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BYU study: Guns don't give people advantage during a bear encounter
Deseret News ^ | March 8, 2012

Posted on 03/08/2012 10:58:38 PM PST by Zakeet

Conventional wisdom isn't always based on common sense, and sometimes isn't even based on real data, especially when it comes to animals of mythological proportions like bears.

BYU wildlife biologist Tom Smith wants to change that.

A new study suggests that one of the most commonly suggested deterrents against bears in the wild — guns — actually won't protect people any better than not using a gun.

"It really isn't about the kind of gun you carry,” he said. “It's about how you carry yourself. We need to respect an animal that could potentially take our lives."

[Snip]

This isn't the first time Smith has had a study showing that guns aren't as effective against bears as generally believed. In 2008, Smith released a study saying that bear spray is more effective than guns.

Part of the problem is that shooting accurately is very difficult in a terrifying situation like having a giant animal charging at you. Even if you do kill the bear, that's still a problem, given declining populations and the the loss of what a bear can contribute both economically and ecologically.

"It's a conservation issue in that we'll see needless bear mortalities," Smith said.

(Excerpt) Read more at deseretnews.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Outdoors
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; banglist; bear; guns; hunting
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To: RC one

I’ve never fired one of those, but I saw a YouTube video of an idiot almost getting a split forehead. Was he just being an idiot and limpwristing it?

I have pretty strong hands and wrists but wanted to know about the recoil...guess the only way is to rent one!


101 posted on 03/09/2012 10:30:23 AM PST by scott7278 ("...I have not changed Congress and how it operates the way I would have liked..." - BHO)
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To: Daffynition
Well, that looks a hellofalot better than the Bird Sheriff standing in mid air.
102 posted on 03/09/2012 10:33:26 AM PST by X-spurt (Its time for ON YOUR FEET or on your knees)
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To: Zakeet
Mog the caveman disagrees. He would like a gun.
103 posted on 03/09/2012 10:36:44 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to DC to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: X-spurt
Come here....so I can *SMACK* you! LOL :)

Nothing's *ever* wrong with my graphics....quitchercomplainin'!!! :D


104 posted on 03/09/2012 10:41:57 AM PST by Daffynition (On Andrew Breitbart: In his honor, I'll fight harder...He'll be back and he'll be millions.)
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To: Bobalu

Do you know where can I get a full size image of that page?


105 posted on 03/09/2012 10:44:55 AM PST by Little Ray (FOR the best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: RC one
I got a .500 smith and wesson magnum that would drop any animal on earth.
Actually a charging bull elephant would probably not be stopped. I doubt the muzzle velocity from that short barrel is enough to punch through that skull. Even 45-70 was not considered enough for those back in the safari days.
106 posted on 03/09/2012 10:51:54 AM PST by TalonDJ
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To: Little Ray

This page, near the bottom..right click..choose save as :-)
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1256428_There_is_only_one_gun__the_Colt_AR15A2.html


107 posted on 03/09/2012 10:54:36 AM PST by Bobalu (It is not obama we are fighting, it is the media.)
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To: Windflier

wonder how long the mama bear is going to nap beside him...its not sleeping because of bear spray...someone shot that sucker...


108 posted on 03/09/2012 11:08:29 AM PST by goat granny
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To: reaganaut

LOL why did your grandfather shoot a jar of mayonnaise?


109 posted on 03/09/2012 11:11:32 AM PST by goat granny
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To: piroque

you are bad.......but funny....:O)


110 posted on 03/09/2012 11:18:16 AM PST by goat granny
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To: Zakeet

I am much more concerned with bipeds than I ever will be with bears.


111 posted on 03/09/2012 11:26:26 AM PST by Red in Blue PA (Read SCOTUS Castle Rock vs Gonzales before dialing 911!)
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To: Elsie
Yep, that sweetheart is a real killer....I hope that's your face he's going for, cannot tell which part of your anatomy is in peril.. LOL thanks for the ping...
112 posted on 03/09/2012 11:26:26 AM PST by goat granny
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To: Daffynition; Elsie

I taught one of my goats to shake hands like you do a dog, but that woman is a genius...


113 posted on 03/09/2012 11:31:03 AM PST by goat granny
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To: chris37

Pit bulls don’t get over about 70 pounds.

However it is neat to call every scary dog a pit bull.

Your 100lb. german shepard might actually be a poodle.


114 posted on 03/09/2012 11:32:47 AM PST by Eaker (Remember, the enemy tends to wise up at the least convenient moments.)
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To: USAF80

Years back when I worked at an innercity hospital my husband bought me a small can of mace that went on your key chain....the directions were to periodically test it to make sure it was still working....I wish you would have told me about wind direction....I maced myself twice, damn wind blowing in the wrong direction...it smarts the eyes real good...back then you could carry real mace..


