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Dodgers turn first 2-5-6-3 triple play in history but Padres cry foul over umpire’s actions
yahoo sports ^ | 4-15-12 | Kevin Kaduk

Posted on 04/16/2012 8:54:25 AM PDT by rawhide

Before Sunday, it had been 130 years since anyone turned a similar type of bizarre triple play that the Los Angeles Dodgers turned against the San Diego Padres in the ninth inning of a 5-4 win.

But with the logistics involved and the help from the home plate umpire that the Dodgers received, it'll probably take another 130 years for anyone to do it again.

For those keeping score at home, that's a 2-5-6-3 triple play that went around all four bases, the first 2-5-6-3 triple play that featured a putout at third, second and first.

http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player/feat/MLB_Highlights/28961982

(Excerpt) Read more at sports.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Sports
KEYWORDS: play; triple
Strange play! Was it the right call? Hmmmmm?
1 posted on 04/16/2012 8:54:34 AM PDT by rawhide
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To: rawhide

the ball was struck by the bat, landed in foul territory, and then, untouched by any player, proceeded to roll fair.

by rule, that is a fair ball. the triple play was legitimate.


2 posted on 04/16/2012 8:58:31 AM PDT by JohnBrowdie (http://forum.stink-eye.net)
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To: rawhide

Looked like a good play to me. Confusion over the ump hand gestures, but it hit the bat like a bunt. Went fair.


3 posted on 04/16/2012 8:59:20 AM PDT by commonguymd (Freedom is a myth anymore it seems)
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To: JohnBrowdie

That’s my take as well.


4 posted on 04/16/2012 9:05:00 AM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: rawhide

this is why you ALWAYS run out a foul ball.


5 posted on 04/16/2012 9:10:53 AM PDT by HenryArmitage (it was not meant that we should voyage far.)
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To: rawhide

What does 2-5-6-3 represent??


6 posted on 04/16/2012 9:10:59 AM PDT by eastforker (Don't be ornery for Romney, instead Root for Newt!)
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To: onedoug

ping


7 posted on 04/16/2012 9:13:38 AM PDT by stylecouncilor (Some minds are like soup in a poor restaurant...better left unstirred.-PG Wodehouse)
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To: eastforker

when keeping box scores a 2-5-6-3 lets someone that is reading it know what happend in the play. each number represents a defensive position. 2 = catcher, 5= third, 6 = short stop, 3 = first baseman. so if you know there was three outs made this play and the order of people involved in the play.. you can picture how it went down without watching video/radio.


8 posted on 04/16/2012 9:14:10 AM PDT by HenryArmitage (it was not meant that we should voyage far.)
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To: commonguymd

Agree, but the home plate ump definitely gave the base runners the wrong hand signals, causing them all to think it was a foul ball. Therefore they did not run, thus the triple play.

I wonder what the rules say in situations like this?


9 posted on 04/16/2012 9:15:19 AM PDT by rawhide
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To: HenryArmitage

Thanks, I understand now.


10 posted on 04/16/2012 9:15:50 AM PDT by eastforker (Don't be ornery for Romney, instead Root for Newt!)
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To: commonguymd

-—Confusion over the ump hand gestures, but it hit the bat like a bunt. Went fair.-—

Cool. I guess they can complain about the ump’s signals, but if in doubt, play to the whistle. There’s no excuse for the batter not running it out.


11 posted on 04/16/2012 9:15:50 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: eastforker

Scoring, in baseball, is done using numbers to represent the defensive posistions. I don’t know the sequence off the top of my head. I think the catcher is 2 and then threw to the third basemen, who was 5, etc.


12 posted on 04/16/2012 9:15:50 AM PDT by justice14 ("stand up defend or lay down and die")
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To: eastforker

2-5-6-3

Catcher-third base-shortstop (covering second)-first base.


13 posted on 04/16/2012 9:16:06 AM PDT by OrangeHoof (Obama: The Dr. Kevorkian of the American economy.)
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To: eastforker

Catcher to third baseman to shortstop to first baseman.


14 posted on 04/16/2012 9:16:15 AM PDT by GISax (Still waiting for the Iron Chef electric eel battle...)
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To: JohnBrowdie
Correct and right call by the ump. If a ball rolls into fair territory before it crosses the corner base, it is still fair. Likewise, if it rolls into foul territory after it crosses the corner base in fair territory, it is still a fair ball.

The Dodger catcher made a real heads up play by going for the ball while it was still moving in fair territory. Had he allowed it to roll foul again, there would have been no play. What I found really amazing is that the Seattle players and the batter all froze after the ump made the fair ball call.

They would probably have been out anyway, but back in the 60's or 70's, the player would have been fined by the team for at least not trying to advance.

15 posted on 04/16/2012 9:17:48 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: commonguymd

I saw what you saw. Probably should have run it out, just to be sure.


