Skip to comments.BREAKING NEWS: Error Undoes Faster-Than-Light Neutrino Results
Posted on 02/22/2012 2:21:19 PM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets
It appears that the faster-than-light neutrino results, announced last September by the OPERA collaboration in Italy, was due to a mistake after all. A bad connection between a GPS unit and a computer may be to blame.
Physicists had detected neutrinos travelling from the CERN laboratory in Geneva to the Gran Sasso laboratory near L'Aquila that appeared to make the trip in about 60 nanoseconds less than light speed. Many other physicists suspected that the result was due to some kind of error, given that it seems at odds with Einstein's special theory of relativity, which says nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. That theory has been vindicated by many experiments over the decades.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.sciencemag.org ...
Please, refrain from making comparisons to Global Warming. This is good science, open minded honest evaluation. If Physics were like Global Warming, there would be "confidential" emails talking about hiding the delay, so the the public will not become skeptical of giant collider projects.
Yes, they are honest with themselves. We know Global Warming is a farce, yet the “scientists” who came up with all the data will not come out and openly say they were wrong. Let the real scientists do their jobs, seriously.
On a side note, I never can wrap my head around Einstein’s theories of light and time.
I agree, there’s a lot of good science out there.
You’re taking all the fun out of it Lonesome! First thing I thought of!
by Albert Einstein
Written: 1916 (this revised edition: 1924)
Seems like measuring something FTL with non-FTL equipment is going to be a problem. At least on the scale of being stuck on the planet, and that tiny little distance, relative to C.
And you are correct. This is how science is supposed to work, completely unlike the warmists hocus pocus.
agreed. What is sad that you had to mention it.
I knew this yesterday.
Right, I’ve always thought of time as a constant, I don’t understand how light has anything to do with it.
I travel at the speed of light / or at a relativistic speed, I come back, I haven’t aged, yet Earth has. This is what I don’t understand. A good example would be “Forever War” by Joe Haldeman. If you are familiar with sci-fi.
I like what David Hilbert said when the Nazis tried to get him to take credit for General Relativity (when they weren’t denouncing it as Jewish science). “In Gottingen, every school boy knows four dimensional non Euclidean geometry. Relativity belongs to Einstein.” (Also what he said to the Nazi minister of education on his the occassion of his Festschift in 1943, when asked how Mathematics in Gottingen was going, now that it was Judenrein. “There is no more mathematics in Gottingen.”
They forgot to carry the 2.
Ernst Mach (same Mach) critized Newton’s second law of motion as a trivial definition of time.
Einstein showed that how you experience time, as measured by events, depends on your particular frame of reference. The notion that time is some natural force flowing continually and uniformly for all observers is not supported by facts. What is truly remarkable is that time measured quantum electrodynamically by atomic clocks appears to be identical (to a least one part in 10 to the 9) with graviationally determined time as measured by the orbits of planets.
Hey at least here the raw data were available, others could verify ( or not), additional tests were run, and the truth comes out....This is NOTHING like AGW where the data are secret and then manipulated and tests cannot be run and thr truth is not what anyone in the AGW community wants to know
Time shows up as the independent variable in the equations of quantum mechanics and astronomy. Long baseline astronomical observations agree with atomic clocks to about one part in a billion, limited by our knowledge of all the factors perturbing astronomical orbits. Different astronomical clocks (E.g., eclipses of Jupiters moons and occlusion of stars by Neptune) only agree with one another to about one part in a billion, this is attributed to imperfect knowledge of the solar system’s detailed gravitational field. But within the same percision, astronomical clocks agree with atomic clocks.
My daughter reported that my grandson said I was smarter than a cheetah. (He meant that as a compliment.) I told her I was faster than Steven Hawkings, too.
You sir, are faster than a neutrino.
One reason we can't find any intelligent life out there might be because of giant collider projects. Once a life form starts tinkering with tiny black holes the whole place blows up. The Big Bang itself might have been someone's collider experiment gone awry.
I’m about to blow your entire argument away. I’m actually Jean Claude Van Dam, and I’m a Time Cop from the future.
186,000 miles per second, it’s not just a good idea, it’s the law
“I travel at the speed of light / or at a relativistic speed, I come back, I havent aged, yet Earth has. This is what I dont understand.”
