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Breaking the Two Party System

Posted on 04/16/2012 11:42:06 AM PDT by Some Lib on the Wrong Forums

Hello freepers, I'm a registered Democrat, but I'd really rather not be. I would much rather sign myself onto some progressive party as I feel they would better represent me, my views and my country. However, if I were to do so in the current political environment I would be throwing my vote away and by not voting for the Democrat I'm helping the Republican candidate inch closer to a plurality. Similarly, I'm sure plenty of you guys would much rather have a strong Libertarian Party or some sort of Evangelical Party instead of being lumped in with the rest of the Republican Party. How do we remedy this problem? Well, that's the tricky part. In close elections if either of us put up an Independent candidate who supported reform, but otherwise held the same views as the candidate we'd normally vote for then we'd end up splitting the vote and guaranteeing that the guy we don't like wins the seat.

That leaves elections that are never close. The ones in the rural Midwest and South that will invariably go to the GOP and the ones in New England and the Northwest that will invariably go to the Dems. These are the incumbents that never have to worry about losing their seat in the general, they just have to win their primary. I honestly believe that by putting up an Independent in these races we can win enough seats to achieve reform. I don't want reform to favor one ideology or another, I don't want it to lessen the voices of conservatives or liberals and I certainly don't want to open up any possibilities of fraud. I just want the Senate and House of Representatives to actually REPRESENT the views Americans have. After that's done we can go back to disagreeing with eachother at every turn, but I believe in my heart that this is far too important of an issue to go unresolved just because I'm a liberal and you guys are conservatives.

Up to this point I haven't actually laid out any solutions, so I'll just list what I'd like to see in any reform.

-End Gerrymandering

-Replace First Past the Post with some sort of preferential system

That's it. That's the only groundwork I'd like in there. Those two simple steps are where I think we'll find common ground


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Society
KEYWORDS: herekittykitty; meow; vikingkitties; zot
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To: Some Lib on the Wrong Forums

You are the party of slavery. Then and now.


51 posted on 04/16/2012 12:30:27 PM PDT by Mark (Don't argue with my posts. I typed while under sniper fire..)
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To: Some Lib on the Wrong Forums
Hi there!

The problem is that there are two types of people: Those that want to take from others, and those that don't want to be robbed, even under the color of law. Until we resolve that stealing from one person and giving it to another just because they need it is immoral and/or illegal, then the two sides will remain in opposition. There is no compromise on this position.

Also, you want this to happen so that your progressive wing would have a better chance to run the country. Thank you, but no, we have already had enough.

Bye!

52 posted on 04/16/2012 12:33:28 PM PDT by kosciusko51 (Enough of "Who is John Galt?" Who is Patrick Henry?)
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To: Some Lib on the Wrong Forums

You still kickin’ son! Say sumpin’ I say, say sumpin boy! What’s it all about boy, elucidate! That’s a joke, I say that’s a joke son. If you gonna play mum, I say go away boy, you bother me you creepin’ me out. I made a funny son and you’re not laughin.‘ Yer, I say, yer about as sharp as a bowling ball son. I keep pitchin’ ‘em and you keep missin’ ‘em. Yer as timid as a canary at a cat show. Nice mannered kid, just a little on the dumb side, about as sharp as a pound of wet liver, I say, as a sack of wet mice. I say, boy, pay attention when I’m talkin’ to ya, boy. Pay attention, boy, I’m cuttin’ but you ain’t bleedin’! Are you so dumb you think a Mexican border pays rent? Hmmm, bare, I say bare as a cooch dancers midriff. If you wants to sing the blues you gots to pay yer dues!
Ah gives, ah say, dang—ah gives up. We can’t bury you boy if you ain’t dead. But you just lyin’ there. Speak up, ah say, jus’ say sumpin’ you don’ have to scintillate us, can’t leave us hangin’ like this .....
Foghorn goes on for another several minutes pleading)


53 posted on 04/16/2012 12:40:47 PM PDT by tumblindice (Our new, happy lives.)
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To: chrisser

The US constitution limits what restrictions a state may place on its restrictions to qualify to vote. Thus, individual states could permit non citizens to vote.


54 posted on 04/16/2012 12:42:11 PM PDT by monocle
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To: GraceG

I agree!


