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‘Your God’s wrong’: Judge erupts in angry tirade, sends pro-life activist back to jail
Life Site News ^ | 3/22/2012 | Tony Gosgnach

Posted on 03/22/2012 12:56:37 PM PDT by Morgana

TORONTO, Ontario, March 22, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) – An Ontario Court of Justice judge erupted in a lengthy, angry tirade against pro-life activist Mary Wagner – and ejected a spectator from the public gallery – in a downtown Toronto courtroom Wednesday. The judge then sent Wagner to jail for an additional 92 days, added to 88 days already served prior to trial, after finding her guilty of mischief and two counts of failing to comply with probation orders.

The charges related to Wagner’s November 8 arrest at the site of the Bloor West Village “Women’s Clinic.” Wagner has been arrested on several occasions for peacefully entering abortion facilities in Toronto, where she presents women in the waiting room with a rose and offers them pro-life counseling.

The remarkable scene played itself out after Crown attorney Derek Ishak and defense counsel Russell Browne made a joint submission to Mr. Justice S. Ford Clements for time served plus a three-year probationary term. But Clements emphatically rejected the submission.

“She can sit in jail, if that’s the only way to protect people,” he fulminated, calling Wagner “cowardly” for “abusing other human beings” and not having the courage to make her views known through other channels. “This is an extraordinary waste of resources. Get a grip!”

“You don’t get it, do you? What’s the rule of law? You’re required to abide by it … You’ve lost the right as a citizen to be anywhere near an abortion clinic or to speak to an employee,” he said.

“You’re wrong and your God’s wrong,” he continued. “You have complete contempt … There is a right to (abortion) in this country … You don’t have a right to cause (abortion-seeking women) extra pain and grief the way you do.”

“[Abortion] is legal,” he continued, “that’s all you have to understand … You start causing people emotional pain and harm, you think that’s okay?”

He then asked Wagner whether she would stay away from abortion sites for three years as required by the proposed terms of probation.

“I will not,” Wagner replied firmly.

“Then you’re going to jail,” said Clements.

Earlier, one of Wagner’s supporters in the public gallery spoke up and was addressed by Clements. “These (life issues) are deeply held beliefs. We respect the rule of law. There are ways to change the law. The rule of law is absolutely fundamental. We see what happens in the streets when the rule of law is ignored,” he said. “You wouldn’t like someone in your vestibule every night. People who can’t deal with that, we lock them up.”

When the man attempted to reply, he was ejected from the courtroom by Clements.

After a noon recess, Clements observed that joint submissions by the Crown and defense were not binding on a judge. He said in his view, the submission as it was would be contrary to the public interest and would bring the administration of justice into disrepute.

Asked whether she had anything to say prior to sentencing, Wagner said she saw the rule of law as a guidepost, not an absolute. “The letter of the law does not always maintain justice … abortion is a short-term solution but causes long-term pain,” she said.

She added she never acts out of a lack of sensitivity, but rather attempts to love the women to whom she speaks. She also pointed to examples from history where people who were initially regarded as criminals were later found to be in the right.

Clements was unmoved. “You have, in some measure, displayed utter contempt for the courts and the rights of others,” he said. “You appear to be governed by a higher moral order than the laws of our country.”

“Your determination to break the law is a potential threat to the well-being of society and plants the seeds of lawlessness, perhaps even anarchy … You are unable to accord some civility and respect to others. Your view in law is wrong.”

In concluding, Clements accepted the testimony of abortion site co-owner Patricia Hasen, who filed a victim impact statement that claimed financial hardship caused by Wagner’s actions, including the necessity to hire a “counselor” from another abortion site. Hasen also said she was “scared a bit” when Wagner allegedly held a door open, adding she “doesn’t trust this woman’s peaceful demeanour” and worries about potential aggression. “These people do not work alone.”

Crown attorney Ishak, in his submissions, charged that pro-life activists “prey upon the emotional vulnerability” of abortion patients as “they evidently pursue martyrdom.” The “flouting” of laws, he charged, harken back to “the Dark Ages” and blurs the line between might and right. He suggested Wagner’s actions mark an increase in “the aggressive nature” of pro-life demonstrations, creating emotional distress.