16 posted on 04/16/2012 9:21:34 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Queeg Olbermann: Ahh, but the strawberries that's... that's where I had them.)
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To: Vigilanteman

The Padres weren’t very mobile either :)


17 posted on 04/16/2012 9:21:34 AM PDT by Churchillspirit
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To: Vigilanteman

I was watching the game, and you are bang on about the catcher making a heads up play.

it appeared as though he started to pick it up in foul territory, but saw the potential for a multi-out play and let it roll.

for whatever reason, he waited for it to go fair before he pounced on it, and directed the infielders to throw the ball back across all three bases.


18 posted on 04/16/2012 9:25:12 AM PDT by JohnBrowdie (http://forum.stink-eye.net)
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To: Vigilanteman
Correct and right call by the ump.
From your perspective. But the ump put both his hands in the air which means foul ball and that's what all the runners saw.
Also, we don't know what, if anything, the ump called verbally. Did he yell "foul" as he put his hands up?
19 posted on 04/16/2012 9:26:12 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: JohnBrowdie

If the ball were ever “foul” on the play, it cannot become “fair”, or “un-foul” by being untouched by a player, etc.

I recognize that an untouched “fair” ball CAN become “foul” by rule, but you would need to explain to me how the reciprocal was true.

The call had to have been “fair ball” from the beginning for this play to be within the rule.


20 posted on 04/16/2012 9:29:48 AM PDT by Coffee... Black... No Sugar (I'm gonna' BICKER!)
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To: rawhide

Certainly a strange looking play. I think the fact that the batter bailed out would have made the runners think it either hit the batter or was a foul ball.

Reminds me of Game 4 of the 1980 NLCS when pitcher Vern Ruhle trapped a short bloop and the Phillies didn’t know whether to run or not so they moved halfway off the bases. Ruhle, of the Astros, threw to first to double off that runner and, after a small delay, the first baseman threw down to second to double off that runner for a triple play while the Phillies were beginning to argue with the umpires.

The NL president was in attendance and he decided that two of the Phillies were out but the runner on second could stay. Here’s the audio of that moment:

http://www.astrosdaily.com/audio/80gm4a.mp3


21 posted on 04/16/2012 9:32:37 AM PDT by OrangeHoof (Obama: The Dr. Kevorkian of the American economy.)
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To: Coffee... Black... No Sugar

If a foul ball is untouched by a fielder or object and then rolls fair before it passes first or third base and the fielder touches the ball in fair territory, it is a fair ball. I’ve seen it happen before.

The fair-foul scenario is more common because it is usually in the fielder’s best interest to touch the ball when it is foul and thus no play because runners are advancing. In this case, however, the fielder’s advantage was a fair ball because the force was in order and nobody was running.


22 posted on 04/16/2012 9:36:52 AM PDT by OrangeHoof (Obama: The Dr. Kevorkian of the American economy.)
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To: eastforker

2 (catcher) to 5 (third baseman) to 6 (shortstop covering second) to 3 (first baseman)

23 posted on 04/16/2012 9:44:29 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Queeg Olbermann: Ahh, but the strawberries that's... that's where I had them.)
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To: rawhide

The ump that was right there stuck BOTH his hands up in the air, then actually raised BOTH of them higher. Harold Reynolds on MLB network had them freeze it. Unless he was fending off a bee, I would have thought dead ball. It was an umpire assist, which is bound to happen sometimes I guess. I think even Vin Scully said it was a no play signal from the ump.

Freegards


24 posted on 04/16/2012 9:46:44 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: oh8eleven

You reminded me of the ump who called a runner stealing second “safe” while at the same time giving the ‘out’ sign. The runner complained, “but, but, you called me safe.” “Son, you heard me call you safe but 50,000 people saw me punch you out....you are out.”


25 posted on 04/16/2012 9:49:16 AM PDT by JPG (Hold on tight; rough road ahead.)
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To: Coffee... Black... No Sugar

I never said any of that. and I needn’t explain anything to you. either you get it, or you don’t.

either way, it’s just not my problem.


26 posted on 04/16/2012 9:54:47 AM PDT by JohnBrowdie (http://forum.stink-eye.net)
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To: Coffee... Black... No Sugar
In addition, once a ball has been called foul by an ump, that is it. This ump called it foul. The ump is supposed to wait to make that foul call. the call he made is one you make when the ball is fouled off someone's foot and then rolls fair. If the ump makes an incorrect call, it is like an inadvertent whistle in football, the play is dead and you go by the ump's call. Can you imagine if you had an ump calling foul on a ball off a player's foot, and the runners advanced to the next base every time anyway, just to be safe? The umps would go ape over the delay that caused.

A foul call means foul. If the ump was wrong, nothing you can do about it. The runners have to be able to rely on the ump. Here, what seems to have happened is that the ump realized it wasn't foul and then wanted to pretend that he hadn't called it foul because then he looks like he made a mistake. But instead, he made a bigger one, by giving a team a triple play.

27 posted on 04/16/2012 10:13:00 AM PDT by Defiant (If there are infinite parallel universes, why Lord, am I living in the one with Obama as President?)
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To: stylecouncilor

I saw it. It was great. The Padres were caught dumbfounded.