55 posted on 04/16/2012 12:47:58 PM PDT by katwoman5779
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To: GraceG

I agree!


56 posted on 04/16/2012 12:48:13 PM PDT by katwoman5779
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To: Reeses; Some Lib on the Wrong Forums

I have a simpler solution:

1. Repeal the 17th amendment and let the States choose the senators the way they used to - that way the 30 or so red states will always outnumber the 20 or so blue states.

2. Never vote for an incumbent.


57 posted on 04/16/2012 12:48:43 PM PDT by Larry - Moe and Curly (Loose lips sink ships.)
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To: Some Lib on the Wrong Forums

“However, if I were to do so in the current political environment I would be throwing my vote away and by not voting for the Democrat I’m helping the Republican candidate inch closer to a plurality”

The difference between cancelling out one Republican vote and “throwing away” your vote on somone who has no chance to win is only one vote. Since no important election I’m aware of has ever been decided by a single vote, who cares? Go ahead and throw your vote away. Everything you’ve heard your whole life about how it’s your duty to vote and every vote counting is propaganda intended to influence masses of votes. You, as an individual, are neither here nor there. You don’t matter any more than, as I’ve said, to cancel out one other person.


58 posted on 04/16/2012 1:18:22 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Some Lib on the Wrong Forums

IB4TZ. Made it!


59 posted on 04/16/2012 1:22:13 PM PDT by wjcsux ("In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell)
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To: Some Lib on the Wrong Forums

You are sofa king we todd did.


60 posted on 04/16/2012 1:36:05 PM PDT by Crim (Palin / West '12)
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To: Tzar
Maybe they could make every district a rectangle, with allowances for coastlines and other non rectangular features. I think each county should be a congressional district.

Those borders are set by the states themselves, are quite stable, and can't be moved for political advantage. They also have the benefit of being easy to find. And, if there is election fraud, the county sheriff, highest law enforcement official in the land (suck it, Holder) is there to investigate.

How to handle apportionment, though... Fractional representation, anyone?

61 posted on 04/16/2012 1:40:18 PM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: SaraJohnson

I don’t want you to agree with me. I don’t want you to join with me in my party. I want you and everyone else to have a party that you can agree with on nearly all issues instead of having 2 parties that you rarely agree with on anything. Mine would happen to be a progressive party, yours would be different. The Libertarian Party gets no support because people are afraid of throwing away votes to a minor party. I want our parties that actually represent us to then come together in the Capitol Building and debate the best course for our nation instead of the Us vs Them crap that goes on right now. If my party can’t come up with a coalition to pass an agenda, but yours can and I’m left in a country that has outlawed sodomy, stripped bargaining rights from unions and deregulated everything in sight then so be it. But at least I can rest easily knowing that Americans are being properly represented.

On every issue we’ll prolly disagree, but if those issues are being decided on by people who don’t actually represent us then how can we say that we have a functioning Republic? Wouldn’t you rather the Progressive Caucus fight for its cause on its own ‘merits’ rather than have it tag along with a group who will agree with you on certain issues (the Blue Dogs). As pinko commie scum I hate Blue Dogs who abandon Democratic party planks when it suits them, because I know when election time rolls around money that I hypothetically donate could have gone to a progressive candidate is instead going to the guy that voted against gays being allowed to adopt just so they can keep the seat out of Republican hands. Or, for conservatives, money that you hypothetically donate going to a Republican that broke ranks on a budget that raises taxes for the wealthy


62 posted on 04/16/2012 1:41:34 PM PDT by Some Lib on the Wrong Forums
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To: Some Lib on the Wrong Forums
Photobucket
63 posted on 04/16/2012 1:51:21 PM PDT by Squidpup ("Fight the Good Fight")
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To: Some Lib on the Wrong Forums

Take one look at a nighttime photo of N. Korea and S. Korea or read some history on E/W Germany, E/W Berlin and get back to us why “Progressive (aka socialist/communist)” is a good thing.

People have died trying to get away from socialist/communists/Marxists yet somehow the mental defect of liberalism prevents one from seeing and understanding historical proof. Notice, millions are not trying to get to N. Korea nor were people attempting in droves to get into E. Berlin or E. Germany and Mexico. Why because progressive/socialist/communist/Marxist government ALWAYS FAIL

You may be able to find the occasional fault with the free market system however, history proves time and time again it is vastly superior to the central planning big government systems.


