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Jets QB Drew Stanton wants out
espn.com ^ | 3/22/2012 | Rich Cimini

Posted on 03/22/2012 2:06:43 PM PDT by Black_Shark

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To: Black_Shark; All

I heard Steve Young’s view io this Sanchez/Tebow relationship and his with Joe Montana, this AM.
It made more sense to me than all the other chatter that I’ve heard.
His comments were, to paraphrase: Joe hated to have him around competing as back-up. They each wanted more snaps they pressured each other and Steve thinks his years behind Joe benefited him. He mention Joe, like Sanchez, was a laid back California Dude and didn’t want to work hard until they were pressing one another.
I believe he thinks that Ryan made this move to push Sanchez.


51 posted on 03/22/2012 3:18:00 PM PDT by GOYAKLA (Recall/ Impeachment Day, November 6, 2012. FUBO)
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To: discostu

It is why Manning will be back in an MRI unit before December.


52 posted on 03/22/2012 3:18:09 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Black_Shark

It’s starting to get interrrrestink!


53 posted on 03/22/2012 3:20:07 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: GSWarrior

I disagree. Elway made it clear last season that he didn’t like Tebow, didn’t want him on the team, and was stuck with him. Elway is a vindictive, small minded man. His first years in the pros were SO BAD they should have laughed him out of the league. It is perfectly feasible to think that Elway, given the opportunity to dump on Tebow, would make sure the trade damaged him. I hope the broncos finish last forever. And I hope Elway is driven out of town on a rail!


54 posted on 03/22/2012 3:20:29 PM PDT by Doc Savage ("I've shot people I like a lot more,...for a lot less!" Raylan Givins)
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To: discostu

“When on a 3 step drop you miss an open receiver by 5 yards that’s not the o-line or the receivers, that’s the QB. The minute he got drafted his college number meant nothing, he’s now a PROFESSIONAL football player and gets paid to put up numbers in the NFL. Again just like normal world professions, college don’t mean a thing once you’re a pro.”

Well, in his 2nd year as a pro, Tebow took over a 1-4 team, and took them to the 2nd round of the playoffs - that’s better than 24 other pro quarterbacks in the league were able to do last year...


55 posted on 03/22/2012 3:22:43 PM PDT by CA Conservative (Texan by birth, Californian by circumstance)
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To: CA Conservative

http://www.nfl.com/player/timtebow/497135/gamelogs

Week 19 vs Pats 17 incompletions.
Week 18 vs Steelers 11
Week 17 16
16 again
Only 11 against the Pats in the regular season
19 against Chicago.

Adding 4 or 5 completions to those games really doesn’t help his completion percentage very well. Yeah there’s a few games where it would have a dramatic effect, week 13 vs Minn where he went 10 of 15, week 10 vs KC 2 of 8. But there are more games like week 8 vs Detroit where he went 18 of 39 where a “gift” of 4 or 5 still leaves him with a lousy performance. And it’s probable that in those games with few receptions the receivers didn’t drop 4 or 5.


56 posted on 03/22/2012 3:23:54 PM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: jwalsh07

That might be, but they AREN’T why Tebow has a 47.3 completion percentage.


57 posted on 03/22/2012 3:25:21 PM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: CA Conservative

He took them to an 8-8 record where they got to the playoffs because their division is horrible. Let’s keep it real here, if the Raiders or Chargers manage to win one more game no playoffs. Went to KC, a team so bad they’d already fired their coach, with a win and you’re in situation and completed 6 passes.

He’s a nice guy, but he is not a good QB. He might improve but the current stats say he’s a bad QB. He can’t read defenses, he can’t do timing passes, he can’t hit open receivers. And the fact that people gotta go waving around his college numbers shows something. Not many other discussions about players that have been in the NFL 2 years involve their college numbers.


58 posted on 03/22/2012 3:29:05 PM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: magritte

Tebow not making money?

The real idiot is the new owner of the Jags!

With Tebow’s popularity in Florida and the Jags lousy record for years of never filling our stadium....they could have paid Tebow a $20 million dollar signing bonus and made that up the first year he played in ticket sales and merchandise!
Khan is supposed to be a brilliant busnessman..yeah, right.


59 posted on 03/22/2012 3:29:27 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (NEWT in 2012)
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To: Black_Shark
"Finally, let’s not forget that Tebow has one of the highest overall IQ’s of all QB’s and has by far and away the greatest work ethic."

You could also make a strong argument that Tebow is the best overall athelete of any NFL QB.

60 posted on 03/22/2012 3:33:11 PM PDT by circlecity
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To: discostu

“That might be, but they AREN’T why Tebow has a 47.3 completion percentage.”

John Elway played 11 games in 1983 and completed 47.5% of his passes, and had 14 interceptions.

http://www.nfl.com/player/johnelway/2500547/careerstats

Whether Tebow will be a successful NFL QB is yet to be decided.