28 posted on 04/16/2012 10:17:20 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: Defiant
To add clarity to what I said, when it is not yet clear what will happen to the ball, the ump is to make no call, fair or foul, but to wait and only call "foul" when it could not possible be fair, for example if it is picked up in foul territory by a fielder. Once they make that call, that is it. Same with a fly ball down the line, if the ump yells "foul" on a ball down the right field line that goes into the corner, you don't have to run it out on the possibility that another ump with a better view will overturn the call. It is foul, even if it was actually fair. The play is over at that point.

There are plays that can be overturned if another ump had priority on the call, or the ump with priority asks for help. An "out" call can be made safe, a checked swing can be called a swing, etc. But a foul call is not one of those calls that can be changed. Either he made the call or he didn't. If he made the call, the play is over.

29 posted on 04/16/2012 10:21:24 AM PDT by Defiant (If there are infinite parallel universes, why Lord, am I living in the one with Obama as President?)
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To: Defiant

But that the umps had a conference after the play and all decided to let it stand.


30 posted on 04/16/2012 10:23:35 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: windcliff

This was it. You’ve got to see it.


31 posted on 04/16/2012 10:25:48 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: onedoug
The ump who made the call was the home plate ump. He is the boss for the game. (They alternate every day). I have no idea what he said to the others. It looked like he called foul, then pointed and said "it's in play. Oops. Play it." Meanwhile, the runners were pointing at him, noting that he had called it foul. He didn't need to say anything, the hand gesture says "foul" and "stop play". At that point, the ball is dead until it is placed back in play, when the ump points at the pitcher on the mound and says "play".

The other umps could not overrule his call, but they may have had a discussion about it, and decided it was better to pretend that he didn't call it foul than to take back a triple play. Or he may have claimed he didn't call it foul, and the others could not do anything about it. There is a very strong ethic to stick together, even if one of you has made a mistake. They know they all make mistakes sometimes, and if you obsess over ever missed strike or out, you will not make it. Make the call and move on. Just try not to make too many bad ones, and keep it consistent. Make enough bad ones, and they will get rid of you eventually.

32 posted on 04/16/2012 10:57:55 AM PDT by Defiant (If there are infinite parallel universes, why Lord, am I living in the one with Obama as President?)
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To: rawhide

Because I’m cubicle bound I cannot see the video. The strangest part of this is the SS covering 2nd base and receiving a throw from the 3rd baseman. I guess the “bunt” must have been towards 1st base to draw the SS to 2nd base with the 2nd baseman covering 1st?

Highly unusual.


33 posted on 04/16/2012 11:52:55 AM PDT by copaliscrossing (Progressives are Socialists)
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To: Defiant

Or too, as Vinney suggested, to see if anyone had a different view of it.

But, as you say, Blue at the plate ultimately makes the call. And incidently, Padres manager Bud Black was ejected for arguing his counter-perspective too strongly.


34 posted on 04/16/2012 12:16:20 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: JPG
You reminded me of the ump who called a runner stealing second “safe” while at the same time giving the ‘out’ sign.
How about the ump last year (Matt Joyce?) who called a runner safe when he was CLEARLY out and robbed the pitcher of a perfect game.
35 posted on 04/16/2012 12:43:39 PM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: oh8eleven
Yes, audio would be an issue. If the ump did, indeed, yell "foul" then there are grounds for appeal. However, the body language of the runners makes me believe that they just assumed the call based on the capitulation body language of the batter.

Still, you've got to give the Dodger catcher credit for recognizing the rare opportunity which the play afforded and milking it for all it was worth.

36 posted on 04/16/2012 12:50:58 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: HenryArmitage
this is why you ALWAYS run out a foul ball.

Apparently, there are two exceptions to that rule:

  1. If you are at the beginning level and your coach hasn't taught you to do it yet.
  2. If you've already made it to the top as a MLB player and such fundamentals are beneath your dignity.

37 posted on 04/16/2012 12:57:11 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Defiant
I suggest everyone has misinterpreted the umpire's hands-up gesture. The replay shows he appeared surprised by the pitch's location--essentially at the batter's throat--and both backed up and threw his hands up defensively. It was purely reactive and was not a call at all, even though the runners assumed it was because his hands were coincidentally in the "foul ball" or "time is out" position. After a second or two at the most, he noticed the ball's location in fair territory and pointed "Fair ball!" emphatically.

The runners should have run instantly when they saw the ball not in the air but on the ground and should have ignored the home plate umpire. There are base umpires who will tell them to stop and return to their original base on a foul ball. That those umpires did not do so is all we need to know: all four umpires agreed it was a fair ball.

38 posted on 04/16/2012 3:01:45 PM PDT by Hebrews 11:6 (Do you REALLY believe that (1) God IS, and (2) God IS GOOD?)
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To: Hebrews 11:6

At what age were you when you stopped playing in Little League?


39 posted on 04/16/2012 8:50:42 PM PDT by Defiant (If there are infinite parallel universes, why Lord, am I living in the one with Obama as President?)
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