115 posted on 03/09/2012 11:35:30 AM PST by goat granny
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To: Elsie

Elsie, that sweet animal will not hurt you, see that idiot researcher was right....:O)


116 posted on 03/09/2012 11:37:06 AM PST by goat granny
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To: Eaker

There is a breeder of pits that has a web site (which I have long ago lost) and brags about his 130 to 150 pure bred pit bulls...with pictures. Been breeding large to large.


117 posted on 03/09/2012 11:51:26 AM PST by goat granny
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To: goat granny

Because it lost to the bear, silly! LOL.


118 posted on 03/09/2012 11:58:13 AM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: goat granny; Elsie; GladesGuru

Apparently, I mis-spoke in my last post. I do not recommend using illegal aliens as bear bait. This would be a clear-cut violation of Fish and Game Laws.


119 posted on 03/09/2012 12:11:18 PM PST by Kenny Bunk ((So, you're telling me Scalia, Alito, Thomas, and Roberts can't figure out this eligibility stuff?))
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To: Eaker

Go pound sand. How’s this, if I would have had my pistol on me, I woulda shot the thing dead hwere it stood.


120 posted on 03/09/2012 12:22:53 PM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: EdReform

It’s Frontiersman Bear Attack Deterrent.


121 posted on 03/09/2012 12:24:49 PM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: Eaker

Furthermore, where precisely did I call “every scary dog a pit bull”.

I called the dog that menaced me a pit bull, which it was.

Are you illiterate or something, or do you just read what you want to read?


122 posted on 03/09/2012 12:26:35 PM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: Zakeet

Although the perfesser might be a bear-worshipping idjit, he still has a good point: having your wits about you is the key factor in not having inappropriate carnivorous connection with bears.

I’ve encountered dozens of black bears over the years and only really sweated it once.

The only two people I know personally who survived bear attacks(one black, one grizzly), were saved by their loyal labradors diverting the bear enough to allow escape with only bites and scratches.

In conclusion, take a dog. ;^)


123 posted on 03/09/2012 12:56:32 PM PST by headsonpikes (Mass murder and cannibalism are the twin sacraments of socialism - "Who-whom?"-Lenin)
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To: chris37

Regardless of what anyone posts it wasn’t a pit bull if it dwarfed your 100lb dog. It might have been a rott or a Shetland pony but it wasn’t a pit.

Pits are the most misidentified breed in the world and both my pit and I are tired of it.


124 posted on 03/09/2012 1:03:59 PM PST by Eaker (Remember, the enemy tends to wise up at the least convenient moments.)
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To: goat granny
wonder how long the mama bear is going to nap beside him...its not sleeping because of bear spray...someone shot that sucker...

I'll bet you're right. What mama bear would lie docile like that, while some human is touching her cubs?

125 posted on 03/09/2012 1:45:11 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Tennessee Nana

or a Jupiter stone...

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/community/skyblog/observingblog/Jupiter-Meets-Venus-141665443.html


126 posted on 03/09/2012 2:16:44 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: goat granny
The potato chip and my fingers are bearly discernable.
127 posted on 03/09/2012 2:25:00 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: goat granny

TWICE?

I figgered you for a FAST learner!


128 posted on 03/09/2012 2:26:02 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: goat granny

LOL! That sounds like something I would do. :)


129 posted on 03/09/2012 2:27:31 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: goat granny

http://www.bossykennels.com/


130 posted on 03/09/2012 2:32:05 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: headsonpikes

Uh...

...how’d the dogs fare?


131 posted on 03/09/2012 2:33:25 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Eaker
Pits are the most misidentified breed in the world and both my pit and I are tired of it.

Try bein' a guy with a screen name of ELSIE!

132 posted on 03/09/2012 2:34:08 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie
***I figgered you for a FAST learner!****

I use to think so also....LOL

133 posted on 03/09/2012 2:52:29 PM PST by goat granny
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To: Elsie

Yes, thats the one...those that say no pit weights 100 pounds are not really up on information on pits...


134 posted on 03/09/2012 2:58:47 PM PST by goat granny
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To: OldPossum
Gee, never thought of reading the article, thats what freepers are for, to tell me what it says....LOL

But we only have the writters word for them being temp. disabled.

135 posted on 03/09/2012 3:08:48 PM PST by goat granny
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To: Eaker

link to 150 pound pits at #130


136 posted on 03/09/2012 3:12:20 PM PST by goat granny
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To: Eaker

“Got menaced up close and personal bout 3 months back down a lonely road by a massive pitbull that made my 100lb. german shepard look small.”

Never said it dwarfed my dog, never said it weighed 100 lbs. I said my dog weighed 100 lbs.

It could have weighed less than 100 lbs and made my dog look small based upon muscle mass.

As I suggested before you should read what is acutally there, not what you think is there.

It was a pit, I could tell by its markings, its wide jaw, the muscles around its jaw, and its other dense muscles, sorry.

Perhaps the reason these dogs enjoy a bad rep is because their owners let them run free terrorizing people with dogs on leashes like me.

