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BYU study: Guns don't give people advantage during a bear encounter
Deseret News ^ | March 8, 2012

Posted on 03/08/2012 10:58:38 PM PST by Zakeet

Conventional wisdom isn't always based on common sense, and sometimes isn't even based on real data, especially when it comes to animals of mythological proportions like bears.

BYU wildlife biologist Tom Smith wants to change that.

A new study suggests that one of the most commonly suggested deterrents against bears in the wild — guns — actually won't protect people any better than not using a gun.

"It really isn't about the kind of gun you carry,” he said. “It's about how you carry yourself. We need to respect an animal that could potentially take our lives."

[Snip]

This isn't the first time Smith has had a study showing that guns aren't as effective against bears as generally believed. In 2008, Smith released a study saying that bear spray is more effective than guns.

Part of the problem is that shooting accurately is very difficult in a terrifying situation like having a giant animal charging at you. Even if you do kill the bear, that's still a problem, given declining populations and the the loss of what a bear can contribute both economically and ecologically.

"It's a conservation issue in that we'll see needless bear mortalities," Smith said.

(Excerpt) Read more at deseretnews.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Outdoors
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; banglist; bear; guns; hunting
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The Looney Left is right ... you Freepers don't need your #%&*# guns when you go hunting ... cause the professor has proven that if you ever face a bear like this one, a simple squirt of pepper spray will convince the beast not to kill you.

1 posted on 03/08/2012 10:58:41 PM PST by Zakeet
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To: Zakeet

What utter hogwash!


2 posted on 03/08/2012 11:01:40 PM PST by DarthVader (Politicians govern out of self interest, Statesmen govern for a Vision greater than themselves)
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To: Zakeet

This guy is so full of it, he has agenda smears in his shorts.


3 posted on 03/08/2012 11:07:08 PM PST by Valpal1
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To: Zakeet

I have a can of bear spray. I use it when I walk my dog.

Got menaced up close and personal bout 3 months back down a lonely road by a massive pitbull that made my 100lb. german shepard look small.

The dog stood about 5 feet away from me. I pulled the can, shook it, sprayed, and the cone dissapated before it ever hit the dog. It missed. However, the spray action itself seemd to convince the dog to leave.

Lucky us.

If I go in the woods, I’m bringing my rifle and my .44 magnum.

That is all.


4 posted on 03/08/2012 11:08:01 PM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: Zakeet

As I recall, you should wear bells to scare the bear off. /s


5 posted on 03/08/2012 11:10:17 PM PST by mkmensinger
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To: Zakeet
“It's about how you carry yourself. We need to respect an animal that could potentially take our lives."

Timothy Treadwell Syndrome needs to be classified as a mental illness.

6 posted on 03/08/2012 11:12:03 PM PST by denydenydeny (The more a system is all about equality in theory the more it's an aristocracy in practice.)
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To: Zakeet

They do have a point. If you don’t have the right firearm all you’ll do is anger the bear, especially a brown bear. IIRC correctly Lewis and Clark record in their journals how their men found their firearms couldn’t take down one. And who can forget Jeremiah Johnson always trying to find a .50 cal rifle?


7 posted on 03/08/2012 11:12:51 PM PST by chargers fan
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To: Zakeet
"Even if you do kill the bear, that's still a problem, given declining populations.."

If it were true that bear spray would save my life more reliably than a gun I'd be glad to learn. But these jerk's priorities are so bizarre you can't believe a word they say.


8 posted on 03/08/2012 11:15:31 PM PST by I see my hands (It's time to.. KICK OUT THE JAMS, MOTHER FREEPERS!)
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To: Zakeet
“It's about how you carry yourself

hmm I guess he misinterpreted the saying loaded for bear....

9 posted on 03/08/2012 11:17:02 PM PST by rolling_stone
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To: Zakeet

I think if I unload 30 rounds from my AK in a bear’s general direction that it will go down.


10 posted on 03/08/2012 11:18:02 PM PST by LukeL (Barack Obama: Jimmy Carter 2 Electric Boogaloo)
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To: Zakeet
That guy is definitely a candidate for the Darwin Award, looking at his photo with those polar bears.

They'll be calling him the late Professor Tom Smith pretty soon.

11 posted on 03/08/2012 11:18:50 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: mkmensinger

The story is that you use pepper spray on black bears, and bells on brown bears. Want to tell the difference between black bear poop and brown bear poop? Black bear poopy is peppery and brown bear poop will have bells in it.