There was no immediate word on whether Wagner planned to appeal either the verdicts or what amounted to a six-month jail sentence. There is also an option to file a complaint with the Ontario Judicial Council over Clements’s statements and conduct in the courtroom. According to the OJC website, “If you have a complaint of misconduct about a provincial judge or a justice of the peace, you must state your complaint in a signed letter. The letter of complaint should include the date, time and place of the court hearing and as much detail as possible about why you feel there was misconduct.”

To write to Wagner in prison:

Mary Wagner Vanier Centre for Women 655 Martin St., Box 1040 Milton, ON L9T 5E6


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: abortion; babykiller; bloodonhishands; bloodonhishead; godiswrong; judicialtyranny; meninblack; moralabsolutes; murderer; prolife
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Pardon me, Your Honor but don't tell that to Mary Wagner. Tell God he is wrong and see what he says.
1 posted on 03/22/2012 12:56:48 PM PDT by Morgana
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To: Morgana

Another case of the “law” being an a$$.


2 posted on 03/22/2012 12:59:14 PM PDT by knittnmom (Save the earth! It's the only planet with chocolate!)
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To: Morgana

Coming to an American courthouse near you.


3 posted on 03/22/2012 12:59:49 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Ich habe keinen Konig aber Gott)
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To: Morgana

“The law is an arse...” Dickens

“Here stand I. I can do no other.” Martin Luther (upon posting the 95 Thesis)


4 posted on 03/22/2012 1:01:10 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Can American judge mention God in a courtroom without forcing an automatic appeal?


5 posted on 03/22/2012 1:01:27 PM PDT by gundog (Help us, Nairobi-Wan Kenobi...you're our only hope.)
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To: Morgana

I guess, all I can say about this is how pleased God will be with his servant, Ms. Wagner. I suppose I could say more about the judge, but lost is lost.


6 posted on 03/22/2012 1:03:55 PM PDT by GreenAccord (Bacon Akbar)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

My thoughts exactly. Those of us who believe are going to be challenged like this woman very soon. Keep watch! Evil is all around.


7 posted on 03/22/2012 1:03:55 PM PDT by HOYA97 (twitter @hoya97)
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To: Morgana

I’m not an abortion supporter but I wonder how we’d react if an atheist came into a church and started passing out atheist literature. Would the church members not have the right to remove him from the property? Someone explain to me how this is any different.


8 posted on 03/22/2012 1:04:48 PM PDT by slumber1 (Don't taze me bro!)
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To: Morgana
“You appear to be governed by a higher moral order than the laws of our country.”

And the problem with this is.........what, exactly?

9 posted on 03/22/2012 1:05:43 PM PDT by Wizdum (My job is to get you to shoot soda out your nose)
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To: slumber1

There’s no difference. Both are trespassing and should be treated accordingly if the owners are so inclined.


10 posted on 03/22/2012 1:08:15 PM PDT by magritte (Gladys Knight: Mormon Siren?)
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To: Morgana

>> “...your God’s wrong,” he continued.

Oh, my.

He should consider changing his name to Rod.

Lighting Rod.

>> “You appear to be governed by a higher moral order than the laws of our country.”

He says that like it’s a BAD thing!


11 posted on 03/22/2012 1:11:57 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: slumber1
I’m not an abortion supporter but I wonder how we’d react if an atheist came into a church and started passing out atheist literature.

A church is a little different from a medical office lobby. If she had gone back and disrupted procedures, that would be a better analogy... but she did not. Just so, an atheist handing out literature during a church service is a provocation far beyond what this woman did. Besides, most church-goers are like this woman and would be open to sharing their faith with the atheist. This conversation isn't a two way street.

In NC, we can't even pray on the side of the street with the abortion clinic. I sincerely doubt this prohibition applies to an atheist who wanted to pass out anti-Christian literature in front of a church.

12 posted on 03/22/2012 1:13:22 PM PDT by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: slumber1; BlackElk
Someone explain to me how this is any different.

You are likely going to get responses from a number of people who will address natural law, necessity and the limits of the rights of private property. These arguments will likely be correct and cogent.

