazine interlock such that it won't fire without a magazine.

Then you inadvertantly leave a round chambered without realizing it. If you then insert a magazine and pull the trigger what will happen? What did you expect to happen?

If you observe the four rules of safe gun handling, you will be fine without the interlock.

If you have the interlock but fail to observe the rules, you will not be fine.

21 posted on 02/18/2012 2:26:42 PM PST by William Tell
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To: William Tell

And if you adhere to the “Four Rules” and have the safety feature?


22 posted on 02/18/2012 2:46:07 PM PST by elvis-lives
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To: 2111USMC
Nope. Rule # 1: Every gun is loaded.

Exactly!

Some things my dad (a WWII vet) taught me about firearms:

Always assume that every gun is loaded every time you pick it up. When in doubt, check and recheck and triple check and never forget to check the chamber. It only takes one bullet to kill another person or yourself.

Shooting a gun by accident is no accident, it is stupidity.

A gun is not a toy, don’t treat it like one. That’s not to say that guns can’t be fun to shoot, but always respect the gun.

A clean gun is a happy gun.

Never aim a gun at any person, ever, unless your intent is to kill that person. Never aim a gun at another person in jest or as a joke even if you are “sure” the gun is unloaded. That includes a gun that you think is loaded with “blanks”.

If you aim your gun to shoot a person in self defense, never, ever shoot over the perp’s head as a warning or shoot to wound; always shoot to kill and with the very first shot as you may not get a second chance.

An unloaded gun with a safety lock in one room with bullets locked away in a safe in another room is about as useful as no gun at all.

When your life is in danger, remember the cops are only a phone call and probably 10 to 15 minutes or more away.

You are a woman (girl), you can’t overpower most men if their intent is to do you harm, that is unless you have a gun and know how to use it.

Target practice, no matter what your mom says, is never a waste of time. Neither is fishing.

I miss my dad.

23 posted on 02/18/2012 2:51:14 PM PST by MD Expat in PA
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To: 21twelve
Not sure what floor, but he was showing it off in a storage closet. And from earlier articles I don’t think it was the pastor that had the gun - but obviously whoever it was will have a hard time dealing with it.

Just last weekend there was a shooting near me. Guy at a party put his gun in the safe ‘cuz he knew he would be drinking. Midway through the party he showed it off to his buddies - keeping the magazine in the safe. After showing it off put it between the bed mattress. And later still showed it off again, and pointed it at a wall and pulled the trigger to show them it was “empty”.

Maybe that's part of the problem: People who get so excited about "showing off" their weapon that they can't think clearly enough to follow safety rules.

24 posted on 02/18/2012 3:00:01 PM PST by wideminded
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To: 2111USMC
Nope. Rule # 1: Every gun is loaded.

How could you ever clean it? It's more like "Assume every gun is loaded till you check it and then check it again".

25 posted on 02/18/2012 3:04:13 PM PST by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
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To: elvis-lives
elvis-lives said: And if you adhere to the “Four Rules” and have the safety feature?

Buy the feature if you like. I would choose not to buy.

I own a small .32 that has an interlock which prevents moving the slide back far enough to eject a round when the magazine has been removed.

It's an absolute pain in the neck to unload properly. I remove the loaded magazine. I must then insert an unloaded magazine and cycle the slide to eject the chambered round. Since I live in the People's Republik of Kalifornia and can't get a ccw, I find myself having to go through this awkward drill in my car at stops in Nevada or Oregon.

This additional handling is just a further opportunity for something to go wrong.

Kalifornia now outlaws the retail sale of handguns without loaded chamber indicators. The accidental shooting which prompted this law involved a Beretta which HAD a loaded chamber indicator. The idiot who fired the gun didn't know what was being indicated.

If you support the anti-gunners with every "improvement" they seek, our guns will have to be outfitted with flashing neon signs and sirens designed to warn the user and anybody else within fifty yards.

26 posted on 02/18/2012 3:36:50 PM PST by William Tell
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To: William Tell

If you support the anti-gunners with every “improvement” they seek, our guns will have to be outfitted with flashing neon signs and sirens designed to warn the user and anybody else within fifty yards.
____________

Interest in safety = supporting “the anti-gunners”. Got it.


27 posted on 02/18/2012 3:44:22 PM PST by elvis-lives
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To: elvis-lives; William Tell
And if you adhere to the “Four Rules” and have the safety feature?

