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Obama Lawyer claims birth certificate is fake
Everybody...

Posted on 04/17/2012 8:34:06 AM PDT by varmintman

All over the internet this morning, this is a link to a google search on 'obama lawyer birth certificate'.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: birthcertificate; naturalborncitizen; obama; usborisgodunov; vanity
I don't see this anywhere on FR as of now, mods should remove this post if I've simply missed it somehow.
1 posted on 04/17/2012 8:34:19 AM PDT by varmintman
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To: varmintman
She is legal counsel representing Obama’s re-election campaign, and argued then that New Jersey law does not require Obama to present a valid birth certificate to establish his qualifications under Article 2, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution to be on the New Jersey Democratic Party primary ballot.

From what I can see, the lawyer doesn't say anything about the veracity of the birth certificate, only that it's not required in New Jersey, so it's irrelevant to the issue. Am I reading that wrong?

2 posted on 04/17/2012 8:43:53 AM PDT by Kenton
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To: varmintman

I don’t believe the lawyer admitted the BC was a fake.

The argument was a HYPOTHETICAL — “assuming the BC was a fake, Obama is still a natural born citizen because .....”

It’s not an admission the BC is fake, it’s just an argument that the Court doesn’t have to figure out, one way or the other, if the BC is fake.


3 posted on 04/17/2012 8:45:22 AM PDT by TheThirdRuffian (I will never vote for Romney. Ever.)
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To: Kenton

” only that it’s not required in New Jersey, so it’s irrelevant to the issue. Am I reading that wrong?”

No, you are reading it correctly.


4 posted on 04/17/2012 8:46:15 AM PDT by TheThirdRuffian (I will never vote for Romney. Ever.)
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To: varmintman

I cannot find where the headline matches the statements in the story. When I look at the Google search, I see the most credible link is WND and that sure doesn’t say much.


5 posted on 04/17/2012 8:49:19 AM PDT by Proud2BeRight
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To: Kenton
Seems to be a bit more to it than that...

Obama’s attorney Alexandra Hill admitted that there is no evidence that the birth certificate the White House put online is authentic and that it likely was “manufactured.”

6 posted on 04/17/2012 8:52:03 AM PDT by varmintman
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To: varmintman
She is legal counsel representing Obama’s re-election campaign, and argued then that New Jersey law does not require Obama to present a valid birth certificate to establish his qualifications under Article 2, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution to be on the New Jersey Democratic Party primary ballot.

Although this shouldn't be the case the simple 9and disgraceful) fact is that Osama Obama's name will not be absent from a *single* state's ballot this November and he won't be removed from office because of this.Not in 2012...2013...2016...or 2017.

7 posted on 04/17/2012 8:52:41 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Unlike Mrs Obama,I've Been Proud Of This Country My *Entire* Life!)
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To: varmintman
According to TeaPartyTribune.com, attorney Alexandra Hill, of the Newark-based law firm Genova, Burn and Giantomasi, admitted that the image of Obama’s birth certificate was a forgery and made the absurd claim that, therefore, it cannot be used as evidence to confirm his lack of natural born citizenship status. She concluded her analysis of the online birth certificate arguing that it is “irrelevant to his placement on the ballot”.
 
more....
 
 
 
 

Look. I'm a proud birther. But I've come to accept that Barry Soetero himself could claim he forged the BC. He could admit to being born in Kenya, he could admit that he is NOT eligible to serve as POTUS, but so what?
 
He could say all this and more. And give the USA the finger and say: "What are ya gonna do about it"?
 
And the MSM, the SCOTUS and the leftists would all say; "NOTHING!! We love you Barack. We knew all this all along, and we didn't care then. And we don't care now."


8 posted on 04/17/2012 8:52:47 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: varmintman
She is legal counsel representing Obama’s re-election campaign, and argued then that New Jersey law does not require Obama to present a valid birth certificate to establish his qualifications under Article 2, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution to be on the New Jersey Democratic Party primary ballot.

Although this shouldn't be the case the simple (and disgraceful) fact is that Osama Obama's name will not be absent from a *single* state's ballot this November and he won't be removed from office because of this.Not in 2012...2013...2016...or 2017.

9 posted on 04/17/2012 8:52:54 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Unlike Mrs Obama,I've Been Proud Of This Country My *Entire* Life!)
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To: Responsibility2nd
Look. I'm a proud birther. But I've come to accept that Barry Soetero himself could claim he forged the BC. He could admit to being born in Kenya, he could admit that he is NOT eligible to serve as POTUS, but so what? He could say all this and more. And give the USA the finger and say: "What are ya gonna do about it"?

