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Refuse to pay 'Smart Meter' op-out fees
Natural Remedies Matter ^ | 03/22/2012 | Libertynotfree

Posted on 03/22/2012 4:27:29 PM PDT by Libertynotfree

We the below refuse to pay any additional fees to retain our analog meters or have smart meters that were installed without our permission replaced with a safe, reliable analog.

Please spread the word and have everyone you know sign this Petition.

(Excerpt) Read more at naturalremediesmatter.com ...


TOPICS: Health/Medicine; Local News; Miscellaneous; Science
KEYWORDS: blogpimp; health; pge; radiation; smartmeter
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 03/22/2012 4:27:35 PM PDT by Libertynotfree
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To: Libertynotfree

We just got a notice that if we don’t want the “smart meter” we have to pay a $35 fee, then $15 a month to stay on the opt out.
ah, No! You do not pay not to do something.


2 posted on 03/22/2012 4:34:45 PM PDT by svcw (CLEAN WATER & Education http://www.longlostsis.com/PI/MayanHelp2012.html)
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To: Libertynotfree

thank you for this post. i’ve been fighting pg&e smart meters since their inception. and yes they are now trying to shake us down for an “opt out” fee. i actually had to stand in the way of my fenced off and locked analog meter to keep one from being installed.


3 posted on 03/22/2012 4:36:03 PM PDT by dadfly
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To: Libertynotfree

This really has me going! I just got notice today that Southern California Edison is going to charge me $75 plus $10 a month to opt out — IF the CA Utilities Commission decides to allow opt-outs at its May meeting. I sense a full-bore rebellion coming. If we don’t stop this then America has become a sick joke.


4 posted on 03/22/2012 4:45:20 PM PDT by Bernard Marx
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To: Libertynotfree

I had read about these smart meters and was going to contact the electric company about opting out. A few days later, I noticed our old meter had been replaced with a shiny new meter. I did read that the EMR readings from these are high. Our bedroom is just through the wall from this thing. I just don’t want this thing on our house.


5 posted on 03/22/2012 4:50:53 PM PDT by Cowgirl of Justice
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To: Libertynotfree
safe, reliable analog

Are there really people this willfully ignorant in the world?

As a designer of smart meters, I challenge anyone to show me mean-time-between-failures figures that prove that analog meters are more reliable than electronic.

You can't.

Electronic meters HAVE NO MOVING PARTS TO WEAR OUT.

Not long ago, one of my customers sent back a "smart" gas meter that had been in the field since 1987.

Yes, you read that right.

And it was still working.

And they're plenty safe, folks. It's not ionizing radiation, it's radio waves, same as your cell phone, baby monitor, and wireless key fob for your car. I did the calculations for safe RF exposure myself, folks. It's not going to hurt you.

No, smart meters cannot report on how often you have sex, what magazines you read, or whether you are a candidate to go to a FEMA camp. It JUST MEASURES POWER/WATER/GAS. It doesn't have the computer power, memory, or gumption to do anything else. It just obeys its boring little program, reporting meter readings ever 4 hours so the utility company can balance their loads.

Sheesh, can we stop with the smart meter paranoia on FR already?

6 posted on 03/22/2012 5:20:59 PM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: svcw

I have heard from several sources that after getting a smart meter their monthly bills went up rather more than that $35.


7 posted on 03/22/2012 5:21:28 PM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's "Economics In One Lesson.")
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To: Cowgirl of Justice
I did read that the EMR readings from these are high.

(forehead smack)

On what frequency? Are you sure the EM readings are at 902 - 928 MHz (license-free band)? Are you sure it's not at 60 Hz (power line frequency), because the inductance of the current transformer in your particular smart meter is higher than that of your old analog meter?

You don't even know what you're talking about, do you?

8 posted on 03/22/2012 5:26:11 PM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: Cowgirl of Justice
I did read that the EMR readings from these are high.