12 posted on 03/08/2012 11:20:02 PM PST by LukeL (Barack Obama: Jimmy Carter 2 Electric Boogaloo)
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To: Zakeet

They’re probably assuming most bears wear bulletproof vests.


13 posted on 03/08/2012 11:21:36 PM PST by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: Zakeet

Another attack on the right to bear arms?


14 posted on 03/08/2012 11:23:03 PM PST by Raycpa
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To: Zakeet

(Even if you do kill the bear, that’s still a problem, given declining populations and the the loss of what a bear can contribute both economically and ecologically.)

So the professor thinks that you getting killed by the bear is better than you killing the bear, because of “what a bear can contribute both economically and ecologically”. Call me crazy, but I think a human being is more precious than a bear, except maybe for the professor! I would gladly trade his worthless hide for a bear any day.


15 posted on 03/08/2012 11:23:15 PM PST by winner3000 (ss)
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To: Zakeet; kanawa

Well, if you’re Kanawa, a six-inch hunting knife (and a good dog), go a long way.

:-)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1670661/posts


16 posted on 03/08/2012 11:24:13 PM PST by Altariel ("Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!")
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To: greyfoxx39; colorcountry; Colofornian; Elsie; Godzilla; MHGinTN; narses; reaganaut; SENTINEL; ...

BYU excellence in academic research ping.


17 posted on 03/08/2012 11:24:28 PM PST by Zakeet (Obozo is to competent as an Etch-A-Sketch is to art)
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To: Zakeet

If correct, Tom Smith’s theory should have predictive value: if he’s a true scientist I suggest he put it to the test against a suitable number of bears in the wild (N>7 at least for statistical significance), and publish the results.


18 posted on 03/08/2012 11:24:44 PM PST by dagogo redux (A whiff of primitive spirits in the air, harbingers of an impending descent into the feral.)
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To: Zakeet

What is with the picture on the left, did that guy kill the polar bear cubs as well?


19 posted on 03/08/2012 11:30:57 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Burke)
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To: All

Disregard, I checked out the article, they were knocked out with spray.


20 posted on 03/08/2012 11:33:11 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Burke)
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To: Zakeet

My grandmother once attacked a bear with a jar of mayonnaise. Then I think my grandfather shot it.


21 posted on 03/08/2012 11:35:46 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: chris37

I got a .500 smith and wesson magnum that would drop any animal on earth. I guarantee it’s more effective than a can of bear spray. I plan on hunting bears with it in fact.


22 posted on 03/08/2012 11:52:26 PM PST by RC one (the majority of republicans agree, anyone but Romney.)
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To: winner3000

You’re right about the bear being more precious than the professor, however I would like to add that I think bears, yes all types, are more precious than Obama, his wife, Joe Biden, Sandra Fluke, Bill Maher, Barney Frank, Mitt Romney, Anthony Wiener, Louis C.K., Cass Sunstein, Kathleen Sebelius, Janet Lesbitano, Ruth Ginsburg...heck I could go on FOREVER!

Gimmie bears!


23 posted on 03/08/2012 11:53:32 PM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: Zakeet
"Even if you do kill the bear, that's still a problem, given declining populations and the the loss of what a bear can contribute both economically and ecologically.

"It's a conservation issue in that we'll see needless bear mortalities," Smith said."

Hey Smith, you nimrod......can't have it both ways with your cutesy little "research". Either you can off a bear with a gun or you can't. Which is it, sparky?

24 posted on 03/08/2012 11:55:42 PM PST by RightOnline (I am Andrew Breitbart!)
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To: Zakeet
"There is nothing in this study to contradict common sense," he said.

Liberals always are well aware of the essence of whatever perversity they are pushing. They are taught by Leftists to go right to it, and declare it's opposite, in order to create extreme cognitive dissonance in their targets (and force the self-rape of themselves to deny the shame that would otherwise make them unable to push the perversity for their Leftist masters).

So, Perversity: "Study shows that drinking water won't quench your thirst."

Cognitive dissonance: "There is nothing in this study to contradict common sense" - or - "the only people who disagree are known racists" - or - "disbelief in this common sense conclusion reveals hatred for women."

See, it's like building blocks. Learn to parse their mind f***ing, and you can simply and easily deconstruct what it took them years of secret society handshakes to learn.