I am going to suggest that it is different because it is abortion. Canada's Roe v. Wade came much later than ours. A man named Morgantaler was operating an illegal abortion mill in Toronto in the 80s and 90s, and the police and courts came down on his side each and every time. On this issue, and those related to it, the rule of law has not been in operation for decades.
13 posted on 03/22/2012 1:13:46 PM PDT by Dr. Sivana (May Mitt Romney be the Paul Tsongas of 2012.)
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To: magritte
There’s no difference. Both are trespassing and should be treated accordingly if the owners are so inclined.

But there is a difference. At the abortion clinic two people enter and only one exits.

14 posted on 03/22/2012 1:14:36 PM PDT by DaveyB (Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. -John Adams)
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To: gundog

But Canadian courts are marching to the beat of SHARIA ... http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/08/sharia_law_in_canada_and_brita.html


15 posted on 03/22/2012 1:14:59 PM PDT by Neidermeyer
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To: Morgana

The first thing that came to mind was this:

If the woman had been a Muslim would he have treated her this way?


16 posted on 03/22/2012 1:15:02 PM PDT by The Working Man (No child left behind should be: No Child left a dime.)
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To: slumber1

>> Someone explain to me how this is any different.

I don’t know where *you* worship, but in *my* congregation they don’t sign in those in the lobby and then take them back behind the altar rail and kill their babies.

I’d respectfully submit *that* as a difference.


17 posted on 03/22/2012 1:15:02 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: slumber1

Well...let’s see...one involves murder and the other doesn’t. I hope that clarifies things a bit.


18 posted on 03/22/2012 1:15:24 PM PDT by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: slumber1
I’m not an abortion supporter but I wonder how we’d react if an atheist came into a church and started passing out atheist literature. Would the church members not have the right to remove him from the property? Someone explain to me how this is any different.

An interesting point and one worth considering. We naturally sympathize with this women because we agree with her views, but the law has to enforced neutrally. If it's illegal for someone to walk into her church and pass out pro abortion literature, then it's just as illegal for her to walk into an abortion clinic and solicit for pro-life counseling services.

I think where the Judge got it wrong was the tone. He should have calmly explained the arguments you and me just made. Then told her she must stay away from the Clinic. Then when she refused, he should have said that although he admired her convictions and regretted having to do it, he would have to send her to jail, just as he would do to someone doing the same thing in her church that refused to stay away.

19 posted on 03/22/2012 1:15:24 PM PDT by apillar
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To: Morgana
So let me see if I understand this “your God's wrong”, therefore this judicial hack must believe his god is right? His god being Canadian law I assume. So the way I understand it the God of hundreds of millions of Muslims, Christians and Jews doesn't know his a$$ from an axe handle because some piss ant Canadian judicial hack says so! Do we have jihads in Christianity, I mean is it too late to add jihad to the 10 Commandments. Just asking, not suggesting anything.
20 posted on 03/22/2012 1:15:44 PM PDT by OldGoatCPO
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To: GreenAccord
"Blessed shall you be when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake. Be glad in that day and rejoice; for behold, your reward is great in heaven." - Luke 6:22-23
21 posted on 03/22/2012 1:16:16 PM PDT by JustSayNoToNannies (A free society's default policy: it's none of government's business.)
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To: slumber1

“I’m not an abortion supporter but I wonder how we’d react if an atheist came into a church and started passing out atheist literature. Would the church members not have the right to remove him from the property? Someone explain to me how this is any different.”

Just the fact that they are murdering innocent babies is all.


22 posted on 03/22/2012 1:16:27 PM PDT by Dogbert41 ("...or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. " -Jesus)
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To: Morgana
Reminds me of some past "judges"...


23 posted on 03/22/2012 1:17:55 PM PDT by montag813
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To: Morgana

Wait a second....if you say that about Allah in Canada, you go to jail, or at least get heavily investigated by their Committee for Prevention of Free Speech (or whatever they call it).

Why isn’t the judge in jail with Mary Wagner?