I too, have problems with that. Much because the speeds are relative. Me in a space craft is traveling at light speed relative to what? Apparently relative to the earth. So, from my point of view, I can think of myself as fixed in space, and the earth is moving away from me at relativistic speed. So observers both on the earth and on my space craft can think of themselves as stationary while the other is moving relative to their fixed position. When I land on earth, who is to say I am not the old man, and the earthlings are the young ones?
“Please, refrain from making comparisons to Global Warming. This is good science, open minded honest evaluation.”
Perhaps there is no legitimate comparison, however, it does illustrate how science and scientists have become increasingly willing to go off half cocked with some major “discovery” absent appropriate skepticism and diligent adherence to the scientific method which requires repeatability of result.
“HEY! We don’t serve faster-than-light neutrinos here!” said the bartender. A neutrino goes into a bar.
Many a Sci-Fi story is written around the premise that the future is so bad that the time traveler goes back in time to change the history - at any cost, including his own existence. Terminator movies are just one example.
This, however, creates a paradox: if the time cop gets destroyed in the process of changing the past then who changed that past in the first place? One answer to that paradox is the concept of the fractal Multiverse where Universes copy themselves whenever a tiniest event takes place. One obvious question about that theory is that you can't copy a Universe without having an equivalent amount of energy or mass at hand.
There is a solution to this, but you have to be willing to think really hard when this video is playing.
Just like losing plasma flow to the warp coil. Bad day all around.
A faster-than-light neutrino walks into a bar.
I think the release was tempered with the appropriate amount of caution. I really didn’t think it was over hyped.
And it’s good that they followed the facts, instead of trying hide the observations that failed to match their theory. Initially and later.
The way we solve this conundrum is by using Time Cops from different dimensions to police our own home dimension. Therefore, if I accidentally shoot my Super-star martial arts actor counterpart, it wouldn’t be that big of a deal.
What amazed me was the simplicity he used to describe his concepts.
I did not know about David Hilbert. Thanks for that insight.
I spent 14 years in NM. When I lived there most of my friends worked at the labs. (I’m a Ham Op) I knew several “scientists” some of them were “rocket scientists”. I knew some physicists and some others who were techs but did not talk about their work. Other friends worked for the Military bases in the area.
Before I moved from NM in December 1985, I had learned that some of science is not about science but about funding. Had friends connected with the VLA site (deep space radio telescope) in Datil. Heard then a bit about National Science Foundation and the funding impact of the actual research.
It is much worse today. Many frauds in the business.
In a earlier time some of the people I knew accomplished great things with little funding. “Science”
Las Cruces & White Sands was famous for Robert Goddard and later Wernher Von Braun and his team. I lived in Las Cruces, but moved in less than 1 year to Silver City. Traveled (salesman) for a living while there.
Admired the work that Kelly Johnson did at the “skunk works”. He was brilliant about what he created.
A return to honesty and morality in our culture is the only way out of this mess.
Certainly not the Communist path that DC has us on.
It doesn't actually "blow up," it "sucks up."
Here is a Special Relativity Simulation:
“Want a good time with a hot Italian? Call 6.022E23.”
A printer walks into a bar and orders a Bodoni Bold.
The bartender says, “we don’t serve your type here.”
An intoxicated neutrino walks into a Mexican bar and says Una cerveza, por favor!
The bartender replies, "No mas!
Has Einstein or anybody else ever explained WHY, of all the known particles, photons happen to be the fastest?
His peer says, "Why do you say that?"
He smiles and replies, "Because they never have Mass."
“I canna change the laws of physics”
Why does movement and speed have anything to do with time.....I move at the speed of light.....so what? Time slows down for me?
As I predicted.
Agreed - and that they caught it sooner rather than later. Not like the “Palmdale Bulge” described above. Surveying indicated changes in ground elevation in California, prompting fears of earthquakes, and more surveying and monitoring and millions of dollars and years of study.
“Oops - surveying errors. Sorry!”
Seems like measuring something FTL with non-FTL equipment is going to be a problem.
It's easier than it sounds. Send a light signal down a path at the same time the >C signal flies down the same path. Measure the difference in arrival times. Light travels about a a foot per nanosecond (10E-9). Cheap lab equipment can easily measure down to a nanosecond. Of course, more bucks, more Buck Rogers.
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