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BREAKING NEWS: Error Undoes Faster-Than-Light Neutrino Results
Science Insider ^ | 22 February 2012 | Edwin Cartlidge

Posted on 02/22/2012 2:21:19 PM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets

It appears that the faster-than-light neutrino results, announced last September by the OPERA collaboration in Italy, was due to a mistake after all. A bad connection between a GPS unit and a computer may be to blame.

Physicists had detected neutrinos travelling from the CERN laboratory in Geneva to the Gran Sasso laboratory near L'Aquila that appeared to make the trip in about 60 nanoseconds less than light speed. Many other physicists suspected that the result was due to some kind of error, given that it seems at odds with Einstein's special theory of relativity, which says nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. That theory has been vindicated by many experiments over the decades.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.sciencemag.org ...


TOPICS: Science
KEYWORDS: neutrino; relativity; stringtheory
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Check the wiring...

Please, refrain from making comparisons to Global Warming. This is good science, open minded honest evaluation. If Physics were like Global Warming, there would be "confidential" emails talking about hiding the delay, so the the public will not become skeptical of giant collider projects.

1 posted on 02/22/2012 2:21:31 PM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

Yes, they are honest with themselves. We know Global Warming is a farce, yet the “scientists” who came up with all the data will not come out and openly say they were wrong. Let the real scientists do their jobs, seriously.

On a side note, I never can wrap my head around Einstein’s theories of light and time.


2 posted on 02/22/2012 2:24:43 PM PST by IamCenny
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

I agree, there’s a lot of good science out there.


3 posted on 02/22/2012 2:25:25 PM PST by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

You’re taking all the fun out of it Lonesome! First thing I thought of!


4 posted on 02/22/2012 2:25:55 PM PST by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
Relativity: The Special and General Theory

by Albert Einstein

http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/5001/pg5001.html

Written: 1916 (this revised edition: 1924)

5 posted on 02/22/2012 2:26:45 PM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
I had wondered about that since I first read the story.

Seems like measuring something FTL with non-FTL equipment is going to be a problem. At least on the scale of being stuck on the planet, and that tiny little distance, relative to C.

And you are correct. This is how science is supposed to work, completely unlike the warmists hocus pocus.

johnny

6 posted on 02/22/2012 2:28:21 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
"This is good science"

agreed. What is sad that you had to mention it.

7 posted on 02/22/2012 2:29:17 PM PST by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric Cartman voice* 'I love you, guys')
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To: IamCenny
On a side note, I never can wrap my head around Einstein’s theories of light and time.

Well, one thing for sure is that, man will never be able to travel to the past or to the future.

How do I know?

If travel to the past "had been invented in the future", we would know about it by now with the "presence" of those time travelers having already been notice.

Not only that...

If time travel were to be possible, the entire universe we know, would be completely chaotic, with intervention changing all things in the past, present, and in the future. In fact, even humanity might not exist.
8 posted on 02/22/2012 2:30:47 PM PST by adorno
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

9 posted on 02/22/2012 2:31:40 PM PST by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

I knew this yesterday.


10 posted on 02/22/2012 2:37:24 PM PST by saganite (What happens to taglines? Is there a termination date?)
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To: adorno

Right, I’ve always thought of time as a constant, I don’t understand how light has anything to do with it.

I travel at the speed of light / or at a relativistic speed, I come back, I haven’t aged, yet Earth has. This is what I don’t understand. A good example would be “Forever War” by Joe Haldeman. If you are familiar with sci-fi.


11 posted on 02/22/2012 2:37:50 PM PST by IamCenny
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To: Texas Fossil

I like what David Hilbert said when the Nazis tried to get him to take credit for General Relativity (when they weren’t denouncing it as Jewish science). “In Gottingen, every school boy knows four dimensional non Euclidean geometry. Relativity belongs to Einstein.” (Also what he said to the Nazi minister of education on his the occassion of his Festschift in 1943, when asked how Mathematics in Gottingen was going, now that it was Judenrein. “There is no more mathematics in Gottingen.”


12 posted on 02/22/2012 2:38:16 PM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (Ceterum autem censeo, Obama delenda est.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

They forgot to carry the 2.