24 posted on 03/22/2012 1:19:57 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (The solution to fix Congress: Nuke em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure!)
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To: DaveyB

Agreed on that, but both are basically in a place that the owners do not want them in. She can give her message on the public thoroughfares.

I wouldn’t want her or an atheist in my house if I didn’t invite them. Would you?


25 posted on 03/22/2012 1:23:28 PM PDT by magritte (Gladys Knight: Mormon Siren?)
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To: apillar
“but the law has to enforced neutrally”, I would agree, normally, had the cretin not said “Your God's wrong.” that is not a neutral statement, therefore this judge deserves all the criticism he gets. He should have known better and demonstrated more restraint, because now he appears bias against all who believe in the God of the Bible/Torah and Koran.
26 posted on 03/22/2012 1:24:11 PM PDT by OldGoatCPO
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To: slumber1

In a better world, the atheist would be beaten by the parishioners and sent to prison by the judge and the doctors, staff and women having abortions would be convicted of capital murder.


27 posted on 03/22/2012 1:24:16 PM PDT by Uncle Slayton
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To: Dogbert41

In the face of such evil we all must do something. Deitrich Bonhoeffer stated that “not to act, is to act”.


28 posted on 03/22/2012 1:26:21 PM PDT by the_Watchman
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To: Morgana

Do Canadian judges get sworn in? If so, I wonder to what god this judge swore to.


29 posted on 03/22/2012 1:26:21 PM PDT by houeto (Mitt Romney - A Whiter Shade of FAIL)
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To: magritte
I wouldn’t want her or an atheist in my house if I didn’t invite them. Would you?

I'm not killing people so there is no real comparison.

30 posted on 03/22/2012 1:32:56 PM PDT by DaveyB (Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. -John Adams)
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To: slumber1

“I’m not an abortion supporter but I wonder how we’d react if an atheist came into a church and started passing out atheist literature. Would the church members not have the right to remove him from the property? Someone explain to me how this is any different.”

I go to an ELCA church, so you never quite know, but I suspect knowing a good many of the members there that he’d be invited to fellowship afterward.

No more zealous convert than an atheist.


31 posted on 03/22/2012 1:34:49 PM PDT by RinaseaofDs (Does beheading qualify as 'breaking my back', in the Jeffersonian sense of the expression?)
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To: Dogbert41; Uncle Slayton; achilles2000; Nervous Tick; Dr. Sivana; pgyanke

Ok better still - a representative of Planned Parenthood walks into a pro-life counseling center and starts handing out pro abortion material. And lets say for good measure that it is her sincere and deeply held belief that she is doing good by offering these women a way out of their pregnancy, perhaps she even believes she is in some way serving God. (I agree that she is deceived about her beliefs but that is not the point here)

Does the counseling center have the right to remove her from the property and does the court have the right to jail her if she continues to trespass. And most importantly would you guys defend her right to do so as you have defended this woman.


32 posted on 03/22/2012 1:35:15 PM PDT by slumber1 (Don't taze me bro!)
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To: Morgana
“You appear to be governed by a higher moral order than the laws of our country.”

Well, the scummy dirtbag got one thing right, anyway.

33 posted on 03/22/2012 1:35:23 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: Morgana

Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne,
Yet that scaffold sways the future, and, behind the dim unknown,
Standeth God within the shadow, keeping watch above his own.

—The Present Crisis. James Russell Lowell


34 posted on 03/22/2012 1:36:47 PM PDT by Engraved-on-His-hands (Mitt Romney is a handbasket driver. I refuse to ride.)
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To: Nifster
Diet of Worms, 3 and a half years later.
35 posted on 03/22/2012 1:39:02 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: slumber1
You need someone to explain the difference between a church and an abortion clinic. Really. Hm.
36 posted on 03/22/2012 1:40:45 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: apillar
...but the law has to enforced neutrally

I could not disagree more. The law must be enforced equally, but never neutrally. Law is the authority of and for the civil magistrate and the civil magistrate is the minister of God (Romans 13). The judge may think he is god, but that matters little to reality. for example I may not believe in gravity after all I cannot see it, and in my disbelief I jump off a tall building. My belief or lack of belief will not matter when gravity propels me to the Earth and I a make an impact. The judge is not above God, he is not a god, he is under God and will answer to Him. His duty is first to God and them to civic law. He may not agree, but one day he will - like or not.