Exactly what *I've* been saying for a long time.Not even the SCOTUS would touch such a case with a ten foot pole.

10 posted on 04/17/2012 8:55:45 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Unlike Mrs Obama,I've Been Proud Of This Country My *Entire* Life!)
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To: varmintman
Might not be the case, see comments here
11 posted on 04/17/2012 8:56:09 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: varmintman

LOL, this nonsense again.

This is just more exaggerated conspiracy blather.


12 posted on 04/17/2012 8:57:25 AM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: varmintman
I don't see this anywhere on FR

There is a good reason. Its crap.

13 posted on 04/17/2012 8:58:03 AM PDT by Raycpa
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To: varmintman

What an absolute, total and completely misleading headline for this article. She is just arguing her position that it isn’t required (said the lawyer).

Wow. Just wow.


14 posted on 04/17/2012 9:03:41 AM PDT by RIghtwardHo
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To: RIghtwardHo

IF that is the case, which I doubt, then a whole lot of people read the thing the wrong way.


15 posted on 04/17/2012 9:06:45 AM PDT by varmintman
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To: varmintman

Just more proof the fix is in.

According to lawyers, you don’t have to be qualified to be placed on a ballot.

Our legal standards are below whale poop. The law is whatever they want it to be on any given day.

No wonder they place political hacks on the USSC to assure we do NOT let the Constitution get in the way of the ruling elite.

When we see how much lawyers, politicians, judges twist the law how fricken stupid must we be to keep electing more lawyers to be politicians and judges?

I vow to NEVER vote for any lawyer. How many are willing to do at least this little bit to help?


16 posted on 04/17/2012 9:11:14 AM PDT by Wurlitzer (Welcome to the new USSA (United Socialist States of Amerika))
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To: varmintman

The headline is idiocy. Lawyer said no such thing.

Read the story:

(Obama lawyer) Hill repeatedly explained to Judge Jeff S. Masin that, “We do not believe the president’s birth certificate is relevant to this case.”

Agreeing with Hill, Masin ruled in a written opinion the same day that New Jersey law does not require Obama to produce any proof he is eligible to be president in order to be placed on the primary ballot.

Noting that New Jersey law allows a nominating petition endorsing a particular person for president to be filed without the consent of the person endorsed, Masin said “There is no obligation upon the person endorsed to prove his or her qualification for office.”

This is a totally correct legal ruling. A nomination, filing or election can be challenged AFTER THE FACT, but there is no U.S. constitutional legal requirement for “proof” to be filed before an election can be held.

This is an excellent provision. Can you imagine every Dem county JP in the country ruling Ronald Reagan had not submitted “sufficient” proof of qualification?

Lawyer never said there was no BC. Conservatives should check facts before they believe every stupid internet post.


17 posted on 04/17/2012 9:11:48 AM PDT by MindBender26 (New Army SF and Ranger Slogan: Vengeance is Mine, sayeth the Lord.... but He subcontracts!)
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To: Gay State Conservative

Yep. I knew the fix was in when Chief Justice John Roberts (A Bush appointee!) swore in Obama (twice).

That is just one of the many reasons why I gave up on the SCOTUS years ago. I don’t give a care who is prez. The courts (even the Supremes) will always be liberal. I don’t see them as ever being pro-conservative.

Maybe I’ll be proven wrong if they overturn even some parts of Obama Care. But I don’t even see THAT happening..


18 posted on 04/17/2012 9:14:02 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: varmintman
The leftist judges and socialist democrat frauds want to continue to play MAKE BELIEVE with obama’s eligibility fraud. BIRTH CERTIFICATE, SS CARD, DRAFT CARD all as phoney as a three dollar bill. We must take matters into our own hands and politically destroy this crowd come the November elections. Then go after the enablers. Much like the French underground went after the Nazi collaborators after the Nazi occupation of France
19 posted on 04/17/2012 9:17:33 AM PDT by spawn44
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To: varmintman

The article states “Adding insult upon injury, Hill went on to contort reasoning further by implying that Obama needs only invoke his political popularity, not legal qualifications, in order to be a candidate.” This is the exact arguement my over educated cousin uses: “He was elected by the people so that makes him eligible.”