61 posted on 03/22/2012 3:34:53 PM PDT by Will88
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To: discostu
Adding 4 or 5 completions to those games really doesn’t help his completion percentage very well.

Well sure, if you going to cherry pick his worst games to try to prove your point, you can make a seemingly valid argument. But I could also cherry pick his best games, and say that without those dropped passes, he would have a 90%+ completion rate... That's why we use averages - to avoid cherry picking just the good or bad examples. He had some bad weeks - but he must have had some very GOOD weeks as well. If he had double digit incompletions every week, he would have had a completion percentage of about 20%...

And he still did better than 24 other QBs - It doesn't matter if you can throw for 3000 yards and have a 90% completion percentage if you are at home watching the playoffs on TV come January...

62 posted on 03/22/2012 3:36:16 PM PDT by CA Conservative (Texan by birth, Californian by circumstance)
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To: Will88

Didn’t say he wouldn’t be a successful QB. Said he is not, right now, a good QB. Might get better. Might not. That’s the future, I’m talking about now... well really last season and whether or not he’d have been dramatically better with a different o-line and receivers.


63 posted on 03/22/2012 3:39:33 PM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: CA Conservative

Thanks for doing the math for me, I was too lazy to look it up and calculate it out ;) haha


64 posted on 03/22/2012 3:40:50 PM PDT by Black_Shark
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To: free me

Funny, I am a huge Bronco fan and a huge Tebow fan. And I think he is a terrific quarterback. Unconventional but he does inspire, lead and rally. Those are qualities that you want in a QB. The position is more than just completion percentage.

I am simply disgusted that the Broncos bought Manning. I will buy no tickets and I will not buy anything with a Broncos logo. I’m not even going to watch.


65 posted on 03/22/2012 3:40:59 PM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: discostu
He took them to an 8-8 record where they got to the playoffs because their division is horrible.

He took them to 8-8 after starting at 1-4. He won 64% of the games he started in the regular season. Extend that to the full season of 16 games, and you would have a 10-6 record. That's a better record than the NY Giants had in the regular season, and they won the Super Bowl, as I recall...

66 posted on 03/22/2012 3:41:24 PM PDT by CA Conservative (Texan by birth, Californian by circumstance)
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To: discostu
"That might be, but they AREN’T why Tebow has a 47.3 completion percentage."

Like many young QBs, Tebow had a tendency to sail the ball over his receiver's heads on medium routes. It's usually very correctable with a good QB coach and I noticed Tebow had cut down on it significantly by the end of the season. So far his decision making skills are above average. If Tebow can just pick up his accuracy a couple of notches he will be a blue chip NBL QB and given his work ethic that is very doable.Whether it happens or not will be seen.

67 posted on 03/22/2012 3:44:14 PM PDT by circlecity
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To: CA Conservative

Listing the results of 7 out of his 12 games last season (15 game stars career) is NOT cherry picking.

His TEAM did better than 24 others. It’s a TEAM sport, 53 guys make it to the divisional round of the playoffs. It’s not just the QB. Especially in this case where Denver’s defense shave 15 point off their PPGA during his run from what they were doing in the first 5 games. Go through that game list and add 15 to the opponents scores and see how HE would have done with the defensive improvements.


68 posted on 03/22/2012 3:45:11 PM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: discostu

And what was the average starting field position of the opposing offense under Kyle Orton and then under Tebow?


69 posted on 03/22/2012 3:48:00 PM PDT by Black_Shark
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To: circlecity

He also throws ground balls, and misses wide, then there’s those non-spinning ducks. He had cut down significantly on it by week 14, then that final 3 game stretch came and it all came back. It’s really those final 3 regular season games that I think wrote his ticket out of town. Prior to then he was showing clear improvement every game. Then came the NE beating, and the Buffalo whipping, and the 6 completions against KC. There was a bit of a bounce back against the Steelers, but then NE beat him like a rug again. We’ll see what the future holds, but there’s good reason Denver is happy to wave goodbye to him.


70 posted on 03/22/2012 3:49:20 PM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: taxcontrol

You don’t sound like a Broncos fan.

Are you upset they traded Brandon Lloyd too? I guess you stopped watching last year when that happened. After all he led the NFL in receiving the previous year.

Some fan.


71 posted on 03/22/2012 3:49:46 PM PDT by free me (heartless)
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To: discostu
I’m talking about now... well really last season and whether or not he’d have been dramatically better with a different o-line and receivers.

Anyone who watched many Bronco games last year would know that any QB would have been better with better protection. I watched one game where Tebow was sacked seven times, three of those times by unblocked rushers. I don't know if his receivers dropped more than average, but the OL was below par most games last year.

Any QB will be incrementally more successful with an incrementally better OL, and the Bronco OL has very large room for improvement.