13 posted on 02/22/2012 2:41:24 PM PST by SoFloFreeper
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To: SoFloFreeper

14 posted on 02/22/2012 2:46:16 PM PST by PGR88
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To: IamCenny

Ernst Mach (same Mach) critized Newton’s second law of motion as a trivial definition of time.

Einstein showed that how you experience time, as measured by events, depends on your particular frame of reference. The notion that time is some natural force flowing continually and uniformly for all observers is not supported by facts. What is truly remarkable is that time measured quantum electrodynamically by atomic clocks appears to be identical (to a least one part in 10 to the 9) with graviationally determined time as measured by the orbits of planets.


15 posted on 02/22/2012 2:46:33 PM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (Ceterum autem censeo, Obama delenda est.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

Hey at least here the raw data were available, others could verify ( or not), additional tests were run, and the truth comes out....This is NOTHING like AGW where the data are secret and then manipulated and tests cannot be run and thr truth is not what anyone in the AGW community wants to know


16 posted on 02/22/2012 2:53:17 PM PST by Nifster
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To: IamCenny

Time shows up as the independent variable in the equations of quantum mechanics and astronomy. Long baseline astronomical observations agree with atomic clocks to about one part in a billion, limited by our knowledge of all the factors perturbing astronomical orbits. Different astronomical clocks (E.g., eclipses of Jupiters moons and occlusion of stars by Neptune) only agree with one another to about one part in a billion, this is attributed to imperfect knowledge of the solar system’s detailed gravitational field. But within the same percision, astronomical clocks agree with atomic clocks.


17 posted on 02/22/2012 2:53:17 PM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (Ceterum autem censeo, Obama delenda est.)
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To: saganite

My daughter reported that my grandson said I was smarter than a cheetah. (He meant that as a compliment.) I told her I was faster than Steven Hawkings, too.

You sir, are faster than a neutrino.


18 posted on 02/22/2012 2:58:04 PM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (Ceterum autem censeo, Obama delenda est.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
so the public will not become skeptical of giant collider projects.

One reason we can't find any intelligent life out there might be because of giant collider projects. Once a life form starts tinkering with tiny black holes the whole place blows up. The Big Bang itself might have been someone's collider experiment gone awry.

19 posted on 02/22/2012 2:58:35 PM PST by Reeses
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To: adorno

I’m about to blow your entire argument away. I’m actually Jean Claude Van Dam, and I’m a Time Cop from the future.


20 posted on 02/22/2012 3:05:50 PM PST by Apollo5600
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

Graffiti:

186,000 miles per second, it’s not just a good idea, it’s the law


21 posted on 02/22/2012 3:07:26 PM PST by preacher (Communism has only killed 100 million people: Let's give it another chance!)
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To: IamCenny

“I travel at the speed of light / or at a relativistic speed, I come back, I haven’t aged, yet Earth has. This is what I don’t understand.”

I too, have problems with that. Much because the speeds are relative. Me in a space craft is traveling at light speed relative to what? Apparently relative to the earth. So, from my point of view, I can think of myself as fixed in space, and the earth is moving away from me at relativistic speed. So observers both on the earth and on my space craft can think of themselves as stationary while the other is moving relative to their fixed position. When I land on earth, who is to say I am not the old man, and the earthlings are the young ones?


22 posted on 02/22/2012 3:07:38 PM PST by dsrtsage (One half of all people have below average In the US the number is 54%)
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To: Apollo5600
I’m about to blow your entire argument away. I’m actually Jean Claude Van Dam, and I’m a Time Cop from the future.

Actually, you just proved my whole argument.

A time cop from the future would actually not try to mess with the past, present or future, which, if he did, chances are that, even he would stop existing, and hence, no time cop.
23 posted on 02/22/2012 3:11:28 PM PST by adorno
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

“Please, refrain from making comparisons to Global Warming. This is good science, open minded honest evaluation.”

Perhaps there is no legitimate comparison, however, it does illustrate how science and scientists have become increasingly willing to go off half cocked with some major “discovery” absent appropriate skepticism and diligent adherence to the scientific method which requires repeatability of result.


24 posted on 02/22/2012 3:13:39 PM PST by traderrob6
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To: saganite

“HEY! We don’t serve faster-than-light neutrinos here!” said the bartender. A neutrino goes into a bar.