It appears they’re admitting it was a fake in case criminal charges are ever filed. They can say “We never intended to mislean anyone. We simply mis-posted.”


20 posted on 04/17/2012 9:17:44 AM PDT by Terry Mross
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To: Longbow1969

“This is just more exaggerated conspiracy blather.”

Heil Hussein!

Because he CARES about EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US!

Anyone who doesn’t agree is just spewing “more exaggerated conspiracy blather”!

Remember to TRUST ABCCBSCNNNBCFOX/AP — for the same reason!


21 posted on 04/17/2012 9:21:25 AM PDT by treetopsandroofs (Had FDR been GOP, there would have been no World Wars, just "The Great War" and "Roosevelt's Wars".)
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To: varmintman; Kenton
Listen to the actual court hearing. She never comes out and says it is a forgery. Listen to the things the Judge says.

COURT HEARING ON BIRTH CERTIFICATE VIDEO

22 posted on 04/17/2012 9:36:30 AM PDT by Spunky
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To: varmintman

It’s a serious twisting of what you’ll read here:
http://puzo1.blogspot.com/

She stipulated that the internet image of the BC could not be used as evidence.


23 posted on 04/17/2012 9:38:05 AM PDT by Beach333
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To: varmintman

They stipulated that the Court was unable to rely upon the veracity of the electronic BC image, so that they wouldn’t have to withstand scrutiny of the image by an expert witness.


24 posted on 04/17/2012 9:46:00 AM PDT by Unknowing (Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.)
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To: treetopsandroofs
Anyone who doesn’t agree is just spewing “more exaggerated conspiracy blather”!

This story is a giant, steaming pile of dung. Obama's lawyer did not say the birth certificate is fake. The headline of this thread is absolute and complete nonsense. I expect to see trash like this on InfoWars, but am very disappointed this sort of thing shows up on a respectable website like FR. This is just exaggerated conspiracy mongering. Period.

25 posted on 04/17/2012 9:50:38 AM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: Unknowing

A birth certificate is a standard document for identifying citizenship and a place of birth. It’s why the state department requires them when one applies for a passport. It’s why Obama voted for a law in 2005 that requires real citizens to submit birth certificates when applying for drivers licenses and ID cards. Certified public records, such as a legal birth certificates, are considered to be self-authenticating under the Federal Rules of Evidence. If Obama is claiming to be Constitutionally eligible for office as a natural-born citizen ... as would be required to get on the New Jersey ballot, then a birth certificate should be a no-brainer document to provide in court in order to prove the claim. The fact that the lawyer went to great lengths to avoid having this alleged document scrutinized in court is indeed a tacit admission that is legally insufficient.


26 posted on 04/17/2012 9:54:17 AM PDT by edge919
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To: Responsibility2nd

forgery or not an image on the internet cannot be used as evidence.


27 posted on 04/17/2012 9:58:39 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: Unknowing

[[They stipulated that the Court was unable to rely upon the veracity of the electronic BC image, so that they wouldn’t have to withstand scrutiny of the image by an expert witness.]]

so if I’m understasnding you right- the court discussion whent somethign liek so?

Lawyer: Judge, since you the court can’t verify the authenticity of the electronic photo of the BC, then there’s no need to put hte evidence efore experts who might coudl teell it’s a fake, right?

Judge: Good point- Nope- there’ll be no expert scrutiny to see if the obama administration faked the BC

Does that abuot sum it up?

IF the BC was ligit, Why did the lawyer weasel her way around the law by arguing such assinine arguments? (which fortunately for her, the judge bought hook line and sinker for fear of losing his job apparently)


28 posted on 04/17/2012 10:09:38 AM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: MindBender26; varmintman

The article I read states :
President Obama’s birth certificate “was likely part of a contrived plot by counterfeiters to endow Obama with mere political support while simultaneously making the image intentionally appear absurd and, therefore, invalid as evidence toward proving Obama’s ineligibility in a court of law,” the Tea Party Tribune quoted Hill as saying.
It's hearsay until I see an actual court transcript. But if the quote is accurate, that sounds to me like an assumption of forgery.


29 posted on 04/17/2012 10:10:27 AM PDT by so_real ( "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.")
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To: Longbow1969

Your “more” in front of “exaggerated conspiracy blather” led me to believe that you were defending the Fraud’s birth certificate, rather than just calling our attention to the article’s erroneous title.