72 posted on 03/22/2012 3:51:11 PM PDT by Will88
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To: discostu

Now I understand why you are providing such an intense anti-tebow argument. Your favorite team is the Steelers! Therefore, your team got beat by a “horrible NFL QB”. Little biased?


73 posted on 03/22/2012 3:51:42 PM PDT by Black_Shark
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To: discostu
His 0-line isn’t that bad.

It was pretty bad at pass blocking. According to football outsiders, they ranked 29th in pass protection.

74 posted on 03/22/2012 3:52:54 PM PDT by South Hawthorne (In Memory of my dear Friend Henry Lee II)
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To: Black_Shark

Don’t know, probably better actually. Orton actually didn’t play too badly. Had a completion percentage of 59.5 (with that same o-line and receivers Tebow got), put up over 20 points in 4 out of 5 games, his stats aren’t great but they’re good and better than Tebow’s in everything but the w-l. Really the defensive improvements had a lot to do with Tebow’s success, when a team goes from losing games from losing games where they scored 24 to winning games where they score 17 there’s a lot more going on than the QB.


75 posted on 03/22/2012 3:58:24 PM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: South Hawthorne

and yet Orton’s completions percentage with the same line was 19% higher.


76 posted on 03/22/2012 3:59:33 PM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: CA Conservative

But you don’t get to “extend it”, he’s got what he’s got. Also remember only 2 of those 11 games were against teams that finished over 500, both losses. Add in post season and he’s 1-3 vs over 500 teams. Really not that impressive a record.


77 posted on 03/22/2012 4:02:06 PM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: discostu

Nope. It was about 10-15 yards better under Tebow. That might help to explain why the defense suddenly got better once Tebow began starting.


78 posted on 03/22/2012 4:02:25 PM PDT by Black_Shark
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To: Will88

If you can’t hit the target you can’t hit the target, o-line isn’t that big a deal when passes are missed by as far as he did. If the o-line and receivers were that big a part of it why was Orton at 59.5% last year?


79 posted on 03/22/2012 4:03:39 PM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: jwalsh07

Point of discussion:

Removal of the cervical disc makes one shorter, right? Height is a valuable asset for any quarterback (just ask Doug Flutie), so what happens when one’s POV is a half-inch shorter than before?


80 posted on 03/22/2012 4:03:39 PM PDT by cookcounty (Newt 2012: ---> Because he got it DONE.)
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To: Black_Shark

That’s not going shave 2 TDs off the board. One maybe, they dropped 15 points. The defense improved, a lot, that’s a simple fact.


81 posted on 03/22/2012 4:05:20 PM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: Black_Shark

“If the Jets had any sense they would trade Tebow to Jacksonville and try to repair their locker room.”

Just another opinion:

I happen to think that Tebow would and will be a stabilizing influence in the locker room. He seems to have the virtue to smooth-over “disputes” such as what is happening in the Jets’ locker room.


82 posted on 03/22/2012 4:08:01 PM PDT by spel_grammer_an_punct_polise
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To: Doc Savage
Well, I definitely could be wrong.

I often am. ; )

83 posted on 03/22/2012 4:10:34 PM PDT by GSWarrior (Click HERE to read entire tagline.)
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To: discostu
If you can’t hit the target you can’t hit the target, o-line isn’t that big a deal when passes are missed by as far as he did. If the o-line and receivers were that big a part of it why was Orton at 59.5% last year?

Orton was 1-4. Tebow 7-4. Does this tell you anything about completion percentages? It should because Tebow was only throwing on obvious passing downs per coaches philosophy. Not so for Orton. But you're a big football guy, why do I have to explain the obvious?

84 posted on 03/22/2012 4:13:16 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: cookcounty

Nah, the space where the disc is removed is filled with a piece of bone from your pelvis usually. This promotes the fusion of the two C-Spine vertebrae involved, reduces flexibilty and puts further stress on the discs that remain.


85 posted on 03/22/2012 4:18:46 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: discostu

You’re making many sweeping, general statements you couldn’t prove if your life depended on it. Most all NFL QBs take a year or two to adjust to the speed of the pro game and other differences from the college game.

Tebow completed 64% of his passes in college. He might do that some day in the pros, or he might not, but it’s far too soon to draw any conclusions one way or the other.

And it’s still amusing to note that the great John Elway completed 47.5% of his passes his first year of 11 games. Maybe give us a detailed analysis of why his stats were so bad his first year.


86 posted on 03/22/2012 4:28:17 PM PDT by Will88
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To: Black_Shark

whether or not Tebow would start would be a function of his performance at training camp.


87 posted on 03/22/2012 4:42:49 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (Limbaugh: Tim Tebow miracle: "He had atheists praying to God that he would lose.")
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To: Will88; discostu
And it’s still amusing to note that the great John Elway completed 47.5% of his passes his first year of 11 games. Maybe give us a detailed analysis of why his stats were so bad his first year.

