Skip to comments.New book claims Fidel Castro knew about Kennedy assassination plot beforehand
Posted on 03/18/2012 11:59:30 AM PDT by Free ThinkerNY
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INCONCEIVABLE! But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you: are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me....
Oh Mr. K as a physicist you are saying you are smarter about balistic physics than that genius of the one-bullet mind and physics bending theory, Senator Spector?
I remember as a young man listening to a friend of my cousin who worked for the State Department in Saigon. This friend who was only introduced by his first name spent an hour or so one Sunday afternoon during siesta time unsealing the size and inferred influence and wealth of the Ngo’s and a couple of other Viet families, the Tho’s I think was another such. Members of the Ngo family were spread around the world, in Hong Kong, Taiwan, France, the USA, and Great Britain. While not nearly as large or wealthy as the Soong clan from China they had global reach of a quite but very persuasive sort and probably, this man observed, had the resources and the capacity to orchestrate something like the JFK murder within a few weeks.
On other thing, Ido know that it was generally believed ‘Big Minh’ gave the direction before the coup to kill off the Ngo leadership. While he remained in SVN he appeared very take in public and lived in a heavily guarded villa. After 1975 he fled to the US and lived in Honolulu until his death. Again, he was a virtual, wees,thy recluse living in a pretty big house that was guarded as tightly as the Kremlin by male members of his family. Minh apparently did not leave his house fir months or eventually years. He was clearly apprehensive of someone.
That’s very interesting about the Vietnamese family structure. Would Ngo Dinh Diem have been the Tuc for his family?
Big Minh wound up being President right at the very end of South Vietnam’s existence. When Saigon fell he advocated surrender rather than fighting to the bitter end and that surely made him a collaborator to some people. He probably feared that they would come looking for him.
So Jim Garrison said, and some people believe him.
BUT: after the Italian Army as a whole reequipped with the .30 M1 in 1952, the Italian Army Marksmanship Team continued to use the Mannlicher-Carcano for more than a decade.
I’ve seen that interview. It’s very good.
Here is a radio interview with Mark Lane who has written books about the assassination.
You are right of course that Big Minh, who probably had at least part of one foot in the VC camp had a lot of Viets right in Honolulu who considered him an arch traitor both for 1Nov63 and then the events of 1975.
I don’t believe the conspiracy theories beyond, maybe Oswald wasn’t the shooter in the window. But, no doubt that the window in the Depository was the spot. After that, it’s just too easy for a reasonably competent shooter to kill him from that window. The head shot was to a certain degree the shooter getting one last round off before the limo got too far out of range, and a certain degree of “chance” that he happened to blow Kennedy’s head off.
Just because someone says they were the best doesn't mean it's true.
Using a scoped, bolt action rifle, I once shot 3 times at a deer that was running away from me through a timber cut field. One hit by itself was fatal requiring no tracking, one hit by itself would have meant tracking it for some distance but would eventually have been fatal. One hit by itself was a minor flesh wound he would have quickly recovered from.
Unlike that buck bouncing through brush, the target profile presented by JFK was essentially stationary.
I did it in possibly less than half that time on a deer running away from me across a rough timber cut field using a cheap scoped bolt action. My shots were much more difficult than those Oswald had to make.
I’ve heard the same story about the M-C...slug the bore to get the true diameter, and “tune” your ammo to suit it (even if it just means sorting and checking diameters of bullets on issue ammo with a mike) and the Mannlicher-Carcano can do very well.
Am I saying that that’s what Oswald did? No...only that even a “POS” rifle can be a tack driver if the stars all align right. And Oswald wasn’t using wartime Italian ammunition...he was using American commercial ammo.
Regarding the backspray of blood when Kennedy was shot...hasn’t it been reported that he was wearing a backbrace that day, which limited his movement?
Biggest issue I have with the idea of Kennedy’s assassination being some sort of “conspiracy”...if this was organized by a group with any sense of planning, why would Oswald have been “allowed” or “enabled” to be captured? Why not have the assassin disappear, leaving no evidence behind...or if a name and face were to be supplied, why not have the “assassin” conveniently killed before capture? For that matter, if it was the work of a conspiracy, why have either the President or assassin taken out in public view?
To leave a triggerman behind, alive and spewing inconvenient claims, reeks of either incredibly bad planning or “failure to think things through”. And that latter element—the lack of planning beyond the “I’M GONNA BE SOMEBODY!” moment—makes me think the events in Dealey Plaza were the work of one loser, a self-declared Marxist True Believer, who had attached himself to the Cuban cause after being disillusioned by the Soviet Union, and sought to make a name for himself by lashing out on its behalf.
