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America 'discovered by Stone Age hunters from Europe'
Belfast Telegraph ^ | 28 Feb 2012 | David Keys

Posted on 02/28/2012 7:44:29 PM PST by Theoria

New archaeological evidence suggests that America was first discovered by Stone Age people from Europe – 10,000 years before the Siberian-originating ancestors of the American Indians set foot in the New World.

A remarkable series of several dozen European-style stone tools, dating back between 19,000 and 26,000 years, have been discovered at six locations along the US east coast. Three of the sites are on the Delmarva Peninsular in Maryland, discovered by archaeologist Dr Darrin Lowery of the University of Delaware. One is in Pennsylvania and another in Virginia. A sixth was discovered by scallop-dredging fishermen on the seabed 60 miles from the Virginian coast on what, in prehistoric times, would have been dry land.

The new discoveries are among the most important archaeological breakthroughs for several decades - and are set to add substantially to our understanding of humanity's spread around the globe.

The similarity between other later east coast US and European Stone Age stone tool technologies has been noted before. But all the US European-style tools, unearthed before the discovery or dating of the recently found or dated US east coast sites, were from around 15,000 years ago - long after Stone Age Europeans (the Solutrean cultures of France and Iberia) had ceased making such artefacts. Most archaeologists had therefore rejected any possibility of a connection. But the newly-discovered and recently-dated early Maryland and other US east coast Stone Age tools are from between 26,000 and 19,000 years ago - and are therefore contemporary with the virtually identical western European material.

What’s more, chemical analysis carried out last year on a European-style stone knife found in Virginia back in 1971 revealed that it was made of French-originating flint.

Professor Dennis Stanford, of the Smithsonian Institution in Washington DC, and Professor Bruce Bradley of the University of Exeter, the two leading archaeologists who have analysed all the evidence, are proposing that Stone Age people from Western Europe migrated to North America at the height of the Ice Age by travelling (over the ice surface and/or by boat) along the edge of the frozen northern part of the Atlantic. They are presenting their detailed evidence in a new book - Across Atlantic Ice – published this month.

At the peak of the Ice Age, around three million square miles of the North Atlantic was covered in thick ice for all or part of the year.

However, the seasonally shifting zone where the ice ended and the open ocean began would have been extremely rich in food resources – migrating seals, sea birds, fish and the now-extinct northern hemisphere penguin-like species, the great auk.

Stanford and Bradley have long argued that Stone Age humans were quite capable of making the 1500 mile journey across the Atlantic ice - but till now there was comparatively little evidence to support their thinking.

But the new Maryland, Virginia and other US east coast material, and the chemical tests on the Virginian flint knife, have begun to transform the situation. Now archaeologists are starting to investigate half a dozen new sites in Tennessee, Maryland and even Texas – and these locations are expected to produce more evidence.

Another key argument for Stanford and Bradley’s proposal is the complete absence of any human activity in north-east Siberia and Alaska prior to around 15,500 years ago. If the Maryland and other east coast people of 26,000 to 19,000 years ago had come from Asia, not Europe, early material, dating from before 19,000 years ago, should have turned up in those two northern areas, but none have been found.

Although Solutrean Europeans may well have been the first Americans, they had a major disadvantage compared to the Asian-originating Indians who entered the New World via the Bering Straits or along the Aleutian Islands chain after 15,500 years ago.

Whereas the Solutreans had only had a 4500 year long ‘Ice Age’ window to carry out their migratory activity, the Asian-originating Indians had some 15,000 years to do it. What’s more, the latter two-thirds of that 15 millennia long period was climatologically much more favourable and substantially larger numbers of Asians were therefore able to migrate.

As a result of these factors the Solutrean (European originating) Native Americans were either partly absorbed by the newcomers or were substantially obliterated by them either physically or through competition for resources.

Some genetic markers for Stone Age western Europeans simply don’t exist in north- east Asia – but they do in tiny quantities among some north American Indian groups. Scientific tests on ancient DNA extracted from 8000 year old skeletons from Florida have revealed a high level of a key probable European-originating genetic marker. There are also a tiny number of isolated Native American groups whose languages appear not to be related in any way to Asian-originating American Indian peoples.

