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Cold Fusion in Italian High School
ECat World ^ | April 23, 2012 | admin

Posted on 04/28/2012 9:44:57 PM PDT by Kevmo

Cold Fusion in Italian High School

April 23, 2012

A new and very interesting report is coming again out of Italy. The Repubblica Roma web site is reporting about a project carried out by teachers and students at the Leopoldo Pirelli industrial high school in Rome in which students have built cold fusion cells which according to one of the instructors involved have achieved excess heat levels of 400 per cent. A slide show of the devices can be seen here.

Following this report, one of the instructors involved with the project, Ugo Abundo, emailed Daniele Passerini of the 22passi blog and provided more information. Abundo said that the cells used ‘free nanopowders’ in the cathode which they have patented. Abundo says that in a few days video and technical details will be made available (presumably online). It also appears that Passerini will be working to help publicize the project.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: cmns; coldfusion; lanr; lenr; untalgiococredetemi
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To: Captain Steve
We will all know pretty soon whether this is a revolutionary breakthrough. I think it is.

Why? Because fusing nickel into copper is exothermic?

51 posted on 04/30/2012 4:13:04 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Moonman62
"All you have is appeals to (questionable) authority, personal attacks, and “Warthog says.” When it comes to putting up quality information, you have nothing."

LOL. What "quality information" have YOU ever provided on ANY of these threads?? None. I know you're a liar because I have followed up on enough CF papers to know that your claim "99% of CF is hype and scams" is a flat-out lie. I don't claim (as one of your other hot physics compadres did) to have read everything published on cold fusion (another obvious lie), but I've read enough to constitute a pretty good random sample, and I have yet to find ONE paper that smacks of "hype".

Your entire history of posting on CF threads has been one constant attack. Dealing with you is like dealing with what sticks to the bottom of ones shoes after a walk in an "off-leash" dog park, annoying, smelly, and difficult to remove.

52 posted on 04/30/2012 4:16:16 PM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: exDemMom
Reading through that mess, I saw no mention of the identities of any of the chemicals involved. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ No offense intended, but you obviously haven't investigated this "new science" since you don't even know that very basic aspect. All the cold fusion/LENR/E-Cat systems are starting with powdered Nickel and Hydrogen and reporting some transmutation into Copper. Until you know more about it, you might want to consider refraining from saying what it is or is not. You obviously know a good bit about physics, so I think you'll find it worthwhile. ;)) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The reaction 58Ni + p → 59Cu is a little unlikely; the Coulomb forces required to shove that proton into the nucleus are so high that, as I saw one physicist explain it, that much energy does not exist in the entire universe. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Of course it violates the *known* properties of the Coulomb barrier. There are some other explanations as well, such as "widom-larsen." . Since no one knows yet, I can't tell you which it is, but as far as your physicist's "energy in the known universe" comment, someone should tell that to all the hot fusion scientists out there, because they could save a lot of money by NOT building billion dollar tokamaks. lol . . . . It happens in every star, so it clearly can happen. The question is, "at what minimum energy level." I'll say it's something like the discovery of super-conducting, it takes time to figure out what's happening, and then more time to put it to use. Pons/Fleishmann got the ball rolling. . Here's a few sites to look at if you want to learn more. This first link will take you to a video with Professor Brian Josephson , Nobel Prize winning and professor of physics at Cambridge University. That should get anybody's curiosity up. Imo, this is the real deal and will turn out to be as important as the use and development of fire, oil, or fission. . . . http://coldfusion3.com/blog/cold-fusion-and-universities-the-time-has-come/ . . . . This site has pretty good reporting on all things cold fusion. . . . http://www.e-catworld.com/ this guy has a grudge with Rossi, but some good stuff. . . . http://blog.newenergytimes.com/ . . . . And here's a link about a meeting at CERN. http://energycatalyzer3.com/news/cern-planning-lenr- colloquium-and-webcast/ All the best.
53 posted on 04/30/2012 4:33:50 PM PDT by Captain Steve
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To: Toddsterpatriot

We will all know pretty soon whether this is a revolutionary breakthrough. I think it is.
Why? Because fusing nickel into copper is exothermic?++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yes! That’s exactly why. It’s nearly free energy. It has the benefits of existing nuclear energy systems with none of the negatives. Cold fusion requires no radioactive fuel or byproducts, no storage problems, no containment, and uses cheap fuel.

