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The Battle of Brunanburh -- The Great Debate
Wirral Learning Grid ^ | since 2004 | Prof Stephen Harding

Posted on 05/06/2012 8:18:14 PM PDT by SunkenCiv

By 937 A.D. 35 years after the initial settlement, Wirral may have been the site of a huge battle between the Anglo Saxons coming from the South and Midlands and a combined army of Viking raiders coming from Dublin and their Scottish allies coming mainly from Strathclyde. No-one is quite sure where this battle took place, although the majority of experts favour Wirral. The main reason is that the contemporary record of the Battle -- the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle describes the battle having taking place (around Brunanburh) -- which happens to be the old name for Bromborough...

The Chronicle also explains how some of the raiders escaped to Dublin from Dingesmere -- which has now been explained as the "mere" or "marr" (meaning wetland/ marshland) travellers coming by sea to the Viking Thing parliament at Thingwall... The contemporary (i.e. written at the same time as the battle took place) records are however quite clear and experts such as Nicholas Higham, Professor of History at the University of Manchester, the late John McNeill Dodgson who wrote the comprehensive series "Place Names of Cheshire", Dr. Paul Cavill, Research Fellow of the English Place Name Society, Dr. Jayne Carroll, Lecturer in English at the University of Leicester and Judith Jesch, Professor of Viking Studies at the University of Nottingham are all in little doubt that the battle took place "around Bromborough" ...the Icelandic Saga called Egil's Saga reports Vikings fighting on both sides -with Scots and with the English, which must have been very confusing.
The Battle of Brunanburh -- The Great Debate

(Excerpt) Read more at wirral-mbc.gov.uk ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: aethelstan; brunanburh; godsgravesglyphs; thevikings; unitedkingdom
"Bromborough is a contender for the site of an epic battle in the year 937, the Battle of Brunanburh, which confirmed England as an Anglo-Saxon kingdom." [ Wiki-Wackypedia: Bromborough ]

File:Merseyside UK location map.svg

1 posted on 05/06/2012 8:18:20 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
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Birthplace of Englishness found -- A group of academics believe they have found the battlefield where the concept of 'Englishness' was born.

The bloodbath at Brunanburh in 937 AD was fought by King Athelstan when he united the Anglo-Saxons for the first time to fight off a Viking invasion.

The research claims that the site of the battle mentioned in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle was on what is now a golf course in Bebington, Wirral.

It is thought the exact location has been a mystery for more than centuries.

Professor Stephen Harding, from Wirral, told BBC News the golf course would have been the scene of "absolute carnage".

The amateur historian added: "We believe it was probably the site of the Battle of Brunanburh which was one of the bloodiest of battles to have taken place in the British Isles."

The two place names referred to in The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle as being the sites of battles are Brunanburh and Dingesmere.

Brunanburh could have been Bromborough, in Wirral, although other locations in Scotland, Yorkshire, Northamptonshire and Lancashire have been suggested by historians.

But, until now, Dingesmere has never been located...

Prof Harding's research argues that 'Ding' refers to the Viking meeting place or 'Thing' at modern-day Thingwall, off the A551 in Wirral.

The Chronicle recounts how the English advanced and began pursuing the invaders up what is now the fairway of the par 4 11th hole at Brackenwood Road golf course.

The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle records: "Never yet on this island has there been a greater slaughter.

"When it was over Athelstan and his brother Edmund returned to Wessex, leaving behind corpses for the dark black-coated raven, horny-beaked, to enjoy."

Prof Harding runs the National Centre for Molecular Hydrodynamics in Nottingham.
Birthplace of Englishness found Birthplace of Englishness found
The golf course was the scene of "absolute carnage" in 937

2 posted on 05/06/2012 8:20:07 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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3 posted on 05/06/2012 8:20:07 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

All these stories/links are so poorly written, I would have thought that it was done by a drunken Indian from the Khyber Pass, not British historians.

What casualties? What next defeat? What happened after the battle? Where the hell is the context?

Damned, even the British can’t write English properly. We are doomed.


4 posted on 05/06/2012 8:31:42 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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OTOH:
Battle of Brunanburgh
CBebenezer
...On the outskirts of Burnley, possible battle-sites have been suggested. Local folklore tells of a Great Battle which was fought in ancient times in the hills above Burnley with tales of the River Brun flowing red with blood. There has also been tales of farmers ploughing up various pieces of weaponry said to date from this Great Battle. Whilst these may be "stories and folklore", history dictates that there is always an element of truth in there somewhere.

One traditional story states that the Hill of Shelfield (north of Burnley) was supposedly the site of a battle in Saxon times. Nearby is a large mound which is either a glacial deposit or according to the story, it is the Knaves Hill or mound beneath which the warriors killed in the Battle were buried. One account states that Shelfield Hill was once the site of an ancient camp. The site is now known as Walton Spire which was erected in Victorian times on top of a stone marker of unknown date.
"The same area was historically believed to be the likely location in 937 of the Battle of Brunanburh, one of the most important, but little known, battles in British history." [ Wiki-Wackypedia: Burnley ]


File:Burnley Pano.jpg
5 posted on 05/06/2012 8:32:08 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Broomridge / Routhinlynn
http://www.brunanburh.org.uk/location/broomridge

-and, for those who don’t want any evidence at all, there’s this, from the wrong side of the island-

Where was the Battle of Brunanburh ? in Lincolnshire !
Rod Collins
http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/where-was-the-battle-of-brunanburh-in-lincolnshire

-here’s the poem-

The Battle of Brunanburh
http://www.dot-domesday.me.uk/brunanburh.htm

There’s a YouTube (at least one) of someone reading it in Old English.


6 posted on 05/06/2012 8:37:55 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
G'night all.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


7 posted on 05/06/2012 8:38:24 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

They were fighting over a golf course?

/sarc


8 posted on 05/06/2012 8:44:56 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: SunkenCiv

Egil had such a thick skull I’m surprised anyone paid any attention to his sagas...


9 posted on 05/06/2012 8:53:39 PM PDT by null and void (Day 1202 of our ObamaVacation from reality [and what dark chill/is gathering still/before the storm])
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To: GeronL

Nope, tee times


10 posted on 05/06/2012 9:21:05 PM PDT by STD ([You must help] people in the communityÂ…feel so frustrated, so defeated, so lost, so futureless)
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To: SunkenCiv

Only in the myopic world of academia can this minor dispute about the location of a battle be called “The Great Debate.”


11 posted on 05/07/2012 6:59:59 AM PDT by wildbill (You're just jealous because the Voices talk only to me.)
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper; SunkenCiv
The battle is significant because it confirmed Athelstan's union of the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms under one rule. Had the battle been lost, Northumbria and possibly other territories would have regained independence. The article somewhat overstates the significance, because his empire fell apart after his death and had to be put back together under his successor.

Athelstan is, however, considered the first King of a united England.

12 posted on 05/07/2012 5:19:02 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: SunkenCiv
The Chronicle recounts how the English advanced and began pursuing the invaders up what is now the fairway of the par 4 11th hole at Brackenwood Road golf course.

"Play through? Play through? I'll show you play through, ye bahstad! Have at ye!"

13 posted on 05/07/2012 5:24:38 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: GeronL; wildbill; Billthedrill

This is a league game. This determines who enters the next round-robin, am I wrong?


14 posted on 05/07/2012 7:00:20 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: STD

Tea, not tee.


15 posted on 05/07/2012 7:00:31 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: null and void

May be, but he flies with a dove, and everyone else loves the ones they’re with.


16 posted on 05/07/2012 7:01:48 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

With sudden death over time?


17 posted on 05/07/2012 8:10:08 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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