But the greatest amount of evidence is likely to come from under the ocean – for most of the areas where the Solutreans would have stepped off the Ice onto dry land are now up to 100 miles out to sea.

The one underwater site that has been identified - thanks to the scallop dredgers – is set to be examined in greater detail this summer – either by extreme-depth divers or by remotely operated mini submarines equipped with cameras and grab arms.


TOPICS: Books/Literature; History
KEYWORDS: acrossatlanticice; atlantic; brucebradley; clovis; dennisstanford; europe; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; precolumbian; solutrean; solutreans
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Solutrean hypothesis


1 posted on 02/28/2012 7:44:32 PM PST by Theoria
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To: SunkenCiv

‘Native’.....ping.


2 posted on 02/28/2012 7:45:21 PM PST by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: Theoria

So, there is no such thing as a native American.


3 posted on 02/28/2012 7:46:35 PM PST by ReneeLynn (Socialism is SO yesterday. Fascism, it's the new black. Mmm mmm mmm...)
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To: Theoria

New “Native Americans?”


4 posted on 02/28/2012 7:47:53 PM PST by luvbach1 (Stop the destruction in 2012 or continue the decline)
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To: Theoria

Cool! Can we knock off the bogus “native American” BS now?


5 posted on 02/28/2012 7:49:07 PM PST by FlingWingFlyer (It's time for the DemocRAT voter base to start paying their "fair share" of taxes.)
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To: Theoria

The Native American’s Native American......from Europe.


6 posted on 02/28/2012 7:51:24 PM PST by Post Toasties (Leftists give insanity a bad name. 0bama: Four years of failure and fingerpointing.)
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To: Theoria
Thank you ~ 25,000 years ~ the PEAK ICE occurred just 20,000 years back, and by 14,000 years it was gone.

No doubt that situation affected the timing of European arrivals ~ some before the peak and some after ~ and one devil of a time surviving here DURING the peak.

I didn't know the Sa'ami barcode had been found in Florida DNA ~

7 posted on 02/28/2012 7:52:42 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Theoria

8 posted on 02/28/2012 7:58:33 PM PST by garjog
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To: Theoria
Read quickly through the Wiki site ~ it'll need to be updated. Two of the more troublesome details that pretty well demolish the anti-Solutrean hypothesis is that one of the major "groups" in Siberia ~ that which circles around the Yakuts in Western Siberia ~ actually has some Sa'ami background from the Ice Age.

Even though the barcode (what I call it) shows up later in America, it shows up all over North America and not at all in South America.

That peculiarity can be explained if and only if none of the Yakuts made it to Alaska! All the rest of the Amerindian background would arrive later by boat from Philippines, Japan, China, Australia, Viet Nam, and even from Eastern Siberia.

I think the ancestors of the Yakuts were away at the time making one of their hundreds of migrations South to India (opening up a paleolithic Eastern access from what became the Silk Road).

9 posted on 02/28/2012 8:04:40 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
The Atlantic crossing or similar movement can easily be seen with the The Saqqaq[Paleo-Eskimo], from Greenland; their closest living relatives are the Chukchis, people who live at the easternmost tip of Siberia..

Amazing stuff. Otzi the Iceman genome is out. Found in the border mountains of N. Italy and Austria. The closest relatives are from the Island of Sardinia.

10 posted on 02/28/2012 8:18:44 PM PST by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: Theoria

Stefanson lived on the ice of the Beaufort Sea continuously for three years. Freuchen crossed from Greenland to Canada on the ice.

I’m sure that stone age seal hunters with dogs could have made it even if 90% of them perished on the way.


11 posted on 02/28/2012 8:24:26 PM PST by darth
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To: garjog



12 posted on 02/28/2012 8:29:58 PM PST by campaignPete R-CT (and I went to southern Maine to campaign against MITT.)
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To: Theoria
Time for reparations. Maybe start by getting the $24.00 back.