Then you have paid extra for one more thing you don't need, that will eventually break, or otherwise screw you up, at the worst possible moment.

28 posted on 02/18/2012 3:57:19 PM PST by ApplegateRanch (If their "Alternative" actually works, the Greenies will proceed to kill it.)
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Tired of the disruptions? We need that new equipment!


29 posted on 02/18/2012 4:42:39 PM PST by RedMDer (Forward With Confidence!)
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To: elvis-lives

I don’t want a gun with that “brilliant” safety feature. For a variety of reasons I may find myself with a gun that has a round chambered but no magazine and no way to fire that round. That might cost me my life.


30 posted on 02/18/2012 4:46:35 PM PST by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: elvis-lives
elvis-lives said: Interest in safety = supporting “the anti-gunners”. Got it.

I'm sick to death of anti-gunners in Kalifornia costing me thousands of dollars in order to create the "safe" utopia they seek. I already pointed out how a magazine disconnector could get a person into trouble. I pointed out how one of my own guns has features which create more opportunity for problems.

If you want to pay for "gun safety" that's fine but you shouldn't expect my support for it.

31 posted on 02/18/2012 4:50:14 PM PST by William Tell
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To: ApplegateRanch; TigersEye

Thanks for your comments and insight. I hadn’t really considered how frustrating and inconvenient such safety features could be. I was all caught up in that “dead 20 year old girl” thing. My bad.


32 posted on 02/18/2012 4:52:57 PM PST by elvis-lives
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To: William Tell

Yep, the “loaded chamber indicator” and the internal “magazine safety” are both due to California law.

My wife’s Ruger has both (we don’t live in California). For a short time, I had a Jimenez 9 MM with both of those “features”.


33 posted on 02/18/2012 4:55:18 PM PST by 2111USMC (Not a hard man to track. Leaves dead men wherever he goes.)
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To: exhaustguy

Those poor people. God give them peace.


34 posted on 02/18/2012 4:55:43 PM PST by Dogbert41 ("...or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. " -Jesus)
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To: Dogbert41

My kids are friends with this girl and her boyfriend. This was such a profound tragedy on so many levels.

The young man who asked to look at the gun usually doesn’t attend church there, he was there to help that day.

The man who showed him the gun is a professional security guard (yes he should have known better and checked the chamber once removing the magazine...but it was a mistake, and we all make mistakes...a mistake that had tragic results.)

The kid wasn’t looking to buy a gun, just going to be in the market for one when he came of age. So there was no “guy selling” going on in the church as some media outlets have reported.

They went into a closet to view the gun. The gun went off and fired through a wall and into the next room. Not that anyone being hit would not have been a tragedy, but that bullet travelled through a wall and into a room full of people at just the right trajectory to hit the young woman (the girlfriend of the guy asking to view the gun) in the back of the head and travel straight through her head doing irreparable damage to her brain. The bullet could have hit so many places but it went straight through her head...the chance of that happening just overwhelms me.

The man who owned the gun is a long time friend of the pastor’s family. The church family had to witness the whole incident (including, of course, the boyfriend, the parents, and many young children.)

She seemed to rally mid week, giving all concerned some hope, but then started failing the last couple of days.

I appreciate your comment because if you look back up through the thread, there’s not a lot of empathy to be seen.
The ripple effect of this event will last the entire lives of those involved...truly a tragedy.


35 posted on 02/18/2012 5:25:40 PM PST by dawn53
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To: elvis-lives
As has been said in many treatises on firearms and in firearms handling courses "the primary safety is between your ears." The beauty of the rules of safe firearms handling is that you can apply them to any make of firearm, old, new or yet-invented, whether you have ever seen that model before, and you can either safely unload it or determine that you need additional information on its operation and set it down where it will be safe until then. If you diligently follow those rules you can handle any firearm safely.

Added safety features on guns can be useful but they can lead even experienced firearms enthusiasts into a false sense of security and away from reliance on the "primary" safety. For the inexperienced who don't know the basic rules of safety (who shouldn't be handling guns but do) added mechanical features just introduce added possibilities for confusion and distraction.

36 posted on 02/18/2012 5:26:53 PM PST by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye

“The beauty of the rules of safe firearms”....is that those who don’t follow them are seldom the ones who suffer.


37 posted on 02/18/2012 5:42:48 PM PST by elvis-lives
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To: elvis-lives

I wouldn’t say that.


