Skip to comments.Baseball rule question (please don't kill me!)
Posted on 04/05/2012 1:25:54 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator
I know the rules of baseball can be arcane and--dare I say it?--Talmudic. But I saw something in today's Braves/Mets opener that I simply don't understand. I've done a web search but come up blank.
It's the bottom of the second. Ike Davis is at bat for the Mets; first base is open. He has two strikes on him. He swings and misses at the third strike, but it barely touches the ground before being caught.
Now as I understand it, this entitled him to run for first base. But he didn't. Instead he informed the umpire that the ball had touched the ground (apparently the ump didn't see that) and, rather than being sent to first base, was given another pitch to swing at (what . . . ?). Ironically, he again struck out on a ball in the dirt and this time was thrown out at first base.
I have never seen this situation before and can't find any reference to it. Are there any baseball fan FReepers who know why this third-strike-not-caught got the batter an extra pitch rather than a chance to reach first base?
If the catcher catches it before it hits the ground—it’s strike three.
If it hits the ground—foul ball.
Could he have been arguing that he barely tipped it foul instead of it being a clean swing and miss? That’s the only thing I can think of.
Sounds like a foul tip to me.
Only thing i can think of is the ump may have thought Davis tipped it. Sounds weird but umps get it wrong a few times a year. I’m sure someone else was watching the game. Santana looked good anyway.
You’re right, had to be a foul tip that hit the ground before the catcher caught it.
Ump called a foul tip. Musta been.
Umps usually go by sound on a foul tip. Did the home plate ump make the call himself or did he ask for help from one of the other umpires?
We all know that in baseball not only do the rules have exceptions, but even the exceptions have exceptions.
I thought you were going to ask Skip’s favorite question. “What’s the infield fly rule?” :)
OT: my favorite Skip Carey hot mike moment was after a young girl sang the National Anthem. It was not pretty. Skip said what everyone was thinking, “My God! That was awful!”
That was Skip. :)
The first two foul balls count as strikes, after that fouls are ignored unless caught.
On a third strike if the ball gets away from the catcher the batter can try to run to first. If he beats the throw to first he is safe and the inning continues even though the batter is officially “out”.
Strike 3 has to be caught by the catcher regardless if it was tipped or not. If it hits the ground the runner can run to first and the catcher will have to throw him out just as if he got a hit.
I hate referring anyone to wiki but it is explained well on this topic.
I’m with the crew that thinks a foul tip, so the HPU gave it to him. it’s the only way the scenario makes sense that you have described.
How about if first base is occupied? Does the catcher still have to catch a strike for it to be an out.
Well, the official scorekeeper marks that as the batter bing on 1st base via K-e2 (Strikeout, batter reaching first on an error by the catcher).
The batter is credited on his stats with a strikeout (not an Out).
The more serious question is: what were you doing watching the Mets game?
With less than 2 outs, if 1st base is occupied, the batter is out regardless if the catcher throws to first or not. The baserunner can advance at his own peril.
And let me not pass up the opportunity to say ...
Pete Rose belongs in the Baseball Hall of Fame ...
And Bud Selig is a THUG.
Yes. If first base is occupied the runner can only advance if there are two outs. If only one out or no outs the batter is automatically out. I have always thought this was a weird rule. Strike out is a strike out to me.
The batter becomes a runner when —
(a) He hits a fair ball;
(b) The third strike called by the umpire is not caught, providing (1) first base is unoccupied, or (2) first base is occupied with two out;
Rule 6.09(b) Comment: A batter who does not realize his situation on a third strike not caught, and who is not in the process of running to first base, shall be declared out once he leaves the dirt circle surrounding home plate.
i agree. Let him in!!!
as a fully trained and certified little league umpire, I can say for certain, that the ump in question has the IQ of a misquitoe.... 3 strikes you’re out... if you choose to swing at a ball in the dirt, that is your problem...
If he had merely done drugs, instead of gambling, he would be.
Pete Rose belongs in the Baseball Hall of Fame ...
Certainly as much as Ty Cobb or Tris Speaker.
And Bud Selig is a THUG.
He's ruined baseball. I miss Bowie Kuhn!
That's the "First Place Mets" (all peace and blessings be upon them...)
Death to the Phillies! Death to the Braves!
Rooting for the Mets. And they won! By a score of one to nothing!
It was just like Carl Hubbell! Except a lot messier.
At the very least they should open a Girly-Whining Hall of Fame for him, for sure.
He could also be in the “Most Fake Memoriabilia Sold to Gullible Fans” Hall of Fame!