13 posted on 02/28/2012 8:34:15 PM PST by I see my hands (It's time to.. KICK OUT THE JAMS, MOTHER FREEPERS!)
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To: Southside_Chicago_Republican

Later


14 posted on 02/28/2012 8:41:42 PM PST by Southside_Chicago_Republican
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To: Theoria

later


15 posted on 02/28/2012 8:47:33 PM PST by Ditter
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To: Theoria

btt-later


16 posted on 02/28/2012 9:05:40 PM PST by Noob1999 (Loose Lips, Sink Ships)
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To: Theoria
A 2003 article by Sanford:

Immigrants From The Other Side (Clovis Is Solutrean?)

" Scientific tests on ancient DNA extracted from 8000 year old skeletons from Florida have revealed a high level of a key probable European-originating genetic marker. There are also a tiny number of isolated Native American groups whose languages appear not to be related in any way to Asian-originating American Indian peoples. "

Bye, Bye Beringia (8,000 Year Old Site In Florida)

"*90 intact human brains that include the oldest DNA samples in the World."

Iberia, Not Siberia

17 posted on 02/28/2012 9:22:23 PM PST by blam
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To: Theoria
"Amazing stuff. Otzi the Iceman genome is out. Found in the border mountains of N. Italy and Austria. The closest relatives are from the Island of Sardinia. "

Excellent reading, thanks.

Ancient DNA

18 posted on 02/28/2012 9:30:39 PM PST by blam
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To: Theoria; blam; Fred Nerks; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks Theoria.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


19 posted on 02/29/2012 4:32:56 AM PST by SunkenCiv (FReep this FReepathon!)
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To: muawiyah; SunkenCiv

Have you read Dale Drinnon’s recent blogs on “Migration of the Uralic Peoples”?

http://frontiers-of-anthropology.blogspot.com/2012/01/more-on-uralics-part-1.html

http://frontiers-of-anthropology.blogspot.com/2011/03/megalith-builders-red-paint-people-and.html

http://frontiers-of-anthropology.blogspot.com/search/label/Uralic%20Languages

http://frontiers-of-anthropology.blogspot.com/search/label/Solutrean%20Crossing


20 posted on 02/29/2012 5:22:45 AM PST by Renfield (Turning apples into venison since 1999!)
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To: muawiyah; SunkenCiv

Also this one:

http://frontiers-of-anthropology.blogspot.com/2012/02/american-cromagnons-archaics-and.html


21 posted on 02/29/2012 6:30:20 AM PST by Renfield (Turning apples into venison since 1999!)
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To: Theoria

This has been coming for a long time. Kennewick Man and its immediate seizure by “Native Americans” for reburial is just part of their frantic attempt to preserve the discredited theory that the first Americans were Asian peoples who crossed the Alaskan land bridge. More and more we are finding that the first Americans were from Europe. Of course, that is unacceptable to the politically correct affirmative action pimps.


22 posted on 02/29/2012 7:12:59 AM PST by pabianice (")
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To: Post Toasties
The Native American’s Native American......from Europe.

Not so fast. All Europeans are "out of Africa," so "Native Americans" are really African-Americans. I get dizzy from all the politically-correct BS. Time for another cup of coffee.

23 posted on 02/29/2012 8:30:07 AM PST by Bernard Marx
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To: pabianice
Vintage Skulls

"Of additional significance is the shape of the skulls, which are described as long and narrow, very unlike those of modern Native Americans."

24 posted on 02/29/2012 10:51:49 AM PST by blam
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To: muawiyah
...25,000 years ~ the PEAK ICE occurred just 20,000 years back, and by 14,000 years it was gone.

You would likely get some argument from OTHERS about that:

Roughly 26,000 years ago, the glaciers of the Northern Hemisphere had reached their maximum size before beginning to melt — a point that scientists call the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM). At the LGM, the Earth’s ocean levels were at their lowest point and extensive reaches of dry land were exposed along the continents’ coasts.

I happened to run across something I wasn't aware of(not the first time) concerning exploration of North America's continental shelf. Dr. Adovasio(of Medowcraft fame) has been systematically SURVEYING AND SAMPLING OFF WESTERN FLORIDA since 2008. His mission -- primarily to find evidence of human occupation during the last ice age. There of course have been "accidental" discoveries on our continental shelf going back decades but he(amongst others maybe?) has apparently been able to acquire the necessary resources to do some serious exploration.