25 posted on 03/08/2012 11:58:35 PM PST by Talisker (He who commands, must obey.)
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To: Zakeet

When in bear country, I suggest both guns and bear spray.

Spray first, then shoot.

Unless you think you can accurately hit a fast charging bear with a large enough caliber to put her down, you are better off with the spray. It gives the bear pause, which gives you time to safely shoot it.


26 posted on 03/09/2012 12:17:56 AM PST by Retired Greyhound (.)
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To: Zakeet
Even if you do kill the bear, that's still a problem, given declining populations and the the loss of what a bear can contribute both economically and ecologically.

"It's a conservation issue in that we'll see needless bear mortalities," Smith said.

I thought he was leading to the premise that the most important survival tool is what's between your ears. Which I could have agreed with. Then I got to those lines and saw this was an entirely agenda-driven politically correct load of enviro-wacko spotted owl feces.

A gun may not be the most effective way to deal with bears in most situations. But you'll darned sure wish you had one, and a big one, if Plan A fails. As for Mr. Touchy Feely here he's full of some kind of scatology, ursine or bovine. If the bear kills you because you didn't have the heart to kill it it's dead anyway. It's government policy to hunt down and kill any bear that kills a man.

27 posted on 03/09/2012 12:19:36 AM PST by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Zakeet
I thought the only thing you need in bear country is a companion that you can outrun.
28 posted on 03/09/2012 12:29:50 AM PST by fso301
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To: fso301
If you ever find yourself having to hike with someone faster than you are
put some bacon in their pack when they're not looking.
29 posted on 03/09/2012 12:33:10 AM PST by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Zakeet; All
About the photo; did he kill the mother and the cubs?
30 posted on 03/09/2012 12:36:42 AM PST by patriot08 (TEXAS GAL- born and bred and proud of it!)
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To: TigersEye
If you ever find yourself having to hike with someone faster than you are put some bacon in their pack when they're not looking.

LOL! That will also work.

31 posted on 03/09/2012 12:40:23 AM PST by fso301
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To: LukeL

“The story is that you use pepper spray on black bears, and bells on brown bears. Want to tell the difference between black bear poop and brown bear poop? Black bear poopy is peppery and brown bear poop will have bells in it.”

LOL! Funniest post I’ve seen in a while!


32 posted on 03/09/2012 12:43:00 AM PST by tanuki (Left-wing Revolution: show biz for boring people.)
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To: fso301

Bacon! It’s almost as indispensable as duct tape. ;^)


33 posted on 03/09/2012 12:46:20 AM PST by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Zakeet
This is why there should not be a 200.00 fee to own a machine gun...that is if you can find one that's acceptable :-/

Even an old Thompson with a drum magazine would waste a few bears. Sears Roebuck used to sell them.


34 posted on 03/09/2012 12:56:13 AM PST by Bobalu (It is not obama we are fighting, it is the media.)
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To: Zakeet

35 posted on 03/09/2012 12:57:47 AM PST by Bobalu (It is not obama we are fighting, it is the media.)
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To: Zakeet
the loss of what a bear can contribute both economically and ecologically.

Someone needs to explain that one to me. Just what does a bear contribute economically, unless it's his pelt and meat? The entertainment value of watching him devour guys like the author? And what a bear contributes ecologically would be his scat and rotting carcass when he dies. Not to denigrate that, but 2-3 cows would be pretty much equivalent.

36 posted on 03/09/2012 1:29:30 AM PST by Doug Loss
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To: patriot08

Tom S. Smith, associate professor in the plant and wildlife sciences department at BYU, holds up a temporarily knocked-out family of polar bears.

For what ever purpose, unmentioned, does a “scientist” run around knocking out polar bears. It would appear to be relavent. Another item they did mention caught my attention.

“What they found was that there was no statistical difference in terms of injury or death between those who used their gun (229) and those who didn’t (40)”.

Was anyone injured or killed? Of the 269 was common sense an issue? Of the 40, how many were carrying a gun? How many incidents were surprise encounters? How many were in the wild vs home invasion? How many of the 269 were long time Alaska residents. etc. This guy has a history of feel good and polar bear populations are decreasing articles. The population decrease alone is bogus whether Alaska or Canada.

If you have lived in Alaska for any length of time, you learn it can be dangerous to be outside in the wild with anything less than a 44 mag. Back when I lived there in the 70’s IIRC there was no bear spray and S&W 44 mags were over 600 dollars back then. So then common sense came into play. I didn’t have a 44 so I didn’t go where brown bears were. Did run into a black bear once. A chance encounter, he or she was rooting for food or whatever, and I had sufficient time to reverse course and leave the bear to its business. I was carrying a 357 mag which was one third the price of a 44.


