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'Tix Fix' In Reverse. Some NYPD cops ‘lie’ in court to avoid pay dock
NY Post ^ | 3/4/2012 | Brad Hamilton

Posted on 03/04/2012 8:47:19 PM PST by GreaterSwiss

Cops deemed to not have performed well risk losing as many as 10 vacation days or two weeks pay, sources said. “They manage this through a spirit of fear,” said one veteran cop. “Maybe the officer doesn’t present his testimony good enough. So they say, ‘OK, we’re going to take a week’s pay from you.’ ” The result is higher conviction rates — and a tense atmosphere in which officers sometimes falsify their notes and don’t tell the truth in court to avoid being punished, police and defense lawyers say. Defense lawyers say sympathetic judges even coach cops on what to say. “They see these cops every day, and they get to know them,” said one. “If a guy’s going to get into trouble, it’s, like, ‘I don’t want to let that happen.’ ”

(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: corrup; corruption; criminalclass; criminalnonjustice; donutwatch; injusticesystem; justussystem; nypd; policestate; policethuggery
3 years ago I got a false seat belt ticket by NYPD copy Mohammad Habib. He didn't remember anything on the stand (I had people with me in car, his partner threatened me for asking his name, his vision, if he was wearing glasses, but remember I didn't have a seat belt from a year prior, which was perjury.

I took off a day of work (which cost more than the ticket) and had 2 witnesses to prove to my then 12 yr old nephew about the court system. It was my nephew who was threatened with a ticket for asking the officer's name.

I called the civilian complaint commission who told me since we were the same race they weren't interested. I emailed internal affairs who got back to me a month later, 11:30PM on New Years eve and then 6am new years morning. When I called a few days later as I returned from vacation I was told the case was closed since I didn't answer the phone or return their call right away. They wouldn't reopen it unless I emailed, and then got back to me a YEAR later. At that point the fix was in.

1 posted on 03/04/2012 8:47:27 PM PST by GreaterSwiss
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To: GreaterSwiss

Some Cops Lie?? Sometimes?? Was this written by a third grader?? All Cops Lie All the Time.


2 posted on 03/04/2012 9:00:41 PM PST by eyeamok
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To: GreaterSwiss

The police chiefs who wish this regime on the patrol cops are invariably far more leftist than the latter.


3 posted on 03/04/2012 9:02:14 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: GreaterSwiss

I heard honest one day... ‘Why are you doing this?!? You work for me!’ said a motorist who was ticked off at getting a ticket for ‘running a red light’ when the signal lasted for all of three seconds, changing too quickly for them to be able to stop.

The cop replied, ‘Hey, buddy, we get half of our funding from fines - I’m just making payroll.’

The standard scam goes on in the court room, where so long as the motorist pays the fine, and goes to traffic school, the ticket won’t count against their record (and the corresponding raise in insurance rates.) Of course, if you /dare/ fight it, you get to pony up the fine, plus the court costs, and the judge makes it pretty clear - if you’re found guilty, the traffic school option is out the window, you get the mark on your driving record, and that can be a very very expensive mark.

And on the day you fight, in file the cops, you can see on the faces of the many who hope their officer doesn’t show up, but as each walks in, you see more faces fall, and the deep thoughts at the ground. Until the last walks in, the one who is infamous for stalking drivers to give tickets, whom most of the people in the room are there for. These are usually the first to stand when the judge asks at the start if anyone has reconsidered the plea and wishes to take advantage of the traffic school option.

Pretty much from there, only two or three are left, and they’re resigned to the impending results.

Yep, watching traffic court one day was an eye opener. Our government no longer works for us, we work for them, and we dance for them to entertain them.


4 posted on 03/04/2012 9:27:13 PM PST by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
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To: GreaterSwiss

It’s a good article, because it reminds us that it’s important to realize that “crooked cops” aren’t the heart of the problem, the “crooked system” is. The cops are crooked in order to satisfy the demands of their precinct commanders, who are crooked in order to satisfy the demands of the police chiefs, who are crooked in order to satisfy the demands of the city officials, who are crooked in order to pander to voters, rake in citation income, and satisfy the demands of the Feds who are doling out the pork.

Even if we fired every single crooked beat cop, their replacements would turn out to be just as crooked, because it’s a systemic problem. Law enforcement needs to be divorced from funding based on the number of citations, arrests, convictions, or amount of property confiscated, otherwise it will just spiral further and further out of control. We are just subsidizing the bad behavior, and if you subsidize something, you will get more of it.


5 posted on 03/04/2012 9:39:00 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: GreaterSwiss

It’s called “testilying”.

Plaintiff lawyers hire “expert witnesses” to do it all the time.


6 posted on 03/04/2012 9:40:07 PM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: GreaterSwiss

How can you live with yourself when you are knowingly stealing and harassing innocent people daily? It takes a specific twisted personality to do this job daily and be ok with it.