That's what I thought. And as I said, he finally did strike out and get put out at first on an uncaught third strike. But I thought this happened twice, with the ump merely giving him another pitch to hit the first time.
The announcers didn't act as if anything unusual had happened. I'm going to have to assume, as have many who have answered, that the first one was a foul tip.
If the third strike is not caught and the runner reaches first the pitcher gets recorded for the strike out but the team does not get to record the out. Below is an article from last season with the pitcher recording four strikeouts in an inning.
I did not see the call... if he foul tipped, the ump would have immediately signaled so.... and yes sound is an important part of that decision.. if he hesitated, then he was waiting for the ump behind the pitcher to give him a ruling... either way, this ump should not officiate another game.. home ump is the key, and decisions right or wrong have to be made immediately..what did the ump signal?
A Schwing and a miss on the third strike is a strike out if the catcher catches the pitched ball regardless if it hits the ground or not.....
Tigers beat the Bosox 3-2. Now for slaying the Yankees. Again.
It got me to thinking there was some ultra-arcane rule about uncaught-third-strikes getting batters an extra pitch to hit rather than a chance to take first base in certain situations.
yes and no... the batter can run if the ball hits the ground.. he is technically still out, but can get to and stay on first base.... most teams teach their catchers to touch the batter on strike three, regardless...... this puts the batter out no matter what
Then the pitch you are refering to was deemed by the umpire as a foul tip..no brainer really.
Yes, but the batter is entitled to try to take first base because the ball hit the ground before being caught (nevertheless, it still counts as a strikeout). But that's not what happened. Instead the batter got an extra pitch to hit which ironically ended just this way.
Pete Rose fans collectively laugh in your face.
Major League Records:
Most career hits 4,256
Most career outs 10,328
Most career games played 3,562
Most career at bats 14,053
Most career singles 3,215
Most career runs by a switch hitter 2,165
Most career doubles by a switch hitter 746
Most career walks by a switch hitter 1,566
Most career total bases by a switch hitter 5,752
Most seasons of 200 or more hits 10 (shared)
Most consecutive seasons of 100 or more hits 23
Most consecutive seasons with 600 or more at bats 13 (19681980)
Most seasons with 600 at bats 17
Most seasons with 150 or more games played 17
Most seasons with 100 or more games played 23
Record for playing in the most winning games 1,972
Only player in major league history to play more than 500 games at five different positions 1B (939), LF (671), 3B (634), 2B (628), RF (595)
National League records:
Most years played 24
Most consecutive years played 24
Most career runs 2,165
Most career doubles 746
Most career games with 5 or more hits 10
Modern (post-1900) NL record for longest consecutive game hitting streak NL 44
Modern record for most consecutive hitting streaks of 20 or more games 7
Pete Rose belongs in the Hall of Fame.
it sounds like the catcher did not catch the first “strike three”. If it is a tip, the catcher has to catch it before it hits the ground. Or catch it clean, without touching the ground.
ROFLMAO! The reason your statement is so funny is because a batter only offers advice AFTER the umpire makes his call and it never even comes close to civility..........lol!
He signaled a strikeout, but even then Davis should have run for first base. Instead Davis told the ump it had hit the ground (I assume the ump didn't catch this) and he was given another pitch to hit.
I understand the "uncaught-third-strike rule." What I don't understand is why an uncaught third strike would result in a batter being given another pitch to hit rather than merely being tagged out by the catcher to finish the out.
a foul tip is when the ball hits the bat. With 2 strikes, a foul tip is just another foul ball, unless the catcher catches it clean.
NOT on a foul tip.......It's a foul ball and all applicable rules regarding foul balls apply.......
A schwing and a miss on a third strike is an out even if it's in the dirt just as long as the catcher catches it.........but it's apparent in this case that the schwing was a foul tip.
Um . . . I know all this. But the catcher didn't clean catch it and instead of tagging the batter or the batter running for first the umpire gave him another pitch to hit.
Maybe it really was a foul tip.
If it touches the ground on a third strike regardless if it did so just a tinsey winsey wittle bit it still is a foul ball.
I do miss Skip, Pete, and Ernie. They were like family.
I don’t remember hearing Milo, but, I remember him being a Braves announcer.
My favorite baseball story was told by Ernie Johnston.
He was pitching in a world series game to Mickey Mantle and threw his best pitch. Mantle hit a foul tip and Ernie swore that he smelled smoke! I believe him. Ernie wasn’t a bad pitcher at all.
Or straight back to the old French games of la soule, thèque, la balle au bâton, and la balle empoisonnée. Maybe you will find the real thing there.
Rukle 1-the umpire is always right
Rule 2-if you think the umpire is wrong, see rule 1.