30 posted on 04/17/2012 10:17:04 AM PDT by treetopsandroofs (Had FDR been GOP, there would have been no World Wars, just "The Great War" and "Roosevelt's Wars".)
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To: so_real

BS. Some writer may quote her as saying it, but it’s bull. Obama and the DNC have very good lawyers on this, and there is absolutely no other record of her saying this.


31 posted on 04/17/2012 10:17:33 AM PDT by MindBender26 (New Army SF and Ranger Slogan: Vengeance is Mine, sayeth the Lord.... but He subcontracts!)
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To: Spunky
Listen to the actual court hearing. She never comes out and says it is a forgery. Listen to the things the Judge says.
_____________________________________________________
I listened to the tape and here is what I heard. The ALJ said the WH website BC had not been presented by Obama in support of him being placed on the N.J. ballot. The ALJ said it was pre-mature to hear evidence the Internet BC because it was not in evidence. Apparently, Hill offered no evidence to support Obama’s eligibility and she alleged he did not have to produce anything as a prerequisite to being placed on the N.J. ballot.
32 posted on 04/17/2012 10:17:43 AM PDT by iontheball
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To: so_real

It’s BS.

Some writer may quote her as saying it, but it’s bull. Obama and the DNC have very good lawyers on this, and there is absolutely no other record of her saying this.


33 posted on 04/17/2012 10:17:57 AM PDT by MindBender26 (New Army SF and Ranger Slogan: Vengeance is Mine, sayeth the Lord.... but He subcontracts!)
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To: edge919

[[The fact that the lawyer went to great lengths to avoid having this alleged document scrutinized in court is indeed a tacit admission that is legally insufficient.]]

I fully agree with you- however your last statement is an assumption, not a fact that would hold up in court I don’t beleive- I agree the lawyer wentto great lengths to avoid havign hte document scrutinized- and htere almost certainly was a definate reason why she did- however provign why is what the right would have to prove ion court to get a conviction- or whetever-

The Judge shoudl have demanded that hte defense GET the original birth cirtificate and present it to him imediately! instead, thsi judge was apaprently too afraid of losing their job and didn’t require the actual document in question be presented for expert scrutiny-

Antoher travfesty of justice because noone dares stand up against a media supported black man in office-


34 posted on 04/17/2012 10:19:35 AM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: Responsibility2nd
That's been my opinion the whole time. For some reason, people on this site are suffering from the dillusion that since they care about it...so will the mind-numbed, Jersey Shore addicted, MSM watching robots out there which make up the majority of the electorate.

AINT'T happening. So...my opinion has always been: Yes...he probably is ineligible...but given the above...and given I still only have 24 hours in the day and a MSM that will protect him...what is the most efficient use of time, energy and money?

And it certainly isn't the birther issue. The MSM has already sufficiently made that issue "a grassy knoll conspiracy"...regardless of the facts. Hats off to them...they did their work. But he's got a record and no amount of polishing that t*rd can turn it into gold...because people are living it.

At this point in the game, the birth certificate will NOT get him out before Jan 20th, 2013. All it will do is distract from his record...the recovery, Obamacare, executive orders, trashing the constitution...etc. And that is a gauranteed winner.

35 posted on 04/17/2012 10:23:32 AM PDT by NELSON111
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To: iontheball

And she is totally legally correct.


36 posted on 04/17/2012 10:25:08 AM PDT by MindBender26 (New Army SF and Ranger Slogan: Vengeance is Mine, sayeth the Lord.... but He subcontracts!)
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To: CottShop

By my lights, more like this:

Lawyer: “We want to call an expert witness to impeach the image of the birth certificate as forged.”

Opposing Counsel: “We object to the expert witness.”

Lawyer: “Okay, maybe we don’t need an expert witness to impeach the image, if you will stipulate that the Court cannot rely on the image as evidence.”

Opposing Counsel: “Yes, we will so stipulate, but we don’t need to show no steenking birth certificate anyway.”


37 posted on 04/17/2012 10:27:38 AM PDT by Unknowing (Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.)
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To: Responsibility2nd

You’re absolutely correct. Three plus years into his reign, and NO ONE has stood up in congress and even raised the question. Joe Smith R-SC called him a “liar”, which everyone knew to be true, and he was censured. Every court runs away from the issue as fast as they can. I don’t think there isn’t a clause in The Constitution that the 0bama regime hasn’t violated, and I’m beginning to wonder if Barry will go quietly if he is unsuccessful in stealing the election in November.