7 posted on 03/04/2012 10:02:04 PM PST by AlmaKing
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To: AlmaKing

To them, it’s not their responsibility to be honest. Getting it past the judge is all that counts, then they have passed the buck.


8 posted on 03/04/2012 10:08:56 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: GreaterSwiss

Welcome to the real world of TESTILYING, nothing new, only that as more people become mugged by this disease, the more people will decide just how much, is too much!

I first learned of this way, way, back in early 1970”s (ex - wife’s) father, was stationed in 75th precinct in the Bronx, (N.Y.N.Y.) First name was Alfonse, although he was a Loud & Proud German, I believe a.k.a. Fort Apache, The Bronx’s.

Alan Dershowitz Reference: “TESTILYING” December 1, 1998
http://www.constitution.org/lrev/dershowitz_test_981201.htm
See also below
http://www.soc.umn.edu/~samaha/cases/slobogin,%20testilying.htm
(Cite as: 67 U. Colo. L. Rev. 1037)
University of Colorado Law Review
Fall 1996
Reform
The Police
*1037 TESTILYING: POLICE PERJURY AND WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT


9 posted on 03/04/2012 10:43:34 PM PST by Stanwood_Dave ("Testilying." Cop's don't lie, they just Testily{ing} as taught in their respected Police Academy.)
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To: GreaterSwiss

Any thread i mention how corrupt cops in NYC are i have to deal with those who think i’m a bad conservative for saying so.
Our cops here are a criminal class unto themselves.
Our judges are no better.
Waiting for the flaming.


10 posted on 03/05/2012 3:04:34 AM PST by wiggen (The teacher card. When the racism card just won't work.)
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To: Neidermeyer

placemark ping...


11 posted on 03/05/2012 3:56:33 AM PST by Neidermeyer
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To: Boogieman

With all due respect, I think you are missing too big a piece of the picture for me to not comment. You said:

“...it’s important to realize that ‘crooked cops’ aren’t the heart of the problem, the ‘crooked system’ is.”

I submit that you may not understand that police work (authority) is inherently corruptive in nature. The very foundation of our government is that THE PEOPLE are the government. Not politicians. We have drifted far from the Constitutional Republic afforded us by our Founding Fathers, but that doesn’t mean that this type of thing was not forseen.

The fact is, that EVERY step of the process was supposed to involve players from the general public, not life long politicians, and that includes municipal (corporate, for hire) police. Citizens are meant to police themselves. They even have the power to arrest. Police are meant to enforce the law, as a county Sheriff is [supposed to be] a citizen chosen by his peers by a once-in-4-years election to do full time police work, and be swapped out with ALL his deputies (whenever the new sheriff chooses) at the leisure of the people. We now have unionized thugs, responsible to know one, and with lifetime superior status.

What kind of effect does this superiority bring. See: “The Stanford Studies.” It doesn’t matter who you are, if you’re given complete authority over another person, you’re GOING to abuse them. Now, you may not see it as abuse, because you’ll get a demented mind, but the fact is, your sense of reality becomes warped. Rare, and I mean virtually nonexistent, is the (wo)man who will not abuse authority when it’s thrusted upon him/her. And those (wo)men are the ones who don’t want authority in the first place, they want to be left alone. But when the need requires them to take up authority, they throw it down just as quickly as they can.

Therefore, I submit to you, that while you do mention several factors that multiple this fundamental human issue, you may not have considered the real issue. Government, whether it be the executive, legislative, or judicial branch, is not mean to be a lifetime, and never-ending, position of power. If we had true representation at the Federal level (our true number of U.S. House Reps should number in the 1,000’s, and our Senators should be revokable, pre-17th amendment), then laws would better reflect the wiull of the people, and judges and presidents would be far more likely to be impeached if the people wanted that.

The truth is, the statists want to consolidate as much power in as few people that can be bought with as little money (or additional power, if you will) as possible. That’s all it took to create the police state we live in. If you didn’t know, video games were invented to get people to kill one another (WW2, I believe was the starting point). Now we have a generation of people raised on video games, who’s ultimate fantasy is to kill someone in a contest that show’s who’s the bigger “man.” (And women who show want to show that they can handle the men, the “feminazis.”) What does it take to buy these cretins off? A gun and a badge. But wait, now they have tanks, full riot gear, nifty gagetry that can see through walls, hear conversations by pointing lasers at windows, see you naked. Add to that drones that can peak at you from the sky, frisking women (I had busty friend who was repeatedly frisked by several male officers on several occasions, with several people witnessing it, but unable to do anything because of the police state we live in.)