Give up...............

88 posted on 03/22/2012 4:48:35 PM PDT by Osage Orange (The MSM is the most dangerous entity in the United States of America.)
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To: kidd

Have you ever seen the movie Everybodys all american wlth dennis quaid...seems to me this is manning trying to reclaim his youth ...the movie and this manning farce does not and will not end well.
I think john elway is an idiot, their back up qb has never played in the NFL, If any one else had taken a team 1 and 4 to the playoffs he would be there forever. Tebow wins and has always won . I hope he gets a chance in new york


89 posted on 03/22/2012 8:28:57 PM PDT by edged25
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To: tflabo

That Manning to Denver deal sure stirred up a lot of ensuing hornets nests in its wake and not just related only to Tim Tebow.
***************************
JMO.... Peyton should have been hired by Denver as the Q-Back coach for Tebow and also as the Asst. Offensive Coordinator. He essentially ran the offense for the Colts, calling the plays and making the on field decisions.

Such a career change would lead to Offensive Coordinator and eventually a Head Coach position with a team. With his age and potential for a severe injury, I think that would have been much better for him and his family.

Oh... wait.... I forgot about the mega-millions for him signing a contract.


90 posted on 03/23/2012 2:22:42 AM PDT by octex
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To: ObamaMustGo2012

Tebow.


91 posted on 03/23/2012 4:24:23 AM PDT by Above My Pay Grade (.)
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To: Black_Shark

Interesting that Elway got Manning from the Colts, a team he refused to play for when he was the number one draft choice.


92 posted on 03/23/2012 4:37:18 AM PDT by N. Theknow (Kennedys=Can't drive, can't ski, can't fly, can't skipper a boat, but they know what's best for you.)
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To: jwalsh07

Orton was putting up over 20 points a game, Tebow under 17. Does this tell you something about the W-L record? It should because it shows that a team is a 53 man roster and more goes into winning and losing than the QB.


93 posted on 03/23/2012 7:00:12 AM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: Will88

Actually all of my statements are based in the statistics readily available on the NFL web page, they’re already proven.

College numbers mean nothing. He’s in the pros now. He could have 100% completions in college it wouldn’t add one single completion to his pro stats. I never said he wouldn’t get better.

Elway’s were bad in the beginning for much the same reason Tebow’s were: he wasn’t actually a good QB, not at the NFL level. Elway grew and improved. So far Tebow has not. Don’t know if he will or not, I have made exactly ZERO statements on how Tebow’s career winds up, all my statement are about where he’s at as of the end of last season, which is: not a good QB, not at the NFL level.


94 posted on 03/23/2012 7:03:37 AM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: Osage Orange

There’s nothing to give up. You’re the guys who can’t seem to understand simple statements. Over and over I’ve pointed out that I’m not talking about future Tebow yet over and over you point to Elway’s eventual improvement like that proves anything. It has ZERO to do with what I’m talking about, which is past to present Tebow. Past to present Tebow is not a good QB, he throws a lot of balls at the grass and fumbles a lot. Could change, might not, not in my discussion, my discussion is NOW. Now maybe YOU should give up.


95 posted on 03/23/2012 7:06:14 AM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: Black_Shark

Awwww BACKUP QBs are so cute when they have temper tantrums.....


96 posted on 03/23/2012 7:10:11 AM PDT by commish (Freedom tastes sweetest to those who have fought to preserve it.)
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To: discostu

“Very intelligently missing your receiver by 5 yards is still missing your receiver by 5 yards and when all that work ethic doesn’t get the ball any closer to your receivers it really didn’t work. Nobody hates him at all, much less for his faith. They simply point out the plainly obvious fact that he’s not a very good QB. He a nice guy, the problem is there’s a bunch of people out there that think just because he prays must mean he’s great at everything and all criticism is evil, meanwhile out here in reality he’s not great and he faces the same criticism every other QB that can’t hit open receivers gets.”

If Tebow was the starting quarterback... you might have an arguement... but coming off cold from the bench and expected to save a game or finish a game already won... you can’t expect his current stats to reflect his true potential. Make him a starter... then he will need to perform as one.


97 posted on 03/23/2012 7:44:07 AM PDT by Mashood
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To: Mashood

His current stats include 13 games as the starter, including 2 playoff games.


98 posted on 03/23/2012 9:51:05 AM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: discostu

He already has as many playoff victories as Tony Romo.


99 posted on 03/23/2012 9:53:44 AM PDT by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: Black_Shark

This reminds me of the way the NFL treated Flutie, especially the Bills, when, as a perennial CFL MVP, he was benched for the “QB of the future,” Rob Johnson.

The future never came for Rob.


100 posted on 03/23/2012 9:58:11 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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