64 posted on 04/16/2012 1:58:03 PM PDT by Wurlitzer (Welcome to the new USSA (United Socialist States of Amerika))
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To: Some Lib on the Wrong Forums
I don’t want you to agree with me. I don’t want you to join with me in my party. I want you and everyone else to have a party that you can agree with on nearly all issues instead of having 2 parties that you rarely agree with on anything.
 
So how many parties do you wish we had in America? 10? 15?
 
And how'd a multi-party system work out before in American History? Shoot, go and and look at other countries with a political party for every niche. What ends up happening there?
 
I do see where you are going with this train(wreck) of thought. It won't work of course, but thanks for stopping by.
 
(still IBTZ)

65 posted on 04/16/2012 2:00:59 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: berdie

later


66 posted on 04/16/2012 2:48:49 PM PDT by berdie
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To: Thunder90

What a beautiful gardening collage!


67 posted on 04/16/2012 3:01:37 PM PDT by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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To: Responsibility2nd
So how many parties do you wish we had in America? 10? 15? As many as the people split themselves into. Shouldn't the same mechanisms behind the free market decide how many parties there are? I personally doubt more than 5 parties would receive >10% of the vote. I just want the option to be there. And how'd a multi-party system work out before in American History? Shoot, go and and look at other countries with a political party for every niche. What ends up happening there? In American history we've never had the opportunity for multi-party politics. Two parties dominate and sometimes one would fall only to be replaced by one other party (and the last time this happened we had to burn down half the country to keep it together). Every once in a blue moon a single issue party comes up and then falls apart as either the Democrats or the Republicans absorb that issue as a watered down party plank. As it stands right now you and I don't have to work together to come to solutions. We just have to have 1 more guy on our side to muscle through our respective agendas and when neither of us are completely in charge absolutely nothing gets done because we only know how to work against each other, never together for the benefit of America
68 posted on 04/16/2012 3:26:23 PM PDT by Some Lib on the Wrong Forums
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To: Some Lib on the Wrong Forums; Admin Moderator; Jim Robinson

Have you seen this?


69 posted on 04/16/2012 7:59:55 PM PDT by Celtic Cross (The brain is the weapon; everything else is just accessories. --FReeper Joe Brower)
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To: Some Lib on the Wrong Forums

” - - - The second part of your plan/solution “- - - -Replace First Past the Post with some sort of preferential system - - - “ is not at all specific enough to be, (in the infamous words of a former foreign student at Harvard, and now Illegal White House Occupier, Barack “You Lie” Obama), TRANSPARENT.

Please clarify, si vous plait. - - - “

While I am waiting for clarification from you, I notice that you advocate smaller groups in more political parties.

Fortunately, we live in a Republic, and thus we are NOT a Democracy that is plagued with this type of problems.

Currently, we have a Marxist Dictator, (at least in his (Obama’s) own mind), who is doing his best to accomplish just what you are advocating in terms of groups of people nucleating around a single idea. It is called “Divide and Conquer.”

If there is more than one major idea, then your system breaks down as one person might need to belong to two different groups and vote on each idea from the respective group.

The best example of this is post WW2 Italy, which had over 100 changes of government in a very short time.

BTW, yours is a generation far removed in thought from what we at FR see as REALITY.

Stick around, post and think.

Later on you will think, post, learn and really think.

FR is the active backbone of American Thought, but it will take time and effort on your part to recognize that fact.


70 posted on 04/16/2012 9:55:36 PM PDT by Graewoulf ((Dictator Baby-Doc Barack's obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND U.S. Constitution.))
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To: Some Lib on the Wrong Forums
Hitler Finds Out He's Been Banned From FR
71 posted on 04/19/2012 7:44:14 PM PDT by Only Sane Man
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To: Some Lib on the Wrong Forums

“Those two simple steps are where I think we’ll find common ground”

Here’s my solution and it only requires one step:

Progressives are deported to North Korea.

Thanks for playing. Go away.


72 posted on 07/20/2013 11:09:46 AM PDT by Absolutely Nobama (The Doomsday Clock is at 11:59:00......tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock.....)
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