(forehead smack)

On what frequency? Are you sure the EM readings are at 902 - 928 MHz (license-free band)? Are you sure it's not at 60 Hz (power line frequency), because the inductance of the current transformer in your particular smart meter is higher than that of your old analog meter?

You don't even know what you're talking about, do you?

9 posted on 03/22/2012 5:28:31 PM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: arthurus
I have heard from several sources that after getting a smart meter their monthly bills went up rather more than that $35.

Probably because the old analog meter was out of calibration, and was reading low. That doesn't happen to electronic ("smart") electric meters.

10 posted on 03/22/2012 5:30:02 PM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: backwoods-engineer

http://smartmeterskill.com/?p=43

Apparently, YOU are the one who doesn’t know what they are talking about. Hit that forehead a little harder next time, will ya?


11 posted on 03/22/2012 5:36:20 PM PDT by Cowgirl of Justice
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To: backwoods-engineer

while they may be “smart” and you claim “safe” I like my mechanical one..

You can’t send it a signal to “adjust” the amount of electricity used. You can’t send it a signal to limit my usage..

my electric company can’t even read my meter with out coming out to my house.

I like it that way.


12 posted on 03/22/2012 6:08:32 PM PDT by cableguymn (Good thing I am a conservative. Otherwise I would have to support Mittens like Republicans do.)
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To: Cowgirl of Justice

Your ref. site says NOTHING.
IT isn’t even opposed to ‘smart’ meters. Just EMF.
You dont have a toaster? microwave oven? electric blanket?
sorry - backwoods engineer wins this round.


13 posted on 03/22/2012 6:12:34 PM PDT by aumrl (let's keep it real Conservatives)
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To: backwoods-engineer

Probably because the old analog meter was out of calibration, and was reading low. That doesn’t happen to electronic (”smart”) electric meters.


oh ya.. sure... that’s got to be it (rolling eyes)

I fought with my electric company for years. my bill was twice what it was at a different apartment..

I got behind on my payments (lost my job) and the electric company came out and shut off my electricity..

Wouldn’t you know it, the apartment next door and half the hallway lights went out with it.

What I am getting at is all the long I heard “sir, there is no way our meter is out of calibration. *that does not happen*”

Turns out they where right.

Also turns out the landlord was in a heep of trouble. Apartment next doors meter was feeding a hallway closet. Their bill was 10 bucks a month. They never questioned it (hey.. I wouldn’t either)

Landlord ended up eating the whole bill back to the day I moved in under Minnesota law. (shared meter law)


14 posted on 03/22/2012 6:14:24 PM PDT by cableguymn (Good thing I am a conservative. Otherwise I would have to support Mittens like Republicans do.)
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To: dadfly

I suggest that they should shut off your electricity!!


15 posted on 03/22/2012 6:15:29 PM PDT by dalereed
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To: cableguymn

the company can put meter on pole.
the company can turn off your transformer secondary.
dont be a flat earther - as the great pretender would say


16 posted on 03/22/2012 6:15:29 PM PDT by aumrl (let's keep it real Conservatives)
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To: Libertynotfree; WmShirerAdmirer; lilycicero; MaryLou1; glock rocks; JPG; Monkey Face; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.


17 posted on 03/22/2012 6:17:59 PM PDT by narses
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To: Cowgirl of Justice
Bullcrap. I design them for a living. I know I am talking about.

Some website that claim these meters "kill"?

You're kidding, right?

18 posted on 03/22/2012 6:18:14 PM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: cableguymn
my electric company can’t even read my meter with out coming out to my house. I like it that way.

Why? So your electricity costs more due to them having to roll a truck when no physical presence is necessary?

Sorry, I have no sympathy for this. If you want electricity, it should be metered how the company who sells it to you wants it to be metered. Otherwise, disconnect the juice and live off-grid.

19 posted on 03/22/2012 6:21:28 PM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: arthurus; cableguymn

Actually the analog meters do go out of calibration ,, you see they have magnets inside that slow/stop the rotation of the mechanism (braking magnets) , and when they get old (or damaged by lightning or whatever) they typically start reading HIGHER than they should ... a common way to lower your meter readings is to place a STRONG magnet on the side of the box... also those screw adjusters you commonly see that are labeled F and S (fast / slow) they indicate the METER is FAST or METER is SLOW ... if you crank the “SLOW” adjuster you SPEED UP the meter..