I know it sounds crazy, but if CF/LENR/E-Cat works (and I’m thinking it will), it will pretty much solve the world’s energy problem. It’s THAT big. ;))


54 posted on 04/30/2012 4:45:20 PM PDT by Captain Steve
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To: Kevmo

Skeptics abound that don’t know much about Cold Fusion. They should watch this video or Professor Brian Josephson , Nobel Prize winning and professor of physics at Cambridge University.

http://coldfusion3.com/blog/cold-fusion-and-universities-the-time-has-come


55 posted on 04/30/2012 4:50:43 PM PDT by Captain Steve
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To: Captain Steve
Nearly free?
56 posted on 04/30/2012 4:59:58 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Toddsterpatriot
The simplified reaction is Ni58 + p → Cu59 I thought nickel was on the wrong side of the curve of binding energy. When did that change? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Yes. It does violate known properties of nuclear physics. That's partly why Pons and Fleishmann were "laughed off the stage" in 1989. Plus, the big money is in hot fusion. That doesn't make it a fraud, hoax, or wrong. I equate it to where super-conduction was last century. It went from poorly understood novelty to useful and established property of materials.
57 posted on 04/30/2012 5:00:39 PM PDT by Captain Steve
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To: Captain Steve
That's partly why Pons and Fleishmann were "laughed off the stage" in 1989.

They were fusing D, which is exothermic.

Try again?

58 posted on 04/30/2012 5:09:43 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Toddsterpatriot

I’m very familiar with that graph. I mean “Free energy” as in very cheap to produce. ;))

This is a totally new “science.” I don’t claim to fully know what’s going on. No one does! What “we” do know is that different combinations of Hydrogen and Nickel are yielding large amounts of energy, transmutation into Copper, and disputed amounts of Beta decay.


59 posted on 04/30/2012 5:13:21 PM PDT by Captain Steve
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To: Wonder Warthog
If it weren't for the constant cold fusion spam you and Kevmo place on FR, I'd have little to say about it. However, the accepted status of cold fusion is that it is a scam and not a recognized science. That's why the USPTO doesn't accept cold fusion patent applications. You've done nothing to change that. Your claims of winning awards, professional accomplishments, and other forms of self puffery do nothing to change the image you've built with your delusional posts about cold fusion. Never in all my years on FR have I seen such a braggart who can't back it up with any quality in his posts. The only FReeper who makes you look normal by comparison is Kevmo.

While I find it worthwhile to shoot down your nonsense, it's not worthwhile to spend much time doing it, or to trust your bad judgment and follow your links to Ecat blogs, or other compilations of cold fusion fan boy material.

60 posted on 04/30/2012 5:14:37 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Toddsterpatriot

You’re twisting what I said, which was, “It does violate known properties of nuclear physics. That’s partly why Pons and Fleishmann were “laughed off the stage” in 1989. Plus, the big money is in hot fusion. That doesn’t make it a fraud, hoax, or wrong.”

My comment had nothing to do with fusing D, unless you’re a skeptic with the goal of causing mischief. I don’t have time for that. Bye


61 posted on 04/30/2012 5:23:55 PM PDT by Captain Steve
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To: Captain Steve
What “we” do know is that different combinations of Hydrogen and Nickel are yielding large amounts of energy, transmutation into Copper

If hydrogen could fuse with nickel, why doesn't this reaction take place in the Sun?

62 posted on 04/30/2012 5:55:30 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Captain Steve
“It does violate known properties of nuclear physics. That’s partly why Pons and Fleishmann were “laughed off the stage” in 1989.

The fusion of D + D yielding energy does not violate any laws of physics. Fusing elements heavier than iron to yield energy does, at least the last time I checked.

63 posted on 04/30/2012 5:59:55 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Toddsterpatriot

Looks like I called it right. You like to misquote/misinterpret and cause mischief. The “it” and what “violates known laws of nuclear physics” that I referred to in my comment was/is LENR/Cold Fusion, not Deuterium.

Like I said, I don’t have time or interest for your games. Bye


64 posted on 04/30/2012 6:56:43 PM PDT by Captain Steve
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To: Toddsterpatriot

Because our sun is to small and cold. Fusion of elements heavier than Iron only occur in supernovas (and possibly E-Cat processes).


65 posted on 04/30/2012 6:59:13 PM PDT by Captain Steve
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To: Captain Steve

Sure, an Ecat that can barely boil a pot of tea after being hooked up to electrical mains is equivalent to a supernova.


66 posted on 04/30/2012 7:04:37 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Captain Steve

That’s funny! Run away.


67 posted on 04/30/2012 7:05:02 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Captain Steve
Fusion of elements heavier than Iron only occur in supernovas

That's because it's exothermic.

68 posted on 04/30/2012 7:06:06 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Toddsterpatriot
That's because it's exothermic endothermic.