38 posted on 04/17/2012 10:43:13 AM PDT by The Sons of Liberty (Sworn to Defend The Constitution Against ALL Enemies, Foreign and Domestic. So Help Me GOD!)
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To: The Sons of Liberty

FWIW, the SC Rep that had the cojones to call ovomit a liar is named Joe Wilson.


39 posted on 04/17/2012 10:51:06 AM PDT by upchuck (Need is not an acceptable lifestyle choice; dependent is not a career. ~ Dr. Tim Nerenz)
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To: upchuck

YES! thanks - I knew he was an [above] average “Joe”.


40 posted on 04/17/2012 11:01:09 AM PDT by The Sons of Liberty (Sworn to Defend The Constitution Against ALL Enemies, Foreign and Domestic. So Help Me GOD!)
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To: so_real
The article I read states...

If you follow the link to the Tea Party Tribune article, you'll see that it doesn't quote Hill as saying those things. That statement is part of the TPT's intro to their story, so it's their (mis?)interpretation of something the lawyer said. Why your source chose to claim it's a quote, I don't know.

41 posted on 04/17/2012 11:19:11 AM PDT by Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
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To: varmintman

bflr


42 posted on 04/17/2012 12:48:37 PM PDT by freebird5850 (Just don't have a tagline today. This administration makes me quite sad.)
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To: CottShop

It strikes me that the point of this legal dance was to avoid having that document (fake b.c.) entered into evidence. It’s one thing to post it on the internet. It’s another to offer it as a legal document in a court proceeding. That opens up a whole can of worms. So - again - I really think it’s just about NOT GIVING IT TO A COURT OF LAW.

Read into that what you will, but I think that’s all it is. Just another sleazy tactic, delaying tactic by the Occupier-in-Chief


43 posted on 04/18/2012 2:54:11 AM PDT by AnnieAsheFieldsUSA (www.saltusa.com)
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To: AnnieAsheFieldsUSA

[[It strikes me that the point of this legal dance was to avoid having that document (fake b.c.) entered into evidence. ]]

Yup- that’s what I feel too

[[It’s one thing to post it on the internet. It’s another to offer it as a legal document in a court proceeding.]]

Why didn’t the judge demand that the actual document be presented? After all, the lawsuit is abotu whether the document is real or not- it would seem to me that the document should have been physically [present in order to determien it’s authenticity


44 posted on 04/18/2012 6:43:11 PM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: Spunky

Thanks for the link, it’s nice to have the actual proceedings. However, I’m way out in the country with basically dial-up so can you tell me if this quote from
http://puzo1.blogspot.com/ is accurate?
“I then offered that I would not need to have Mr. Wilcox testify, provided that Obama stipulated that the internet image of his birth certificate could not be used as evidence by either Judge Masin or the New Jersey Secretary of States and that he presented to the court or the Secretary of State no other evidence of his identity or place of birth. Judge Masin also asked Obama’s attorney whether she would so stipulate. She did so stipulate, agreeing that both the court and the Secretary of State cannot rely on the internet birth certificate as evidence of Obama’s place of birth and that Obama has produced no other evidence to the court regarding his place of birth. She also argued that Obama has no legal obligation to produce any such evidence to get on the primary ballot.”

Thanks so much for your help!


45 posted on 04/18/2012 7:50:13 PM PDT by Is2C (http://www.persecution.com)
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To: Is2C
"“I then offered that I would not need to have Mr. Wilcox testify, provided that Obama stipulated that the internet image of his birth certificate could not be used as evidence by either Judge Masin or the New Jersey Secretary of States and that he presented to the court or the Secretary of State no other evidence of his identity or place of birth. Judge Masin also asked Obama’s attorney whether she would so stipulate. She did so stipulate, agreeing that both the court and the Secretary of State cannot rely on the internet birth certificate as evidence of Obama’s place of birth and that Obama has produced no other evidence to the court regarding his place of birth. She also argued that Obama has no legal obligation to produce any such evidence to get on the primary ballot.”

If I recall that statement is pretty accurate, but it only came AFTER a long discussion the judge had with the lawyer who was wanting to prove it was a fake document. The judge said something to the effect, since it was only an ONLINE picture there was no way for him to make a determination if the ACTUAL hard copy BC was fake. He would have to have a hard copy in hand to make that determination. It was all agreed that an online picture was not real. It went something like that.

46 posted on 04/18/2012 9:38:00 PM PDT by Spunky
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