Not much but, the LATEST. BTW, don't do any "News" searches about his work. You'll find absolutely NOTHING.

25 posted on 02/29/2012 11:26:29 AM PST by ForGod'sSake (You have only two choices: SUBMIT or RESIST with everything you've got!!!)
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To: ForGod'sSake
When it comes to the Ice Age there's this problem of Maximum Ice ~ and that can be Maximum extent or Maximum weight.

Extent is easiest to measure. Weight is the most difficult ~ until we get the ground penetrating radar down tight and then we can figure that out by measuring acceleration at depth ~ dirt and rocks move aside due to the weight of the ice.

I've only seen one good one so far and that was the use of ground penetrating radar combined with other methods to take a look at the tectonic plates sitting on top the plume that provides the heat for the magma that fires up Yellowstone. Geology had that one within the last year I believe ~ kept it near the family throne room to make sure I could read it all.

Let's say Maximum ice is not all that PrecICE.

Which brings up something else ~ the archeology shows two thrusts ~ which makes sense ~ if you have Maximum Ice and giant ice flows are putting out to see you might not be able to cross the Atlantic. Both before that time and after that time you should be able to do that ~ particularly if you are adapted to eat vast amounts of seal meat.

26 posted on 02/29/2012 12:25:52 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: FlingWingFlyer

My ancestors came here from Ireland, but I call myself
“native American” because I was born in America.


27 posted on 02/29/2012 12:33:48 PM PST by Bigg Red (Pray for our republic.)
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To: Theoria
Siberian-originating ancestors of the American Indians set foot in the New World.

Of course this is BS too. Read Red Earth, White Lies: Native Americans and the Myth of Scientific Fact by Vine Delora.

ML/NJ

28 posted on 02/29/2012 3:45:26 PM PST by ml/nj
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To: muawiyah
I suppose WHEN the maximum occurred is an academic exercise in any case. It's my understanding during the last ice age the ice sheets sortof ebbed and flowed, so to speak.

I don't know it you've ever looked closely at a shaded relief map of America del Norte or not, but in particular around the southern edges of the Great Lakes you'll find what appear to be numerous "terminal" moraines. That would indicate to me that most likely the ice sheets' "flows" became smaller and smaller as they gradually retreated in fits and spurts overall. Maybe not but that's the way it looks to me...

29 posted on 02/29/2012 4:13:24 PM PST by ForGod'sSake (You have only two choices: SUBMIT or RESIST with everything you've got!!!)
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To: ForGod'sSake
The Great Lakes ended up having very high levels, and then a moraine dam somewhere would break and that'd drain the lake down several dozen feet, and then that would happen again, and again.

Each time the lake dropped you got a new beach, and additional indentations in the very large terminal moraines at the margins.

BTW, Lake Erie's last big drop was only 4,000 years ago. Virtually NO American Indian settlements were built in the muck area left behind that extended from Ohio through North Central Indiana. That area is still drying out!

Most of the big changes we can see today are a consequence of the movement of water, not ice. The Ice was mostly gone 14,000 years ago but came back in the Younger Dryas ~ which is a totally separate topic ~ but that happened AFTER humans had started moving to America, and may well have wiped almost all of them out ~

30 posted on 02/29/2012 4:38:51 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: ml/nj
There are alternate points of view, but we have handaxes, stone knives, and the X-Factor gene sequence to account for.

Br'r Delora has a different agenda than science.

The fact he wants to lift the blame from Indians for wiping out the megafauna means he hasn't got a good grasp on the situation.

Fact is the Younger Dryas probably killed the megafauna. First the ice melted and vast grasslands filled in South of the melt. The megafauna moved North to eat the new grass and escape the encroaching forest lands. The big cats went with them.

Then, one day, the Younger Dryas happened in a flash, and the ice age conditions came back instantly.

The megafauna could not flee South fast enough and they and the cats that lived on them ALL FROZE TO DEATH if they didn't simply starve.

The greater part of the ancestry of the American Indians came here only 5,000 years ago ~ the megafauna had been dead for 6,000 years by then!