Laughing too hard. Still.

69 posted on 04/30/2012 7:14:21 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Agreed. That (new elements present) would be absolute proof of a LENR. As I said, we’ll soon have independent verification either way. And if it is LENR, the world just changed...


70 posted on 04/30/2012 8:21:41 PM PDT by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: Captain Steve

Several of us have been round & round with these hyper-sneering skeptics on FR. They don’t contribute much to the discussion.


71 posted on 04/30/2012 11:33:27 PM PDT by Kevmo (Judicaret spectator se ipso: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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To: Captain Steve
No offense intended, but you obviously haven't investigated this "new science" since you don't even know that very basic aspect. All the cold fusion/LENR/E-Cat systems are starting with powdered Nickel and Hydrogen and reporting some transmutation into Copper. Until you know more about it, you might want to consider refraining from saying what it is or is not. You obviously know a good bit about physics, so I think you'll find it worthwhile. ;))

I've actually been following the Rossi saga for quite a while, so I do know what the cold fusion claims are all about. I based what I said only on the text contained above, and made no assumptions that were not explicitly stated in that text. That "mud" described up there does not behave chemically like nickel; its behavior suggests to me that it may be powdered magnesium (but I do not know for sure).

Of course it violates the *known* properties of the Coulomb barrier. There are some other explanations as well, such as "widom-larsen." . Since no one knows yet, I can't tell you which it is, but as far as your physicist's "energy in the known universe" comment, someone should tell that to all the hot fusion scientists out there, because they could save a lot of money by NOT building billion dollar tokamaks. lol . . . . It happens in every star, so it clearly can happen. The question is, "at what minimum energy level."

I doubt, at this point, that there are "properties" of the Coulomb barrier waiting to be found. In any case, the nuclear fusion process that occurs in stars, and which engineers are attempting to contain within tokamak reactors, occurs strictly among small atoms such as hydrogen (one proton) and helium (two protons). This is documented to occur only in high energy (high temperature) environments. The larger the atom is, the more energy it takes to shove a proton past the Coulomb barrier--hence the comment that there isn't enough energy in the universe to shove a proton past the Coulomb energy barrier of nickel with its 28 protons. As for Widom-Larson, I wasn't able to find anything in the scientific literature about it. And what I found did not look scientific. I'll look for more on that later.

72 posted on 05/01/2012 2:31:44 AM PDT by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: Moonman62
"If it weren't for the constant cold fusion spam you and Kevmo place on FR, I'd have little to say about it. However, the accepted status of cold fusion is that it is a scam and not a recognized science. That's why the USPTO doesn't accept cold fusion patent applications.

Fortunately, the accepted status is changing, despite all you tokamak fanboys can do to keep it suppressed. I suspect that even the Patent Office will come around.

"You've done nothing to change that.

With you, of course not. I realize that NO information I might come up with would change your opinion. Which is why I don't bother (anymore). I made one attempt to get you to lay out what you considered acceptable proof, and all you could come up with as "acceptable" was a non-peer reviewed internal report from a government lab. And you were unable or unwilling to even say why that report was convincing.

"Your claims of winning awards, professional accomplishments, and other forms of self puffery do nothing to change the image you've built with your delusional posts about cold fusion".

LOL. One of my more recent inventions is gracing the cover of one of the more prestigious PEER REVIEWED journals in my field of endeavor next month.

It ain't puffery if it's true.

"Never in all my years on FR have I seen such a braggart who can't back it up with any quality in his posts.

Look in a mirror. The quality of my posts is at least 100X yours.

"The only FReeper who makes you look normal by comparison is Kevmo."

Thanks for the compliment.

"While I find it worthwhile to shoot down your nonsense, it's not worthwhile to spend much time doing it, or to trust your bad judgment and follow your links to Ecat blogs, or other compilations of cold fusion fan boy material.

IOW, you refuse to examine the evidence. Keep those fingers in your ears, old boy......then you'll never hear anything that displeases you.

73 posted on 05/01/2012 5:16:53 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog
LOL. One of my more recent inventions is gracing the cover of one of the more prestigious PEER REVIEWED journals in my field of endeavor next month.

Without proof, it's just more "Warthog says."

You and Kevmo do more to expose cold fusion for the fraud it is than I could ever hope to do.

74 posted on 05/01/2012 6:43:30 AM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Wonder Warthog

Let’s get some independent chemistry labs doing this in their test tubes, beakers, or flasks. When real science comes across a new intriguing phenomenon, it isn’t left to redneck laboratories.