20 posted on 03/22/2012 6:40:23 PM PDT by Neidermeyer
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To: backwoods-engineer

” Some website that claim these meters “kill”?”

As do cell phones and your neighbors wireless router and so many other things in your immediately vaccinty. I’m sure life expectancies are plummeting.


21 posted on 03/22/2012 6:43:20 PM PDT by Lurkina.n.Learnin (The democratic party is the greatest cargo cult in history.)
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To: svcw

We just got a notice that if we don’t want the “smart meter” we have to pay a $35 fee, then $15 a month to stay on the opt out.
ah, No! You do not pay not to do something.
*************************************************
Electronic meters at my house but not RF readable ...

Don’t waste your time ,, this is a non-issue ,,, the electric companies are just trying to save on employee expense. If you’re going to make them send someone out to physically read the meter you’re going to pay for it.


22 posted on 03/22/2012 6:45:12 PM PDT by Neidermeyer
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To: cableguymn
feeding a hallway closet. Their bill was 10 bucks a month.

LOL!

23 posted on 03/22/2012 6:45:16 PM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: backwoods-engineer

Involuntarily have a SM on my house currently. FPL - we’ve only lost service a couple times in a yr. And after HURRICANE WILMA we were only out 2.5 days! Across the street was out for 2 wks though. Gotta hand it to FPL on that one. Hurricane Andrew wiped out electricity for 2 months.

Last month’s electric bill was $50 for 29 days. $1.75/day.

I don’t like the freq. though. It’s microwave. Microwaves fry. Depends on the duration, proximity etc. but it is not negligable. Our houses are CBS, so that’s the only reason I don’t care about the EMR. If I was in a wooden house, I would be more concerned.

Didn’t the original engineer for Motorola’s cell phone get a brain tumor?


24 posted on 03/22/2012 6:47:09 PM PDT by bicyclerepair ( REPLACE D-W-S ! http://www.karenforcongress.com)
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To: Neidermeyer
F and S (fast / slow)

Exactly right. My company also refurbishes old analog meters, and I have seen the ladies on the line calibrating these.

The fact that analog meters can get out of calibration (moving parts again) is yet another reason electronic meters will soon be universal. E-meters use a single crystal for timing and a single precision voltage reference for both current and voltage measurements; neither get out of calibration.

25 posted on 03/22/2012 6:50:14 PM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: Neidermeyer

We already pay for them to come out, this would be a fee on top of tat.


26 posted on 03/22/2012 6:51:48 PM PDT by svcw (CLEAN WATER & Education http://www.longlostsis.com/PI/MayanHelp2012.html)
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To: bicyclerepair
I don’t like the freq. though. It’s microwave. Microwaves fry.

No, it's not.

Microwaves used in your oven are around 2.45 GHz. The frequency is chosen because it's a peak in the absorption vs. frequency graph for water molecules. Those waves are designed to "jiggle" water and heat it.

Major electric meter companies: Landis & Gyr, GE (no longer in the home meter market), SmartSync, Itron and Elster ALL use 902-928 MHz. I know because I work for one of them (not going to tell you which one).

That is not microwave. That is UHF.

And by the way, all of our meters put out less than 1 Watt at 902-928 MHz (most are less than 1/4 Watt). Amateur radio operators are LEGALLY allowed to transmit 1,500 Watts on 902-928 MHz, aimed right at your house.

And believe me, I would do it.

27 posted on 03/22/2012 6:57:21 PM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: backwoods-engineer

Thanks for the info. Have also been hearing of these “smart” meters and about same time our Elect. provider began “offering” some “smart thermostat” or somesuch. I think many, include self, have smart meter confused with the smart thermostat thingy.