Unfortunately, it’s going to take some real solutions to get rid of this issue, not chatting. We need full representation in Congress, we need to break up all municipal police departments, and we need an involved public. People are not going to tolerate abuse forever. Term limits on all police officers should be imposed, and a relative number of short years fixed as the term. ZERO pensions for them either. No government job should carry a pension, EVER. No insurance or any other way to sap the people. Pay them a wage affixed to the jobs of the public. Police work is not difficult, technology has made it child’s play. Police work is not dangerous, not even in the top ten most dangerous jobs. Cops aren’t risking their lives for anyone. In places that are really dangerous (a la Oakland), they either don’t go in, or go in with something like a tank, and full tactical gear.

No, no. In order to fix the police problem, we need to revert police back to Constitutionally-minded bounds. The nature of corruption must be understood, or else it just happens over and over. The Founding Fathers understood these issues, but gave us the rope (leeway) to proverbially hang ourselves so that if we became apathetic, we’d pay the piper. Now we are reaping the whirlwind. THe day we traded liberty (policing ourselve) for security (allowing thugs to ravish us like wolves) was the day we got neither. And that day is today.


12 posted on 03/05/2012 4:15:01 AM PST by JDW11235 (http://www.thirty-thousand.org/)
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To: GreaterSwiss
At that point the fix was in.

nope, the fix was in the second he looked your way and decided it was your turn...

many years ago, an old retired city cop advised me as i condisered applying to the department, that they dont have quoats, but to make sure that i wrote enuff to keep from gettin sh!t duty in the ghetto...

13 posted on 03/05/2012 5:53:40 AM PST by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: kingu

dont forget that occifer finely gets paid extra for every testimony in that court too...


14 posted on 03/05/2012 5:56:59 AM PST by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: GreaterSwiss

I’ve gotten one moving violation ticket in my entire life.It was in a rich,left wing suburb of Boston (is there any other kind?) and it was Barbara Streisand.So I fought it in court and was found “not resonsible” because I was able to give the judge a newspapers clipping from the day before showing that that town’s police chief had a quota for writing tickets...it even had a copy of the internal memo that had been leaked to the paper.


15 posted on 03/05/2012 6:55:05 AM PST by Gay State Conservative (Massachusetts...proud home of *two* of Obama's illegal alien relatives!)
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To: GreaterSwiss
The general M.O. of LEO’s is to find someone they think is guilty of a crime - and then FRAME THEM. This usually entails a great deal of perjury - and LEO’s learn early and often that they must ‘go along to get along’ as far as perjuring themselves - early and often.

Refuse to blatantly perjure yourself to incriminate someone? Welcome to being a bike cop, or other undesirable or less desirable positions. Now they just dock your pay if you don't perjure yourself adequately - nice to know their techniques are being refined.

16 posted on 03/05/2012 7:04:32 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: JDW11235

Well said.


17 posted on 03/05/2012 7:16:07 AM PST by Altariel ("Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!")
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To: Altariel

Thanks, and thanks for not minding the typos.


18 posted on 03/05/2012 7:21:42 AM PST by JDW11235 (http://www.thirty-thousand.org/)
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To: AlmaKing
How can you live with yourself when you are knowingly stealing and harassing innocent people daily?

They relieve that stress by shooting the odd dog every now and then.

19 posted on 03/05/2012 7:44:28 AM PST by Moltke (Always retaliate first.)
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To: Stanwood_Dave

75 pct is in B’KLYN- 42 Known as ft Apache is in the Bx


20 posted on 03/05/2012 7:56:10 AM PST by capt B
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To: All

any police officer who arrests first in order to let the judge sort them out BEFORE thinking SHOULD be sued personally.

You should have seen the absolute panic in FL when local officials realized they were PERSONALLY and CRIMINALLY liable for passing “feel good” gun laws.

Why are not all police stops recorded?


21 posted on 03/05/2012 8:18:56 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: GreaterSwiss

A NYPD beat cop has a starting salary of $34970 , plus some nice bennies, but the bennies are not cash.

When you are only making $34970 and the DA and Desk Sarge are going to dock a weeks pay, that is the difference between making rent or getting evicted.

Especially so now in the Bloomberg recession belt tightening as overtime has been severely limited and is on a seniority basis.

NYPD has been fake ticketing for over a hundred years... they might have been polished up after 9/11 with $50B in Federal taxpayer money, but they are still for the most part just the largest gang in the city.


22 posted on 03/05/2012 8:23:11 AM PST by JerseyHighlander
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To: Boogieman

In Michigan funding from traffic tickets go to the courts and a portion to the state. There is a small pittence left over that can only be given to the municipal general fund or to the library system.
The rules are very tight so most municipalities elect to have the funds go to the library. The biggest reason though is that it takes the ‘funding’ issue off the table.

Most of the current fine structure in my county is set up to fund the COURTS, not the police. The courts tacked on $25.00 to each ticket a few years ago in order to hire another clerk. They have since upped that amount.