25 posted on 02/22/2012 3:14:02 PM PST by Lazamataz (If unemployment helps the economy, like the W.H. says, then CONTRACTING CANCER MAKES YOU HEALTHIER!)
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To: adorno
A time cop from the future would actually not try to mess with the past, present or future, which, if he did, chances are that, even he would stop existing, and hence, no time cop.

Many a Sci-Fi story is written around the premise that the future is so bad that the time traveler goes back in time to change the history - at any cost, including his own existence. Terminator movies are just one example.

This, however, creates a paradox: if the time cop gets destroyed in the process of changing the past then who changed that past in the first place? One answer to that paradox is the concept of the fractal Multiverse where Universes copy themselves whenever a tiniest event takes place. One obvious question about that theory is that you can't copy a Universe without having an equivalent amount of energy or mass at hand.

26 posted on 02/22/2012 3:34:25 PM PST by Greysard
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To: Greysard
Many a Sci-Fi story is written around the premise that the future is so bad that the time traveler goes back in time to change the history - at any cost, including his own existence. Terminator movies are just one example. This, however, creates a paradox: if the time cop gets destroyed in the process of changing the past then who changed that past in the first place? One answer to that paradox is the concept of the fractal Multiverse where Universes copy themselves whenever a tiniest event takes place. One obvious question about that theory is that you can't copy a Universe without having an equivalent amount of energy or mass at hand.

There is a solution to this, but you have to be willing to think really hard when this video is playing.

27 posted on 02/22/2012 3:39:03 PM PST by Lazamataz (If unemployment helps the economy, like the W.H. says, then CONTRACTING CANCER MAKES YOU HEALTHIER!)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

Just like losing plasma flow to the warp coil. Bad day all around.


28 posted on 02/22/2012 3:43:42 PM PST by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: Greysard
This, however, creates a paradox: if the time cop gets destroyed in the process of changing the past then who changed that past in the first place?

That's what I had in mind when I said that the universe would be nothing but chaos. With chaos, nothing would ever get to fruition, because, it would have been undone by a time traveler, and then, even that undoing of events could get undone, and so on and so forth. Thus, chaos. But, perhaps there is a better plan, and time travel is "prohibited" by design, and thus, what we have is an ever-changing universe, headed in a single direction, and that's towards a future.
29 posted on 02/22/2012 3:52:49 PM PST by adorno
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
The bartender says, "We don't serve your type here."

A faster-than-light neutrino walks into a bar.

30 posted on 02/22/2012 3:52:52 PM PST by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)
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To: traderrob6

I think the release was tempered with the appropriate amount of caution. I really didn’t think it was over hyped.

And it’s good that they followed the facts, instead of trying hide the observations that failed to match their theory. Initially and later.


31 posted on 02/22/2012 4:00:40 PM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (Ceterum autem censeo, Obama delenda est.)
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To: adorno

The way we solve this conundrum is by using Time Cops from different dimensions to police our own home dimension. Therefore, if I accidentally shoot my Super-star martial arts actor counterpart, it wouldn’t be that big of a deal.


32 posted on 02/22/2012 4:06:26 PM PST by Apollo5600
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

What amazed me was the simplicity he used to describe his concepts.

I did not know about David Hilbert. Thanks for that insight.

I spent 14 years in NM. When I lived there most of my friends worked at the labs. (I’m a Ham Op) I knew several “scientists” some of them were “rocket scientists”. I knew some physicists and some others who were techs but did not talk about their work. Other friends worked for the Military bases in the area.

Before I moved from NM in December 1985, I had learned that some of science is not about science but about funding. Had friends connected with the VLA site (deep space radio telescope) in Datil. Heard then a bit about National Science Foundation and the funding impact of the actual research.

It is much worse today. Many frauds in the business.

In a earlier time some of the people I knew accomplished great things with little funding. “Science”

Las Cruces & White Sands was famous for Robert Goddard and later Wernher Von Braun and his team. I lived in Las Cruces, but moved in less than 1 year to Silver City. Traveled (salesman) for a living while there.

Admired the work that Kelly Johnson did at the “skunk works”. He was brilliant about what he created.

A return to honesty and morality in our culture is the only way out of this mess.

Certainly not the Communist path that DC has us on.


33 posted on 02/22/2012 4:27:52 PM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: Reeses
Once a life form starts tinkering with tiny black holes the whole place blows up.