Couple of years ago ONCOR replaced our analog meter with one they can read over the powerline, their reasoning was to quit the meterreaders.

I seriously doubt the smart meter has any way to cut power or reduce power to us and as you say is to report usage every 4 hours. Interrupting 200 amps is not something that could be done in that small smart meter package. Right?


28 posted on 03/22/2012 6:58:59 PM PDT by X-spurt (Its time for ON YOUR FEET or on your knees)
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To: svcw

We already pay for them to come out, this would be a fee on top of tat.
****************************************************
They want to stop using manpower to read something that can be easily RF transmitted or backfed over the lines to a central station. This is a non-issue ... I would love to have a remote readable meter to have one less person come around.


29 posted on 03/22/2012 7:00:39 PM PDT by Neidermeyer
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To: Cowgirl of Justice

That web site looks like you must either smile a lot or put on tinfoil hat to read.

Who produced the web site?


30 posted on 03/22/2012 7:06:45 PM PDT by X-spurt (Its time for ON YOUR FEET or on your knees)
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To: X-spurt

That “smart thermostat” thing is a remote operated cutoff for your AC / heat and water heater ... could also control heavy motors like a pool pump , they state xx minutes off in a xx hour period but they always seem to exceed the promise when they’re short on power, the purpuse is to let the electric utility run their main generator (coal , nat gas , oil ) up to VERY near full capacity and then spike demand when it gets critical long enough to fire up their secondary generators (basically jet engine driven), it keeps them from having to fire up the jet engines as often saving them fuel.. typically they offer peanuts ... not worth it ... I tried it maybe 20 years ago and had the box go bad ,, lost AC and hot water for a few days .. not cool...


31 posted on 03/22/2012 7:09:33 PM PDT by Neidermeyer
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To: Neidermeyer

This device you mentioned is not what people are being fee’d for refusing.

Have heard others with same complaints about the smart thermostat. That thing I would fight against.

Smart meter, living in the country I’m happy to not have some stranger just showing up on my place. Who knew if they were for certain from the power company?


32 posted on 03/22/2012 7:26:25 PM PDT by X-spurt (Its time for ON YOUR FEET or on your knees)
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To: X-spurt

This device you mentioned is not what people are being fee’d for refusing.
************************************************
I understand that ,, your reply#28 spoke to 2 different subjects ,, meters and the remote cutoff device which most utilities give a small bonus to their customers who have it installed (in my area it’s $15/month). In my reply I was taking to the “remote cutoff” device mention and not the meters themselves.


33 posted on 03/22/2012 7:40:42 PM PDT by Neidermeyer
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To: backwoods-engineer

My objection is that these utilities are getting government subsidies to install these. If so much money is to be saved, why does it take the government to finance this?


34 posted on 03/22/2012 7:59:21 PM PDT by gunnut
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To: X-spurt; backwoods-engineer
Have also been hearing of these “smart” meters and about same time our Elect. provider began “offering” some “smart thermostat” or somesuch. I think many, include self, have smart meter confused with the smart thermostat thingy.

I don't confuse the two but I know smart meters are simply the "camel's nose under the tent" for Big Brother thermostats. Once ratepayers are comfortable with that concept, centrally-controlled thermostats will follow like night follows day.

Utility companies and state PUCs have happily jumped into bed with Obama's energy program. When he says under his plan energy prices "will necessarily skyrocket," that's music to their ears. My electricity rates have more than doubled in the past 3 years and "smart meters" will increase them even more. My "smart" water meter has caused my bill to jump about 20% even with a decrease in usage. I trust the utility companies as much as I trust the EPA.

35 posted on 03/22/2012 8:19:17 PM PDT by Bernard Marx
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To: dalereed

really. do you work for pg&e?


36 posted on 03/22/2012 9:44:29 PM PDT by dadfly
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To: dadfly

Hell no but if you want a human to read your meter, pay for it and don’t expect me to subsidize your paranoia!