Dunno what else to tell you, it is what it is.


137 posted on 03/09/2012 3:17:28 PM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: goat granny
Got that one off another site ,we were discussing what pistol we should pack as a back-up while hunting or fishing in bear country

Had a good laugh myself

138 posted on 03/09/2012 3:17:51 PM PST by piroque ("In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act")
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To: mkmensinger
As I recall, you should wear bells to scare the bear off. /s

In my case a model 94 Winchester 30/30 solved my problem nicely.

139 posted on 03/09/2012 3:21:09 PM PST by dearolddad
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To: goat granny

I see that you took my overly-critical post (I’ve got to get over that tendency) in good humor. I am sorry, though, really, since I had “misremembered” what I had seen, i.e., the photo with the caption under it stating that the animals had been temporarily disabled. I thought it was in the original post and it tweren’t.

As for them being “temporarily disabled,” yep, we only had the writer’s word, and that might be wrong. Could be.


140 posted on 03/09/2012 3:29:06 PM PST by OldPossum (ou)
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To: Zakeet
"It's a conservation issue in that we'll see needless bear mortalities," Smith said.

"On one side, human safety is a huge issue. On the other, we're having bears blown away for no good reason," he said.

This moron clearly has an agenda, and his top priority obviously isn't protecting human life.

One of many possible explanations for his blatantly false conclusion aside from his bias is that he relied solely on reported attacks. Most people have enough common sense that they are unlikely to report a self-defense incident that ended up in a dead bear and no human injuries. There are simply too many eco-freak idiots in authority, like this "researcher", to put oneself in peril of legal persecution. A dead human-attacking bear means that the problem has been solved. Shoot, shovel (optional), and shut-up.

141 posted on 03/09/2012 3:34:31 PM PST by Ronaldus Magnus
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To: Kenny Bunk

Be on the look out for EPA as well. Seems such feeding may be considered “point source pollution”.

Got permit?


142 posted on 03/09/2012 3:49:15 PM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is necessary to examine principles."...the public interest)
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To: scott7278; TalonDJ

When I first got it, I bought two hundred 350 grain factory loads. After less than half those rounds one afternoon, I literally thought I had broken bones in my wrist. It took over a month before I no longer felt pain in my hand. I subsequently invested in a pair of jack hammer gloves which make it tolerable. I put a scope on it and those same rounds broke the reticle loose inside the tube so with every round, you could see the cross hairs rotate a little more. I have since loaded up some less brutal ammo that doesn’t break wrist bones or scope reticles. I’m looking at getting some 440 grain projectiles next though. That’s equal to a 1 ounce shotgun slug flying out the end of the barrel. Eventually, I want to do some penetration tests with some max loads and see if this thing will shoot through IIIA body armor the way I think it will. BTW DJ, the .500 develops significantly more muzzle energy than a 45/70. I think it would easily crack an elephant’s skull and shred its brain but you would have to be one ballsy SOB to go on that hunt. I think it would be particularly effective out of a rifle barrel however. you would be looking at energy levels in the 4000-5000 ft/lbs level with a rifle length barrel. I have been keeping my eyes open for a lever gun chambered in .500 SW mag.


143 posted on 03/09/2012 4:52:20 PM PST by RC one (the majority of republicans agree, anyone but Romney.)
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To: RC one

http://bighornarmory.com/products/carbine.php


144 posted on 03/09/2012 5:42:39 PM PST by scott7278 ("...I have not changed Congress and how it operates the way I would have liked..." - BHO)
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To: OldPossum

no problem, don’t be so hard on yourself..Lots of times I don’t read article unless freeper replies make it sound interesting....(I am a lazy freeper) “O)


145 posted on 03/09/2012 5:54:54 PM PST by goat granny
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To: Elsie

The dogs were fine...and well-loved by their masters!


146 posted on 03/09/2012 6:36:36 PM PST by headsonpikes (Mass murder and cannibalism are the twin sacraments of socialism - "Who-whom?"-Lenin)
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To: Zakeet

“Even if you do kill the bear, that’s still a problem, given declining populations and the the loss of what a bear can contribute both economically and ecologically.”

Die you flukers..bears are important not humans.


147 posted on 03/09/2012 6:46:11 PM PST by TASMANIANRED (We kneel to no prince but the Prince of Peace)
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To: fortheDeclaration
Disregard, I checked out the article, they were knocked out with spray.

The caption says that they were "knocked out"; it doesn't say they were knocked out with the spray. I'd suspect that they were shot with tranquilizer darts.

148 posted on 03/09/2012 6:55:50 PM PST by Bob
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To: Zakeet

149 posted on 03/09/2012 6:58:58 PM PST by Overtaxed
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To: Bob

I thought it was a spray, and that was the point that he was making that one need not have a gun to stop a bear.


150 posted on 03/09/2012 7:36:46 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Burke)
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