From the book depository Kennedy was a moving target. They actually had marksmen try and hit a Kennedy dummy in the 8.4 seconds that it took to get three shots off from that angle. Can’t be done.
You might be the best marksman in the world if you think you can pull it off.
They weren't very good marksmen if they couldn't do it.
You might be the best marksman in the world if you think you can pull it off.
I could have pulled it off no problem. Thanks for the compliment but you are greatly overestimating the skill required.
I suggest you read about the "mad minute"; 15 hits from a bolt action onto a 12" round target at 300 yds within one minute. The "mad minute" was done using open sights on a rifle that weighed well over a pound more than the 6.5mm Carcano M91/38 used by Oswald. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_minute.
And remember, the distance from the window of the book depository to JFK's moving vehicle ranged from ~50 yds for the first shot to ~85yds on the final shot.
While hitting a moving target?
The target, JFK in this case was slowly moving away from the shooters position. Based on my understanding of the events, JFK would have presented Oswald with a target that was slowly shrinking while moving slightly upward and to the right in a straight, predictable line.
Oswald had all the time to make the first shot, remember, the clock starts with his first shot. Oswald fires the first shot, reloads and aims just ahead of where he predicts the target will be and fires when the target moves into his sight picture. He repeats the process for the third shot.
You’d think this was a liberal website with the STUNNING lack of gun knowledge displayed. Notice the last response to your post. “While hitting a moving target?” Amazing. At 85 yards with a rested rifle and a seated shooter and a scope????? What kind of GD fool thinks this is an “impossible” shot. Not only is it not impossible, it’s easier than falling out of bed. Again, is this FR, where people are supposed to know a thing or two about guns? Also, as I pointed out earlier, when a target is moving toward your or away from you, as opposed to left and right, it’s not even considered to be moving.
Here’s another thing — the clock starts a millisecond AFTER the first bullet is fired. AFTER. That means Lee had 6.7 seconds to get off TWO shots, not three.
I’ve been at the scene of the crime. Oswald was practically on top off Kennedy when he made his shots. The best marksmen in the world could easily do it with iron sights. Oswald used a scope.
Mannlicher-Carcano not being accurate shows a lack of knowledge about firearms. Shooters are still using this rifle on ranges all around the country and getting solid hits. This is with rifles that are a least 50 years older than the one Oswald used. I use a 1917 SMLE, 95 years old, and it still hits the black at 100 yards no problem. Oswald was shooting half the distance.
Well, not everyone can be knowledgeable on all topics.
At 85 yards with a rested rifle and a seated shooter and a scope????? What kind of GD fool thinks this is an impossible shot.
Cut the guy some slack. I appreciate the many times Freepers have lent their knowledge to patiently educate me on various topics over the years for which I either had no prior knowledge or flawed knowledge.
Not only is it not impossible, its easier than falling out of bed.
Again, is this FR, where people are supposed to know a thing or two about guns?
Evidently, it's a larger tent than we assumed.
Also, as I pointed out earlier, when a target is moving toward your or away from you, as opposed to left and right, its not even considered to be moving.
True but a minor technicality is that if shooting down at a target that is moving away from you on a flat surface, the target will appear to be slowly shrinking AND moving upward. You obviously know that but I point it out for the benefit of others who may be following this thread.
Since the road had a slight bend in it and also had a slight hill, depending on where JFK was between two points in time, he may have as you said presented a stationary AND slowly shrinking target, or one that was slowly shrinking AND moving slightly on a very predictable path. I used worst case of a target slowly shrinking and moving slightly on a very predictable path... an easy shot.
Heres another thing the clock starts a millisecond AFTER the first bullet is fired. AFTER. That means Lee had 6.7 seconds to get off TWO shots, not three.
Yes, I understand that. I previously pointed it out as well but it bears worth repeating.
You are patient... and correct.
Nope. Just another in a list of crackpots.
Was this the plan, where you had the three shooters and set up Oswald as the patsy? The shooters + spotters were taken away down to Mexico and then killed on the theory that dead men tell no tales.
"Forward and to the right! Forward and to the right!"
OK seriously, that's where the "inaccurate sights" were throwing the bullets. If LHO knew where the sights were puttimg the bullets, he has a gift - NO CORRECTIONS: Aim where you want the bullets to go, and the motion of JFK's car will take him into them. (the offset was only a couple of inches anyway)
Have YOU seen/heard the whole interview???