It doesn't actually "blow up," it "sucks up."

34 posted on 02/22/2012 4:34:33 PM PST by Erasmus (Able was I ere I saw this crappy little island.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

Here is a Special Relativity Simulation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgAII_crHHc


35 posted on 02/22/2012 4:35:45 PM PST by 2harddrive
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To: preacher

“Want a good time with a hot Italian? Call 6.022E23.”


36 posted on 02/22/2012 4:39:09 PM PST by Erasmus (BHO: New supreme leader of the rollin' homey empire.)
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To: BfloGuy

A printer walks into a bar and orders a Bodoni Bold.

The bartender says, “we don’t serve your type here.”


37 posted on 02/22/2012 4:43:40 PM PST by Erasmus (BHO: New supreme leader of the rollin' homey empire.)
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To: Apollo5600
The way we solve this conundrum is by using Time Cops from different dimensions to police our own home dimension. Therefore, if I accidentally shoot my Super-star martial arts actor counterpart, it wouldn’t be that big of a deal.

One paradox creates another.

So, what's to prevent a time cop from one dimension undoing the events that a time cop from another dimension performed. And then, what about, vengeance from the time cops in our dimension going after the time cops from the other dimensions who effed up our world and dimension?

Perhaps, the best thing to do is to eliminate the dimensions?
38 posted on 02/22/2012 5:03:06 PM PST by adorno
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To: Lazamataz; saganite; Erasmus; BfloGuy; Lonesome in Massachussets
A neutrino walks into a bar and says "I’d like a beer, please."
After the bartender gives him one, he asks "How much will that be?"
"For you?", the bartender says, "No charge."

An intoxicated neutrino walks into a Mexican bar and says “Una cerveza, por favor!”
The bartender replies, "No mas!”

39 posted on 02/22/2012 5:09:24 PM PST by Upstate NY Guy
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
...Einstein's special theory of relativity, which says nothing can travel faster than the speed of light...

Has Einstein or anybody else ever explained WHY, of all the known particles, photons happen to be the fastest?

40 posted on 02/22/2012 5:10:01 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Upstate NY Guy
A scientist looks up, and pronounces, "neutrino's are not Catholic!"

His peer says, "Why do you say that?"

He smiles and replies, "Because they never have Mass."

41 posted on 02/22/2012 5:15:37 PM PST by Lazamataz (If unemployment helps the economy, like the W.H. says, then CONTRACTING CANCER MAKES YOU HEALTHIER!)
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To: BluesDuke

42 posted on 02/22/2012 5:16:07 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Erasmus

hahaha brilliant


43 posted on 02/22/2012 5:19:27 PM PST by visualops (artlife.us)
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To: dangerdoc

“I canna change the laws of physics”


44 posted on 02/22/2012 5:20:56 PM PST by visualops (artlife.us)
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To: dsrtsage

Why does movement and speed have anything to do with time.....I move at the speed of light.....so what? Time slows down for me?


45 posted on 02/22/2012 5:25:04 PM PST by IamCenny
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To: adorno
"It's true, Belly! They're discussing our old theories on the Free Republic website!"


46 posted on 02/22/2012 5:25:18 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

As I predicted.


47 posted on 02/22/2012 5:26:02 PM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: BfloGuy

LMAO!!


48 posted on 02/22/2012 5:30:50 PM PST by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

http://www.kilty.com/bulge.htm

Agreed - and that they caught it sooner rather than later. Not like the “Palmdale Bulge” described above. Surveying indicated changes in ground elevation in California, prompting fears of earthquakes, and more surveying and monitoring and millions of dollars and years of study.

“Oops - surveying errors. Sorry!”


49 posted on 02/22/2012 5:36:05 PM PST by 21twelve
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To: JRandomFreeper
Seems like measuring something FTL with non-FTL equipment is going to be a problem.

It's easier than it sounds. Send a light signal down a path at the same time the >C signal flies down the same path. Measure the difference in arrival times. Light travels about a a foot per nanosecond (10E-9). Cheap lab equipment can easily measure down to a nanosecond. Of course, more bucks, more Buck Rogers.

50 posted on 02/22/2012 5:38:48 PM PST by Mycroft Holmes (<= Mash name for HTML Xampp PHP C JavaScript primer)
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