37 posted on 03/09/2012 1:30:09 AM PST by wita
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To: Bobalu

This is why there should not be a 200.00 fee to own a machine gun...

You and I both know, there should be no restrictions on the ownership of any machine gun.

The passage of the 1987 gun laws put the citizens of the United States at a disadvantage vis a vis government at city state and federal levels as Govt’s purchasing power was unlimited whereas the individual citizen became eligible for practically nothing in comparison, especially when one considers what that did to the price of the now much limited supply. Yes once again government has chosen winners and losers. Citizens and manufacturers, you lose.


38 posted on 03/09/2012 1:41:00 AM PST by wita
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To: fortheDeclaration
Re: Knocked out with spray

I hope so!

Saw a program years back where researchers tried to raise an orphan polar bear cub in their back yard.

When it got to that size it turned surly and violent.

They filmed it taking three or four swipes at the male researcher’s face.

Its right-left paw speed and power - even at that age - were awesome and completely shocking.

39 posted on 03/09/2012 1:52:21 AM PST by zeestephen
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To: rolling_stone

When I was in the Navy there was an old chief who went grizzly hunting every year, and the only weapon he took with him was a huge honking pistol. No idea what it was, .44 magnum or something similar.

Every year, he got his bear. Had the pics and the trophies to prove it, too. Why a pistol? Well, I guess it was more fun if the bear had a sporting chance.

Someone asked him how long he would keep it up. He said “Until a bear gets me.” That was about 30 years ago. I sometimes wonder if he’s still out there.


40 posted on 03/09/2012 2:00:07 AM PST by Ronin (Sarah.... We really need you now!)
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To: LukeL

Pepper spray on bears is more of what I’d think of as a recipe for dinner, not survival.


41 posted on 03/09/2012 2:04:52 AM PST by rawcatslyentist (Mohammedan law every woman must belong to a man will delay the end of slavery until Islam has ceased)
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To: winner3000
“what a bear can contribute both economically and ecologically”

Bears do business, and pay taxes too!

Well they do their business anyway!

42 posted on 03/09/2012 2:10:13 AM PST by rawcatslyentist (Mohammedan law every woman must belong to a man will delay the end of slavery until Islam has ceased)
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To: wita

thanks for the reply. Interesting


43 posted on 03/09/2012 2:26:38 AM PST by patriot08 (TEXAS GAL- born and bred and proud of it!)
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To: Zakeet

What’s the minimum needed to kill a bear and not just piss it off?


44 posted on 03/09/2012 2:27:16 AM PST by DrGunsforHands
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To: Altariel; kanawa

I was just going to say “Sometimes a knife and a dog work pretty well”.


45 posted on 03/09/2012 2:55:37 AM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: zeestephen

Yes, they are indeed powerful creatures!


46 posted on 03/09/2012 2:56:05 AM PST by fortheDeclaration (All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Burke)
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To: Zakeet

At first blush, it sounds like this researcher knew what his result was before he started his research.

As a practical matter, killing a bear with a gun before he can kill you is a very tricky proposition. A head shot will just piss him off.

In any case, this is not the “bear” mentioned in the Second Amendment.


47 posted on 03/09/2012 2:58:50 AM PST by Haiku Guy ("The problem with Internet Quotes is that you never know if they are real" -- Abraham Lincoln)
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To: Haiku Guy
Having killed several bears and seen more then that killed I assure you a properly placed head shot kills bears quickly.

There is no problem even driving a 357 mag and above bullet through a bears skull. I have done it several times.

This guy is a pro bear anti who is more concerned about the bears then people.

48 posted on 03/09/2012 3:36:33 AM PST by riverrunner
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To: Zakeet

If guns aren’t effective against bears why do people in Alaska and in the Arctic carry them?

Declining polar bear numbers? Why has the number been going up since 1950 from 5,000 to 25,000? Could you show me the decline?


49 posted on 03/09/2012 3:40:57 AM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Zakeet
A new study suggests that one of the most commonly suggested deterrents against bears in the wild — guns — actually won't protect people any better than not using a gun.

I think this guy disagrees:


50 posted on 03/09/2012 3:43:57 AM PST by Jed Eckert
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