37 posted on 03/22/2012 9:51:12 PM PDT by dalereed
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To: backwoods-engineer

Quick question for the backwoods engineer - I haven’t been able to dig up any information on this in my last search. On the old electro-mechanical watthour meter, you could read your instantaneous demand by timing the speed of the disk rotation and plugging the time (in seconds) along with a couple of characteristics from the meter (like the watthour constant Kh) and determine your load in watts. I now have an electronic meter on the house and, as you would guess, it has no disk so I can’t time its rotation to determine load.

It’s not that important, but I am curious as to how a user might determine their instantanious demand on one of these.


38 posted on 03/22/2012 10:27:22 PM PDT by meyer (Fluke - the new "F" word)
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To: dalereed

LOL, oh, don’t worry, they are making us pay. rates are up for everyone i talk to (you’d think they’d go down at least for a little while since these meters are so smart), we have to a 75 dollar “setup” for nothing in our case and a monthly fine or surcharge. and for those who just want their old meter back, they get to pay for their old meter and installation.

some people are apparently so “paranoid” that they are having headaches and trouble sleeping with these meters installed on their bedroom walls.

this of course doesn’t even get into the tyranny CARB, CPUC and PG&E are unilaterally imposing on us with no legislative mandate whatsoever.

but, thanks for your input. moving on.


39 posted on 03/22/2012 10:34:50 PM PDT by dadfly
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To: backwoods-engineer

If they want an electronic one. Fine. they can install it. However, when that meter takes over how I want to use MY electricity that I pay for.. well.. we have a problem.

As it is. My electric company has no intention of replacing meters with “smart” ones.

They are in the business of selling electricity, not limiting ones ability to use it.

my gas company however charges more per unit the more you use.


40 posted on 03/22/2012 11:46:50 PM PDT by cableguymn (Good thing I am a conservative. Otherwise I would have to support Mittens like Republicans do.)
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To: meyer

Our meters have a display (LCD) that cycles between various readings, and one of them is instantaneous demand. It would depend on the model you have.


41 posted on 03/23/2012 4:51:06 AM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: X-spurt
I seriously doubt the smart meter has any way to cut power or reduce power to us and as you say is to report usage every 4 hours. Interrupting 200 amps is not something that could be done in that small smart meter package. Right?

Uh, no. All of our electric meter models can be ordered with internal disconnect contactors. We have a patented method that reduces arcing on disconnect.

Power is disconnected, of course, if you don't pay, and every state has different laws on when power can be disconnected by a utility.

As to the load-shedding functions (e.g., air conditioning compressor or pool pump disconnect), you have to opt in to that. It doesn't make sense at my house (we homeschool and someone is always here), so I didn't opt into it, even though we have a smart meter. Even if you do, you can go out and push a button, and the pool pump or whatever will come back on.

Ironically, the smart meter at my house is made by my competitor. Uggh.

42 posted on 03/23/2012 4:55:43 AM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: cableguymn
My electric company has no intention of replacing meters with “smart” ones. They are in the business of selling electricity, not limiting ones ability to use it.

Which is exactly why they should be going to electronic meters.

I know you don't understand the electric biz, so I will explain. AC electricity can't be efficiently stored like gas or water can. So, when demand gets high (e.g., middle of the day), additional generating capacity must be brought on-line, OR loads must be reduced ("shed" we call it) to balance supply and demand. If neither is done, line voltage and/or frequency will sag; both stress out transformers.

Electric utilities use smart meters to know the onset of peak demand, so they can decide to shed loads with companies and people who have agreed to have that equipment (e.g., aluminum foundries), or bring on-line natural-gas generators (very expensive per kWH).

Electronic meters reduce the overall cost of electricity to the consumer. Analog meters cannot report peak demand, and therefore do not help the utility decide when to load-shed or bring additional capacity on-line. If I was an electric utility, I would charge an extra fee for every analog meter. But then I understand what electronic meters can do for my customer.

43 posted on 03/23/2012 5:02:52 AM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: dadfly

i’ve been fighting pg&e smart meters since their inception.