That's why the Indians aren't guilty.

31 posted on 02/29/2012 4:47:34 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
Have a look at THIS to see if we're discussing the same thing. Off the southern end of Lake Michigan are what appear to be and I've seen described as terminal moraines; lots of them. We would need a topographic map to check elevations that would help determine if these are beaches or moraines. Also, next door in Iowa there appears to be two or three terminal moraines. At least they have the classic appearance of moraines. Similar situation to the SSW of Lake Erie.

BTW, I've got a huge version of this map on my computer for the whole of North America; all 54Meg of it that I can't locate on the web any more...

32 posted on 02/29/2012 5:13:18 PM PST by ForGod'sSake (You have only two choices: SUBMIT or RESIST with everything you've got!!!)
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To: ForGod'sSake
Lake Michigan has a LARGE area of DUNES around the Southern end.

This is windblown sand ~ the City of Chicago is built on top of massive dunes pushed over into the lake. Indiana's dunes are still mostly there, and there are some large ones in Michigan too.

South of the dunes it's REALLY FLAT ~ and I mean flat ~ like lake bottom.

I took a look on Google.earth to see what it was your pictures showed, and that's THE DUNES.

Try this: http://www.msue.msu.edu/objects/content_revision/download.cfm/item_id.211898/workspace_id.26697/How%20The%20Great%20Lakes%20Were%20Formed%20(Video).swf/

33 posted on 02/29/2012 5:53:13 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Michigan has sleeping Bear Dunes....state park...I climbed those things with my 5 kids. They got to the top fast and the older one’s came down and dragged their poor mother up to the top as a couple disappeared over the top of the dunes and I was afraid I’d lose them....they were the younger 3...climbing dunes sucks......GG that was about 44 years ago..


34 posted on 02/29/2012 6:12:22 PM PST by goat granny
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To: muawiyah
Cool. For another take on moraines; terminal or otherwise, CLICK the pic:


35 posted on 02/29/2012 6:20:57 PM PST by ForGod'sSake (You have only two choices: SUBMIT or RESIST with everything you've got!!!)
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To: ForGod'sSake
There are all sorts of large features in the Midwest that were caused by the various glacial advances. The Antarctic ice cores tell us there've been about 20 of them ~ so sometime in the ancient past enormous glaciers filled in Indiana all the waySouth to the shale hillls at Brown County, and at other times enormous glaciers stopped at Chicago, and the area immediately to the South became an immense arctic desert ~ with the grasslands starting about as far South as the present route of the Tethys (or Ohio River).

Because the glaciers are so devastatingly huge little is left behind from earlier glacial periods ~ most of what we see is pretty recent. The Great Lakes are, so far, believed to be of recent origin. HOWEVER, there are all sorts of volcanic vents throughout the Midwest that are buried with dirt pushed in by the glaciers. Most people don't know they are there unless they happen to tap in for free heat and hot water. One large vent is actually at the East End of Lake Superior!

Beneath all of that is a mountain range entombed in vast shale and limestone deposits ~ and compounding that are a couple of major faults ~ one 17 miles deep under the route of the Mississippi, and other less deep called the Carmel Fault which runs through Southern Indiana to roughly Indianapolis/Carmel.

These features are left over from a time when the proto-North American continent was splitting in two ~ like the Afars region and the Great Rift Valley in Africa.

In between there are oil bearing shales, and even a range of shale running about 150 miles North to South bisecting Indiana, and underlying the region about 20 miles wide ~ and it has vast but currently untapped uranium deposits.

This region could eventually be put to use providing America all the energy it will ever need.

36 posted on 02/29/2012 6:22:01 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: ForGod'sSake
Some of those moraines are ENORMOUS~ly wide ~ and just a few hundred feet high. There's a moraine near Bloomington Illinois that's wide and tall ~ and covered with windmills.

Some of the moraines in Northern Indiana and Ohio are flat out invisible to all but the most practiced eye.

37 posted on 02/29/2012 6:25:42 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: pabianice

So, basically, the current grief mongers and dispensation demanders are the descendants of those who drove my own ancestors out of our adopted “native land” of north America?