For instance, the standard for 5 over is $100.00 in Michigan. My daughter just got a ticket and her fine is $135.00. The difference is funding the local court.


23 posted on 03/05/2012 8:34:07 AM PST by midcop402
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To: GreaterSwiss

There are only TWO types of cops:

Bad Cops and those who are not YET Bad Cops. And the later is only a matter of time. They will resign and do something else, or they will BECOME criminals.

There are NO Good Cops. “Oath Keepers” is a myth. A hopeful fantasy at best. We ARE a fascist state.


24 posted on 03/05/2012 9:13:31 AM PST by Waywardson (Carry on! Nothing equals the splendor!)
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To: kingu
And on the day you fight, in file the cops, you can see on the faces of the many who hope their officer doesn’t show up, but as each walks in, you see more faces fall, and the deep thoughts at the ground.

On the day, long ago when a serious traffic violation (one which, frankly, could not be done with my vehicle) ticket came up in court, the officer was NOT present, instead of dismissing, the judge found me guilty and applied a low fine. I appealed, and lost (sort of, fine from the lower court stood, no court costs).

The ordinance was a 'gotcha', with no intent required, a mechanical malfunction could result in the same conviction, solely at the discretion of the officer, who did show up for the appeal and, frankly, lied his arse off.

At least the appeals judge was savvy enough to recognize that.

25 posted on 03/05/2012 9:42:50 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: JDW11235
Police are meant to enforce the law, as a county Sheriff is [supposed to be] a citizen chosen by his peers by a once-in-4-years election to do full time police work, and be swapped out with ALL his deputies (whenever the new sheriff chooses) at the leisure of the people. We now have unionized thugs, responsible to know one, and with lifetime superior status.

Going back to the elected county sheriff system would not be perfect either. In places like Detroit, the people who elect him would have him not investigate crimes against disfavored minorities (namely the few remaining middle-class white folks). Then again, if we abolished state and federal welfare programs and grants, then no locality could survive having more than a small percent being of the welfare class.

26 posted on 03/05/2012 1:18:14 PM PST by PapaBear3625 (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell)
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To: PapaBear3625

Oh, I agree, on both points. No system is perfect, but some are better than others (and in certains circumstances they can swap, there’s an exception to every earthly rule). We already have police chiefs doing exactly what you described, in fact we have a federal Attorney General (!) doing that. Not to mention the LA (IIRC) police chief refusing to arrest illegals, etc., etc. No system is perfect, as I said, but the less bureaucracy and (corresponding) unionized government thugs, the better.


27 posted on 03/05/2012 2:34:47 PM PST by JDW11235 (http://www.thirty-thousand.org/)
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To: Waywardson

Wow, boy are you on target. I had several people I went to high school with become cops. To my knowledge every single one of them left after a few years because they couldn’t handle the corruption (they specifically stated that when asked why they left). Many/Most joined the military afterwards, a few did other things.


28 posted on 03/05/2012 2:37:52 PM PST by JDW11235 (http://www.thirty-thousand.org/)
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To: AlmaKing
How can you live with yourself when you are knowingly stealing and harassing innocent people daily? It takes a specific twisted personality to do this job daily and be ok with it.

Funny, I just saw this addressed the other day:

http://www.theagitator.com/2012/03/05/durham-loses-another-prosecutor/

Public choice theory tells us that public officials don’t magically start behaving selflessly and altruistically simply because they’ve chosen a career in public service. They’ll still act in their own interest most of the time, as we all do. That’s not an indictment of public service. It’s a recognition of human nature, and how we’re hard-wired. In terms of policy, it’s prescribes that we design our institutions in a way that accounts for how people actually behave, not for an idealized version of how we hope they’ll behave. The left tends to dismiss public choice theory outright. The right tends to believe it’s applicable to all areas of public service except law enforcement and criminal justice.

29 posted on 03/07/2012 2:35:12 PM PST by Forgotten Amendments (Sheep and insects need leaders.)
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To: Forgotten Amendments
These are generalizations, of course. There are exceptions on both sides. But good people don’t thrive in systems with bad incentives. You either attract bad actors, turn good actors into bad ones, or the good actors drop out, leaving you only with the bad ones.
30 posted on 03/07/2012 3:12:26 PM PST by Forgotten Amendments (Sheep and insects need leaders.)
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To: capt B

Thanks for the correction, but as I said early 1970’s (almost 40 year’s ago.) I notice that you go by “capt b” were you a fireman or a cop by chance, and not to publish to the world ex-wife’s father last name, now deceased, but if you possibly knew him, a hint at part of his last name, let’s just say, no “such” thing.


31 posted on 03/09/2012 10:34:47 PM PST by Stanwood_Dave ("Testilying." Cop's don't lie, they just Testily{ing} as taught in their respected Police Academy.)
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