75 posted on 05/01/2012 10:28:37 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (To the devil with them and the high horses they rode in on.)
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To: Captain Steve

Seems really weird that an eCat can do something the sun can’t. Science is of course begging to know the reason why. You just don’t get effects on nuclei from things going on in the atoms’ electron clouds. The two are different worlds and the twain don’t meet (except that nuclei can sometimes grab electrons from inner orbitals resulting in spectacular X rays). How are nuclei built? Are they just little balls of nuclonium or something that can have its own hairy, nonspherical characteristic? Trying to solve eCat might shed a lot of light on that.


76 posted on 05/01/2012 10:34:54 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (To the devil with them and the high horses they rode in on.)
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To: Kevmo

My sympathy. It’s rather like “reasoning” with a 5 year old. I can only imagine it’s been like that for all scientists investigating revolutionary concepts. “You can’t do that.” “That’s impossible.” “That will never work.” They should tell that to Galileo, the Wright brothers, and Einstein. lol

Hopefully it will work out. If not, that will point in new directions.


77 posted on 05/01/2012 2:34:30 PM PDT by Captain Steve
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Seems really weird that an eCat can do something the sun can’t.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I agree. I’d say it’s right up there on the “weirdness scale” with superconduction, quantum uncertainty, and general relativity time dilation.


78 posted on 05/01/2012 2:51:45 PM PDT by Captain Steve
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To: Captain Steve
Yeah, like a 5 year old who actually understands some physics. Unlike you.

They should tell that to Galileo, the Wright brothers, and Einstein. lol

Or Lamarck, Lysenko and Velikovsky. LOL!

79 posted on 05/01/2012 2:56:07 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Toddsterpatriot
Or Lamarck, Lysenko and Velikovsky. LOL!

Yes, LOL!

80 posted on 05/01/2012 3:02:04 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Toddsterpatriot

That’s because it’s exothermic endothermic.

Laughing too hard. Still.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Seems like you’re laughing about making a fool of yourself. Do you know anything about this or just love playing games? Did you do the math? Or do you just like to heckle posters?

Ni62 has the same binding energy as Fe. So everything “lighter” (such as Ni58) is theoretically usable for exothermic fusion reactions.

My calculation for Ni58 + H to Cu59 results in a mass defect (excess mass) of .003784879 and is therefor exothermic.


81 posted on 05/01/2012 3:52:56 PM PDT by Captain Steve
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To: Moonman62
"You and Kevmo do more to expose cold fusion for the fraud it is than I could ever hope to do."

If true, then why are you on every thread, working your little heart out to promulgate the "holy position of the tokamak fanboys"?

But I learned an interesting thing yesterday. I was doing a search on cold fusion, specifically to get the latest info on George Miley and his results, when I happened to hit another discussion forum with a CF thread. The major "anti" poster (calling himself "johndoe") used EXACTLY the same tactics, talking points, and attitude that you have here. So either that was you under another name, or you guys work from a script. I wonder who wrote the script.

82 posted on 05/02/2012 4:54:56 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: HiTech RedNeck
"Let’s get some independent chemistry labs doing this in their test tubes, beakers, or flasks. When real science comes across a new intriguing phenomenon, it isn’t left to redneck laboratories."

How many more "independent chemistry labs" do you want to work on it?? Storm's book lists FOUR THOUSAND research papers related to various aspects of cold fusion from labs all over the world. Even if Sturgeon's Law applies, that is still four hundred legitimate confirmations.

83 posted on 05/02/2012 4:57:13 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog

I’ll add paranoid to your long list of character traits, like conspiracy theorist, braggart, prevaricator, conceited, and gullible.


84 posted on 05/02/2012 5:26:48 AM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Wonder Warthog
Storm's book lists FOUR THOUSAND research papers related to various aspects of cold fusion from labs all over the world. Even if Sturgeon's Law applies, that is still four hundred legitimate confirmations.

The applicable law in this case would be Barnum's.

85 posted on 05/02/2012 6:34:17 AM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Moonman62
"I’ll add paranoid to your long list of character traits, like conspiracy theorist, braggart, prevaricator, conceited, and gullible."

Yup. Tactics identical to "johndoe". Same script. The similarities are truly enlightening.

86 posted on 05/02/2012 8:01:59 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog

You got me. I’m part of a vast conspiracy against the gullible.


87 posted on 05/02/2012 9:55:26 AM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Wonder Warthog

When cold fusion is a graded, required laboratory exercise for graduate students in chemistry, let me know....


88 posted on 05/02/2012 10:48:06 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Away with them and the high horses they rode in on.)
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