You are lucky. Where I live we had no option, looked out one day and the power co. were installing the new meter. And now I learn we will be paying what they call, ‘peak power”. April first, from nine cent per kilowatt to twenty seven cent per kilowatt from the hours of four PM to twelve midnight.
We are part of TVA which uses coal fired power plants. Obrainless has ordered all Coal fired plants closed within the next two years. I suppose we will have to learn to crawl onto a rock to stay warm during the Winter months, and find a cave to stay cool in the Summer?


44 posted on 03/23/2012 5:41:24 AM PDT by buck61
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To: Cowgirl of Justice; backwoods-engineer

My objection is this:
As it stands, I get a certain amount of electricity at the base rate, over the base it costs a bit more, and over that I pay the highest rate. By being careful I can keep my bills down. The “smart” meter charges the highest rate at the time of day I need it most. No matter how careful I am, I pay the highest rate. It was designed to be thus. It is nothing more than a way for Edison to rip me off. I will die of a heat stroke before I die of any EMP-caused cancer.


45 posted on 03/23/2012 10:28:18 AM PDT by Excellence (9/11 was an act of faith.)
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To: backwoods-engineer
Our meters have a display (LCD) that cycles between various readings, and one of them is instantaneous demand. It would depend on the model you have.

We've got the Itron brand meter. I can't go out and stare at it because it's raining and I don't want to get wet, but it does have several dsiplays that automatically scroll. Instantaneous demand isn't one of them, IIRC (going by memomory here). I've visited the MfR's web site but not lately.

Our data is sent back to the power board through fiber, the same fiber on which the "smart grid" (also known as "automatic sectionalizing system" in the old days) and my high-speed internet communicates. We're supposed to have online availability of a much greater amount of information soon, but it isn't available yet.

46 posted on 03/23/2012 10:49:04 AM PDT by meyer (Fluke - the new "F" word)
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To: meyer

Let me clarify - when the online data becomes available, it will present us with a 15-minute interval update of usage data. I don’t know if that will include instantaneous demand or cumulative (integrated/averaged) demand over the 15 minute period like the old thermal demand meters gave us.


47 posted on 03/23/2012 10:53:01 AM PDT by meyer (Fluke - the new "F" word)
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To: buck61
We are part of TVA which uses coal fired power plants. Obrainless has ordered all Coal fired plants closed within the next two years. I suppose we will have to learn to crawl onto a rock to stay warm during the Winter months, and find a cave to stay cool in the Summer?

Just to clarify, Odipsh#t hasn't ordered all coal plants closed, but his EPA cronies have squeezed environmental regulations to the point that it doesn't make economic sense to install the necessary (?) emissions controls on many older, less-efficient coal-fired generating units. TVA will be retiring (and has already started) a sizeable portion of its older coal generating fleet, but they have systematically been replacing much of that with gas-fired turbine and combined-cycle gas/steam generating units. The upside is that gas is presently cheap. The downside is that it isn't going to be cheap forever and it makes little sense to put too many eggs in one basket.

Other utilities across the country are doing the same, possibly to the detriment of reliability on the electric grid. If the economy ever recovers for real, things could be pretty dicey in the power industry.

BTW, who's your power distributor? The idea of 27 cent/KWH power is pretty danged horrible. Especially during the hours when you need to run the AC the most.

48 posted on 03/23/2012 11:02:16 AM PDT by meyer (Fluke - the new "F" word)
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To: meyer

Take a look at this.
http://www.watthackers.com/wp/10-energy-saving-devices-to-put-your-house-on-a-diet/


49 posted on 03/23/2012 11:13:53 AM PDT by Master of Orion
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To: Bernard Marx

Move out of town, dig you a well and get off the grid.

My electric went down in the past few years, same KWHr usages, lower cost as have locked in on gas generated power.

Naturally, if nobama is still here come end of Jan. 2013, then the sky’s the limit for everyone not in Texas.


50 posted on 03/23/2012 4:04:46 PM PDT by X-spurt (Its time for ON YOUR FEET or on your knees)
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