I demand reparations.

The interest on a debt that is tens of thousands of years old must be massive. I want my own personal casino as repayment!


38 posted on 02/29/2012 6:35:01 PM PST by Grimmy (equivocation is but the first step along the road to capitulation)
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To: Theoria; SunkenCiv

The Solutrean hypothesis builds on similarities between the Solutrean industry and the later Clovis culture / Clovis points of North America, and suggests that people with Solutrean tool-technology crossed the Ice Age Atlantic by moving along the pack ice edge, using survival skills similar to that of modern Eskimo people. The migrants arrived in northeastern North America and served as the donor culture for what eventually developed into Clovis tool-making technology.

Archaeologists Dennis Stanford and Bruce Bradley suggest that the Clovis point derived from the points of the Solutrean culture of southern France (19,000BP) through the Cactus Hill points of Virginia (16,000BP) to the Clovis point.[1][2] This would mean that people would have had to move from the Bay of Biscay across the edge of the Atlantic ice sheet to North America. Supporters of this hypothesis believe it would have been feasible using traditional Eskimo techniques still in use today,[1] while others argue that the conditions at the time would not have made such a journey likely.[3]


39 posted on 02/29/2012 8:55:47 PM PST by wildbill (You're just jealous because the Voices talk only to me.)
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To: wildbill

Thanks wildbill!


40 posted on 02/29/2012 9:09:51 PM PST by SunkenCiv (FReep this FReepathon!)
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Across Atlantic Ice: The Origin of Americas Clovis Culture Across Atlantic Ice:
The Origin of America's Clovis Culture

by Dennis J. Stanford
and Bruce A. Bradley
foreword by Michael B. Collins


41 posted on 02/29/2012 9:10:03 PM PST by SunkenCiv (FReep this FReepathon!)
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To: muawiyah

5,000 years ?

That is new evidence?

Whoah!

Could you lead me to a link ?

Most interesting!


42 posted on 03/02/2012 1:31:02 AM PST by happygrl
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To: happygrl

http://www.merrittruhlen.com/files/1998c.pdf ~ first piece is nothing new. This was published in 1998 ~ there were a lot of other reports along this line going all the way back into the 1960s. In later literature you’ll read about the three major migrations ~ but you must remember if each one of them involved just 100 people the current population levels would still depend more on the breeding success of the descendants than on how many showed up at first landing.


43 posted on 03/02/2012 4:48:55 AM PST by muawiyah
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44 posted on 03/02/2012 11:09:54 AM PST by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: SunkenCiv

Posting to you for your archive, rather than as a separate thread:

Radical theory of first Americans places Stone Age Europeans in Delmarva 20,000 years ago

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/radical-theory-of-first-americans-places-stone-age-europeans-in-delmarva-20000-years-ago/2012/02/28/gIQA4mriiR_story.html


45 posted on 03/02/2012 7:18:12 PM PST by ApplegateRanch (If any of their "Alternatives" actually works, the Greenies will proceed to kill it.)
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To: Theoria

Just heard of this early last week.
Sadly, it will take a generation or three to make any impact on science. The current PC culture would destroy any research in this area.


46 posted on 03/02/2012 8:19:05 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Theoria

47 posted on 03/03/2012 12:43:06 AM PST by Main Street (Stuck in traffic.)
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To: ApplegateRanch

It could be a standalone topic, thanks! I’ll check it out.


48 posted on 03/03/2012 8:52:12 AM PST by SunkenCiv (FReep this FReepathon!)
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To: Theoria

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2012/03/tracking-japans-tsunami-debris.html ~ coming from the other end of the Old World watch these various debris field movements from the Fukushima Tsunami ~ see how easy it is to ‘splain both the Haida and Tlingit Indians ~ and Japanese settlers in Central America. Now, imagine the same thing happening in the Atlantic in the Azores on a recurring basis. Nobody at all really has to walk!


49 posted on 03/10/2012 5:51:31 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Being stranded on floating debris, traveling across the pacific ocean. That would make an incredible book or movie.

50 posted on 03/13/2012 11:09:42 AM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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