37 posted on 03/22/2012 1:42:22 PM PDT by DaveyB (Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. -John Adams)
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To: slumber1

Most of the pro-lifers I know would welcome such a person, and a chance to educate him, as well as the mother. Our arguments are better, as they are true. We generally don’t resort to ad hominems, and completely avoid straw men. As long as the conversation continues, the mother isn’t killing her child.


38 posted on 03/22/2012 1:43:44 PM PDT by Dr. Sivana (May Mitt Romney be the Paul Tsongas of 2012.)
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To: Uncle Slayton
In a better world, the atheist would be beaten by the parishioners and sent to prison by the judge and the doctors, staff and women having abortions would be convicted of capital murder.

Really????? Christians should physically beat sinners? I'm not sure what bible version you are using but it seems to be missing some verses or something
39 posted on 03/22/2012 1:44:05 PM PDT by slumber1 (Don't taze me bro!)
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To: slumber1

I’d welcome an atheist in our church passing out literature. It would give Christians an opportunity to show them Christian charity. Divine appointments are a good thing.


40 posted on 03/22/2012 1:45:07 PM PDT by FourPeas ("Maladjusted and wigging out is no way to go through life, son." -hg)
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To: slumber1
I see you didnt think that one thru. :D I rather suspect they would invite him to sit and hear what they had to say. Its a ready made opportunity to preach the Gospel. Even tho the press portrays Christians as bigots not willing to hear its really just a bunch of projection. Its really the left thats narrow and unwilling. I think you need to show up at church more often...then you wouldnt ask such questions. :)
41 posted on 03/22/2012 1:45:40 PM PDT by 556x45
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To: Morgana

The part that jumped out at me was the Judge saying, she had no right to cause these Women Extra Pain and Grief. That must mean He thinks they are suffering so why would He be so for it. Oh FYI , just a side note, got a new VA handbook the other day, was glancing through it and The VA does not pay for abortions, I wonder if The Boy in the Oval knows that.lol


42 posted on 03/22/2012 1:51:04 PM PDT by easternsky
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To: Morgana

get ready. soon we may all have to decide whether to deny Jesus or to go to jail.


43 posted on 03/22/2012 1:54:09 PM PDT by dadfly
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To: dadfly
we may all have to decide whether to deny Jesus or to go to jail.

Decide now and avoid the rush!

44 posted on 03/22/2012 1:58:42 PM PDT by DaveyB (Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. -John Adams)
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To: Morgana

she was wrong to tresspass.

the judge is wrong on a fundamental right issue by bringing religion into the ruling.

you violated probation, the end. done.

it is kanada so who knows what they will do.


45 posted on 03/22/2012 2:00:00 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: slumber1

As long as he doesn’t interrupt the service or Sunday school, he’s fine.


46 posted on 03/22/2012 2:09:36 PM PDT by Little Ray (FOR the best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: longtermmemmory
she was wrong to tresspass.

If you were passing by and witnessed a victim of a drive-by shooting and that victim happened to fall back onto private property and you also happened to notice a do not trespass sign on that property would you morally compelled to trespass and help the victim even though your odds of saving him are small or is it a higher moral duty to stay off the property and allow the victim to die?

47 posted on 03/22/2012 2:11:51 PM PDT by DaveyB (Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. -John Adams)
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To: Morgana

That “judge” is going to get an eye-opener when he sees the real Judge of the Universe.


48 posted on 03/22/2012 2:12:21 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Morgana

Judge should have left religion out of it, but if she’s breaking the law, and admits she’ll continue to do so if released, then she should remain in prison. Maybe her path is to minister to her fellow prisoners?

Mary Wagner’s Arrest November 8th 2011 Bloor St West Women’s Clinic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIZNx-IhONs


49 posted on 03/22/2012 2:12:40 PM PDT by krobara18
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To: slumber1

You are talking about someone soliciting what should be capital murder. Thank you for playing.


50 posted on 03/22/2012 2:14:18 PM PDT by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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