38 posted on 02/18/2012 5:55:11 PM PST by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye

I know I’me being snarky but it is frustrating. This conversation began with a dead girl.

I am a gun owner, occassional hunter, and southerner so I am not an “anti-gunner”, but there is a frustrating tendency for those who are very much into guns to be hyper sensitive about any suggestion.

Absolutely the idiot who fired the errant shot is wholly to blame. You can bet that he will never get another nights sleep. The thing about gun accidents is that they are often tragic, even if it is the first and only accident.

Arguing that too many safety features makes one careless is like saying seat belts causes people to drive fast. Not really logical.

there has to be a happy medium


39 posted on 02/18/2012 6:19:01 PM PST by elvis-lives
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To: elvis-lives
Arguing that too many safety features makes one careless is like saying seat belts causes people to drive fast. Not really logical.

That's your opinion. You can keep it and your snark.

The thing about gun accidents is that they are often tragic, even if it is the first and only accident.

How about you show me the statistics to prove that most ADs result in injury and your other contention that most ADs that do injure someone injure someone other than the shooter. You like to make bold statements now let's see you back them up.

40 posted on 02/18/2012 6:28:21 PM PST by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: elvis-lives

Oh, and another thing, I didn’t accuse you of being “anti-gunner” so who is being hypersensitive? All I did was give you my opinion on magazine interlocks and respond from their to your replies.


41 posted on 02/18/2012 6:30:40 PM PST by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye

Arguing with a fool is like trying to teach a pig algebra. You waste your time and the pig is oblivious.


42 posted on 02/18/2012 7:13:24 PM PST by elvis-lives
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To: elvis-lives

I noticed that after your last post. I figured you wouldn’t back up your claims either.


43 posted on 02/18/2012 7:41:11 PM PST by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye

We are interacting on a thread started to discuss the news of a 20 yr olds girl who was accidently shot in the head while attending church and you want to discuss how you feel inconcenienced by safety features, and hardware and statistics. If that’s how you roll, you are welcome to it pal.

For me. I’ll say a prayer for the girl, her family and all those involved.

More power to you. Do me a favor and find someone else to discuss this with.


44 posted on 02/18/2012 7:51:38 PM PST by elvis-lives
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To: elvis-lives
You were part of that discussion before I ever entered the thread.

For me. I’ll say a prayer for the girl, her family and all those involved.

That is your first post to address that aspect of the story. Very telling that you now use it to deflect from you illogical musings on gun safety and your illogical accusation that we were having an argument. You admittedly are the one who began the snark so your attempt to be high and mighty now falls on deaf ears.

45 posted on 02/18/2012 8:08:53 PM PST by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: MD Expat in PA
If you aim your gun to shoot a person in self defense, never, ever shoot over the perp’s head as a warning or shoot to wound; always shoot to kill and with the very first shot as you may not get a second chance.

Per MY dad, never point a gun at someone unless you plan to kill them. Which means you should never bring a gun into the equation unless the situation has become so critical that homicide is an appropriate response.

46 posted on 02/18/2012 8:29:33 PM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: raybbr
Clean it as though it were loaded.

Muzzle in a safe direction, and no fingers anywhere near the trigger (unless, as happens with one I had, cleaning involves removing the trigger group from the receiver. But by gum I treated that receiver/barrel group like a loaded gun even when the trigger group was in the dunk tank on the other side of the room...)

47 posted on 02/18/2012 9:02:27 PM PST by ExGeeEye (Islam: a transnational fascist government that demands worship.)
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To: dawn53

Dawn, I’ve been into guns since I was a child. I’ve probably owned or shot just about everything there is at one time or another. I’ve had a few accidental discharges throughout my life, and just by God’s grace, no injuries. One thing I know from my own experience and from everyone I know, people make mistakes. Every once in while you do something inexplicabley stupid. Even the very best of them. It’s human nature. I try not to ridicule the ones I see in person, or the ones that are unlucky enough to get posted on Youtube or in pictures, but instead try and use them as teachable moments. My heart still aches over the sad story of a girl in Louisiana who jumped out of the closet to scare her parents, or the little boy in Las Vegas who couldn’t hang on to a Glock 18. Now this. There’s no answer. Sometimes bad things happen to good people and innocent children. In the end, Jesus will comfort and wipe away the tears of those who love Him. There’s no greater hope or love than what awaits us.


48 posted on 02/18/2012 10:02:08 PM PST by Dogbert41 ("...or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. " -Jesus)
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