Anyone can give an interview. The fact is there have been a whole lot of people that have given entirely made up stories about the JFK assassination. You can’t take anything seriously unless there’s hard evidence. Interviews with someone claiming involvement or knowledge, without evidence to back them up, are worthless.
Madeleine Brown is no different. See: http://dperry1943.com/browns.html
Finally, I found the other person in the US that believes that.
Some people saw smoke from the area, etc. that was never truly investivated.
OK, let's not open that again.
The first paragraph in “your” article and especially the first line says it all. If Madeleine’s story is hoax,then David’s story matches her’s!!!
yes, I am familiar with that, and I discount it as a stupid theory that sounds plausible enough to convince the gullible
Jackie Kennedy crawled onto the trunk to retrieve his brains and carried them into the hospital
It WAS like shooting fish in a barrel to the 2 or 3 shooters in the area, including the one who missed and hit the pavement and curb, and the one who missed and hit the man standing under the overpass, but not to Oswald, who didn't fire a shot.
I've seen the recreations on TV- they are what we physicists technically call “bull$hit”
yeah..."modified skull"..."near re-creation" - I can set up an experiment to give you the results I wan too...
But looked at in the Zapruder film, the brains DO NOT "jet out the front" , The governor was not covered in them, and Jackie gets onto the trunk to retrieve his brains FROM THE BACK OF THE VEHICLE
And.. (i dont think anyone pointed this out before) one fram before the head shot becomes obvious I *THINK* I see a crater imprint on his forehead (entry) with a circular pattern forming from the shock wave through his skin
There are also shots that missed and hit the pavement and hit a man standing by the overpass - explain how Oswald did those too?
Where else but Texas could someone kill a U.S. President, then the assassin is assassinated while in police custody.
This is the definition of, "Keystone cops".
Keystone Cops in the know of the open secret!
No it's not an "Easy" shot, even with a scope, due to the fact the target was moving.
Even for experts, moving targets are always difficult when attempting to place near perfect shots. Throw in the stress of attempting to shoot a US president, actually ID'ing the target in a short time window, with the big thing on your mind being, "Escape" etc.
To be honest with you, I believe very little of the governments version of this event. ,
In fact, years later, I found I don't believe *anything* the government claims.
“Best Evidence” by David S Lifton is a very compelling read.
Uh, yes it is an easy shot, going away from a person at a slow and almost steady speed (see the film of the car coming around the corner). Also, Oswald was a steely character and didn’t give a fig that it was the President—have you seen him questioned by the press in the Dallas jail? Cold, very cold.
ID’ing the target was hard? Get serious — at that range it was so obvious an ID that your comment provokes laughter all around....
Oswald was a steely character and didnt give a fig that it was the President
I'm sure there was no stress while attempting to shoot a U.S. President, and no doubt, "escape" didn't even cross his mind in those few seconds...
I had no idea he was a trained killer and such a cool and steely sniper.
In fact, based on what you say, I'm totally surprise they weren't all head shots, as it was so damn easy. I'm mean, how was it possible even one round miss the head shot?
It's so easy, I'm shocked every single round wasn't a head shot. How is that possible?
“Thanks for the expert advise.”
It’s “advice”, Mr. Sarcastic. (no points).
You’re indicating with your own words my point. He was not a trained killer—but he hit the President with 2 shots, one in the lower neck region and one in the back of the skull! Get it? It was a fairly easy kill. He did get his marksmanship award in the Marines, this we know.
And he proved himself a cold, unfeeling person each time he was recorded.
But if it were so damn easy, why weren't all rounds fired head shots? I'm mean, how was it possible, being so easy, to miss two out of three head shots?
he hit the President with 2 shots, one in the lower neck region and one in the back of the skull! Get it?
Yes I do get it.
But were 3 shots not fired??
What happened to the easy shot? And a Marine marksmen?
According to you, and a couple of others here, it's was an "Easy" target. One said it was easier than, "Falling out of bed"....lol
It was a fairly easy kill.
Oh I see, it was an easy shot, and now it's a, "fairly easy kill", yet two of the three rounds fired were not head shots.
Easy shot, I mean, "fairly easy kill"...Got it!
You’ve already answered your own question. Now it’s time for you to listen to yourself.
Let’s review: Easy shot. Not a trained sniper. Still gets 2 out of 3 shots into the head. Still think it was hard?
The missed shot could have been anything, such as the body lurching at near the same time as the trigger was pulled. And, probably, the best explanation...